Qatar's package and Working conditions

[a330flyer]

great posts 515

Great posts there, 515!
The biggest problem: a lot of guys joining believe the lies they are told at the interview and join without a waterproof backup plan (or spend their money to settle in Doha and can't really afford to leave this place for a while)!
When joining Qatar Airways, always make sure you have a waterproof backup plan! ALWAYS!
I was fortunate enough to have one, took the risk of joining (despite the information I had found on pprune -- of which 90% turned out to be true!), liked it until the company refused to give me what was legally my right (won't go into detail, but getting a lawyer in Doha against the national airline is not quite as easy as it seems), and eventually went back to my old job!
So, join this wonderfully ambitious airline of happy people giving jobs to everybody so generously (just quoting Mr. N/A...), but make for god's sake and your family's sake sure you have a WATERPROOF BACKUP PLAN...
and enough savings to afford another move (backwards)!

[Black Stain]

Little Job for N/A Office Boy

Hey N/A.... You seem to have your finger on the pulse with management, or nose inserted, whatever. Go and find out something for us will ya.

This whole training bond business started after I joined. I recently did some training, but I never signed any bond. Do management expect me to pay it anyway?

I am sure to correct this oversight to their benefit they will just take the bond from my end of service gratuity.

And the next obvious question is, why hang about here for the three months notice period if there is no gratuity at the end??

Please dont tell me that it's the professional thing to do, I have never regarded the circus as a profession. Dont tell the clowns that though will you (note the correct spelling.... CLOWN).

Black Stain

[gnadirs]

Hell yeah....a tread just like the good old days!

515...well said young man! You hit the nail on the head. Some of these rock crawlers will never learn though....

Some Typos in your post as well but hey, I guess that has something to do with that throbbing vain on your forehead....Just joking...

And typos are not he same as blunt spelling mistakes Mr NA....


Some details, without getting personal:

UPGRADES (that means becoming Capt, all those of you who look at a fleet transfers as an upgrade should get their heads examined)

Only after 3 years in the company and 5000Hrs jet time! NEVER before..(instruction from upper mngmnt to prevent some of the second officers from upgrading to soon)

HOUSING

Capt --> Thre bedroom villa, if available. Dont expect a luxury lifestyle but ist honest accomodation

FO --> Two or three bedroom appartement. Crap accomodation in the middle of the soukh area in town. To be compared with Baghdad after the second gulf war. ( QR does not care if you have kids/wife/cat/dog)


SCHOOLING

50000QR max per year. Max 3 kids ( 50000 devided over 3) untill they turn 21. Overseas schooling is paid as well.

TRAINING BOND

Overhere, when you fart you will get bonded. So yes, they do exist.


These are facts and have nothing to do with the fact you do or dont like the company, living here etc....Those are personal things and everybody has to decide on those for themselves.( well, actually your future ex-wife will decide them for you)

NA and others.....Management needs good company mercenaries like yourselves badly. Go and knock on one of the doors there, bend over and youll get what you want!

But try to avoid poisoning others with your ideas....

The truth might hurt but everybody has the right to know it!

[Hajj Man]

Qatari515,

You said it very well.

HM

[ironbutt57]

All of this such a shame really, as a QR passenger in economy class..I was really impressed by the aircraft,(one could eat their meal off the toilet seat) and the crew...but the impression of the crew working out of fear as opposed to personal professional convictions was also VERY present....sort out this anomaly, and it would be airline utopia....

[popay]

NO NEED TO WALK THROUGH THE DIRT ANY MORE. What a wonderful day, isn't it? Please no need for cleaning, just tissues.
Quite a controversy matter presenting the company's issues on the pprune, isnt it?
Anyhow, welcome to Doha debate sponsored by your 5* airline.
Legal aspects about public statements:legally and according to the book we aren't allowed to make any public statements.
None of us has got the power of attorney from QR to represent the company and act on behalf of QR other than within the scope of the duty compelled.
I've no reason to believe any ethnic group in QR is absolutely incapable of representing their queries and if they don't, sorry boys .... Why some people take the freedom to speak on other's behalf remains THE question as much as the motive for such acting. Whether it's an intentional damaging or a burning desire to improve remains to be answered......True is also that publishing critical information provides the necessary adrenalin kick for the concerned persons and gets the job done. A little abuse for a good purpose doesn't really harm, does it?
Abusing the situation may I kindly remind the upper echelons about the absence of a valid employment contract, promised provident fund and long awaited solution for company accommodation, thank you.
I've proposed at the beginning a company internal forum where all the existing problems can be discussed and possible solutions found. Nothing new look at EK and some others. This would prompt a constructive discussion and possible lead to some improvement. OPEN COMMUNICATION CHANELLS IS THE ONLY WAY. However I don't think QR is ready for that, though on personal level it seems to be working at least on the 340 fleet. Too nice to be true in the company format. Transparency is the only way to get rid of any kind of rumors.
Last but not least anyone requiring any kind of legal assistance in Qatar please refer to the designated lawyers list published on the US embassy web side http://qatar.usembassy.gov/lawyers_in_qatar.html
I warmly recommend Law Office of Noora Sarhan to anyone bear in mind those guys charge quite a bit.
No offence boys but that's the way it looks.
Cheers.

