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Working a day off in EK

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.
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Working a day off in EK

Old 20th Oct 2004, 20:32
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 1
Emirates new pay credits scam

Here we go again bunch of whimps...

6 months ago I came across a lot of angry emirates pilots, now after all that excitation, the sheep are back in the pen, happy to be alive...

Now, here we go again, a new FCN is out wich describes how we're loosing our credit for:
annual leave, reserve, ppc. sep, ground training and any other activity not related to flying.

Watch everybody: moaning and complaining will start again but how long will it last....

and really what does moaning and complaining accomplish?

We can't take any official action because of the laws of the U.A.E so what can we do?

here's what.

Cause delays:

-have maintenace crew explain the ADD page ( sometimes things are vague)
- taxi very slow ( 10 kts max)
- do not take any direct routings
- configure very early, burn that gas baby...
- insure all aspect of the dispatch are explained by the red cap
- Call sick according the FOM policy ( unfit to fly)
- take company fuel and divert as required
- when tankering, take company fuel figures and uplift 200 Kgs in Doha
- don't ever ever ever work on days off ( f*ck the 560 or the 800 Dhs)

Please guys, we need more suggestions!!
Let's show the company what pilots can cost or save.....

Together we stand , divided we fall

Warning 14
warning14 is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2004, 02:11
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Blandings
Posts: 719
And here's warning number 15....

A little tip for you, sunshine....

Should I ever pitch up at CBC and find myself paired with anyone sufficiently infantile to even suggest any of your pissy little practices I will have them offloaded as being mentally incapable of performing their duties.

Not joking.
Dropp the Pilot is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2004, 05:37
  #3 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: not here
Posts: 53
I totally agree with Dropp. While this FCN indeed works out as a pay cut to me, I don't think increasing costs to the company by messing around with fuel or 'working per rule' is going to help the situation. If I was a manager (and I am NOT!) that would just lead me to introduce another round of cost cutting.
Emma Rate is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2004, 08:04
  #4 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dubai
Posts: 15
Warning 14
I hope for your sake your identity remains anonymous.
If not, you’ll feel as welcome as a fart in a space suit, tea and biscuits will be imminent and one way ticket would not surprise me.
Keep your head down buddy and have some respect !
Gulfa is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2004, 09:00
  #5 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Middle East
Posts: 146

stop behaving like a prize pratt. we are all professionals here and the world is becoming the same as far as aviation pay and productivity is concerned. If you dont like what you see or are offered, then do us all a favour and leave. Go and find that dream job which pays the big money. If you do then lets us all know where it is.........Oh yes, then start moaning there like you are here.
Uplink is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2004, 10:37
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Beach
Posts: 444
Got to agree with you we should work exactly to SOP, if the others dont like the news why dont they resign en-masse , it has worked before ohh wait a minute nope it didnt.

What warning 14 says is pefectly reasonble, if they fark with us then it seems OK that they should get it back....

I think Dropp,Emma et al are missing the big picture here. If you think this is the last of the cuts, you are sadly mistaken, latest piece of news is that a max of 4 days off will be rostered, great for commuters and anyone who enjoys time off.

So please dont be so hard on warning14, and get off your high horses, and to use the word proffesional is a bit of a waste when dealing with EK management.

These are not pisssy little practices,or having a lack of respect, and as for T and Cake , well how can you complain when you do everything as per SOP????? and not during Ramadan either..

As for next round of cost cutting, I think there will be quite enough costs cut with the forthcoming resignations that are bound to follow, CApts will be losing a fair old chunk of salary that was almost guaranteed income over the last year or so.

Ramadan Kareem.. 145
145qrh is online now  
Old 21st Oct 2004, 11:55
  #7 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 51
All you guys who are against warning14. do you think the FCN is good or bad for the pilots? If it is bad what do you think we should do about it, bend over and take it?

These guys are messing with my money, and my time with my family. I think warning 14 is on to something. Why should we just sit back and take it?

Crazycanuk is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2004, 12:07
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Middle East
Posts: 146
No pilot would revert to tactics such as warning is suggesting. We are all a little more grown up than that.

The proof to all of this is not whether people resign, complain or work to rule. The proof will be whether people will join or want to join and help to expand the company. You cant moan or complain, well you can but it does not get anywhere and you all know that as well as I do. The company can only expand if they can recruit pilots. If no pilots want to come, then the pay structure and package will have to be reviewed again. We have alot of aircraft coming in the next few years, so just sit back and wait. There are not that many pilots out there, especially those who want to come to the UAE. I say the UAE because Etihad now will have a share, not only in the market, but also in pilot recruitment. We are all mercenaries at the end of the day and we go where the money is. Etihad are not getting the pilots they need and neither is Emirates. The package will have to change for both companies. Whoever pays the most will get the pilots, it is that simple.

