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If not Emirates, then where to ??

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

If not Emirates, then where to ??

Old 15th Mar 2006, 18:02
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Over there
Posts: 28
Cx SO makes more than EK Captain ????????????

That doesn't sound right !!

From what I found CX SO starts with approx 386,550.00 but that's Hong Kong dollars !!!!!! Plus you take away, i think, 16% for MR. Tax Man !

So if I got it right that comes down to about 3500 USD per month . I guess that's more like it now .

Cheers ,

Igor...
Igor37 is offline  
Old 15th Mar 2006, 20:41
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Dubai
Posts: 29
EKPRISONER, think your mixed up a bit. Starting salary FIRST OFFICER Emirates, Basic plus housing is 27000 Dirham is net income US$7400. This is excluding Provident funds(12%), bonus, dental,medical, erp and child education. guess thats about right. As fare as I know thats not what an CX SO is making. Don,t know what EK Captain is making
dessertdude is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2006, 03:47
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LE SAND
Posts: 55
EK A B and C scale salaries

In this part of the world A scale does not represent the longest serving members of the pilot work force but quite the opposite. This is whats on offer

First conversions

1USD =3.67 Dirhams
1Dirham=2.11 HKD

First year captain average 3 to 5 years at EK (C scaler) basic salary 24500 AED.

*O AED if in company accomodation (90percent of pilot workforce)
*minus 170 AED for medical if married and 0 kids(it is not free medical chaps)
*O benefit to you with O KIDS

You can avail yourself of company accomodation which is non reversible and BOOST your salary by 9600AED per month.BUT you will be on your own AND will definately use all of it if you decide to rent something at least as half as decent as what EMIRATES supply. SO dont count it as salary unless you decide to live in some sh***hole to save a few dids. In which case you will not like it here long.

Now then, last year the company introduced a B scale by introducing Direct entry Captains, the first year salary was not good enough so no suitable captains came. SO what to do!! what any GOOD manager should do. Introduce a better salary to attract the guys. Which is what they did BUT whoops not for everybody JUST for them! So the 2005 DEC B scale was born!! Therefore DEC 2005 B scaler 0 years at EK move to the 5th year of the Captains scale on 28175 AED per month. Good stuff hey!!

Anyway needing over 100 DEcs this year but you guessed it money not getting those captains to come on B scale salaries so the talk of the town is the 2006 A SCALE for DECs straight in at circa 35000 to 36000AED per month. I am Ten years with the company and still am not near that.

Hears the cruncher.

Requirements are 10000 hours 4000 jet command above 55TONNES

Hands up any body else meeting those requirements at EK but are looking like needing 3 to 5 years plus to reach those salary levels!

so there it is chaps and chapesses crunch the numbers and compare.

KEEP RECOVERING
RINGAdingding is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2006, 04:23
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: dubai
Posts: 8
Ringading - if you're going to ring your bell - get your facts straight pse.

you say "You can avail yourself of company accomodation which is non reversible and BOOST your salary by 9600AED per month."

This means that you take the company accommodation - then you definitely don't boost yr salary by 9600AED...

I think what he is trying to say is if you take the allowance instead of company accommodation - you get the allowance of 9600AED but then have to pay your own rent and your own utilities.

then you say "Now then, last year the company introduced a B scale by introducing Direct entry Captains, the first year salary was not good enough so no suitable captains came. SO what to do!! what any GOOD manager should do. Introduce a better salary to attract the guys. Which is what they did BUT whoops not for everybody JUST for them! So the 2005 DEC B scale was born!! Therefore DEC 2005 B scaler 0 years at EK move to the 5th year of the Captains scale on 28175 AED per month. Good stuff hey!!"

My husband was a DEC and I can tell you that his salary was less than the amount you quote.

I know this is a rumour forum but this rumour is not true!
ekwife is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2006, 04:49
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: IN THE PIT
Posts: 140
ekwife

Quote
My husband was a DEC and I can tell you that his salary was less than the amount you quote.

Ans: thats the amount he tells you he gets, what about all his other wives around the world to support!

Quote
I know this is a rumour forum but this rumour is not true!

Ans: A Professional PILOT!! Rumour forum.

CW
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Old 16th Mar 2006, 06:46
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Eternal Beach
Posts: 1,064
Not sure about any "scales", but after three years as an FO and you cross over, the basic salary is DHM 27,000.

