QR - Time to command
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tater Salad
Age: 58
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QR - Time to command
Hi folks,
Qr has just changed their upgrade plan out of the blue. Formerly it used to be three years after your first final line check and if no "bad" simulators and 5000hrs on commercial jet you would be selected for an interview which takes place approx. 3-6 months later. Then you would have to wait a month for the result of the interview and then according to simulator and trainer availability ( upgraders have the lowest priority) you would start your training sim and line training. Furthermore there was an option if you have more than 6000hrs experience and more than 1 year on the 330 fleet you could get the upgrade directly on the 330.
After doing this now for 6 months and very good experience with the upgraders ( knowledge of the aircraft, Sop, route structure ) Qr has decided to change this procedure out of the blue. Now after the interview
the applicant has to wait at least 6 months to start the training which will be on the 320.
NO MORE UPGRADE ON 330 !!!!!!
Keeping in mind that we only have a limited amount of people who fulfill the requirements so far ( one upgrade course app. 10 people every half a year) you can expect that time to start training soon will reach 12 months and longer which will bring time to command to 5 or six years and this is a fact. The training department seems to be quite happy with that since they tell newjoiners 3 years. Chiefpilots tell applicants who fulfill the requirements " six months more or less don't matter, they will pass in no time , just be patient.
RGDS.
G.L>
Qr has just changed their upgrade plan out of the blue. Formerly it used to be three years after your first final line check and if no "bad" simulators and 5000hrs on commercial jet you would be selected for an interview which takes place approx. 3-6 months later. Then you would have to wait a month for the result of the interview and then according to simulator and trainer availability ( upgraders have the lowest priority) you would start your training sim and line training. Furthermore there was an option if you have more than 6000hrs experience and more than 1 year on the 330 fleet you could get the upgrade directly on the 330.
After doing this now for 6 months and very good experience with the upgraders ( knowledge of the aircraft, Sop, route structure ) Qr has decided to change this procedure out of the blue. Now after the interview
the applicant has to wait at least 6 months to start the training which will be on the 320.
NO MORE UPGRADE ON 330 !!!!!!
Keeping in mind that we only have a limited amount of people who fulfill the requirements so far ( one upgrade course app. 10 people every half a year) you can expect that time to start training soon will reach 12 months and longer which will bring time to command to 5 or six years and this is a fact. The training department seems to be quite happy with that since they tell newjoiners 3 years. Chiefpilots tell applicants who fulfill the requirements " six months more or less don't matter, they will pass in no time , just be patient.
RGDS.
G.L>
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dohacity
Posts: 372
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GL,
Whats the big deal?
Most major airlines wont even give you an upgrade within the first 10 years or so!
Even if what you are saying is true ( and for all I know it is not) you could theoretically still be upgraded within 4 years time. This is theory. If you can do some math just calculate the number of FOs ahead of you and then divide this by a mathematical optimal nr of upgrades of 60/year! That gives you the ideal time span(+/- 6 years if you join now). But we can only handle 40 actual upgrades/year right now so that brings you to 8 years, regardless whether they have changed the rules or not!
And yes, it will be on the A320. Again, so what? I am sure it would stroke your ego to be upgraded on the A330 but you know as well as I do that that is NOT a normal way of doing things. For one thing, it is not fair to all the skippers waiting to be transferred from 320 and 300. Only companys without a narrow body fleet will do upgrades on a widebody.
That 6000 vs 5000 hr rule was a very dodgy rule anyway, designed by the CPT in an attemt to fool the CEO into approving this rule. He should have just left the hour issue aside and juts pushed the possibility of upgrading on all fleets as soon as you pass the requirements. After all, an upgrade is an upgrade and 1000hrs more does NOT make you a better upgrade candidate!
But no, he had to play a game again! And by doing so, he bypassed several senior Qatari FOs who did not have the 6000 hrs. And yes....the whole thing became political! Not a good thing overhere!
So even if what you are claiming is true, it is the only normal way to do things anyway!The A330 is NOT a good fleet to have your initial command experience on and everybody knows it!
And yes, they CAN and they WILL change the rules as they like it! Thats the game all over the middle east!
So wake up and do your own thinking, stay alert and design a good personal plan for the future. That way you will stay clear of dissapointments!
Whats the big deal?