In this part of the world if you have been here any amount of time, you soon come to realise that complaining and moaning will get you absolutely nowhere. Using tactics as warning suggested will just get you fired. So just sit back and wait a while it will all change for our benefit. You signed the contract to join the company which means you accepted what was offered at the time. The company will not change the package unless it has too. This will happen at the speed of a dripping tap. I have dealt with unions and management before and know that things do not happen quickly. It only happens when it needs to.

As to taxing slowly, configuring early etc. The only people who loose out are us, as our profit share will take a knock, which means ultimately our pay packets take a knock. The days of big pay in the major airlines is all but over. Companies are governed by bean counters now. It is the same the world over. I would rather be in an expanding company and have a job than in one where I am about to loose my job. Look at this time towards the american market. American and United are not in the best of conditions.

As to working and only having 4 days off, I cant see it myself. There are still laws which govern the industry ref CAP 371 and our FTL. Go and work in the charter world in the UK and tell me then if you are working hard or not. Our rosters are stable and we at least get a choice of a sort as to what we do.

It doesnt really matter where we go in the industry there is always room for better pay and conditions. I am still earning less than I was in my last company and that is several years on. I do however have a better standard of living. It is my choice to stay here. We have been given a small pay review of a sort. Take it as it is not open for negotiation. If they they need to give more they will but only if they have to. At least we all get paid for the heavy crew flts to New York and Australia. They could have said not to that.

So I dont think I am being hard on warning14. I have been in aviation a very long time and know that you have a choice to stay or go. They call the shots as there is no union here or will there ever be. Unions never really worked anyway. They were merely a means of trade off with the management. They are like politicians, they will will give you one thing but you have to concede something else. In Australia that ended up being jobs and careers......... I guess that one has been done to death. !!
Uplink is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2004, 15:52
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Beach
Posts: 444
Quite right Birdy.

EK pilots war cry .....BOHICA..

Bend Over Here It Comes Again.

145qrh is online now  
Old 21st Oct 2004, 16:34
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: If you can pronounce my last name, I'll tell ya!
Posts: 105
Together we stand , divided we fall

....."hello?" (echos)

LMAO, another Brit trying to take over the world. Although his plan sounds like a perfect revenge, its something I would only try if I was desperate to leave and had better opportunities elsewhere.

I have to say I really doubt anyone would fly with warning 14 because they want to keep their jobs and feed their families. I can see this guy getting reported by a CAPT or FO and getting sent home on the next BA flight out. Damn, worse than I am

bound_for_dubai is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2004, 18:56
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
Posts: 2,953
Bound for Dubai...get back to making those kraft dinners will ya. Don't you youngens know it is rude to interupt grown ups when they are talking.!!! Warning will probably be the chief pilot here by the time you get an ATP.

Major problem I have with the latest pay cut, is that reserve days(amoungst almost everything else) are now free to the company. I just hope we do not now have to put up with rosters of mid 80s block time, min days off and the rest as reserve. Will wait and see I guess.

It is about time that the trainer package was taken care of. I hope it is enough.

I wonder what pay cuts the rest of the company will have to put up with....ooops what was I thinking!!!
donpizmeov is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2004, 19:04
  #12 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: If you can pronounce my last name, I'll tell ya!
Posts: 105
LOL, always a smart @ss in the group, Don is not only the smartest but the funniest. Kraft Dinner? LOL!!! Man you must think I'm really poor.

As for Warning being the chief pilot at EK, I really hope so, but than again what would the airline turn into? A bunch of whiners wanting more money and freedom. I could be wrong.... but I doubt it!

If you have run out of tissue papers Don let me know, I'll FedEx a carton over.

... Kraft dinner LOL!!!

bound_for_dubai is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2004, 19:41
  #13 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
Posts: 2,953
Bound for Dubai wrote:

"Sorry to tell you guys, but your wrong, I don't work at a pilot shop I work night shift at Kraft Canada Bakery. I pay for my own flying because the money I make there is pretty good and can afford to fly..."

hence I thought you should be at work making those Kraft dinners......do try and keep up.
donpizmeov is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2004, 19:45
  #14 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 578
Warning 14 is right, it's a piss take, for instance, deadheading not counting towards productivity pay!!! sorry but you are on duty and should be rewarded accordingly.

Call out pay, well it's a start I suppose.

As a captain in my last airline the call out pay was £350, some others are around £500, so don't even bother to phone bacause the answer is NO. they will have to go much further before people start to give up hard earned days off. F/o's don't even bother.

Trainers, Good at last you are being payed for the qualification.