halas
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Old 16th Mar 2006, 07:25
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: dubai
Posts: 375
There is nothing misleading or untruthful in what Ringading posted.
Ekwife... and I quote
''My husband was a DEC and I can tell you that his salary was less than the amount you quote''
If your are husband WAS a DEC....... then either he has quit or he is STILL a DEC. He will forever be a DEC until the day he quits.
Here are some of the affects of the DEC program which you persistently try to defend.
-low morale
-a huge increase in good pilots leaving EK
-a shocking increase in 'no shows' for courses
-a disturbing decline in suitable applicants
-an A, B and perhaps C payscale
-disunity within the pilot group
-an unsustainable increase in pilot workload
-one lawsuit
-an increase in detrimental health effects as a secondary result of the loss of suitable applicants
-a general mistrust in management's capabilities and truthfulness
-a lowering of the standard across the board (in addition recent DEC applicants who failed the interview are now being offered a job)
The DEC program is the worst of many bad policies that EK have instituted in the past 2 years.
This is not a slight on your hubby. Perhaps he is a decent human being and a good pilot. Do i blame him for the DEC policy? No.... unless of course he has no recognition of the bad affects it has had on the lives of over 1000 pilots and families at EK. If your attitude is a reflection of his, then i pity the F'O's who have to fly with him.
If you truly believe what you are defending then that is fine. We simply disagree. If you are attempting to lure others into joining EK as a means to improve your lifestyle and further improve your husbands lot in life, then I believe that is dishonorable.
mensaboy is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2006, 07:53
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LE SAND
Posts: 55
EK WIFE

Maybe if your hubby had joined this year as a DEC he would be looking at 350000 dhs a month instead of 28000!

Upsetting isnt it!!

KEEP RECOVERING
RINGAdingding is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2006, 07:57
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LE SAND
Posts: 55
WHOOPS 350000 would be nice.

But correcting myself for all those exactabees 35000DHS

KEEP RECOVERING
RINGAdingding is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2006, 16:37
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: dubai
Posts: 8
yes, my hubby is still a DEC with EK. Believe me, he too had his time of pursuing the captain's seat and had disappointments as well, but as a few people have pointed out, if you get the opportunity to get a DEC position, who is going to turn it down. We needed it for our family and I am sorry for those who feel that he has "taken" what was theirs, but that is life. I'm sorry too that you feel I have an "attitude" but I truly get annoyed at some of the posts posted sometimes.

I am not trying to lure anyone here - what for. It just irks me sometimes when the truth is stretched to look worse than it is. why? what is the idea behind some people biting the hand that feeds it, continually. It's not good and I know that there is no-one that you can go to with grievances without jeopardising your job, but we knew that before we came here and we accept it.

Ek is a great life for some and those who are unhappy here, must also realise that and not only see their side all the time without shooting down anyone who says that they are happy.

We are happy here - for sure there are some things that could be improved on but for us our glass is half full.
ekwife is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2006, 17:14
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Stockholm / Sweden
Age: 45
Posts: 125
well- Ekgirl - just my thouhgts...

you're stating "if you get the opportunity to get a DEC position, who is going to turn it down. We needed it for our family and I am sorry for those who feel that he has "taken" what was theirs, but that is life"

... which is really selfish, unprofessionell, disgraceful an purely egoistic!

I know some Captains (high calibre guys - with backbone and minimum moral views !!) , who would NEVER accept such a biased offer - thus shafting the hard-working F/Os their, by grabbing THEIR commands- by just exploiting the opportunity- that's as low, as it can get !

We (Senior F/Os with massive Command-Experience as well) get shafted by those selfish guys, who just can't get enough, and don't let other pilots get their earned (!!!) share as well in due time!

We (Me!!) have also families to feed, and we agreed to wait our time, but now we've been overlooked in favour of those blokes ! ...after serving 4 hard years in EK with > 10.000 hrs as well !!

Thus, the moral of our pilots workforce is even more deteriorated by that, as your "hubby"
(how sweet....) had just to come here to harvest other pilots seed! Great !!

Ek is definitively on their way down the drain by allowing this - the painting is on the wall!
Sorry - but i'get really bitter, if i have to imagine to fly with one of these DEC-blokes in the nearest future ...
But - Hey, don't worry, my CVs are sent out already!!
I might even consider now, taking my old - left hands seat - job on a MD 83 in europe up again ...

That's what you "hubby" - and the alikes - have achieved in EK ! Thanx for that !!

Tomorrow, i will at least join the real flying fun, by attending the Red-Bull-Air-Race in AUH -
Anybody's down there t'morrow as well !?

Remember: "Fly fast, Fly low, Fly left" - wasn't it !?! Well- Reno -those were the days ... Ahhhhh

Last edited by Cyberbird; 26th Jul 2006 at 23:01.
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Old 16th Mar 2006, 17:37
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: here
Posts: 11
so,if you had opportunity to join EK as DEC 4 years ago you would have turned it down?
zhu_tou is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2006, 17:41
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: some dive
Posts: 448
but for us our glass is half full.
or possibly half EMPTY.
ratpoison is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2006, 19:24
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Beach
Posts: 444
Half full or half empty, some might say is there even a glass????

Q - if a woman says something and there isn't a man there to hear it is she still wrong????
145qrh is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2006, 06:35
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Airplane
Posts: 133
Cyberbird says...

"I know some Captains (high calibre guys - with backbone and minimum moral views !!) , who would NEVER accept such a biased offer - thus shafting the hard-working F/Os their, by grabbing THEIR commands- by just exploiting the opportunity- that's as low, as it can get !"

And then goes on to say...