Most major airlines wont even give you an upgrade within the first 10 years or so!
Even if what you are saying is true ( and for all I know it is not) you could theoretically still be upgraded within 4 years time. This is theory. If you can do some math just calculate the number of FOs ahead of you and then divide this by a mathematical optimal nr of upgrades of 60/year! That gives you the ideal time span(+/- 6 years if you join now). But we can only handle 40 actual upgrades/year right now so that brings you to 8 years, regardless whether they have changed the rules or not!
And yes, it will be on the A320. Again, so what? I am sure it would stroke your ego to be upgraded on the A330 but you know as well as I do that that is NOT a normal way of doing things. For one thing, it is not fair to all the skippers waiting to be transferred from 320 and 300. Only companys without a narrow body fleet will do upgrades on a widebody.
That 6000 vs 5000 hr rule was a very dodgy rule anyway, designed by the CPT in an attemt to fool the CEO into approving this rule. He should have just left the hour issue aside and juts pushed the possibility of upgrading on all fleets as soon as you pass the requirements. After all, an upgrade is an upgrade and 1000hrs more does NOT make you a better upgrade candidate!
But no, he had to play a game again! And by doing so, he bypassed several senior Qatari FOs who did not have the 6000 hrs. And yes....the whole thing became political! Not a good thing overhere!
So even if what you are claiming is true, it is the only normal way to do things anyway!The A330 is NOT a good fleet to have your initial command experience on and everybody knows it!
And yes, they CAN and they WILL change the rules as they like it! Thats the game all over the middle east!
So wake up and do your own thinking, stay alert and design a good personal plan for the future. That way you will stay clear of dissapointments!
attract pilots......from all over the world.....
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tater Salad
Age: 58
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear Qatari 515 and Ironbut
unfortunately you are right that they will change the rules whenever it pleases and yes it would be very good for my ego to get an upgrade on the big bus but additionally I have to say that first officers with 10000 hrs experience are the much better commanders than 6000 hr 737 drivers that aren't even able to build a proper english sentence.
You reflected on the poor guys that are still on the 320 and 300 A/C after sacrificing 18 months on these ( but of course joined without type ) , whereas it is absolutely fair to have first officers flying for 5 years in the right hand seat although they fulfill every requirement that was put up within the last years.
Fleet transfer from 320 and 300 was very fast within the last 3 years but upgrades where zip- so far to the fairness topic- we are used to that and don't expect any changes there.
Regarding to the fact that we are still attracting pilots from all over the world I would like to say that this is very understandable if you consider the type of pilots we screen. No big airline experience ,no proper R/T, no flying skills (with some rare exceptions that are highly welcome here)from all the third world countries, guys that would have never had the chance to fly a modern fly by wire A/C anywhere else in a "normal" environment.
Three crashes during screening on a normal approach (2 engines, 18kts x-wind) - You didn't do very well but you passed, welcome.
Time to command 10 years in a developing airline makes me laugh hearty. Obviously you never looked around and realized that emerging markets are naturally related to shorter time to command.
RGDS
G.L.
unfortunately you are right that they will change the rules whenever it pleases and yes it would be very good for my ego to get an upgrade on the big bus but additionally I have to say that first officers with 10000 hrs experience are the much better commanders than 6000 hr 737 drivers that aren't even able to build a proper english sentence.
You reflected on the poor guys that are still on the 320 and 300 A/C after sacrificing 18 months on these ( but of course joined without type ) , whereas it is absolutely fair to have first officers flying for 5 years in the right hand seat although they fulfill every requirement that was put up within the last years.
Fleet transfer from 320 and 300 was very fast within the last 3 years but upgrades where zip- so far to the fairness topic- we are used to that and don't expect any changes there.
Regarding to the fact that we are still attracting pilots from all over the world I would like to say that this is very understandable if you consider the type of pilots we screen. No big airline experience ,no proper R/T, no flying skills (with some rare exceptions that are highly welcome here)from all the third world countries, guys that would have never had the chance to fly a modern fly by wire A/C anywhere else in a "normal" environment.
Three crashes during screening on a normal approach (2 engines, 18kts x-wind) - You didn't do very well but you passed, welcome.
Time to command 10 years in a developing airline makes me laugh hearty. Obviously you never looked around and realized that emerging markets are naturally related to shorter time to command.
