samca

The Bond for me is a problem, even if It is 24 or 20 k. Why I have to pay for a type rating that I have?, It is not fair. They are taking my freedom. I think aviation is gonna change in the coming years and what happen if a good oportunity open in Europe even in my country. I'm free and I decide what to do with my life not they.

Just another question. Is It posible to bid for 5 days consecutive days off?, what are doing people for going to see their families?

Cheers

Kefuddle

Yup, just check my contract. $24K and not $50K as I previously guessed at.

BritishGuy

Not to take a dig at anyone on this forum but it's NOT a case of going from bottom to top of the list in 2.5-3 years. Heck, we've almost just about completed 1 year, so how people are suggesting this is beyond me. As everyone knows in this industry, projections are exactly that, projections. we don't even have any firm data to say that you'll move up the list that fast. You will move up the list as a new joiner/current pilot, but to pacify people with a 2-4 year figure is just plain wrong and incorrect.

And lets face it, even if you move up the list 30% and you're new, you're still not worth much as it's only 10-15% of the top of the list that REALLY get what they want. Anybody below that figure 'settle' for what they bid for. So if you 'settle' - please don't say "you got what you wanted" because you see a 'R' (for requested) on your schedule, you merely got what you're worth. That is PBS in a nutshell.

Again, not saying it's good or bad (and not taking a dig at anyone), just saying how it is.

High Energy

A recent quote from another thread in this forum. Read into it what you like;

A Dutch reporter with good connections in the Middle East reports that at least two aircraft were shot at near Baghdad Airport by IS troops.
Likely while landing. One was a Iraqi Airways B747-400. The aircraft departed Malaysia and was on approach for Baghad airport when it was hit 5 times. Because the fuel tanks were not full the tanks did not exploded. Was the aircraft hit at departure it could be much worse.
The Boeing 747-400 was grounded at Baghdad since the incident at August 24.

The other shooting was also an Iraqi Airways aircraft on August 26.

According a former Iraqi Airways pilot she spoke to, shootings happen weekly.

Anyone can confirm this? Iraqi government does not want to make this public. They only communicate about successes in the battle against IS.
Do we have to wait for another aircraft to crash before something is done?

CBS reports IS has MANPADS
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/isis-wit...-with-manpads/

Vortex Thing

Samca

If you can't do the time then don't do the crime. If the bond is an issue to you. Then don't come! The firm placed the bond and everyone here signed it. If you think that having to commit yourself for 3 yrs is too onerous then you are of course welcome to not apply!

As for going to see their families. It is not a commuting contract. It is a permanent move your family come here or you deal with the consequences. If you want a commuting contract then KAL, THY, many in Africa and many in China will oblidge you with 20/10 or 6wks/2 wks etc.

You can't have your cake and eat it. If you want this job then you need to commit hook, line and sinker to the firm. Move your family and stop worrying about the commute. If your life in your home country is so marvellous that your family will not/cannot leave then why are you looking at us?

If you are already not happy now before you have even interviewed and been offered then by all means don't waste your time. There are enough people who are unhappy here and you have a choice.

We hope you make the right choice for you but please don't base it on what you want this to be. Base it on what it is which I think many of my colleagues have been pretty open about in this forum. There should be no surprises to you about life in Dubai or FDB if you have read this whole thread.

Vortex Thing

So would it be fair to say that we are all married to 6ft blondes, with pneumatic inflate on demand breasts, who think we are their master and commander and whose basic needs consist of selcting suitable lingerie from thier previous jobs as Victoria's Secret models and bringing their friends over for Hugh Heffner style pool parties.

Then I assume that you drive to work from your 10,000 sq ft mansion in Emirates Hills in your special edition Aston Martin Vanquish. Park in your personal parking space, rev up your 565bhp engine until your personal assistants and fluffers come to escort you through the airport in Catch me if you Can style and then strap into our seat fly the perfect day out and comeback to tea and medals.

