Ek Package increase
Sorry to not dissappoint you Earl you are right...
All 330/340 captains have been offered 777 commands , but f/os cannot do a transition upgrade .
Face it f/o is nothing more then a housemaid for a Captain .
Get out while you can there is plenty of jobs now , dont hang around waiting for a miracle or youll still be here in 20 years waiting .......and still could be an F/O , it doesnt matter if you have more hours then most of the captains , fly well , fly bad , just dont give up a command to come here ................
Apparently there was a lot of EK drivers at the thomson fly open day ........ good luck fellas.........
All 330/340 captains have been offered 777 commands , but f/os cannot do a transition upgrade .
Face it f/o is nothing more then a housemaid for a Captain .
Get out while you can there is plenty of jobs now , dont hang around waiting for a miracle or youll still be here in 20 years waiting .......and still could be an F/O , it doesnt matter if you have more hours then most of the captains , fly well , fly bad , just dont give up a command to come here ................
Apparently there was a lot of EK drivers at the thomson fly open day ........ good luck fellas.........
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Maybe the reason Airbus Captains have been offered Boeing transitions is to make space for Airbus F/Os to upgrade on the Airbus.
This would keep the upgrades internal rather than employing more DECs.
This would keep the upgrades internal rather than employing more DECs.
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It really is quite unbelievable.
You’re an expanding airline, and require flexibility, remember that word TCAS and the buffoons in crew planning use it all the time. So the first thing we shall do to give us wider flexibility during the expansion.
1. Lets increase the command hours from 4500 to 6000, a step but I have not quite screwed myself yet. I could have looked at pilots individually realized that cadets need sectors not cruise hours but that would be too hard.
2. Lets stop the practice of Accelerated upgrades and take on new captains from outside and give them full transitions if needed. That should stop experienced guys applying quickly.
3. Just to put myself really in the corner I better also stop transition upgrades, so I can’t have the Flexibility of moving guys between fleets.
4. Just in case better raise the hours for co-pilots applying to 4000 so I can get even fewer people to apply because with 4000 hours they already have a command but wont qualify for command on points 1 to 3 so wont turn up for the course.
5. Well I better tell the guys here if they don’t like it to F off. Good they are going in droves so I really have screwed myself now.
6. No, still a fraction of space for maneuver so I had better sack most of the Training Captains and examiners just in case and take six months to get them to reapply for the jobs again.
Yep that’s it, I have legislated all my FLEXABILITY away and everything is well and truly screwed. Aren’t I a good manager, I said nothing while it was all going on and took my bonus. So Global Nomad what have you got to say to the above.
If I missed anything to the treatise in incompetence please feel free to add.
You’re an expanding airline, and require flexibility, remember that word TCAS and the buffoons in crew planning use it all the time. So the first thing we shall do to give us wider flexibility during the expansion.
1. Lets increase the command hours from 4500 to 6000, a step but I have not quite screwed myself yet. I could have looked at pilots individually realized that cadets need sectors not cruise hours but that would be too hard.
2. Lets stop the practice of Accelerated upgrades and take on new captains from outside and give them full transitions if needed. That should stop experienced guys applying quickly.
3. Just to put myself really in the corner I better also stop transition upgrades, so I can’t have the Flexibility of moving guys between fleets.
4. Just in case better raise the hours for co-pilots applying to 4000 so I can get even fewer people to apply because with 4000 hours they already have a command but wont qualify for command on points 1 to 3 so wont turn up for the course.
5. Well I better tell the guys here if they don’t like it to F off. Good they are going in droves so I really have screwed myself now.
6. No, still a fraction of space for maneuver so I had better sack most of the Training Captains and examiners just in case and take six months to get them to reapply for the jobs again.
Yep that’s it, I have legislated all my FLEXABILITY away and everything is well and truly screwed. Aren’t I a good manager, I said nothing while it was all going on and took my bonus. So Global Nomad what have you got to say to the above.
If I missed anything to the treatise in incompetence please feel free to add.