RGDS
G.L.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dohacity
Posts: 372
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GL,
we where not talking about 10000hrs FOs, the difference was the s5000 vs 6000Hrs rule which discriminates. I agree with you, put a real limit there of lets say 3 years on type and 5000hrs or 8000hrs TT. Than I might agree with you.
10 years still is the industrys average my friend. Check the US majors, the EU majors and the asian majors. All of them have between 8 and 15 years to go for command.
And the A320 is STILL a better aircraft for your upgrade anyway!
If your ego is hurt because of that or you can not accept this, maybe you are not ready for your command anyway!
I will not go deeper into the problematics of the current selection process and most of what you are saying is right. But thats a different topic.
Fact to the matter is that if you want a longterm stable company, you have to set clear rules. And worldwide it has been agreed that the following is the normal transition in your career.
FO short haul - FO long haul - capt short haul - capt long haul
Regarding bending the rules. Since I have been here the most important rules have been bent several times, including rules for upgrades and promotions.
And I have been here VERY long!
You can either get frustrated by it or you accept it and accept them as long as you can! I choose the last option because the firts one will kill you!
IN QR you are on your own mate, nobody will help you no matter how many extras you have been doing for the company before you. Unless you become CP yourself, you have to obey the rules!
we where not talking about 10000hrs FOs, the difference was the s5000 vs 6000Hrs rule which discriminates. I agree with you, put a real limit there of lets say 3 years on type and 5000hrs or 8000hrs TT. Than I might agree with you.
10 years still is the industrys average my friend. Check the US majors, the EU majors and the asian majors. All of them have between 8 and 15 years to go for command.
And the A320 is STILL a better aircraft for your upgrade anyway!
If your ego is hurt because of that or you can not accept this, maybe you are not ready for your command anyway!
I will not go deeper into the problematics of the current selection process and most of what you are saying is right. But thats a different topic.
Fact to the matter is that if you want a longterm stable company, you have to set clear rules. And worldwide it has been agreed that the following is the normal transition in your career.
FO short haul - FO long haul - capt short haul - capt long haul
Regarding bending the rules. Since I have been here the most important rules have been bent several times, including rules for upgrades and promotions.
And I have been here VERY long!
You can either get frustrated by it or you accept it and accept them as long as you can! I choose the last option because the firts one will kill you!
IN QR you are on your own mate, nobody will help you no matter how many extras you have been doing for the company before you. Unless you become CP yourself, you have to obey the rules!
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Far Side
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Question for both of you:
Do you guys really compare flag carriers from the west and the far east as equals to this airline???
I never have and cannot imagine ever.
This is true, you should always have an active exit plan.
Do you guys really compare flag carriers from the west and the far east as equals to this airline???
I never have and cannot imagine ever.
stay alert and design a good personal plan for the future
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dohacity
Posts: 372
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HI B.S.
you might or might not have noticed that I like to refer to the ideal world...
These are only references and I do believe that the ideal world is the model we should be using overhere.
However,that being said, we are indeed still a far cry of.
But hey, if we would just depict here the way things are for real, it would get tooooo depressing!
Hence my references...
you might or might not have noticed that I like to refer to the ideal world...
These are only references and I do believe that the ideal world is the model we should be using overhere.
However,that being said, we are indeed still a far cry of.
But hey, if we would just depict here the way things are for real, it would get tooooo depressing!
Hence my references...
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Far Side
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes QR515, you are exactly correct, the IDEAL WORLD does not exist. But there are many very close approximations.
It is true also that ALL PILOTS (including me) whine about this or that. What is important is that the whining is always kept truthful, relative and rational. I think we all mostly do a fairly honest job in that regard.
Point to make: The most readily identifiable difference that separates joke airlines from serious players is DEC. Very few respectable western or far eastern flag carriers uses DEC as a recruiting tool unless forced upon them by external legal/government pressure. Name some?
SIA..... yep, they are ruthless
Korean..... Insurer pressure
Cant think of any others???
DEC is an avoidable, negative for team building, loyalty and CRM policy. Most airlines that use it do so because they are forced to, some airlines use it because they just dont give a damn about the career plans of their junior staff. Here it is used just to get Bums On Seats. Ooops... Was that a Freudian Slip?