"But - Hey, don't worry, my CVs are sent out already!!
I might even consider now, taking my old - left hands seat - job on a 737 in europe up again ..."

It seems to me that there might be some "hard working f/o's" back at that company in Europe. You don't have a problem going back there and taking their hard earned spot in the left seat.

Does anyone else see that this guy is full of crap.

He also says...

We (Me!!) have also families to feed, and we agreed to wait our time, but now we've been overlooked in favour of those blokes ! ...after serving 4 hard years in EK with > 10.000 hrs as well !!

With those credentials you should be a captain already or have you ticked off too many with that big mouth of yours?

7
airbus757 is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2006, 08:40
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: In the State of Perpetual Confusion
Posts: 185
Originally Posted by ekwife
My husband was a DEC and I can tell you that his salary was less than the amount you quote.
I know this is a rumour forum but this rumour is not true!
ekwife,
Your husbands salary may well be less than the amount quoted. The pay packages for DEC's were not consistent and ranged from Dh 25,000 to a high of Dh 30,000. It was supposed to be based on experience but even that yardstick was not applied consistently.

This is the point that some are trying to make, there is no consistency here. While the company may very well be trying to offer DEC's what's on the website, most have no doubt that should their efforts be unsuccessful, all bets will be off and a better offer will be made while completely ignoring the long serving pilots already here.
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Old 17th Mar 2006, 10:00
  #37 (permalink)  
turtleneck
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Posts: n/a
Cyberbird.
Just tell me the difference between ekwife’s hubby and yourself, the moment you are back home taking the left hand seat away from another hard working FO of that company, having a family aswell and having awaited his time just as long.
What were your words again at the beginning of your post?
“... which is really selfish, unprofessionell, disgraceful an purely egoistic!”
The double standard thing, which reigns this part of the world, must have got to you real fast.
It’s up to the individual to run his own career out in today’s jungle. Definitely not to others to do it in your favour if the companies shaft us. YOU made the (apparently) wrong decision at the time when you signed an open contract. We’ll all get shafted eventually, even hubby might, but then again we all signed our own contracts.
Almost all FO’s at EK consider their career here transitory. Once they will have achieved their fourth stripe, they’ll eventually move on. You can bet that none of them intends to do that by moving back in line on the right hand seat!
Drop us all a post right here if your highness in calibre has done this one day.
I will take back every word I wrote here.
ttn
 
Old 17th Mar 2006, 10:19
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Gulf playing Golf
Posts: 1,141
We joined as F/Os because, for some reason or other they didnt offer us DEC. Who in their right mind would turn down a DEC job over a F/O job with the same airline.

Get off your high horse boys...

The day you leave EK, you too will be looking at adds that say "DEC NEEDED.."

Basic salary for new capt is 27000 AED, not 24500 AED as stated.

I dont agree that DEC should get more than me.....but that is the risk of getting a non unionized job. We are all hired on an individual basis.
Payscale is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2006, 10:29
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: eastern europe
Posts: 17
My husband was a DEC and I can tell you that his salary was less than the amount you quote.
I know this is a rumour forum but this rumour is not true![/QUOTE]

As Gillegan comments some DECs who were less keen to join EK were seduced by an 'improving' contract. There was a degree of negotiation available with a basic package of up to DH30,000+ on offer at the time.

Those DECs who joined on DH24,000+ undersold themselves in their desparation to join EK

EkWife has the smell of a Brit, perhaps the thought of GBP1,000+/month after tax in lost salary will make her cup seem less than half full.

She mentions that her family knew what it was joining, but so did everybody who joined 1992-2004, they were joining an airline with a seniority system that did not include DECs.

The company has overlooked many competent First Officers with DEC qualifications simply because it is cheaper on paper to employ a DEC, an upgrade First Officer requires replacement so the training costs are doubled.

How quickly EK has moved from being praised and lauded on PPRuNe to now being despised and ridiculed.

It is hard to see how the A380 can be trained for as it will take crews off a line program that is already undercrewed and barely working. Increasing numbers of people are leaving and not enough people are joining.

Drastic and expensive action is needed now to save this airline from a big fall.
plovdiv is offline  
Old 17th Mar 2006, 10:57
  #40 (permalink)  
MR8
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Building Site
Posts: 292
When Cyberbird says: I might even consider now, taking my old - left hands seat - job on a 737 in europe up again ...
I don't consider that the same as a DEC.

I'm in a same situation. When I left my previous company a few years ago, I was in a let seat after some years as a F/O, climbing up the seniority system. After my resignation, the people running the show told me that they were more than happy with my work for the company, and if I ever for any reason felt I wanted to come back, I could take up my old position as a Captain.
Although it is a 'grey area', this old company knows me as good as I know them, I've been working for them for several years, did a training as F/O and did my upgrade with them. Also, there wouldn't be many F/O's with my experience flying for that company... Therefore, I don't think going back to a previous employer where you did serve a certain amount of time before can be regarded the same as a DEC case.

MR8
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