View Poll Results: EK Guys - would you work a day off?
Sure I would
38
19.19%
Who me? I don't even answer the phone
158
79.80%
I'd work if 4HP asked me to
2
1.01%
Voters: 198. This poll is closed
Working a day off in EK
Join Date: Feb 2000
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IXNAT,
The good news for EK is that US managers are starting to come here with comments like:
We'll all be saved.........it will be just like WWII over again.
The good news for EK is that US managers are starting to come here with comments like:
Why would you ever do it that way, at US Air (United)(Delta)(Et al) we did it this way.......
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Yep, we sure will be. In fact EK has now officially changed it's name to 'Eagle Squadron' and our callsign is now 'Eagle.'
Conspiracy theory No. 348: Do you think that the Upper Management knew about the American invasion a long time ago? Otherwise why change all Management titles to VP, SVP. EVP etc...?
Conspiracy theory No. 348: Do you think that the Upper Management knew about the American invasion a long time ago? Otherwise why change all Management titles to VP, SVP. EVP etc...?
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Originally Posted by SecurID
Yep, we sure will be. In fact EK has now officially changed it's name to 'Eagle Squadron' and our callsign is now 'Eagle.'
Conspiracy theory No. 348: Do you think that the Upper Management knew about the American invasion a long time ago? Otherwise why change all Management titles to VP, SVP. EVP etc...?
Conspiracy theory No. 348: Do you think that the Upper Management knew about the American invasion a long time ago? Otherwise why change all Management titles to VP, SVP. EVP etc...?
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Fun With Overtime Numbers
Haven't had a chance to post for a while but thought I would give my 2 cents worth on the issue of working days off.
Personally I have not flown a single day off or allowed rostering to make a single change to my roster in over 2 years. Part of the reason is the bull$hit "cost neutral" changes to the terms and conditions of our contract along with insufficient compensation for the industry leading productivity (and profits) we provide to this company; part is my disgust for how the management have totally dropped the ball on pilot career management within EK (f/o upgrades, DEC's, seniority, etc); part is a recognition that the current situation we are in with respect to pilot manning levels was planned at the highest levels and they are now expecting us to cover up for their incompetence; and part is nothing more than a survival instinct in that if I have to be with this organization for "x" number of years I need to pace myself to not become another EK medical statistic.
For the life of me I have a really hard time understanding why guys would give up a day off for the pittance the company gives you. Perhaps those who are blinded by the "incredible" amount of money the company offers will be interested in this:
The total amount of flying you are contracted to complete in a given year is 815 hours/year. This is derived as follows:
-7 months x 78 hours/month (546 hours), 4 months x 76 hours/month (304 hours), and 1 month x 70 hours/month (70 hours) = 920 hours/year. Subtract your contractual leave of 42 days x 2.5 hours/day (105 hours) and you are left with a contractual requirement to fly 815 hours/year.
Now take an example of a Captain (step 17; approx 7 years at EK) making 29510/month (all math based upon the old scales). His yearly salary is 354120 dhs. If you do the math the contractual hourly rate is 434.50 dhs/hour. Given this number it is absolutely no surprise that the company has decided to work each pilot into as much overtime as possible (up to the max of 900 hours if possible) because it costs them peanuts. At an overtime rate of 400 dhs/hour this pilot is working for 34.50 dhs/hour ($9.38/hour) above his contractual hourly rate. My son working part time at MacDonald’s on weekends makes almost as much as I do working overtime for this company! Any wonder why I refuse to do it?
We know that in the past the company would build a roster to the contractual limit (78/76/70 hours/month) and then rely on crew scheduling to fill the unassigned flying via phone calls to pilots requesting them to work overtime on days off. When that started to prove unsuccessful, they switched to compulsory overtime built into every roster. However even with this change there still is unassigned flights daily.
As a consequence of the mismanagement of the manning levels, the new plan is for Capt. Ed to email us with the unassigned flights and hope we will fall over ourselves volunteering to fly them? But wait, didn't they increase the overtime by 15.4%? Shouldn't I be speed dialing crew scheduling to get those juicy overtime hours on my day off?? Oh good, now I can do some new math with the new numbers. Same Captain now makes 7% more with the pay rise (31575/month or 378900/year). Divided by 815 = 464.90/hour. New overtime rate 460/hour............lets see.....now I get to go and work overtime on my day off and I am getting 4.90 dhs LESS than my contractual rate.