At the end of the day for us guys at the coal face; our plans for a better future are always more fruitful than dreams of a better future. What seems two steps back may just be 5 steps ahead in the long run. Just do it.
It is true also that ALL PILOTS (including me) whine about this or that. What is important is that the whining is always kept truthful, relative and rational. I think we all mostly do a fairly honest job in that regard.
Point to make: The most readily identifiable difference that separates joke airlines from serious players is DEC. Very few respectable western or far eastern flag carriers uses DEC as a recruiting tool unless forced upon them by external legal/government pressure. Name some?
SIA..... yep, they are ruthless
Korean..... Insurer pressure
Cant think of any others???
DEC is an avoidable, negative for team building, loyalty and CRM policy. Most airlines that use it do so because they are forced to, some airlines use it because they just dont give a damn about the career plans of their junior staff. Here it is used just to get Bums On Seats. Ooops... Was that a Freudian Slip?
At the end of the day for us guys at the coal face; our plans for a better future are always more fruitful than dreams of a better future. What seems two steps back may just be 5 steps ahead in the long run. Just do it.
Last edited by Black Stain; 11th Sep 2007 at 15:49. Reason: gramar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Qatari B777 Fleet
I have noticed vacancies in the website for this equipment.Care to shed some light,forumners?
1)When is the expected delivery of these B777s?
2)Since we are discussing hot on this 'upgrading' topic,what are the potentials@plans for upgrades on this fleet for newcomers?
Appreciate infos(@rumours
)
Thanks.
1)When is the expected delivery of these B777s?
2)Since we are discussing hot on this 'upgrading' topic,what are the potentials@plans for upgrades on this fleet for newcomers?
Appreciate infos(@rumours
)Thanks.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tater Salad
Age: 58
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear Gentlemen,
B.S. , wonderful and very well put reply- couldn't agree more with what you are saying.
777's are coming in from November on and there is still a lot of fighting over positions on the fleet. CPT tries to get his son into the 777CP's seat but seems to face some resistance by the other brownnosed vasalles that are hyperventilating about a management job.
Upgrade problem in QR is related to all the fleets 777 will not be an exception.QR rather gives people another rating than utilizing experience on type ( it always comes with another bond) and forces drivers to stay if they don't want to jumpship and leave without paying.
As we are talking about suitability for a position I would like to draw your attention to some of the "older" posts and threads of Black Stain, Oryx Bollocks and A 300 Man ( these guys are very trustworthy and more active on the Forum than me).
Short reply to Qatari 515, what about the F/O's that have previous command experience and have about 7to ten years 320 experience,according to your comment they would be better off with a 320 command as well
.
RGDS
G.L.
B.S. , wonderful and very well put reply- couldn't agree more with what you are saying.
777's are coming in from November on and there is still a lot of fighting over positions on the fleet. CPT tries to get his son into the 777CP's seat but seems to face some resistance by the other brownnosed vasalles that are hyperventilating about a management job.
Upgrade problem in QR is related to all the fleets 777 will not be an exception.QR rather gives people another rating than utilizing experience on type ( it always comes with another bond) and forces drivers to stay if they don't want to jumpship and leave without paying.
As we are talking about suitability for a position I would like to draw your attention to some of the "older" posts and threads of Black Stain, Oryx Bollocks and A 300 Man ( these guys are very trustworthy and more active on the Forum than me).
Short reply to Qatari 515, what about the F/O's that have previous command experience and have about 7to ten years 320 experience,according to your comment they would be better off with a 320 command as well
.RGDS
G.L.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Qatari B777
Dear Goatliner@Qatar Airways(mountain goat or rather I say....),
So they don't intend to make full use of the experience on type huh?What a waste of resources.Sign up another bond?hmmm..
I guess it's better for me to stay put although the salary is peanuts.
Anyway,thanks for the insight.I'll give you a buzz when I fly through the Gulf.
Cheers
),So they don't intend to make full use of the experience on type huh?What a waste of resources.Sign up another bond?hmmm..
I guess it's better for me to stay put although the salary is peanuts.
Anyway,thanks for the insight.I'll give you a buzz when I fly through the Gulf.
Cheers
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dohacity
Posts: 372
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear GL,
first of all....there are not many of those guys around as far as I know. Maybe 1 or 2...
