EK Resignations
Join Date: May 2005
Location: dubai
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I have no idea about the no shows, but if 107 is true, then that is shocking.
I do know from a colleague who went thru the resigning interview, that 60 pilots had resigned in 2005. This was after great efforts on his part to ascertain this info from the interviewer. Whether the information given was accurate is definitely debatable but in all likelihood, if anything, it was understated.
As for doing a runner, I don't believe that is a good idea. It might open some eyes back in Dubai, which might benefit those of us remaining, but I still believe that it is an unwise move. One would really have to be unfairly treated to be justified in those regards, IMHO.
I do know from a colleague who went thru the resigning interview, that 60 pilots had resigned in 2005. This was after great efforts on his part to ascertain this info from the interviewer. Whether the information given was accurate is definitely debatable but in all likelihood, if anything, it was understated.
As for doing a runner, I don't believe that is a good idea. It might open some eyes back in Dubai, which might benefit those of us remaining, but I still believe that it is an unwise move. One would really have to be unfairly treated to be justified in those regards, IMHO.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: lgw
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I cant say too much on here but there is a secret underground organisation to smuggle EK pilots off the roster downroute. In return all that is asked is that you sign an affadavit stating that all that bolox about wanting a better lifestyle and who cares what seat i'm in was a cover for the real reason. An egotistical maneuvere to shortcut to a widebody command that went pear shaped.A job will be provided but only on the types on your real licence but no moaning about a night corfu is allowed.
If you sit alone on the right hand seat of the bar of the meridien at lgw with no cabin crew or colleagues to socialise with, you will be approached.
Keep Dissappearing.
Ps the no shows will decrease now that all you need to pass selection is some dodgy 737-200 time, a dodgy icao licence and a white(ish) skin. One mans hell is amnothers nirvarna.
If you sit alone on the right hand seat of the bar of the meridien at lgw with no cabin crew or colleagues to socialise with, you will be approached.
Keep Dissappearing.
Ps the no shows will decrease now that all you need to pass selection is some dodgy 737-200 time, a dodgy icao licence and a white(ish) skin. One mans hell is amnothers nirvarna.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Luton
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Keep Disappearing!!
But it is not all about the command. The airline is still showing upgrade times to be just over three years, still better than anywhere else, but is it all about commands, money etc? There is too much info here on Emirates for me to even contemplate adding to it but life in Dubai has changed. The so called 'lifestyle' that we enjoyed in Dubai has gone. There are no beaches to camp on anymore, they are building sites now. The quick drive to the local supermarket needs to be timed carefully otherwise you end up in traffic for an hour. 7 star hotels are passé, there's almost one on every corner now. Too many malls, too many records being broken, for some this place has lost the plot.
I am all for progress and change but cannot see any evidence to suggest that Dubai has done nothing other than become another Singapore or Hong Kong, and for many of us if we wanted to live in either place we'd have applied for SQ or CX.
There is too much concrete, not enough greenery (yes I know, It's a desert!) but they can have grass where and when they want it, primarily on the golf courses, but more expenditure on public areas would be welcome.
I could go on and on, but basically those that have left, or are thinking of leaving, are not happy here, despite the management spin on reasons given for leaving. After all, who would honestly say in their departure interview that they were sick of the changes, the lies, the lack of support and the overwork ethic that exists? Nobobody wants to burn bridges so it's just easier to say 'I want to go home....' If the management and HR want to propogate otherwise then that's fine, we're not stupid. Many are not happy here and that is why they leave.
Last edited by SecurID; 19th Dec 2005 at 20:33.
Join Date: May 2004
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Ahad,
I am not sure I agree with your figures. I get copied in on recruitment status forms and the no shows you talk about are no where near the figure you quote. As far as resignations go, cant say I agree with that figure either. 2005 has been a busy year with lots happening. As has been stated before here, do you know the 37 pilots that have left. I dont think I can name 20.
The thing is there is no where else to go really. If you said that figure over an 18 month to 2 year period, I think I would agree. Lets face it though. The company more than doubled in size since I joined. It means now that there are more people pro rata to be disgruntled. I would like to think that with the appointment of the new recruitment manager, things might start to change. Not sure if you saw the latest FCN inviting pilots back onto the recruitment team. About time too. Very unhealthy with just an HR input in pilot recruitment. We seem to be getting some really nice guys, but the standard of some of their flying is shocking to say the least. The standard has definitely dropped. Or maybe now the bucket is starting to empty.