Bottom line is I refuse to work days off under this sort of scheme. If Capt Ed wants to pay me what my son gets for working overtime at MacDonald’s (time and a half; double time on statutory holidays) then I might consider it. Until then I will leave it to the suckers in this company to further prostitute themselves in the belief that the greater good of Emirates is worth their health, marriages and families.
Cheers
Personally I have not flown a single day off or allowed rostering to make a single change to my roster in over 2 years. Part of the reason is the bull$hit "cost neutral" changes to the terms and conditions of our contract along with insufficient compensation for the industry leading productivity (and profits) we provide to this company; part is my disgust for how the management have totally dropped the ball on pilot career management within EK (f/o upgrades, DEC's, seniority, etc); part is a recognition that the current situation we are in with respect to pilot manning levels was planned at the highest levels and they are now expecting us to cover up for their incompetence; and part is nothing more than a survival instinct in that if I have to be with this organization for "x" number of years I need to pace myself to not become another EK medical statistic.
For the life of me I have a really hard time understanding why guys would give up a day off for the pittance the company gives you. Perhaps those who are blinded by the "incredible" amount of money the company offers will be interested in this:
The total amount of flying you are contracted to complete in a given year is 815 hours/year. This is derived as follows:
-7 months x 78 hours/month (546 hours), 4 months x 76 hours/month (304 hours), and 1 month x 70 hours/month (70 hours) = 920 hours/year. Subtract your contractual leave of 42 days x 2.5 hours/day (105 hours) and you are left with a contractual requirement to fly 815 hours/year.
Now take an example of a Captain (step 17; approx 7 years at EK) making 29510/month (all math based upon the old scales). His yearly salary is 354120 dhs. If you do the math the contractual hourly rate is 434.50 dhs/hour. Given this number it is absolutely no surprise that the company has decided to work each pilot into as much overtime as possible (up to the max of 900 hours if possible) because it costs them peanuts. At an overtime rate of 400 dhs/hour this pilot is working for 34.50 dhs/hour ($9.38/hour) above his contractual hourly rate. My son working part time at MacDonald’s on weekends makes almost as much as I do working overtime for this company! Any wonder why I refuse to do it?
We know that in the past the company would build a roster to the contractual limit (78/76/70 hours/month) and then rely on crew scheduling to fill the unassigned flying via phone calls to pilots requesting them to work overtime on days off. When that started to prove unsuccessful, they switched to compulsory overtime built into every roster. However even with this change there still is unassigned flights daily.
As a consequence of the mismanagement of the manning levels, the new plan is for Capt. Ed to email us with the unassigned flights and hope we will fall over ourselves volunteering to fly them? But wait, didn't they increase the overtime by 15.4%? Shouldn't I be speed dialing crew scheduling to get those juicy overtime hours on my day off?? Oh good, now I can do some new math with the new numbers. Same Captain now makes 7% more with the pay rise (31575/month or 378900/year). Divided by 815 = 464.90/hour. New overtime rate 460/hour............lets see.....now I get to go and work overtime on my day off and I am getting 4.90 dhs LESS than my contractual rate.
Bottom line is I refuse to work days off under this sort of scheme. If Capt Ed wants to pay me what my son gets for working overtime at MacDonald’s (time and a half; double time on statutory holidays) then I might consider it. Until then I will leave it to the suckers in this company to further prostitute themselves in the belief that the greater good of Emirates is worth their health, marriages and families.
Cheers
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Spot on Dune and of course your hourly rate does not take into account the company contribution on our basic, which means we are getting even more shafted on our 0/T rate.
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are you saying that no matter what you would never work on a day off.
how about if you make a deal!
eg...jfk for ccu, cmb, ruh, and dam....guess what you also end up with 7 days off after the jfk flight. I will only do it if it suits me...but that is a far better deal. I would never pick up the **** i have traded in though...that is definitely not worth it.
It is not always about helping them out but looking after no 1
how about if you make a deal!
eg...jfk for ccu, cmb, ruh, and dam....guess what you also end up with 7 days off after the jfk flight. I will only do it if it suits me...but that is a far better deal. I would never pick up the **** i have traded in though...that is definitely not worth it.
It is not always about helping them out but looking after no 1
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Dune
Further to your post, if you look at our senior captains, some of who have been here 17 years, the overtime pay is a paltry fraction of their contracted rate. I agree with you completely. Until they come up with a proper overtime rate that is transparent and tied to our contractual rate, they can bash it.
