Emirates - New Conditions

[ekslave]

Games over boys.
A token guesture from timmy before he retires to his country estate. It's time for him to bale out now before it falls apart around his ears. Lets face it, it's going to get more difficult for manages now - they might even have to do something to stop the rot.
Better to get out after collecting a big fat bonus and leave it to the locals to sort out, after all they have been well trained.

Well and truely a third world airline now folks.

[luftmaj]

Interesting readin material folks. I was wondering why they started inviting Regional pilots suddenly. I know every airline has its problems, but I find it interesting that they don't even bother to provide transportation on their own airplanes to the interview!

[Marooned]

At least now they have shown their hand early and we can probably be certain that this is the best they will come up with. We can now compare like with like when looking at other options outside the sandpit. The sad thing is that they are probably tapping themselves on the back thinking what a great package it is which just proves how out of touch they really are. And as for AAR 'reviewing' the other parts of 'the package', remember the last review he did? Nothing changed.

They could, just could have asked US for our opinions in an attempt to come up with something resembling a more constructive package.

I think that this will prove to be own goal for EK.

[fatbus]

And what would you have told them? If you say 30 - 40 %,jump seat and commuting rosters do you think they would listen? No.

I think they are in deep s... and are feeling the market out. This is a process that will take time ,in the mean time , as someone else said, take the raise and wait to see if the plan works and if not more to come or more to leave.

My understanding is courses in Mar are not filled Feb is full - 1 or 2.

Wait to see if the tri/tre's get , not a lot of interest from the 777 pilots to go into training, wonder why.

[Tail Rota]

Hey Guys

Happy New year fellas....

fatbus.... a little sense finally...

I would do exactly the same if it was my company....but as pilots we all know its not going to make a bit of difference to the rate of resignations and the lack of candidates to recruit. They are testing the market.

EK has to do more.....what am I going to do ....well ..... take my payrise in May and all the other payrises we are going to get

If its not enough guys.....just leave and go where the money is better

We are nothing specail......we are all contract pilots, and thats all we are

TR

Thanks for the raise EK

[BigGeordie]

I think they have probably announced this very early to see if it slows down the trickle or flood (depending on who you talk to) of people leaving and produces more applicants. If it doesn't they still have time to "adjust" the utilities and education allowances to try and make the package more attractive. If suddenly they find themselves with more pilots than they know what to do with then there will be nothing else coming.

They can increase the utilities by a huge percentage, which looks and sounds really good to new applicants, without costing the company anything because nobody can actually afford to move out of the company housing.

[Ghostflyer]

Sadly I don't think this is enough to meet the twin needs of retention and recruitment. Its the type of rise that if, you were staying anyway you would be happy with. It makes the EK salary a little more competitive but not really attractive to the sort of guys and gals they want to attract to secure the expansion. For a european F/O the exchange rate still hurts too much and it takes the starting salary in pounds back to where it was 8 years ago before inflation went mad.

The flying pay is set at a relatively modest level and gets the company out of having to pay extra PF contributions. Interestingly the overall quoted change is based on us flying 75hrs/month or 900/year. Wasn't it just last year that the stated aim was to reduce our flying to about 750/year. Personally, I would have preferred just a flat increase.

I wonder what they will do to the trainers and managers? If they do not get an increase that covers not only the loss of flying pay but also the loss of overtime, why would they bother to do it? For guys that have moved out the UA announcement may be critical. We have a few guys that are renting that are getting priced out of the market.

A welcome step in the right direction but it will be interesting to see if it achieves the companies aims; my guess it will not.

[pissedoffpilotek]

This simply shows where pilots stand in the grand scheme of things.

purser 65 dhs per hr
sfs 57 dhs per hr
fg1 48 dhs per hr
capt 45 dhs per hr
g1 40 dhs per hr
fo 35 dhs per hr.


i guess we are not valued that highly then!

[HundredPercentPlease]

I am an SFO at a UK LCC, very soon to get my command. I am under a lot of pressure to go to EK from the other half, I have family in Dubai, and I wouldn't mind myself really.