Very few people get what they want in life! However you can get from the bottom (where we all start in seniority) to the top 15% in 3 yrs and as a current joiner it is not unfair to say 4yrs max. The chances are that you will however promote (this again is a choice you can keep the roster in the RHS and some are choosing to do just that!)

No one is making promises about upgrade but the seniority is pretty much assured the difference between the roster of 2011 joiners and 2013 joiners should show you that.

There are very few airlines in the world where you can get rosters like we have at the top end of our seniority list here.

The data to back up my assertion is try and find for me more than 20 FOs who have served more than 3yrs who have not faltered in the upgrade process, or chosen not to upgrade to keep a good roster. So myself and others asserting 4yrs for a new joiner is in keeping percentage wise with the fact that we have 10 more planes that we had in 2011 and 200 more pilots. In the last 2 months FOs with 18 months service have been on their upgrade courses.

Them's pretty good odds in my book. Just saying!

NinER fIveR

We have less than 600 pilots now, but we should be adding in the region of 200 new pilots annually for the foreseeable future (based on crewing requirements for 1 aircraft delivery per month).

So it's really simple: you join as an FO today and in 3 years time you are practically guaranteed to be in the top half of seniority without even accounting for your seat seniority due to upgrades ahead of you. The longer you wait to join though, the more time it will take to improve your seniority.

As for who gets to enjoy their roster, I would say that depends on your definition. If your definition of enjoying your roster is to pick and choose each and every flight and day off on the exact days you want them, then that is reserved to the guys in the top 5 percent, and it will quite honestly never happen for you as a new joiner going forward. It's also a matter of attitude. I have flown with senior guys who wouldn't stop whining about getting 1 "assigned" flight that they hadn't requested out of 10!! But if you can enjoy getting one of your preferences (maybe no. 5 or 6) almost all the time, while avoiding war zones and deep nights, and getting more than half of your requested time off exactly when you want it, then being in the top ⅔ of seniority is sufficient.

Flyboy_SG

Could someone post the worst FO roster which is possible at FZ ? Say the First month after release.

samca

Vortex,

I have no problem in stay in a job for 3,5,7 even 10 years but the thing here is in what conditions?,

I have no children just wife and she is happy with moving to Dubai and live there, in fact we are living farther now. I don't need to go home very month but I want to go each 3 months is It for that why I need to now if I can bid for 5 consecutive days off when I need It. It is normal don't think?, prefer a conmuting but if is not possible at least I would like to have chance of bidding 5 days off in my Schedule. That what I'm asking here nothing else.

It doesn't matters to me if your de the rest of the pilots signed a Bond. It is not fair for a Type rated pilot. Is It like someone say that take drugs becouse his friends do It. So the Bond is not fair for a type rated guy, of course we are free of take It or leave It, you and many others take It and I don't know what I'm going to do. I think if you sign a Bond you have to be completly sure you are going to be happy in a place. And that is what I'm trying to discover here in this thread if you don't mind of course.

Of course if I would have no job I will accept It like is It but for the moment I have a Job and I can analize everything before to decide.

what-to-do

samca,

No, you can't bid for 5 days off in a row. The maximum is 4, and even then, it's not guaranteed that you would get them.

The bond for a type rated person is to cover the cost of converting your license and your 737 rating to a GCAA one. This requires a number of sims before completing your LST.

FZ invests a fair amount of money bringing you to Dubai and therefore they slap a $24,000 bond on type rated joiners. It is a bit steep, but thats the cost.

FZ expect you to at least complete your initial contract of 3 years, by which point there is no bond. Furthermore, under UAE law, you are entitled to an end of service benefit when you leave. This kicks in after 2 years. If you decide to leave FZ after 2 years, your end of service benefit should pay the remainder of your bond.

We have 600 pilots and growing. Many of us are rated and have had no issue paying this fee. Take it or leave it is the only advice I can give. This is the Middle East and it's their train set to do with as they like.

jetstreem

Samca,

I agree with what-to-do. This is the Middle East, and I think the bond should be the least of your worries. There are lots of things that are simply 'this is the deal; take it or leave it'. There's no negotiation on our part, and no escaping the consequences.