[fullforward]

Qr B777

Don´t wanting to stir it up, but does anyone have an idea were QR would take the necessary drivers for the triples coming in the next few months in cascates?

[Black Stain]

sorry boys .... Why some people take the freedom to speak on other's behalf remains THE question as much as the motive for such acting.

Three answers in order of merit:

1. Light House Keeping. An ancient and worthy profession to warn others of danger.

2. Deeply rooted anger and resentment.

3. Sometimes it's just plain fun to rattle the monkeys cage.

[a330flyer]

Last but not least anyone requiring any kind of legal assistance in Qatar please refer to the designated lawyers list published on the US embassy web side http://qatar.usembassy.gov/lawyers_in_qatar.html
I warmly recommend Law Office of Noora Sarhan to anyone bear in mind those guys charge quite a bit.

...sure never saw a lawyer who refuses to take my money...
Though it might be hard in the ME to find a judge ruling against the national pride...
You might have realized that Qatar is a big country with a huge number of locals
Better make sure first who is who and who hates whom and who is married with whom and ....still, the lawyer won't refuse your money, but in a country like Qatar he will barely make a difference! If you seek justice, better do it in a civilized country...

[popay]

Black Stain, hi there.
Number 1 declined cause no one cares about others in QR unless it's a personal matter (I haven't seen Samaritans wearing a pilot uniform) and it's unrealistic to achieve any major change through pprune, except the tissues, I hope. In general that's the case everywhere. However that's your opinion.
Number 2 bought it's personal.
Number 3 is the most common cause.
A little excursion into the pprune rules:
We at PPRuNe also reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you.
Cheers.

[Qatari515]

Hi popay,,,


you give me the creeps with that legal mumbo jumbo of yours. Do you talk like that at home as well ?


Anyway, question for 4 HP


In the history of Pprune, has there ever been a case where you guys revealed a posters identity because of a complaint or legal action?

[4HolerPoler]

No. Never.

We've shut down posts and threads because we believed they constituted a legal threat to the owners of this site and we removed threads due to legal action, which after due consideration we concurred with, but never, despite frequent demands, have we revealed the identity of a member.

4HP

[popay]

QR 515, hi there. Nothing personal mate just facts. Just drawing public attention to the rules published. It's not something I've invented.
There's a discontent in logic and moral approach for some participants obviously in posting critical (true and not so true) information about the company causing a possible image damage and enjoying the benefits of employment of the same company at the same time. I'd applaud you if you were a journalist fighting for a liberalisation of QR and democratisation of Qatar bearing the consequences for your writing. Impunity makes sometimes people drifting away from the moral codex. The reasons for that have been listed above. Those are two different pairs of shoes freedom of speech and bitching, I hope you agree on that one. One thing, I agree upon, is that it doesn't improve the situation whatsoever on the contrary it only aggravates it. Having said that some people actually do derive benefits from pilot shortage by flying more and getting more, why not!? Finally if one feels like urgently needed to reveal the "TRUTH" it 'd be appropriate to become a journalist not a pilot. Again I don't agree with many thing happening here however it's a question of moral and ethical attitude regarding the information passing to the outside world with one exception only if the matter concerns and affects someone personally. In this case I'd say by all means use whatever media available to achieve the goal and that's what I suggest to A330-300 if he/she is serious about the claim. I think we should be a bit more prudent in dealing with sensitive information unless of course the aim is to scare the people away from QR and enjoy the benefits of controlled chaos.
I hope that's not a case. Again the absence of proper communication does cause the frictions.
Cheers.

[Qatari515]

Got the point.

And I agree with you, is spreading of wrong information only happens for personal purposes it should be stopped. Some people do get a kick from stirring the pot, just for the heck of it.

That being said, I will always fight for the right of freedom of speech, as well as the right everyone has to be informed correctly.