So I've been watching these threads with interest. I'd take a significant cut to leave here as an FO, and a massive cut once I get the command. Sadly (for the boss), a few % is nothing like enough to make me even think about applying. Shame, because a few years ago it looked like a good option.

[uplock]

It’s better than no increase.

As others have mentioned it does acknowledge that yes there is a problem with our salary package Terms and Conditions, hence the early news.

Why all the back slapping and rhetoric in the first couple of paragraphs of the company letter. Read like the opening inaugural speech of a politician accepting office rather than getting to the nuts and bolts.

We remain comitted to the continuous review of our employment terms and renumeration package with the objective of enhancing any employee benifits to be fair and reasonable. As all ways we are keen to ensure that our overall compensation package remains competitive, and in particular we remain cognizant of recent increases in the cost of living in Dubai. Additionally the company during this review has taken into consideration and recognises the significant impact of your commitmant and personal effort to support the operational demands.

I’m more interested in what the Utility Allowance will increase given that Accommodation has been one of the most topical subjects if you do pay rent in Dubai.

The reality to date so far with the company when they “Review” the Utility Allowance….has been one big disappointment year after year and bears no resemblance at all to what the Real World Dubai Rental Prices for a Villa are at present.


What’s the bet they will factor in the Rental Cap?

What needs to be done is to increase the base level for the Utility Allowance to at least bring in line with what it would cost TODAY to rent a 3 bedroom Villa , pay for Water and Electricity and the 5 % Dubai Municipality Tax

Wishful thinking given the humongus increase in Rent 2005/2006 and all we received was a 10 % increase in the Utilities Allowance. But get real guys these are not recent increases in the cost of living in Dubai

[7x7]

purser 65 dhs per hr
sfs 57 dhs per hr
fg1 48 dhs per hr
capt 45 dhs per hr
g1 40 dhs per hr
fo 35 dhs per hr.

Pretty well says it all, I think – and you be damned certain these figures won’t be lost on a few people in the IFS department who already think they’re totally in command of everything aft of the cockpit door.

A long time ago in EK there was a boss whose one reply to any complaint from one of his pilots was: “If yer don’t fookin’ loike it, oi’ll droive yer to the fookin’ airport meself.”

I wonder if that offer still holds? If it does, I suspect it’ll save me quite a few people a cab fare about three months from now.

[airbus757]

Originally Posted by pissedoffpilotek

This simply shows
purser 65 dhs per hr
sfs 57 dhs per hr
fg1 48 dhs per hr
capt 45 dhs per hr
g1 40 dhs per hr
fo 35 dhs per hr.

this is not a good representation as a pilots base pay is significantly higher. Me thinks you are comparing apples to oranges.

7

[southflyer]

Not enough....
Utilities allowance for F/O: AED 114000 per year
1 Bedroom apartment at The Greens: (Gulf News Classifieds)
Greens ? Arno, 1 B/R, 817 sq.ft., 1st floor, AED 95,000/-. Contact XXXX , for viewing, at XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greens ? ARNO, 2 B/R, 1,723 sq.ft., ground floor, with lake / garden view. AED 140,000/-. Contact XXXX , for viewing at --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greens, 1 B/R flat, for rent, AED 90,000/-; Al Samar 3, with all facilities, 24 hours security, swimming pool etc. Please contact: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greens, 1 B/R flat, with C.A/C free, equipped kitchen, s/pool, gym, 24 hours security & maintenance free, car parking. Rent 90K
So, AED 90000 rent, 5% tax and 5% broker commission plus utilities.... guess the company allowance only gets me a one bedroom flat today..., that is, if the landlord does not increase my rent the 7% or more...

[Saltaire]

Now remember fellas, this flight pay constitutes a small percentage of our salary while with the cabin crew it makes up close to half. Have to call o on that one.

It is a watershed increase? No. Keep those from detesting this place to stay for another few years. Likely not. Initiate massive recruitment interest? Questionable

No doubt a huge concern for recruitment announcing this early. Someone is very concerned about manning the airplanes going forward and especially in 2008/9. How many deliveries that year?

