Life after EK
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Days off spent abroad...
What's the big deal? As Gulfa said, drop the girls in the office an email. I often request to spend my days off out of Dubai. Very simple process, just email Leslie, Reshma or Thuwayba (incidentally, all very underrated and unappreciated individuals) and they will without fail send a confirmation back agreeing to the time being spent away.
I know of no situation where anyone has been denied this with the exception of a couple of guys waiting on a disciplinary hearing.
I know of no situation where anyone has been denied this with the exception of a couple of guys waiting on a disciplinary hearing.
Join Date: May 2001
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No offence guys, but I'm never gonna work for a company where I have to ask some office girl if I can have permission to go to Bangkok on my days off.
The fact that you find that acceptable speaks volumes for how brainwashed you've become, living in a sandpit where you have no human rights and no say.
The fact that you find that acceptable speaks volumes for how brainwashed you've become, living in a sandpit where you have no human rights and no say.
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no offence guy, but some might feel brainwashed having to live on an island where some people shoot each other over an old book and i personally prefer sun to drizzle. i worked for a civilized, old and reputed european company and even there it was in the contract that if you were off (not leave) more than three days and planning to leave the country, you were expected to contact fleet office. and by the way: we don't call them “some office girls”.
Last edited by turtleneck; 29th May 2005 at 03:22.
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Maxalt:
Brainwashed? You must be friggin' joking mate! I am opening my eyes to all that is around me and the fact that I have to politely send an email to the Superintendants (NOT some office girls, I would never be that arrogant) means that I am simply following a protocol. Do I agree or disagree? Doesn't matter. To me it is simply something that has to be done and when I politely inform them where I will be, the answer has alwasy been 'Approved, enjoy your trip!'
As for having no say, well may I humbly suggest that you start to learn how to ask for things? Ranting and raving, sulking and whining never worked when I was a kid, why should it work now? If you are genuinely unhappy where you are, have you actually expressed your discontent with your senior management?
Uplink:
Agree with your entire post. I also did not vote for the block and in conversations with others that voted for it, neither would they if they had known the full facts and exactly how the reserve blocks would be implemented. But then as my Dad always said, 'It doesn't matter who you vote for Son, the government always get in!'
Brix:
There are hard rules and soft rules. I believe that lowering the gear before landing to be a hard rule. Having a chat with your missus whilst the rest of J-class are having a nap would be in defiance of a soft rule. At the end of the day, who cares? Go and say hello, but as Uplink said, make sure she's not sitting next to your girlfriend!
Believe:
Good points. The fact that the contract has changed is not good at all, but what can be done about it? I am certainly not brainwashed, but I do like the analogy with easy vs. hard time! I guess that I prefer the easier life and not getting worried about things that I cannot influence or change has been the greatest discovery of all for me.
Trimotor:
Yes, forgot about that! Poor old Douglas was legless due to an immature act of foolishness but then reverred as a hero later! Irony at its best.
Brainwashed? You must be friggin' joking mate! I am opening my eyes to all that is around me and the fact that I have to politely send an email to the Superintendants (NOT some office girls, I would never be that arrogant) means that I am simply following a protocol. Do I agree or disagree? Doesn't matter. To me it is simply something that has to be done and when I politely inform them where I will be, the answer has alwasy been 'Approved, enjoy your trip!'
As for having no say, well may I humbly suggest that you start to learn how to ask for things? Ranting and raving, sulking and whining never worked when I was a kid, why should it work now? If you are genuinely unhappy where you are, have you actually expressed your discontent with your senior management?
Uplink:
Agree with your entire post. I also did not vote for the block and in conversations with others that voted for it, neither would they if they had known the full facts and exactly how the reserve blocks would be implemented. But then as my Dad always said, 'It doesn't matter who you vote for Son, the government always get in!'
Brix:
There are hard rules and soft rules. I believe that lowering the gear before landing to be a hard rule. Having a chat with your missus whilst the rest of J-class are having a nap would be in defiance of a soft rule. At the end of the day, who cares? Go and say hello, but as Uplink said, make sure she's not sitting next to your girlfriend!
Believe:
Good points. The fact that the contract has changed is not good at all, but what can be done about it? I am certainly not brainwashed, but I do like the analogy with easy vs. hard time! I guess that I prefer the easier life and not getting worried about things that I cannot influence or change has been the greatest discovery of all for me.
Trimotor:
Yes, forgot about that! Poor old Douglas was legless due to an immature act of foolishness but then reverred as a hero later! Irony at its best.
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Office girl/superintendant - whats the diff?
Some clerk giving me permission to do what I like with my well earned time off is more than just a 'formality' IMHO.
Its an affront to my independance and smacks of Big Brotherism.
Still, some can live under that sort of regime. Its a matter of personal standards I guess.