Whether or not it's 'fair' doesn't come into it. (Personally, I probably agree with you! I don't think it is!) But that's the terms that they set out, and there's no getting round it.

One or two people have not liked it and literally run away, but most people stick it out for a few years at least. If you decide to run, then you can forget getting your logbook signed by the company of course!

My advice would be to come out here and visit. Try and see if you can picture yourself and your wife living here. That's usually the thing that breaks people. If you don't like it, then with a 737 rating, there should be plenty of other options around the world for you.

Oh, and we get 6 weeks leave per year, assigned a year in advance. So you can position these through the year to ensure you get home every 2 months. Getting blocks of days off through bidding, as a new joiner, is nearly impossible.

Hope that helps.

samca

jetstream and what to do

Thank you for your reply. It is good to know that you can bid for 4 consecutive days off and change with other pilots for taking more days. Also good alternative if you have 45 days per year because you can take in 15 days block. So it is not bad. Let see what happen, first I have to pass the assessment, it is not easy and then to decide.

cheers

BritishGuy

You can bid for whatever you like (multiple 4 days off back to back), but you WILL NOT get it. Only the top percentile will ever get that.

And also you cannot bid for 15 days off. You can only bid for chunks of 7 days off at a time. But I know what you mean.

You don't really have much to decide about right now. You only have a decision to make once you have an offer. But being informed is always wise.

samca

Totally agree with you British guy. Step by step. Thank you

yuck

@ what-to-do

stockholm syndrome???

Vortex Thing

Samca,

Life isn't fair. If you want to go home once every three months then you do have 42 days annual leave at your disposal for this very thing.

You state you have no children so you are not concerned about travelling in school holidays this makes your life very easy. You simpy bid for 14 days off from your leave go home and fill your boots!

We have many US collegaues here who book a month off to go home as they have to travel so much further, we have guys here from South America who do very similar. Anyone coming from Europe really has no issue as it is very easy to get home if they do not travel in the school holidays.

Jetstream and British Guy make some good points. You will never get 4 days off from the bottom of the seniority list, plan on 2!

The best point however is coming here. To be honest Dubai is exactly what you think it is. If you come for interview and don't think wow OMG I hope I get this job as I can live like this for 20+ yrs or at least yep I can do 5-10yrs to develop my career and move on then don't join. If you are joining for the money as a junior FO trust me you will be dissapointed as the cost of living is now high enough that you will break even or live to such a low standard that you will question being here and that is assuming you have no debt at all! (Yes granted without children it is a lot cheaper but do you plan to never have children?)

Personally we love Dubai and hope to not move untill retirement. I do not understand why people want to live in UK when they can live here. But it isnt for everyone and were not all from the UK! But there is a reason that the largest proportion of non subcontinent expats are from UK.

You can only choose from what is on the table so get offered the job first and put all your other options on the table and then pick wha is right for you. I would suggest however if you are already questioning committing a small period of time such as 3yrs then I'm not sure if it is for you. EK now has a 5 yr bond and I think that is a good thing for many reasons ( but that is for another thread)

BritishGuy

Or plan on one day off if you're lucky, like I got in November. Approximately 50% Captain seniority with me. Couldn't manage more than 1 day off after Annual Leave because of 'Operational Reasons'.

It ain't all bad, but be VERY REALISTIC in what you expect from this place.

pole shift

A small birdie from the GCAA and even further up, 'suggested' to the management that too many people, get too many days off, and go away too much, taking with them too much money.
Some people are about to be hit by a sandstorm

what-to-do

Yuck,

Please tell me you didn't lie awake all night trying to come up with that?

Don't confuse an honest post about the reality of life here at FZ and the ME with someone prepared to defend it.

737 northener

Apart from the bond, does anyone know if theres any restrictions on moving from Fly Dubai to Emirates?

I understand there are restrictions on moving from Emirates to the likes of Etihad but I'm not sure what they are.

As a background, I already operate the 737 but I want to make sure that I have options in the future