It is some fancy bean counting and you have to give kudos to someone for thinking this through. Mitigate PF and PS, yet find a way to make it look like a big increase. Bean counting gold star

[yankee22]

Sorry if I sound a little confused......

But i'm still a little uncertain of how this hourly thing works.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I get my monthly base of approx 20800 dhs as an FO. As well, for every hour up to 75 hrs, I also get a 35dhs/hr override on top of the fixed based salary.

Is that what I understand to be true.

I'm not that smart.... hoping someone can cut through he crap and put it in lamen terms.

Thx guys.

[Alby Mangel]

Originally Posted by HundredPercentPlease

I am an SFO at a UK LCC, very soon to get my command. I am under a lot of pressure to go to EK from the other half, I have family in Dubai, and I wouldn't mind myself really.

So I've been watching these threads with interest. I'd take a significant cut to leave here as an FO, and a massive cut once I get the command. Sadly (for the boss), a few % is nothing like enough to make me even think about applying. Shame, because a few years ago it looked like a good option.

Hi HundredPercentPlease,

in Dec 06 you posted stating you took home 3050 pounds per month at Easyjet. Based on the new payscale, an F/O in EK will get a basic salary of 20840 dhs per month. If you fly 50 hours per month, which i think is realistic, you get an additional 1750 dhs. This gives a total of 22590 dhs per month, which equates to 3137 UK pounds based on an exchange rate of 7.2.

Hope this helps in the decision.

[kingpost]

Originally Posted by Saltaire;

Now remember fellas, this flight pay constitutes a small percentage of our salary while with the cabin crew it makes up close to half. Have to call o on that one.

Time to smell the roses, this is just the start. Yes, with flight deck it makes up a small percentage but this is the start introduce this "Low cost system" as your provident fund and other benefits are dependant on your basic salary.

Next year don't be surprised if you earn what an SFS earns per hour. You'll get a smaller increase on your basic however your pay per hour will be great, well sort of.....hence a lower contribution from the company into your fund.

I predict this is the start of the oozing of the open wound, next is the amputation!!

[jinglied]

Pay raise? Not every block month

As I see it, a significant part of this is flight pay, i.e., hours actually flown in any particular month. So....any month that you have vacation will be a PAY CUT. Not only do we get zero credit for vacation, but now they will reduce our paycheque every month that has vacation.

And... there is approximately SIX MONTHS before we see this money/condition improvement, as the first money will show up end of June. What will be the increase in cost of living in that time??

Not applicable to Provident fund...that is gonna hurt!!!

Not a great deal.

Jinglie'd

[donpizmeov]

100percentplease,

Stay where you are . Take the promotion. Send the Mrs to the family in DXB for holidays and enjoy the extra cash. In three years time, if you are still interested, you can join as a DEC. Whereas if you join now as a FO you will still be in the RHS.

100 aeroplanes now, 152 in 2010. 1600 pilots now, so 800 FOs need to upgrade before you, as well as the DECs that join. Even if it was 10 crews per airplane (which is what our ULH ones are said to be crewed at), you will still have at least 280 FOs in front of you in 4 years time, and that is not including any joining DECs. It also does not include any Captains leaving that need to be replaced, but you get the picture.

Does anyone know how much of long range Eds or TCASs salary is not included in the provident fund, increment increases and profit share calculations?

Dont get too carried away about the utility and schooling allowance review. This is just the same thing that happens every year (as is the pay review). But normally the are not so vocal about it. Last year the rent cap was 15% and the allowance went up by 10%, this year the rent cap is 7%, so wait and see. The schooling allowance is reviewed every year and adjusted in July.

Don

[donpizmeov]

Its just the way it is Mutts. The last of the FOs that were badly disadvantaged by the DEC thing are to start a course in the next few months. The other guys joined knowing that DECs were part of the picture.
Not saying I agree or disagree with it, but that is how the cookie is crumbling.

Don