I once worked for a short while for an Asian company which required all swops to be applied for in writing, in triplicate (or was it quadruplicate), and including a 'reason' for wanting the swop.
Most never bothered trying to swop because of the unweildy system, but when a colleague wanted to finish early so he could pick up his mother from a flight - he wrote 'personal reasons' in the request.
It was refused on grounds he didn't provide enough detail on the reason for wanting the swop!
If they expect you to ask for permission to go away, I presume they can also refuse permission - or why require you to ask?
You say you've never been refused, so thats all right then. What will you do if they ever decide to refuse permission? Do you have any rights? A union? An appeal?
Now, what if the refusal is based on some past misdeameanour? You didn't bend over backwards once to help out, or you were a bit akward about something, or a clerk has just taken a dislike to you?
This is the kind of bullcrap certain managements use to coerce and cow their employees. Its a power trip and they'll use it when the time comes.
Its also why I don't choose to work in the Middle East/Asia.
Some clerk giving me permission to do what I like with my well earned time off is more than just a 'formality' IMHO.
Its an affront to my independance and smacks of Big Brotherism.
Still, some can live under that sort of regime. Its a matter of personal standards I guess.
I once worked for a short while for an Asian company which required all swops to be applied for in writing, in triplicate (or was it quadruplicate), and including a 'reason' for wanting the swop.
Most never bothered trying to swop because of the unweildy system, but when a colleague wanted to finish early so he could pick up his mother from a flight - he wrote 'personal reasons' in the request.
It was refused on grounds he didn't provide enough detail on the reason for wanting the swop!
If they expect you to ask for permission to go away, I presume they can also refuse permission - or why require you to ask?
You say you've never been refused, so thats all right then. What will you do if they ever decide to refuse permission? Do you have any rights? A union? An appeal?
Now, what if the refusal is based on some past misdeameanour? You didn't bend over backwards once to help out, or you were a bit akward about something, or a clerk has just taken a dislike to you?
This is the kind of bullcrap certain managements use to coerce and cow their employees. Its a power trip and they'll use it when the time comes.
Its also why I don't choose to work in the Middle East/Asia.
Last edited by maxalt; 29th May 2005 at 12:59.
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The process for applying to leave off base works ok, try it you get a reply a lot faster than before.
I was denied permission to leave Dubai last year on sick days just before annual leave.
Permission received 4pm on the afternoon before my leave started so yes it has happened Secure Id even to those of us not standing in the corner and trying to stay off the radar screen
You just have to work and bid a little more smarter and even when you get a roster that looks like it was written by your EX you still can ring up sked and change it
I cant believe how guys still ask for days off in exchange for giving you their work ....
I was denied permission to leave Dubai last year on sick days just before annual leave.
Permission received 4pm on the afternoon before my leave started so yes it has happened Secure Id even to those of us not standing in the corner and trying to stay off the radar screen
You just have to work and bid a little more smarter and even when you get a roster that looks like it was written by your EX you still can ring up sked and change it
I cant believe how guys still ask for days off in exchange for giving you their work ....
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Uplock
..when you call scheduling because you doing like your roster, someone else has to do it for you. Is that fair?
If your request to leave base on a day off is rejected, because they are short of pilots, doesnt mean that you have to help and fly on a day off does it now..
..when you call scheduling because you doing like your roster, someone else has to do it for you. Is that fair?
If your request to leave base on a day off is rejected, because they are short of pilots, doesnt mean that you have to help and fly on a day off does it now..
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Payscale, I agree. What confuses me (Easily done
) is that if I did have my request to leave Dxb rejected, on the grounds that they are short I would not answer either of my phones unless I knew who it was. I would also consider telling the company this, unless there is a UAE law passed that makes it compulsory to answer your phone!
.....or be so drunk that when the phone does ring....................
) is that if I did have my request to leave Dxb rejected, on the grounds that they are short I would not answer either of my phones unless I knew who it was. I would also consider telling the company this, unless there is a UAE law passed that makes it compulsory to answer your phone!.....or be so drunk that when the phone does ring....................
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Secure ID,your info is incorrect,I personallyknow of 2 pilots,denied permission to leave DXB last summer on days off,I flew with both at the time.
Uplink,the reasons why many are leaving are varied,but I venture to suggest for many the last 2 years here,is too much.DECs was always a hot topic.It sure is now.Why did they not join as FOs years ago like us?
For people like yourself there never will be an explanation,until you realise not everyone thinks like you do.Many pilots here are very disillusioned.For those who came to EK voluntarily,many remain happy,but for those who needed a job,it is variable.
The direction EK was taken in by the Flt Ops management,some 2 yrs ago is now showing its results.IMHO of course.
Good strategy?QB
Uplink,the reasons why many are leaving are varied,but I venture to suggest for many the last 2 years here,is too much.DECs was always a hot topic.It sure is now.Why did they not join as FOs years ago like us?
