View Poll Results: EK Guys - would you work a day off?
Sure I would
38
19.19%
Who me? I don't even answer the phone
158
79.80%
I'd work if 4HP asked me to
2
1.01%
Voters: 198. This poll is closed
Working a day off in EK
Join Date: May 2004
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Erm,Vagrant and DK.
Its because of people like you,and your attitudes of servitude,that we are in the situation,we are in collectively as pilots in EK and the industry in general.
i e. Put up or shut up.
Are you management wanabees?????
Dune,nicely put,did u get the PM?
10 Rec pilot team resigs,as of today,perhaps Vagrant and DK will take up the slack.
QB
Its because of people like you,and your attitudes of servitude,that we are in the situation,we are in collectively as pilots in EK and the industry in general.
i e. Put up or shut up.
Are you management wanabees?????
Dune,nicely put,did u get the PM?
10 Rec pilot team resigs,as of today,perhaps Vagrant and DK will take up the slack.
QB
Join Date: Jun 2004
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DF,
If you have such a great job in the UK why do you hover around the Middle East forum? There is more to you than meets the eye but like BFD; who cares...
As for the issues of unity, a quick scan will see that a great deal of the 'disunited' posts are not from pilots and those that do have a different take on events at EK are generally appreciated for their right of opinion.
Putting together a list of the changes in T&Cs at EK over the last 5 years in an attempt to dessiminate the 'facts' that Dune refers to in his well put post...any help appreciated.
If you have such a great job in the UK why do you hover around the Middle East forum? There is more to you than meets the eye but like BFD; who cares...
As for the issues of unity, a quick scan will see that a great deal of the 'disunited' posts are not from pilots and those that do have a different take on events at EK are generally appreciated for their right of opinion.
Putting together a list of the changes in T&Cs at EK over the last 5 years in an attempt to dessiminate the 'facts' that Dune refers to in his well put post...any help appreciated.
Join Date: Jul 2002
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SecurID
Get a grip on yourself. Even though I have crossed swords with Pontius in the past he was merely poking fun quite harmlessly over the "mistake " made by Pinkie. Hardly a personal attack IMHO and not worthy of your high handed response.
Get a grip on yourself. Even though I have crossed swords with Pontius in the past he was merely poking fun quite harmlessly over the "mistake " made by Pinkie. Hardly a personal attack IMHO and not worthy of your high handed response.
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CrazyCanuc
In all fairness I inform you that I have reported you to the moderator for the following remark
If it wasn't for people like the canadians you would be speaking german. pal. Have some respect.
That was uncalled for. There is no debt of gratitude to be payed. A war was fought in Europe 60 years ago, to avoid to have to fight it in Canada later. You thereby avoided millions of civilian casualities.
Just to set the record straight.
And to think you fly for a multicultural airline. Shame
In all fairness I inform you that I have reported you to the moderator for the following remark
If it wasn't for people like the canadians you would be speaking german. pal. Have some respect.
That was uncalled for. There is no debt of gratitude to be payed. A war was fought in Europe 60 years ago, to avoid to have to fight it in Canada later. You thereby avoided millions of civilian casualities.
Just to set the record straight.
And to think you fly for a multicultural airline. Shame
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dungfunnel
I thought you'd given up on this 'Emirates bashing' months ago but you just love winding us all up eh? We'll miss you posts greatly while you're away on holiday, spending your huge wad of cash generated from a spot of day off working.You've said in the past that you turned E.K down as it wasn't for you but your constant presence on this forum dictates to me otherwise. Like a spoilt child,you try to show that your toys are either worth more or are newer than the other childrens and find it a source of amusement to knock our day off rate.I don't rub YOUR face in it that as a charter pilot you have to eat that cottage pie slop with a plastic knife and fork while we get to choose from all 7 courses in first class,served with the finest irish linen. The point is that there is always some good and some bad in every Company and we are all aware,mostly,of what they are,until that is,Companies start changing the goalposts without consultation. Hence the reason for this particular forum.I do,however,agree that the sum offered to us for working a day off is a complete joke.Unskilled Workers in the Uk could pick up the same amount for a days decorating! We don't even get the day off back so i hope that all and i mean ALL pilots in Emirates should say no so the message gets across.The correct number and ratio of Captains and F/O's is what we want....and laptops for our CD ammendments please!