If they do exist, for sure they would be egible for that seat. But than again, what about an FO who has 5+ years in the company, 4 years on A330 but he only has 5000hrs TT. IS he less qualified for that seat than the guys you are talking about????
And I am sure everybody involved could come up with a reason why he/she deserves that left seat on the A330.
That is why this system will never work....
Oh, and if you feel the need to be angry at someone, go and knock on L.Ms door...he is the one one who blew the chance of having this to work...not me!
first of all....there are not many of those guys around as far as I know. Maybe 1 or 2...
If they do exist, for sure they would be egible for that seat. But than again, what about an FO who has 5+ years in the company, 4 years on A330 but he only has 5000hrs TT. IS he less qualified for that seat than the guys you are talking about????
And I am sure everybody involved could come up with a reason why he/she deserves that left seat on the A330.
That is why this system will never work....
Oh, and if you feel the need to be angry at someone, go and knock on L.Ms door...he is the one one who blew the chance of having this to work...not me!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tater Salad
Age: 58
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear Qatari 515
I am far from blaming you for anything that happens since I am very well aware of how the decission making process and the (mis-)planning happens in QR.
There is quite a bunch of F/O's with all kind of experience on short middle and longhaul experience in the company. If somebody collected all his experience by flying one year in the gulf and then transferring to long haul aircraft I would not value this as high as a profund experience on multiple A/C doing a lot of landings in ****ty weather. In this case I agree that the applicant should go back to 320's and gather the "missing" experience.
Whatever we are talking the situation will not improve as long as there is no procedure in place that would outlast the current or next management and as we know our boss loves to rotate the " decission"makers once they get comfortable in their seats and I agree greatly that there is a long way to go for QR and if you can't cope with it leave, but at the end of the day it pisses one off in regular timeframes.
RGDS
G.L.
I am far from blaming you for anything that happens since I am very well aware of how the decission making process and the (mis-)planning happens in QR.
There is quite a bunch of F/O's with all kind of experience on short middle and longhaul experience in the company. If somebody collected all his experience by flying one year in the gulf and then transferring to long haul aircraft I would not value this as high as a profund experience on multiple A/C doing a lot of landings in ****ty weather. In this case I agree that the applicant should go back to 320's and gather the "missing" experience.
Whatever we are talking the situation will not improve as long as there is no procedure in place that would outlast the current or next management and as we know our boss loves to rotate the " decission"makers once they get comfortable in their seats and I agree greatly that there is a long way to go for QR and if you can't cope with it leave, but at the end of the day it pisses one off in regular timeframes.
RGDS
G.L.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dohacity
Posts: 372
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My whole point was that 5000 vs. 6000hrs does not make ANY difference.
And that contrary to what you are saying, a lot of these so called high hour FOs with lots of experience have no clue whatsoever on how to fly an airplane. They do huge **** ups as well.
Watch out, I will not generalise and there are some really good ones as well, but there are equally skilled ones among the guys with 3000hrs.
All I wanted to say is that, due to the vast difference in backgrounds of pilots in this airline, the experience as written down in a logbook does not mean a thing!
You might be one of the good guys, with lots of experience flying in different climates on different airlines; you might be one of the guys who actually did not cheat in his fly book about previous experience...
But I can tell you, a lot of these high hour FO hotshots ( same goes for lots of the captains by the way) have hugely exaggerated their previous experience, have no clue what they are doing and think they are gods greatest gift to aviation. On top of that a lot of their experience was flying useless little planes somewhere on a domestic route.
So as a company it is a very big risk to take. And I can tell you that, apart from the Qatari FOs who went political by complaining to senior management, the insurance company had something to say in this too.
Unfortunately, for an insurance company, a DEC is still safer than a new upgrade, regardless of what happened before. But somebody else already took the risk by upgrading this DEC before, so therefore the responsibility issue is of the table. For an FO to upgrade to Capt. the issue is totally different and the company itself takes the responsibility.
Is this correct: NO!
Does it makes sense: NO!
Can we change this: NO!
We still live in a prehistorically world where, as an FO, you have no value at all. You are there because legally they need someone to sit in that seat. But professionally, in this part of the world, you are a consumer commodity.