For people like yourself there never will be an explanation,until you realise not everyone thinks like you do.Many pilots here are very disillusioned.For those who came to EK voluntarily,many remain happy,but for those who needed a job,it is variable.
The direction EK was taken in by the Flt Ops management,some 2 yrs ago is now showing its results.IMHO of course.
Good strategy?QB
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My Dear ex collegues. It never ceases to amaze me that so many experienced and talented pilots, excellent managers and decision makers, are willing to sit back and accept the absolute bull that EK are dishing out right now. For Gods sake look around you! You are paid appalingly below market rate your meagre conditions of service are constantly being erroded. You have increased productivity and produced excellent profits yet again. You once admired traing department is now a shambolic shadow of it's former self. You have accepted DECs into your airline at a HIGHER rate than exsisting Captains. What does the airline have to do to make you finally get up and go? How low are you all prepared toi go?
I left a while ago and I cannot believe what a good decision I have made. IU am ashamed at having allowed EK to insult me for as long as they did.
You life is in your hands. Stop whinging and move! This profession is suffering precisly because of wimps like you guys allowing management to insult us. Let EK fly their new aircraft without pilots and do the industry a favour. The responsibility lies with you as an individual. Have the balls to stand up and be counted or slide back under you stone and shut up.
I left a while ago and I cannot believe what a good decision I have made. IU am ashamed at having allowed EK to insult me for as long as they did.
You life is in your hands. Stop whinging and move! This profession is suffering precisly because of wimps like you guys allowing management to insult us. Let EK fly their new aircraft without pilots and do the industry a favour. The responsibility lies with you as an individual. Have the balls to stand up and be counted or slide back under you stone and shut up.
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Isn't this a UAE law???
Ok, I know it's a bit off topic..
As far as I am aware, the rule for asking permission for leaving Dubai on days off is actually a legal requirement. EK is the sponsor of your visa, so if you leave the country with outstanding debts and do a runner, it's EK who has to cover for you. This law is 'designed' for the low salary guys on the building sites etc, but does apply to every expat in Dubai. At least that is what I have been told, and it would make sense.. Correct me if I'm talking B*LL.
As from not getting to leave, didn't hear from it before. And no, these superintendants or NOT just office girls.. These girls work extremely hard, are always available for help and never without a smile.. And I have no idea how things would work out without them... Thank you girls!!
Uplock, no offence, but not getting to leave Dubai on sick days before leave is 'normal'. Well actually depends on what you are off for.. just a cough or did you break something?? The thing is, if they would allow this, you'd suddenly get a lot of 'colds' and 'flu' just before or after annual leave, just to be able to book that trip that leaves the day before your leave starts... It does suck for the guys who are genuine sick, but then again, would you want to fly (even as a passenger) when you're feeling ill?
Maxalt, as for Big Brotherism.. A certain low cost carrier in the UK checks staff travel for guys who call in sick.. If they catch you on a staff ticket flying somewhere while you should be in bed, expect a phonecall to come in for T&B. Lalaland is watching you...
As for the topic. Heard the other day in CBC that one of our management captains got an 'emergency' telephone call while on layover about 20 resignations in a few days.. Maybe that's why LL's note on resignations came online on 25th I think, with a date of 20 May... At least they weren't lying about the situation as it was on 20/05, but really, how is it today, or will it be next week.??
As far as I am aware, the rule for asking permission for leaving Dubai on days off is actually a legal requirement. EK is the sponsor of your visa, so if you leave the country with outstanding debts and do a runner, it's EK who has to cover for you. This law is 'designed' for the low salary guys on the building sites etc, but does apply to every expat in Dubai. At least that is what I have been told, and it would make sense.. Correct me if I'm talking B*LL.
As from not getting to leave, didn't hear from it before. And no, these superintendants or NOT just office girls.. These girls work extremely hard, are always available for help and never without a smile.. And I have no idea how things would work out without them... Thank you girls!!
Uplock, no offence, but not getting to leave Dubai on sick days before leave is 'normal'. Well actually depends on what you are off for.. just a cough or did you break something?? The thing is, if they would allow this, you'd suddenly get a lot of 'colds' and 'flu' just before or after annual leave, just to be able to book that trip that leaves the day before your leave starts... It does suck for the guys who are genuine sick, but then again, would you want to fly (even as a passenger) when you're feeling ill?
Maxalt, as for Big Brotherism.. A certain low cost carrier in the UK checks staff travel for guys who call in sick.. If they catch you on a staff ticket flying somewhere while you should be in bed, expect a phonecall to come in for T&B. Lalaland is watching you...
As for the topic. Heard the other day in CBC that one of our management captains got an 'emergency' telephone call while on layover about 20 resignations in a few days.. Maybe that's why LL's note on resignations came online on 25th I think, with a date of 20 May... At least they weren't lying about the situation as it was on 20/05, but really, how is it today, or will it be next week.??