People have the right to know what they are up against. people have the right to get all info in order to base their decisions on something correctly

Personally I believe this can only be done by telling the truth. And as we all know the truth can be positive as well as negative.

That is why, when something is good I will post it here when asked. But the same goes for the negative aspects overhere.

And no, this has nothing to do with any ambition to be a journalist. Back home, wherever that might be for any of us, most of us where represeneted by a union. And the union provided a forum for anyone in need to blow of steam..

Overhere, unfortunately, unions are illegal. But people still need to vent their frustrations from time to time.

Pprune is just one of the ways at our disposal here.

And if at the same time the forum can be used to inform anybody intrested, I dont see any harm in it!

Once more , deliberately harming any company or any private person, without any good back up, should be halted becase it jeopardises the good and truthfull info coming through.

Thats why the mods are here....

[popay]

QR 515 roger that. Emotional point is taken. Truth however is somewhat controversy. Never mind. Talking about union here is the reference from the labour law of Qatar:
PART TWELVE
WORKERS ORGANIZATIONS
Article (116)
The workers working in an establishment where the number of Qatari workers is not less than hundred workers may form a committee from amongst themselves to be named " the Workers Committee" and more than one committee in the establishment may not be formed.
The workers committees in the establishments engaged in one trade or industry or similar or interrelated trades or industries are entitled to form a general committee from amongst themselves to be named the General Committee for the Workers of Trade or Industry.
The general committees of the workers of the various trades and industries may form amongst themselves a general union to be named the! "General Union of the Workers of Qatar".
The membership in the two committees referred to and in the General Union of the Workers of Qatar shall be confined to the Qatari workers. The Minister shall specify the conditions and procedures for the formation of the workers organizations referred to and the membership therein and the way of carrying out their business and the interrelated and similar trades and industries.
As you can see it's absolutely legal to form union but it's reserved for the Qatari nationals. Reading further employees can go on strike here according to the article 120. It's all up to the Qatari nationals what this airline is gonna be like. Kuwait is the best example.
Anyway if anyone is interested here is the link http://www.qatarembassy.net/Qatar_Labour_Law.asp
Cheers.

[Black Stain]

We at PPRuNe also reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you.

Either you are naive or I am paranoid, but I am quite sure QR knew exactly who I was from the very first post. I dont bother with internet cafes, so Qr security via the Qatari Police and Qtel can find out the telephone number, street address and hence the occupant Black Stain's real name without too much effort.

Big deal....

Do I plan a long future here.... no
Have I told any lies.... no
Worried about termination.... no (positive financial outcome)

The only moral issue for debate here is the telling of lies and the abuse of the labour resource.

Yeah I rattle a few cages for pleasure, just like the locals rattle my cage on the roads, the desert, the waters etc.... Strangely I feel no guilt, am I a sinner???

(I haven't seen Samaritans wearing a pilot uniform)

Believe it or not Popay, I do actually feel the dissappointment of the FOs that were tricked into employment here. They will not speak up on this forum now because they need to recover something from this mess. Dont condemn them for their careful silence. I on the other hand have nothing to lose and am not prone to regret or embarressment.

[popay]

B.S hi there. Well, everyone shall get what he/she is asking for. I'd prefer to call you abstract Jesus if you don't mind cause all you do is just feel sorry. I will need a sacrifice in order to be able to call you a real Jesus. As you know that's what he did. Sorry mate not enough if you claim injustice. Any airline and it's spirit is created by the commanders, it's undeniable fact. I suppose you're one. So what have you done to eliminate the lies or to safeguard the abused rights of poor F/Os? Easy to sit at home and punch the knobs, isn't it? Did you confront the management with it? Did you speak up during the meeting? Did you do anything to restore justice other than just posting on pprune? Is that the way you care about f/os? Your carelessness doesn't do any good for us.
Anyway I stand on what I believe and that's common practise around the globe.
There's information for public use and internal memorandum. That's the whole point. Whatever and however the airline might be it's not about it. It's about our professionalism.
Cheers.

[4HolerPoler]

You two need to get out of the sun immediately; it's having a very bad effect on you - what on earth are you babbling on about? Get a grip or continue your parables by PM or email please.

4HP

[2lowgear]

Can someone give me an idea of how much $$$ I could expect to take home if I were to accept an offer for the A330 F/O (in company accomodation)? Also if I tried to buy property, what could I get for say 1,500,000. I'm trying to figure out if I'm better off where I am (GF). Thanks

[ArielDC10]

assesment information

Anybody could tell how the interviews and the simulator assesment in QR.
I will have the interviews and sim on next June.

Thanks.