Last edited by flybystring; 9th Oct 2005 at 18:09.
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Fly By String
You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Another point you might have metioned is "If you don't like it, LEAVE!" You touched on it I think but it needed highlighted. Also "You are lucky to have a job." What managers EK has, right Office Boy, I mean Global Nomad.
You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Another point you might have metioned is "If you don't like it, LEAVE!" You touched on it I think but it needed highlighted. Also "You are lucky to have a job." What managers EK has, right Office Boy, I mean Global Nomad.
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LHR Rain, a bit of 'kin respect there, GN is now a VP and deserves our undying admiration. After all JH and he saved the company a fortune with their credit hour scam.
He is one of the reasons why Flight Ops is so efficient this year,
He is one of the reasons why Flight Ops is so efficient this year,
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Sounds like we're going to see ALOT of glass made real soon over there because of the nuclear meltdown that is about to happen at EK....Good luck lads....Management run amuck again, what a shame 
You know, I could have sworn that Global Nomad was a line captain from the Boeing fleet. I think that other fella you are refering to is hanging out at www.beancounterswhohatepilots.com.
Don
Don
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Well at least on the rumour buster it is clear now that we will not be getting another increase for this year. Thanks to the airbus fleet manager for the clarification, for those of you that still had any dought about if it was coming or not. It is to bad because it stops all the good rumours about when the increase would come. The last one that made me laugh, was the one about the 20% on the 25th for the 20 years of the airline. It is just too bad because it was realy funny actualy seing grown up men believing in Santa Claus... The other thing that has also been cleared to the trainers at least is the fact that they will not upgrade 140+ guys on the airbus fleet between now and end of 2006, but instead around 75 guys. (Even on the crew portal it says clearly that the 140+ can change for operational reasons...) The request for fleet transfers on to the boeing fleet that we captains got, in imho, is just a cover up ploy to say to the fo's "that hey we asked internaly for help, but your airbus captains did not want to help out so we are going to hire DECs. Not our fault, blame your airbus captains," like I would volunteer to go fly even further and for more days away than what I do now.... Nobody is going to go back to the 777 not even the guys who came over from it, as their lifestyle is much better on the airbus fleet. Just wait and see an advert in flight in the next couple of months for more DECs, and maybe they will pay them more than what we get as it makes sense... Another management achievement for your list flybystring...
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Earl mate,
Where does it say anywhere that to drive the 380 you need to be on the current bus?The chance to go to the 777 is to free up space on 330 for upgrades I guess?
There will no doubt be a "cost neutral" solution to transition from 777 to 380 if you are deemed suitable it is in the companys interest and the rules will change accordingly.
Having just done a trip with 4 from 8 pilots on the rotation removed from their roster to crew the pattern I for one am not certain the required standard of pilots will be in EK if the present self destruct method of man management path continues.
Is it true the 2nd JFK is delayed,with Hamburg due lack of crew?
Not knowing but Im not sure we have enough pilots at the moment to do the job yet alone expand yet further.
QB
Where does it say anywhere that to drive the 380 you need to be on the current bus?The chance to go to the 777 is to free up space on 330 for upgrades I guess?
There will no doubt be a "cost neutral" solution to transition from 777 to 380 if you are deemed suitable it is in the companys interest and the rules will change accordingly.
Having just done a trip with 4 from 8 pilots on the rotation removed from their roster to crew the pattern I for one am not certain the required standard of pilots will be in EK if the present self destruct method of man management path continues.
Is it true the 2nd JFK is delayed,with Hamburg due lack of crew?
Not knowing but Im not sure we have enough pilots at the moment to do the job yet alone expand yet further.
QB
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Hasn't a lot of bitching and moaning been from the 'Airbus' guys due to you all working your nuts off. Now you're posting that life on the bus is sweet and 777 is to be avoided at all costs. 