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Hence he'd know all about "meagre conditions of service"
As for being paid "appallingly below market rate" i'm not interested in what the salary is, i'm interested in what actually goes into my bank account. So, even though the salaries may seem low, with no income tax and national insurance to pay, my bank account each month is as good, if not better, than most other COMPARABLE pilots.
As an aside, i'm sure we're all curious to know who this wonder Airline is that you now work for and whether THEY paid YOU an additional 4 weeks pay this month.
Off to hide under my stone.........and count my money!
As for being paid "appallingly below market rate" i'm not interested in what the salary is, i'm interested in what actually goes into my bank account. So, even though the salaries may seem low, with no income tax and national insurance to pay, my bank account each month is as good, if not better, than most other COMPARABLE pilots.
As an aside, i'm sure we're all curious to know who this wonder Airline is that you now work for and whether THEY paid YOU an additional 4 weeks pay this month.
Off to hide under my stone.........and count my money!
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Bymonek you are the problem Yoke is talking about. What other airlines are you comparing fabulous EK to? Air Zimba, PIA, Air Nepal? We will never have the likes of Europe with attitudes that you possess. I would dare carry a wager that EK could even cut your salary and you would not leave. Preciesly the problem.
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bymonek, you went down that road on another thread recently, I think. Compare the amount left over each month with our colleagues at dragon and CX. (A comparable expat job). Even after cost of living and the 15% tax, they have heaps more. That is fact. Talk to similar seniority colleagues. And that is not including the fact that they have 15% paid into their provident funds from day 1. It is only personal preference as to whether you would rather live in HKG or DXB, but remember, as an expat, you will have to leave some day. Think about how much less time you would have to spend as an expat with CX or KA, than what you will need to do here. Oh, and then there are basings with CX if you want a break from HKG.
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Believe Brother
I went down that road because that's the road I want to take. Having a member of my family living in Hong Kong, i'm only too aware how expensive it is there. His Salary is huge but requires it to sustain a bareable quality of life. Cars are frighteningly expensive as are decent restaurants and bars. As for accommodation, if you thing Dubai is expensive,think again.While he lives in a 3 bed high rise, I can live in a 5 bed villa near the beach. It's all personal choice but I don't consider it ' DOING TIME' while i'm here. I choose to come here and my family are very happy.If we weren't, we'd leave! Further more, a visit to the UK is possible over a long weekend, unlike Hong Kong.Whereas for the Aussies...
LHR Rain
As for your wager, my TAKE HOME pay is the same now as an EK F/O than it was as a 3 year Captain with one of the top UK charters. That may not say much for the UK tax system but as I said in my post......it's what goes into the bank that counts.
I went down that road because that's the road I want to take. Having a member of my family living in Hong Kong, i'm only too aware how expensive it is there. His Salary is huge but requires it to sustain a bareable quality of life. Cars are frighteningly expensive as are decent restaurants and bars. As for accommodation, if you thing Dubai is expensive,think again.While he lives in a 3 bed high rise, I can live in a 5 bed villa near the beach. It's all personal choice but I don't consider it ' DOING TIME' while i'm here. I choose to come here and my family are very happy.If we weren't, we'd leave! Further more, a visit to the UK is possible over a long weekend, unlike Hong Kong.Whereas for the Aussies...
LHR Rain
As for your wager, my TAKE HOME pay is the same now as an EK F/O than it was as a 3 year Captain with one of the top UK charters. That may not say much for the UK tax system but as I said in my post......it's what goes into the bank that counts.
Last edited by BYMONEK; 30th May 2005 at 13:12.
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Hi MR8.
Fair enough if it is - but then why do they use it as a means to control crewing, as has been stated?
If its just a legal technicality how can they refuse your colleagues permission at all? Unless they think they're never coming back?
I have no problem at all with that! Thats because I can see the difference between a legitimate right to freedom of travel on my days off and being caught out in an intentional lie and abuse of sick leave rules.
As far as I am aware, the rule for asking permission for leaving Dubai on days off is actually a legal requirement. EK is the sponsor of your visa, so if you leave the country with outstanding debts and do a runner, it's EK who has to cover for you. This law is 'designed' for the low salary guys on the building sites etc, but does apply to every expat in Dubai. At least that is what I have been told, and it would make sense.. Correct me if I'm talking B*LL.
If its just a legal technicality how can they refuse your colleagues permission at all? Unless they think they're never coming back?
Maxalt, as for Big Brotherism.. A certain low cost carrier in the UK checks staff travel for guys who call in sick.. If they catch you on a staff ticket flying somewhere while you should be in bed, expect a phonecall to come in for T&B. Lalaland is watching you...