Finally,before your next posting,think carefully before knocking Dubai's employmet laws.Perfect they are not,but Dubai does provide a huge amount of jobs and money ( not Ł400 /day)For hundreds of thousands of people,which in turn support many thousands of families back in their own Countries.Most of their own Countries are either too poor or corrupt to care otherwise.I'm sure that if you're that concerned by the slave labour here in Dubai,donating a few days off payment to a few well deserving maids and construction workers would be greatly appreciated.Now you've got something to "get out of bed " for! I would,however,save those payments for when you need to give them back to your generous government in the form of increased taxes.You see,with the 160,000 new immigrants that arrived last month alone from the new EU Countries,something tells me you're going to need every penny you've got!
Speak to you soon no doubt.....off to the beach for a free holiday
I thought you'd given up on this 'Emirates bashing' months ago but you just love winding us all up eh? We'll miss you posts greatly while you're away on holiday, spending your huge wad of cash generated from a spot of day off working.You've said in the past that you turned E.K down as it wasn't for you but your constant presence on this forum dictates to me otherwise. Like a spoilt child,you try to show that your toys are either worth more or are newer than the other childrens and find it a source of amusement to knock our day off rate.I don't rub YOUR face in it that as a charter pilot you have to eat that cottage pie slop with a plastic knife and fork while we get to choose from all 7 courses in first class,served with the finest irish linen. The point is that there is always some good and some bad in every Company and we are all aware,mostly,of what they are,until that is,Companies start changing the goalposts without consultation. Hence the reason for this particular forum.I do,however,agree that the sum offered to us for working a day off is a complete joke.Unskilled Workers in the Uk could pick up the same amount for a days decorating! We don't even get the day off back so i hope that all and i mean ALL pilots in Emirates should say no so the message gets across.The correct number and ratio of Captains and F/O's is what we want....and laptops for our CD ammendments please!
Finally,before your next posting,think carefully before knocking Dubai's employmet laws.Perfect they are not,but Dubai does provide a huge amount of jobs and money ( not Ł400 /day)For hundreds of thousands of people,which in turn support many thousands of families back in their own Countries.Most of their own Countries are either too poor or corrupt to care otherwise.I'm sure that if you're that concerned by the slave labour here in Dubai,donating a few days off payment to a few well deserving maids and construction workers would be greatly appreciated.Now you've got something to "get out of bed " for! I would,however,save those payments for when you need to give them back to your generous government in the form of increased taxes.You see,with the 160,000 new immigrants that arrived last month alone from the new EU Countries,something tells me you're going to need every penny you've got!
Speak to you soon no doubt.....off to the beach for a free holiday
this is starting to sound like the fragrant harbour forum a few years back!!
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In regards to my previous posts, yes, I have made flippant remarks and generalizations about the Pilot fraternity. But, if I were to search this forum, how many instances would I find of similar treatment of other groups of professionals such as Journalists, Accountants, Managers, Security, Cabin Crew, Passengers, etc, etc? Whilst it does not excuse any offence caused by my comments, I hardly think others in these forums are entitled to claim the moral high ground!
Correct spelling and grammar do not make an argument any more valid than spelling mistakes make an argument invalid. Lord knows, if that was the criteria to post in these forums then there would be very few posts that would qualify.
There has been a suggestion that I suffer from a “pilot dislike”, this is simply not the case. I have immense respect for many of the Pilots I have worked with, they are in many cases, extremely talented and committed co workers. Respect though, is something that is earned; it is not something that comes with a job title or position.
As Dune states, “Pilots deal with facts” and like to maintain “situational awareness”. It appears to me that perhaps this was not applied (by some in this forum) to the thought process when deciding to join Emirates. It should be clear to all that when you join a Middle East Airline as an expatriate that your T&Cs may be changed with very little recourse. You are likely to see Nationals promoted to positions of Management that may be beyond their experience levels. You are likely to have to train a National to take your job one day. It has been that way in this region for many decades so should come as no surprise to anyone who did any research prior to accepting a position here.
Responsible Management of any company in any indusrty (that hopes to continue to be profitable) must react to changing market conditions, control costs and increase productivity. It should be obvious to all by looking at the current demise of numerous US carriers as to what happens if you try and expand without ensuring you do this.
Instead of suggesting methods that will actually add to the Airlines current problems, why not put your collective talents to work by making suggestions as to how these cost savings and efficiencies in productivity can be achieved in a way that would be acceptable to all sides. So far I have read nothing as to how you think this should be done, remembering that status quo is really not an option in a competitive environment – unless, of course, you are keen to see eventual contraction and job losses.
Since you all seem fairly confident that EK management will be reading this thread (and you suggest that this is the only place you can address them) then post your alternate solutions here.
If you are being given illegal rosters then your course of action is easy, if not, then how do they compare to the rest of the industry in general? I would be interested to know.
CF,
Are you saying there are no labour laws in the UAE or that they are not legal??!