Pissedoffpilotek
You do whatever you have to do, but dont fool yourself into thinking you are having a win by doing that.
Do you think it is a coincidence that you get offered a JFK and swap it with a ccu etc?
Of course it isn't.
Scheduling know they arent going to get someone to go to CCU on a day off, so they give a JFK or similar to the guy on his day off while the CCU you traded gets thrown at some poor bastard on reserve. So when next you are on reserve and get called to go to Hyderabad at 2am,think of your mate who has swapped it for a JFK.
Pissedoffpilotek
You do whatever you have to do, but dont fool yourself into thinking you are having a win by doing that.
Do you think it is a coincidence that you get offered a JFK and swap it with a ccu etc?
Of course it isn't.
Scheduling know they arent going to get someone to go to CCU on a day off, so they give a JFK or similar to the guy on his day off while the CCU you traded gets thrown at some poor bastard on reserve. So when next you are on reserve and get called to go to Hyderabad at 2am,think of your mate who has swapped it for a JFK.
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pissedoffpilotek:
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying and I have not done so in over 2 years. And I might add not doing so has afforded me a relatively good career here to date with minimal stress. I do my roster and work to the terms of my contract and nothing more/nothing less.
I don't make deals. My feeling is that ultimately my "deal" is just covering up the endemic problems systematically generated by the management of this company. I want no part in trying to hide their serious misjudgments.
If this airline was run as it should be there would be no need for these "deals" currently being offered by crew scheduling. Taking these "deals" ultimately leads to covering up the truth and nothing will be done to address the manning issues until someone takes a fall (starting with C.P.,VP-NC&L).
In my opinion those who work days off or "deal" trips are contributing to the rot that pervades this airline. You may think you are helping yourself short term but I can assure you long term you are doing nothing to improve your T & C's over the long run. With this sort of "prostitution" the true problems will be with us forever.
Just my opinion.
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying and I have not done so in over 2 years. And I might add not doing so has afforded me a relatively good career here to date with minimal stress. I do my roster and work to the terms of my contract and nothing more/nothing less.
I don't make deals. My feeling is that ultimately my "deal" is just covering up the endemic problems systematically generated by the management of this company. I want no part in trying to hide their serious misjudgments.
If this airline was run as it should be there would be no need for these "deals" currently being offered by crew scheduling. Taking these "deals" ultimately leads to covering up the truth and nothing will be done to address the manning issues until someone takes a fall (starting with C.P.,VP-NC&L).
In my opinion those who work days off or "deal" trips are contributing to the rot that pervades this airline. You may think you are helping yourself short term but I can assure you long term you are doing nothing to improve your T & C's over the long run. With this sort of "prostitution" the true problems will be with us forever.
Just my opinion.
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I hear what you guys are saying about making deals or flying on days off. I don't have any spare days off to legally go flying and when rostered to 97.5 hours like I am this month, there is not much room for manouevre.
However, as far as off day pay and overtime rate goes, it is a insult. Pay me my hourly rate from total cost of employment and I may think about it, if I ever have the hours or days off to spare.
However, as far as off day pay and overtime rate goes, it is a insult. Pay me my hourly rate from total cost of employment and I may think about it, if I ever have the hours or days off to spare.
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Dune and Vorsicht,
I am with you on this one, the biggest change I have noticed in my time at EK is the lack of time off. I'm not going to give a day up for 460AED/hr. I'm getting old, flying more just makes me older and even copious amounts of alcohol don't give me a full head of hair and a 10" ----.
Pissedoffpilotek,
Look after yourself! You have to accept that sh1t will flow downwards and every 5 months you are at the bottom of the hill! I won't be helping you out, you'll be on your own. 'As much as you gain, you still get the pain!' (Copyright Schnowzer 2006)
I am with you on this one, the biggest change I have noticed in my time at EK is the lack of time off. I'm not going to give a day up for 460AED/hr. I'm getting old, flying more just makes me older and even copious amounts of alcohol don't give me a full head of hair and a 10" ----.
Pissedoffpilotek,
Look after yourself! You have to accept that sh1t will flow downwards and every 5 months you are at the bottom of the hill! I won't be helping you out, you'll be on your own. 'As much as you gain, you still get the pain!' (Copyright Schnowzer 2006)
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You suckers are completely missing the point. Swap a CMB for a JFK? You arseh#$%s have already volunteered to give up two of your days off and go down to the World Trade center and get in line WITHOUT PAY to get a US visa just so you can go to NY! Yes WITHOUT PAY and now you want to work a day off again? This airline does not have a chance of ever getting anything decesnt with such asteemed pilots leading it. Get Real people!