Prepare for several things. Firstly back to transition upgrades, secondly they will lower the standard of applicants experience. By that I mean take guys without Heavy jet time. Lets face it we have cadets who are on line now with 500 hours. The guys will join now with maybe turbo prop time (1000 hours) Thats just a figure I have thought of. The new pilot will then be "Emiratized" with no chance of a command for lets say 5 years. I think the standard will be good. Lets face it I remember most of the jet guys here went from a turbo prop to a jet. Whats the difference between say a B757/767 to a 330/777. Especially when there is a cadet programme here with guys having flown small aircraft being put on large aircraft. With the right training it is totally workable.
Finally the long awaited pay rise. Etihad are down the road now with a large pay rise looming. We are all mercenaries really and whoever pays the most gets the pilots. The bucket here is nearly empty and having taken 9 B777's this year, 12 next year plus extra 340's coming. 2007 will be the 380's turn. You dont need to be a rocket scientist to work out that pilots are desperatley needed. Something has to give. The question is what and where !!
I am not sure I agree with your figures. I get copied in on recruitment status forms and the no shows you talk about are no where near the figure you quote. As far as resignations go, cant say I agree with that figure either. 2005 has been a busy year with lots happening. As has been stated before here, do you know the 37 pilots that have left. I dont think I can name 20.
The thing is there is no where else to go really. If you said that figure over an 18 month to 2 year period, I think I would agree. Lets face it though. The company more than doubled in size since I joined. It means now that there are more people pro rata to be disgruntled. I would like to think that with the appointment of the new recruitment manager, things might start to change. Not sure if you saw the latest FCN inviting pilots back onto the recruitment team. About time too. Very unhealthy with just an HR input in pilot recruitment. We seem to be getting some really nice guys, but the standard of some of their flying is shocking to say the least. The standard has definitely dropped. Or maybe now the bucket is starting to empty.
Prepare for several things. Firstly back to transition upgrades, secondly they will lower the standard of applicants experience. By that I mean take guys without Heavy jet time. Lets face it we have cadets who are on line now with 500 hours. The guys will join now with maybe turbo prop time (1000 hours) Thats just a figure I have thought of. The new pilot will then be "Emiratized" with no chance of a command for lets say 5 years. I think the standard will be good. Lets face it I remember most of the jet guys here went from a turbo prop to a jet. Whats the difference between say a B757/767 to a 330/777. Especially when there is a cadet programme here with guys having flown small aircraft being put on large aircraft. With the right training it is totally workable.
Finally the long awaited pay rise. Etihad are down the road now with a large pay rise looming. We are all mercenaries really and whoever pays the most gets the pilots. The bucket here is nearly empty and having taken 9 B777's this year, 12 next year plus extra 340's coming. 2007 will be the 380's turn. You dont need to be a rocket scientist to work out that pilots are desperatley needed. Something has to give. The question is what and where !!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Luton
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Uplink, may I be so bold as to quote you....
As you seem intent on being a provider of factual, rather than rumoured occurrences, I certainly hope you are right. Your reputation as being a more moderate and balanced contributor rests on the outcome of your prophecies!
I try to state facts...
I just stated fact, which makes a change to the usual horse **** we read here...
I just stated fact, which makes a change to the usual horse **** we read here...
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Stockholm / Sweden
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... well, just to contribute my views ...
last week, we had a cometogether of pilots, as one of the F/Os was leavin after 4 years for "personal reasons" (most likely s'thing went wrong with his upgrade - so, don't take that for granted though!) - and gave us a higly appreciated farewell down at a nice S-Z Road Pub ....
What worries me, that during the casual talk, i realized, that more than half of the bunch of guys (mostly F/Os) are fairely unhappy here - especially due to their very low income at EK - which is somewhere araound 18.000 Dhm /equals 4.900 U$ only!! - which is definitily NOT enough to cope with the spiralling living costs here; most of them can't save a penny of their salaries, as they struggle to pay their mortgages/ installments etc. back home;
consequently, a good percentage of those guys are planning to leave, as soon as their bond is finshed, as there are definitivley more and more opportunities opening up in the "old world"- with about the same salary, but in a civilized and slavery-free society;
To sum it up: Yes, the conditions down here have definitively deteriorated over the last years, building sites, concrete and dirt all over the place - the Jumeira Beach road a dirty building site since month now, the only park in BurDubai - including the palms ! - "taken out", to give way to the new (much needed!) railway station ...
Thus means, even less greenery downtown, and the housing and living costs still spiralling upwards!