I am sure that this will come as big shock to many companies who have ben operating under the UAE Labour Laws!
Correct spelling and grammar do not make an argument any more valid than spelling mistakes make an argument invalid. Lord knows, if that was the criteria to post in these forums then there would be very few posts that would qualify.
There has been a suggestion that I suffer from a “pilot dislike”, this is simply not the case. I have immense respect for many of the Pilots I have worked with, they are in many cases, extremely talented and committed co workers. Respect though, is something that is earned; it is not something that comes with a job title or position.
As Dune states, “Pilots deal with facts” and like to maintain “situational awareness”. It appears to me that perhaps this was not applied (by some in this forum) to the thought process when deciding to join Emirates. It should be clear to all that when you join a Middle East Airline as an expatriate that your T&Cs may be changed with very little recourse. You are likely to see Nationals promoted to positions of Management that may be beyond their experience levels. You are likely to have to train a National to take your job one day. It has been that way in this region for many decades so should come as no surprise to anyone who did any research prior to accepting a position here.
Responsible Management of any company in any indusrty (that hopes to continue to be profitable) must react to changing market conditions, control costs and increase productivity. It should be obvious to all by looking at the current demise of numerous US carriers as to what happens if you try and expand without ensuring you do this.
Instead of suggesting methods that will actually add to the Airlines current problems, why not put your collective talents to work by making suggestions as to how these cost savings and efficiencies in productivity can be achieved in a way that would be acceptable to all sides. So far I have read nothing as to how you think this should be done, remembering that status quo is really not an option in a competitive environment – unless, of course, you are keen to see eventual contraction and job losses.
Since you all seem fairly confident that EK management will be reading this thread (and you suggest that this is the only place you can address them) then post your alternate solutions here.
If you are being given illegal rosters then your course of action is easy, if not, then how do they compare to the rest of the industry in general? I would be interested to know.
CF,
By the way, when they change the contract from its original, and since there are no legal labour laws in Dubai, you are bound by your home country laws, so you are protected when it comes time to go to court...
I am sure that this will come as big shock to many companies who have ben operating under the UAE Labour Laws!
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Perhaps we should get back to the point of this thread and the adverse effect that these changes in combination with previous 'T&C ammendments' will make to our lives once fully implimented.
This is a serious issue and I hope we can avoid being side tracked and keep focused.
This is a serious issue and I hope we can avoid being side tracked and keep focused.
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Can anyone tell why it seems that there is a simmering dislike of things Canadian here? I seem to see lots of off the cuff remarks directed towards our Canadian "brothers" in this thread, what gives guys? Enquiring minds need to know...
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Changes!?
Start another thread about Canadians, Australians etc....
We should be receiving a revised FCN with "positive"changes any day now! I do not have any details about the changes.
Hope it's good.
Check your Six
We should be receiving a revised FCN with "positive"changes any day now! I do not have any details about the changes.
Hope it's good.
Check your Six
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Let's get back on track. If you are feeling picked on because of your nationality or religion, start another thread.
The situation at EK has taken a major negative turn with this latest FCN. 15 years ago the salary was good because of all the uncertainties in the area. The UAE is pushing hard to be one of the brotherhood of major civilizations and has done well, therefore our salary has not gone up. This latest FCN has only proved how far behind any first world nation they actually are. How they envisage keeping recruitment going at the standard and rate required is beyond me, and I can only see a slide downwards.
The door is open for negative changes and if any of my mates wanted to join I would be hesitant in recommending EK.
Morale is a fragile thing and it would have taken nothing to leave it at the low point it was. This change has ripped the bottom out of it as far as I can see and the next few months will be the proof of that. It is unbelievable that this is not obvious.
As a footnote, I would like to state that I enjoy my job and love what I do, but that when it comes to long term security, I am concerned with where EK is headed. This concern in the environment we work in can only change the future as I see it. If EK truly wants to be a global player, then it cannot afford to rely on short term staff as the majority of my friends and I now see ourselves.
The situation at EK has taken a major negative turn with this latest FCN. 15 years ago the salary was good because of all the uncertainties in the area. The UAE is pushing hard to be one of the brotherhood of major civilizations and has done well, therefore our salary has not gone up. This latest FCN has only proved how far behind any first world nation they actually are. How they envisage keeping recruitment going at the standard and rate required is beyond me, and I can only see a slide downwards.
The door is open for negative changes and if any of my mates wanted to join I would be hesitant in recommending EK.
Morale is a fragile thing and it would have taken nothing to leave it at the low point it was. This change has ripped the bottom out of it as far as I can see and the next few months will be the proof of that. It is unbelievable that this is not obvious.