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Geez, LHR you have a way with words don't you. Bet you are a bundle of fun to fly with. My US visa with my previous company was acceptable and I did not have to go anywhere on my days off to get it renewed/revalidated. Would I do a JFK in preference to some awful trip if offerred, hell yes. Would they get a hold of me- no chance my mobile is switched off on days off and I have no land line. Hehe, chill
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actually guys it was four **** trips for one...same number of hours so no overtime involved...just gave me a block of seven days off. plus got rid off three extra nights out of bed...so i ended up with more days off and less nights out of bed....
As was said earlier on this thread, the deal's made with crew scheduling have a serious knock-on effect.
The more deals done - the less stable your rosters will be.
The more you look after #1 the more you will get shafted by the all the other #1's out there.
Have a beer for breakfast each day off if it makes your decision making easier
halas
The more deals done - the less stable your rosters will be.
The more you look after #1 the more you will get shafted by the all the other #1's out there.
Have a beer for breakfast each day off if it makes your decision making easier
halas
Last edited by halas; 22nd May 2006 at 05:24.
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Roster Change
No, since my decision to cease working days off or allowing my roster to be screwed with I have not asked them for any favours and and I will not.
It is a matter of principle that I'd like to think some of us in this company still have. I leave the prostituting of ethics to others (you can see who they are in this thread).
No, since my decision to cease working days off or allowing my roster to be screwed with I have not asked them for any favours and and I will not.
It is a matter of principle that I'd like to think some of us in this company still have. I leave the prostituting of ethics to others (you can see who they are in this thread).
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Hey guys, just a quick question!
I infer that those not answering the phone are all in the Left Hand Seat.
Do you think that not "going the extra yard" by answering the phone on days off will impact unfavourably on those F/O's yet to upgrade!
Just asking because I know that in previous companies I've worked for that these are the sorts of statistics that are looked at when "command readiness" criteria are considered.
I infer that those not answering the phone are all in the Left Hand Seat.
Do you think that not "going the extra yard" by answering the phone on days off will impact unfavourably on those F/O's yet to upgrade!
Just asking because I know that in previous companies I've worked for that these are the sorts of statistics that are looked at when "command readiness" criteria are considered.
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I'm reading your posts from down the paradise island of AUH, knowing that, what's happening to you all now, will soon spread down there, and I must say it worries me.
EY rosters are already as stable as HR guys to be trusted.... Days OFF are not a problem yet, people are fighting to get flights, as the average flying is 50 hours monthly.
Anyway, I do agree with the NO TRADE policy a few of you are defending. If they offer to trade JFK for a series of s***t flights, no doubt that the deal is on their side and not in our favor.
Stand Tall, boomerang is coming back.....................quickly !!
I wish I will be there to see all the ME carriers competing for the number of stainless steel flying devices stucked under the sand.....
EY rosters are already as stable as HR guys to be trusted.... Days OFF are not a problem yet, people are fighting to get flights, as the average flying is 50 hours monthly.
Anyway, I do agree with the NO TRADE policy a few of you are defending. If they offer to trade JFK for a series of s***t flights, no doubt that the deal is on their side and not in our favor.
Stand Tall, boomerang is coming back.....................quickly !!
I wish I will be there to see all the ME carriers competing for the number of stainless steel flying devices stucked under the sand.....
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ennui
Absolutely not. There are plenty of F/O's who will not work days off and to be honest, I think crewing are far too busy to start keeping records of who is and who isn't. This is a big Company now and unlike some smaller operators where this practice is common, here it's not.
Many more Pilots would work a day off if the rewards matched the sacrifice but until we start getting a 'going' rate of around 2-3000 dhs, many guys will continue to spend their few days off with the family.
Absolutely not. There are plenty of F/O's who will not work days off and to be honest, I think crewing are far too busy to start keeping records of who is and who isn't. This is a big Company now and unlike some smaller operators where this practice is common, here it's not.
Many more Pilots would work a day off if the rewards matched the sacrifice but until we start getting a 'going' rate of around 2-3000 dhs, many guys will continue to spend their few days off with the family.