To go back to my beginning sentence
In all honesty, if you look around you, how many of the FOs you see actually have the maturity and the skills to become a good skipper? Be honest and use the same criteria you used to use in your life as a pilot before QR...
Shame but the truth....
And that contrary to what you are saying, a lot of these so called high hour FOs with lots of experience have no clue whatsoever on how to fly an airplane. They do huge **** ups as well.
Watch out, I will not generalise and there are some really good ones as well, but there are equally skilled ones among the guys with 3000hrs.
All I wanted to say is that, due to the vast difference in backgrounds of pilots in this airline, the experience as written down in a logbook does not mean a thing!
You might be one of the good guys, with lots of experience flying in different climates on different airlines; you might be one of the guys who actually did not cheat in his fly book about previous experience...
But I can tell you, a lot of these high hour FO hotshots ( same goes for lots of the captains by the way) have hugely exaggerated their previous experience, have no clue what they are doing and think they are gods greatest gift to aviation. On top of that a lot of their experience was flying useless little planes somewhere on a domestic route.
So as a company it is a very big risk to take. And I can tell you that, apart from the Qatari FOs who went political by complaining to senior management, the insurance company had something to say in this too.
Unfortunately, for an insurance company, a DEC is still safer than a new upgrade, regardless of what happened before. But somebody else already took the risk by upgrading this DEC before, so therefore the responsibility issue is of the table. For an FO to upgrade to Capt. the issue is totally different and the company itself takes the responsibility.
Is this correct: NO!
Does it makes sense: NO!
Can we change this: NO!
We still live in a prehistorically world where, as an FO, you have no value at all. You are there because legally they need someone to sit in that seat. But professionally, in this part of the world, you are a consumer commodity.
To go back to my beginning sentence
In all honesty, if you look around you, how many of the FOs you see actually have the maturity and the skills to become a good skipper? Be honest and use the same criteria you used to use in your life as a pilot before QR...
Shame but the truth....
Last edited by Qatari515; 12th Sep 2007 at 11:29. Reason: Grammar...what else?
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: sheraton
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gentlemen,
Although many of the things said here ARE indeed correct, I would have to correct you on the following.
QR515s calculations about the numbers are correct; the training department is physically limited in its number of upgrades / year.
What happened during the last selection meeting was that two out of 8 pilots performed under average on their command upgrade interview.
So in stead of failing them 100%, the management decided to give them a chance NOT on A330 but on the A320 fleet!
Exactly how their reasoning regarding decision saw the light or where the logic is to be found, I do not know. This was a first time that a decision of which fleet to go on to was based upon an actual performance during the interview.
Not such a big deal I would say, they still got their chance for an upgrade. Besides that, the gentlemen involved admitted afterwards that their performance during the interview was far from being perfect!
Whether it is them now starting these rumors, or whether it comes from someone else, I do not know.
One thing I do know is that the initial posting by Goat liner is NOT correct. Unfortunately this posting has started an avalanche of rumors and has created a lot of unnecessary worries under the FO’s!
I think this should be avoided at all cost in the future, especially because upper management is following these forums closely and they do not like rumors like this being spread around without a cause.
And at the end, the only victims will be the FO’s awaiting their upgrades!
Although many of the things said here ARE indeed correct, I would have to correct you on the following.
- Upgrading at QR is continuing, just as before.
- Right to left seat transfers on the A330 will continue, just as before, for those who meet the extra requirement of 1 year on the fleet and 6000hrs heavy jet time.
QR515s calculations about the numbers are correct; the training department is physically limited in its number of upgrades / year.
What happened during the last selection meeting was that two out of 8 pilots performed under average on their command upgrade interview.
So in stead of failing them 100%, the management decided to give them a chance NOT on A330 but on the A320 fleet!
Exactly how their reasoning regarding decision saw the light or where the logic is to be found, I do not know. This was a first time that a decision of which fleet to go on to was based upon an actual performance during the interview.
Not such a big deal I would say, they still got their chance for an upgrade. Besides that, the gentlemen involved admitted afterwards that their performance during the interview was far from being perfect!
Whether it is them now starting these rumors, or whether it comes from someone else, I do not know.
One thing I do know is that the initial posting by Goat liner is NOT correct. Unfortunately this posting has started an avalanche of rumors and has created a lot of unnecessary worries under the FO’s!