As a footnote, I would like to state that I enjoy my job and love what I do, but that when it comes to long term security, I am concerned with where EK is headed. This concern in the environment we work in can only change the future as I see it. If EK truly wants to be a global player, then it cannot afford to rely on short term staff as the majority of my friends and I now see ourselves.
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Several points stand out in this new pay change.Firstly,i'd liked to have called it a 'pay deal' but unfortunately the reference to the word 'deal' implies that both managment AND pilots agreed.Sadly
the latter had no say whatsoever in the outcome.Nothing new there then.Having this new imposition has obviously upset many people not least because many see themselves being set up for a pay cut.Not only that,but the possibilities of many more days of manually input stanbys,previously at cost to the Company,now may cost us a few less days off a month.The carrot of Dhs 800 to work on a day off,is quite frankly,an insult to our profession especially as we don't even get that day off back again.( F/O's get even less!).I do agree that awarding 3.5 hrs credit per day of leave is 'unproductive' but what about the rest.How can anyone in their right mind consider deadheading to be unproductive? We save the Company Hotel costs,allowances and we're back at base sooner ready to work again. Some Airlines actually pay MORE for deadheading as it saves them money AND is more productive. Simulators not productive? Fine,please tell the GCAA that the Company has nothing to gain from these pointless sessions so no more sim for me over the next 20yrs or so. Pilot recruitment? Lets leave it to an outside agency to do.No productivity gain using pilots,eh?Erm,Just ask B.A. that one and see what a mess that ended in!As for CRM,we could hardly expect to get credit for something that the Company doesn't follow itself,like COMMUNICATIONS,or SITUATIONAL AWARNESS,or LEADERSHIP SKILLS.
You see,not only do we not get flight pay,unlike most other Majors,We are now expected to save in other areas while the profits increase.Time will tell whether i'm being depressingly pessimistic or just opening my eyes to the cuts that lay ahead.There are,however, things we CAN do. Use Forums like this to inform the aviation community of T & C's. Advise friends not to join if you think it's not in their interest.Or,for those that love to keep qouting that bloody FOM,why don't we report for duty at STD -60 mins.How can we 'Legally' brief the Cabin Crew at STD -70 when we havn't even reported officially?
When i joined here,i felt prouder than i ever have in my carreer.Emirates has the potential to remain one of 'THE' Airlines to work for so come on Managment,don't screw this up.Make us proud and keep us proud.Before you lose us forever!
the latter had no say whatsoever in the outcome.Nothing new there then.Having this new imposition has obviously upset many people not least because many see themselves being set up for a pay cut.Not only that,but the possibilities of many more days of manually input stanbys,previously at cost to the Company,now may cost us a few less days off a month.The carrot of Dhs 800 to work on a day off,is quite frankly,an insult to our profession especially as we don't even get that day off back again.( F/O's get even less!).I do agree that awarding 3.5 hrs credit per day of leave is 'unproductive' but what about the rest.How can anyone in their right mind consider deadheading to be unproductive? We save the Company Hotel costs,allowances and we're back at base sooner ready to work again. Some Airlines actually pay MORE for deadheading as it saves them money AND is more productive. Simulators not productive? Fine,please tell the GCAA that the Company has nothing to gain from these pointless sessions so no more sim for me over the next 20yrs or so. Pilot recruitment? Lets leave it to an outside agency to do.No productivity gain using pilots,eh?Erm,Just ask B.A. that one and see what a mess that ended in!As for CRM,we could hardly expect to get credit for something that the Company doesn't follow itself,like COMMUNICATIONS,or SITUATIONAL AWARNESS,or LEADERSHIP SKILLS.
You see,not only do we not get flight pay,unlike most other Majors,We are now expected to save in other areas while the profits increase.Time will tell whether i'm being depressingly pessimistic or just opening my eyes to the cuts that lay ahead.There are,however, things we CAN do. Use Forums like this to inform the aviation community of T & C's. Advise friends not to join if you think it's not in their interest.Or,for those that love to keep qouting that bloody FOM,why don't we report for duty at STD -60 mins.How can we 'Legally' brief the Cabin Crew at STD -70 when we havn't even reported officially?
When i joined here,i felt prouder than i ever have in my carreer.Emirates has the potential to remain one of 'THE' Airlines to work for so come on Managment,don't screw this up.Make us proud and keep us proud.Before you lose us forever!
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Well, YOU started it! Somewhere up above in this thread a mention of naive "Canadians" was made, and quite without any reason as to what the burr up your A$$ really is with them, so how about it never should have been there at all (don't ya think?) Keep it real.