It's time to move on, if we don't get a significantly payrise soon(> 20 % is considered to be a MINIMUM to be expected to keep the folks on the run - like Ethihad - which m ight help to compensate the lower life quality down here at the sandpit; My CV is on my computer already
last week, we had a cometogether of pilots, as one of the F/Os was leavin after 4 years for "personal reasons" (most likely s'thing went wrong with his upgrade - so, don't take that for granted though!) - and gave us a higly appreciated farewell down at a nice S-Z Road Pub ....
What worries me, that during the casual talk, i realized, that more than half of the bunch of guys (mostly F/Os) are fairely unhappy here - especially due to their very low income at EK - which is somewhere araound 18.000 Dhm /equals 4.900 U$ only!! - which is definitily NOT enough to cope with the spiralling living costs here; most of them can't save a penny of their salaries, as they struggle to pay their mortgages/ installments etc. back home;
consequently, a good percentage of those guys are planning to leave, as soon as their bond is finshed, as there are definitivley more and more opportunities opening up in the "old world"- with about the same salary, but in a civilized and slavery-free society;
To sum it up: Yes, the conditions down here have definitively deteriorated over the last years, building sites, concrete and dirt all over the place - the Jumeira Beach road a dirty building site since month now, the only park in BurDubai - including the palms ! - "taken out", to give way to the new (much needed!) railway station ...
Thus means, even less greenery downtown, and the housing and living costs still spiralling upwards!
It's time to move on, if we don't get a significantly payrise soon(> 20 % is considered to be a MINIMUM to be expected to keep the folks on the run - like Ethihad - which m ight help to compensate the lower life quality down here at the sandpit; My CV is on my computer already
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UAE
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Two interviews this year, offered both jobs and will be handing my notice in during February. I have had enough and am happy to leave. I will not be telling them lies at my departure interview, I will tell them exactly what I think, they deserve nothing less.
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Dissapointed,
Good luck to you mate and well done on the other jobs. However, dont get too excited about the departure interview. Your "flight ops managers" and I use that term very loosely, plus your respective CP wont want anything to do with you. The interview will be conducted in a subdivided room, possibly your chair will be hanging out in the hallway and "interviewed" by some low grade HR admin clerk that continues to scribble in a book and nods every 10sec supposedly in total agreement with your spoken word. Now, we must ask ourselves. Has the 20 odd brothers that have left over the last year and gone through the same procedure made them change in any way. ???
Good luck to you mate and well done on the other jobs. However, dont get too excited about the departure interview. Your "flight ops managers" and I use that term very loosely, plus your respective CP wont want anything to do with you. The interview will be conducted in a subdivided room, possibly your chair will be hanging out in the hallway and "interviewed" by some low grade HR admin clerk that continues to scribble in a book and nods every 10sec supposedly in total agreement with your spoken word. Now, we must ask ourselves. Has the 20 odd brothers that have left over the last year and gone through the same procedure made them change in any way. ???
Join Date: Nov 2003
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I left this year and wasted an hour of my life doing the exit interview.
I watched what the HR underling was writing and it bore absolutely no resemblance to what I was saying - when I challenged him I was told it was being translated into 'management speak' to make it more readable - what he was actually doing was removing anything even vaguely negative about the company and particularly the managers.
When I asked what they did with the reports I was told they were collated and presented to management on a quarterly basis. Obviously so they can ignore them all at once!!
Still have absolutely no regrets over leaving...
I watched what the HR underling was writing and it bore absolutely no resemblance to what I was saying - when I challenged him I was told it was being translated into 'management speak' to make it more readable - what he was actually doing was removing anything even vaguely negative about the company and particularly the managers.
When I asked what they did with the reports I was told they were collated and presented to management on a quarterly basis. Obviously so they can ignore them all at once!!
Still have absolutely no regrets over leaving...
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Middle East
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Secure,
Very kind of you to quote me. I only say things as I see them at the time. You know as well as I do that things change overnight. What is stated on reports may only be what we are meant to see, who knows.
I consider my self as you say, a balanced contributor. I try not to get involved in the speculation too much as I have been in this game too long. I try not to get excited by rumours but prefer the evidence as and when it happens.
The original thread was concerning how to get out of EK. Most people have the right idea about leaving in a correct manner. I dont think that jumping ship in the middle of the night is a good idea, as these things have a habit of creeping up on you. Not in a few months but a few years.
The Captain who left EK a short while ago has left a family and a huge debt for her to sort out. What a spineless prat for doing that. EK is a better place not having a unstable guy like that around. I only hope he gets what he deserves, because one dark night he may find himself in Dubai for whatever reason. I think a person who absconds in that manner does not want to continue his career in aviation. To leave and not pay a bond is one thing. To leave and not pay your debts I do not think is a good idea, but that is just my opinion. To leave your whole family to clear up your mess is just pure evil. Guys like that should be in prison. I know alot more about this gentleman which I am not going to put on here. I will say this though. You join a company and have a bond (which lets face it is only fair) Should you leave in whatever manner you choose then you have to face the music should it catch up with you a few years down the line. But then again thats just my opinion.