Safe flying, keeep fighting!!!!!
puff m'call is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2004, 19:52
  #15 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: If you can pronounce my last name, I'll tell ya!
Posts: 105
Oh LOL! Yes well Its Kraft BAKERY! We make biscuits, you know Teddy Grams, Chips a hoy, and yes we even make Tea biscuits... imagine that! Thats why I like Don, he's got character LOL!

bound_for_dubai is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2004, 20:17
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Far Away
Posts: 158

Been here a long time,and Gulfa,Uplink,Dropp,Emma,people like you,allow this once good job to be continually eroded,because of your attitude of apeasement,and acceptance,you tacitly approve the scandal that is going on,no doubt you all aspire to the second floor at EOC,one day and a car parking spot.We all know,and see people like you,you do none of us any favours.

No one is suggesting,harmful damaging action is acceptable,but take it easy on 14,he at least raises valid points,again,not one pilot,was consulted prior to implementation.So what do we do,what can we do?Nothing?Well we could all try to represent ourselves,by writing,asking for a meeting,several hundred letters would get noticed,that something clearly isnt right,But I suspect,people like you will do,exactly nothing,just wait for others with some guts to at least try,and challenge,what would in many airlines,be unacceptable.

We are being railroaded,with no representation,and that simply is not professional,nor fair,but it is a fact of life here,as you all so rightly acknowledge.Its a paycut,pure and simple,except,for junior TRIs who will gain.There is no more money,its been split up differently,thats all.

As for payrise,profit share,being paid for 3 crew to JFK,not blocking 4 days in a row,Uplink,youre dreaming,manual inserts will occur as reqd,but no doubt that wont pose a problem,for people like you,no doubt 2 crew to PER,JFK,KIX would be fine by you too.

It was an excellent job,run by professional,people with some integrity,and decency,thats fast disappearing.

Your collective apathy,will lead us all further into the inevitable,'just another job",just a number,just a driver,and we all know where that leads.Think of that,when youre doing a week of reserve,for no credit,after deadheading,around the network for no credit,prior to taking your leave for no credit,to come back to work huge hours,in whats left of the month,for strangely enough,no overtime.

And you all think thats just fine.?Wake up.

Sad day for us all.QB
Quod Boy is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2004, 05:24
  #17 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Sharp End.
Posts: 435
What made me chuckle was our esteemed EVPFO saying, "thankyou for your cooperation" at the bottom of the shafting notice, interesting use of the word 'cooperation'
sluggums is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2004, 06:20
  #18 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 323
Before we all head off and slit our wrists, or worst still rent a one bedroom flat in Karama because we can't afford anything else, it might be interesting to have a look at our pay over the last few months, and compare old with new pay schemes.

After hours of exhaustive scientific study, I looked at the differences for my productivity pay this year (junior Captain);

Jan (old scheme) Zero; (new scheme) 800dhs
Feb (old) Zero; (new) 2800dhs
Mar (old) 3620dhs
Kamelchaser is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2004, 07:37
  #19 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 323
Sorry, pushed submit button somehow...new to this (and have always had a problem with premature entering)

Anyway, as I was saying..

Productivity pay Old / New

Jan nil / nil
Feb 680 / 2800
Mar 3620 / 5372
Apr 200 / Nil
May 6220 / 7800
Jun nil / nil
Jul 6320 / 5800
Aug 1320 / 3600

Totals; Old scheme 18360 dhs
New Scheme 26,172 dhs

Seems under the new scheme I'd be better of by 7,812dhs over an eight month period (based purely on hours flown). I'm interested to know if anybody else has done the figures. Are my numbers right, or should I stick to my day job and give up statistical analysis? If they're right, don't tell EVPFO as I don't think this is the intention of the new scheme.

Appears you'd lose when taking leave,or doing your six monthly sim, but gain if doing purely flying (hint...sore throat coming on if they ask you to position somewhere).

Also not sure the intention is to work you 80 hrs after two weeks leave. The first para of the FCN states "the existing credit based system, which is used to ensure a fair distribution of work will be retained, but will only be used for rostering purposes".....but only time will tell I guess
Kamelchaser is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2004, 10:16
  #20 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UAE
Posts: 965

I think your maths is correct as it seems to work out roughly the same for me, but with smaller numbers (junior F/O). Only individuals can decide if it is worth working days off for what is on offer but the fact the company have to pay us to come in on a day off should ensure more roster stability. Having said that I can see a roster coming which has the minimum 8 days off (but not more than four in a row!), 100 block hours and the rest filled up with standbys which will greatly affect our lifestyle but not cost the company anything if they don't use us. Maybe I'm just being cynical but only time will tell.
BigGeordie is offline  

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