I think this should be avoided at all cost in the future, especially because upper management is following these forums closely and they do not like rumors like this being spread around without a cause.
And at the end, the only victims will be the FO’s awaiting their upgrades!
Last edited by shneidertrophy; 12th Sep 2007 at 21:41. Reason: 15+ became 8 pilots, pointed out by our friend G.L.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: in harmony
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some truly wise words from the last participant. A word of advise to all the first officers out there don't listen to any kind of crap on this site but go and talk to your chiefs. A hurricane warning has been issued from the tower beware of sweeping force major with devastating results for us though some mentioned here do deserve to be chopped.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tater Salad
Age: 58
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear shneidertrophy( shouldn't it be schneidertrophy, anyway)
if you post in this forum you should at least have valid information and not just daydream.
Last interviewed group was 8 pilots 6 330 2 300. Upgrade offered to them is 320 although your mentioned requirements are met 3 years on 330 and 9000 hrs total time with loads of 320 experience before is what these guys have ( 2 exceptions). I know this as a fact since some of the guys are my friends.
If I post something it is the demotivating , smashing truth not daydreaming of some wannabees that are in QR for 1 1/2 years and think they know how things are run here.
RGDS
G.L.
if you post in this forum you should at least have valid information and not just daydream.
Last interviewed group was 8 pilots 6 330 2 300. Upgrade offered to them is 320 although your mentioned requirements are met 3 years on 330 and 9000 hrs total time with loads of 320 experience before is what these guys have ( 2 exceptions). I know this as a fact since some of the guys are my friends.
If I post something it is the demotivating , smashing truth not daydreaming of some wannabees that are in QR for 1 1/2 years and think they know how things are run here.
RGDS
G.L.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: sheraton
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Goatliner,
So maybe the exact numbers of the participants I quoted is wrong, I can assure you that the rest of the info is right!
What I know as well is that only 2 of the A330 eligible guys to go on A330 will go on A320, for the reasons I quoted earlier. And rightfully so! They gave plain stupid answers on their interview. If I would have been there, they would not even have gotten a chance on an A320 left seat!
Stop moaning and step into the office tomorrow to ask the correct information for Pete's sake!
I am sure management will issue a memo regarding this issue soon, as your rumor now has reached the fleet office!
And I am equally sure all the guys concerned will thank you for that!
PS: looking at your remark about S(C)hneidertrophy I am getting the feeling that you might be one of the two people concerned….If that is the case, you better stop making waves my friend as they will catch up with you very soon! If you are not one of them, my mistake and disregard this PS.
So maybe the exact numbers of the participants I quoted is wrong, I can assure you that the rest of the info is right!
What I know as well is that only 2 of the A330 eligible guys to go on A330 will go on A320, for the reasons I quoted earlier. And rightfully so! They gave plain stupid answers on their interview. If I would have been there, they would not even have gotten a chance on an A320 left seat!
Stop moaning and step into the office tomorrow to ask the correct information for Pete's sake!
I am sure management will issue a memo regarding this issue soon, as your rumor now has reached the fleet office!
And I am equally sure all the guys concerned will thank you for that!
PS: looking at your remark about S(C)hneidertrophy I am getting the feeling that you might be one of the two people concerned….If that is the case, you better stop making waves my friend as they will catch up with you very soon! If you are not one of them, my mistake and disregard this PS.
Last edited by shneidertrophy; 13th Sep 2007 at 00:10.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ***
Posts: 350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow, you must be a really great company down there in the sand, threatening people who voice their opinion.
Wow, am i going to recommend you to my friends to choose to fly.
Your pilots must be afraid of the management while they fly, that seems really trustworthy.
I will spread the word.
Nic
Wow, am i going to recommend you to my friends to choose to fly.
Your pilots must be afraid of the management while they fly, that seems really trustworthy.
I will spread the word.
Nic
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: u.k.
Age: 48
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote:
Stop moaning and step into the office tomorrow to ask the correct information for Pete's sake!
Oh yes, because if you ask, you will receive.
Get serious...
The management just lie to keep you sweet.
Wise up.
Stop moaning and step into the office tomorrow to ask the correct information for Pete's sake!
Oh yes, because if you ask, you will receive.
Get serious...
The management just lie to keep you sweet.
Wise up.