Very kind of you to quote me. I only say things as I see them at the time. You know as well as I do that things change overnight. What is stated on reports may only be what we are meant to see, who knows.
I consider my self as you say, a balanced contributor. I try not to get involved in the speculation too much as I have been in this game too long. I try not to get excited by rumours but prefer the evidence as and when it happens.
The original thread was concerning how to get out of EK. Most people have the right idea about leaving in a correct manner. I dont think that jumping ship in the middle of the night is a good idea, as these things have a habit of creeping up on you. Not in a few months but a few years.
The Captain who left EK a short while ago has left a family and a huge debt for her to sort out. What a spineless prat for doing that. EK is a better place not having a unstable guy like that around. I only hope he gets what he deserves, because one dark night he may find himself in Dubai for whatever reason. I think a person who absconds in that manner does not want to continue his career in aviation. To leave and not pay a bond is one thing. To leave and not pay your debts I do not think is a good idea, but that is just my opinion. To leave your whole family to clear up your mess is just pure evil. Guys like that should be in prison. I know alot more about this gentleman which I am not going to put on here. I will say this though. You join a company and have a bond (which lets face it is only fair) Should you leave in whatever manner you choose then you have to face the music should it catch up with you a few years down the line. But then again thats just my opinion.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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I consider my self as you say, a balanced contributor.
However when you comment
You join a company and have a bond (which lets face it is only fair)
You don't receive management information without being part of the team. In this organisation you need to sell your soul, morals and integrity to be part of THAT team.
Join Date: May 2004
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RUSerious
I was of the understanding that the bond covered only your training. Unless you have signed a further bond for blood, sweat and tears.
I mentioned nothing about T&C's. Separate issue?
I was of the understanding that the bond covered only your training. Unless you have signed a further bond for blood, sweat and tears.
I mentioned nothing about T&C's. Separate issue?
Join Date: May 2005
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Sanddancer U have lost 1 hour on your exit interview?
What should I say...I've lost only 10 minutes when the HR j@@@k suggested me to sign the resignation from my previous Company within 5 minutes 'cause He was busy with a meeting
What should I say...I've lost only 10 minutes when the HR j@@@k suggested me to sign the resignation from my previous Company within 5 minutes 'cause He was busy with a meeting
Join Date: May 2004
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I never said a bond was fair but on the other hand if you invested the thousands of dollars it costs to train me and after 6 months with virtually zero productivity I walked out. Would you be happy?
Join Date: Apr 2003
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The fairness or otherwise of the Bond depends on the type rating you came here with and the type your on. Unfortunatley a guy who arrived with say an EMB145 pencil jet rating and got a 777 or 330 type has the same bond as a guy who joined with an a330 or 777 rating and is on the same type. Unless of course your a DEC whereupon the bond is dropped by 2/3s to 12000 USD as opposed to $36,000 for everybody else if you came rated.
The bond is only fair if the company expended that or greater on you to train you. In most cases the $12000 would be more realistic. But if you needed the job at the time they had you by the balls. Now they will lick your nuts to get you to join.
Anyway counting the weeks to a course back in civilisation. No bond as already rated, no thanks to EK.
Lots of tax of course and I have to live in my own house with no threat of being moved out and having my life turned upside down by some TCN administrator who would have no problem if they moved you to a shanty town in down town Madras over 6000 Dhs.
I guess this should be my last post on EK and purge any referance from my PC. A sort of New year resolution.
Adios
The bond is only fair if the company expended that or greater on you to train you. In most cases the $12000 would be more realistic. But if you needed the job at the time they had you by the balls. Now they will lick your nuts to get you to join.
Anyway counting the weeks to a course back in civilisation. No bond as already rated, no thanks to EK.
Lots of tax of course and I have to live in my own house with no threat of being moved out and having my life turned upside down by some TCN administrator who would have no problem if they moved you to a shanty town in down town Madras over 6000 Dhs.
I guess this should be my last post on EK and purge any referance from my PC. A sort of New year resolution.
Adios
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Uplink you are right that the company spends money on you to train you. But I got news for you, that is the cost of doing business and all companies have to put up with that costs. Pay industry standard rates and treat your employees right and the company with have virtually a zero percent attrition rate. As I said before the bond is border line illeagal IMHO. You can not keep someone in "bondage."