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BYMONEK,
No, that was one person's opinion, not the majority's. But who would want to jump from one fleet to the other knowing that
a. The first B777-300ERs have no crew rest facilities (EK requested that the standard fit be modified to exclude the rest area)
b. That the expansion over the next few years is on the Boeing fleet. Having experienced four years of turmoil as the Airbus fleet grew, why volunteer for yet more?
c. That the possibility of flying the A380 would be in the very distant future.
d. That very few carriers worldwide, other than US majors and flag carriers, fly the Boeing B777, thus limiting future job opportunities.
It may offer some people an opprotunity to get time in other destinations that the 'Bus does not fly to, Brisbane for example, but then destination equipment changes are very common so changing fleet just because you could get to Brissie would be foolish in the least.
Quod Boy,
There is no published Fleet Transfer Policy for prospective applicants for the A380. However, there is a policy that was adopted when the A340 was introduced and that stated that you needed a year's experience on the light twin first. It therefore logically follows that the A380 will require at least a modicum of Airbus philosophy knowledge....
No, that was one person's opinion, not the majority's. But who would want to jump from one fleet to the other knowing that
a. The first B777-300ERs have no crew rest facilities (EK requested that the standard fit be modified to exclude the rest area)
b. That the expansion over the next few years is on the Boeing fleet. Having experienced four years of turmoil as the Airbus fleet grew, why volunteer for yet more?
c. That the possibility of flying the A380 would be in the very distant future.
d. That very few carriers worldwide, other than US majors and flag carriers, fly the Boeing B777, thus limiting future job opportunities.
It may offer some people an opprotunity to get time in other destinations that the 'Bus does not fly to, Brisbane for example, but then destination equipment changes are very common so changing fleet just because you could get to Brissie would be foolish in the least.
Quod Boy,
There is no published Fleet Transfer Policy for prospective applicants for the A380. However, there is a policy that was adopted when the A340 was introduced and that stated that you needed a year's experience on the light twin first. It therefore logically follows that the A380 will require at least a modicum of Airbus philosophy knowledge....
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Secure ID,
Ok,point taken in that case then we can expect all the 777 old guard across to the bus prior to 380 arrival in oreder to get th2 12 months on type in?
If so,why are they not here with less than 2 years to go?
I shall venture to suggest a "cost neutral" solution involving seniority and a "waiver" on existing policy may well occur in senirity numbers 1-100.
IMHO of course,keep discovering.Back from pub.
QB
Ok,point taken in that case then we can expect all the 777 old guard across to the bus prior to 380 arrival in oreder to get th2 12 months on type in?
If so,why are they not here with less than 2 years to go?
I shall venture to suggest a "cost neutral" solution involving seniority and a "waiver" on existing policy may well occur in senirity numbers 1-100.
IMHO of course,keep discovering.Back from pub.
QB
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Secure,
The B777 do have crew rest facilities. The first 10 will not have them and the rest will. The ones with the rest facilities will be the ones going to JFK. The forward rest will not be put in as the weight penalty is one tonne plus. The B777-200LR will comew with the forward rest facility as standard. Having also seen the mock ups of both rest areas it is by far better than the airbus mickey mouse affair.
With regard to the transfer to the Boeing I think it will free up positions for the F/O's on the airbus. Not many places in the world to have a 330/340 and B777 on your licence.
As far as package increase goes - Why do people insist on thinking that every time there is an announcement, a payrise is in the offing. No company will do this. The budget has been set for this financial year and nothing will move 'till April/May. All that happens is people get their hopes up and become disappointed when it doesnt happen. It would be nice to think that we would have a 20% payrise. That is not going to happen and I think the majority know that.
The Airbus guys who have had the offer of a change to the Boeing. Are these the same guys who are working their arses off. This is therefore your chance to change the lifestyle you hate and give your F/O colleagues a chance of a command.
The B777 do have crew rest facilities. The first 10 will not have them and the rest will. The ones with the rest facilities will be the ones going to JFK. The forward rest will not be put in as the weight penalty is one tonne plus. The B777-200LR will comew with the forward rest facility as standard. Having also seen the mock ups of both rest areas it is by far better than the airbus mickey mouse affair.
With regard to the transfer to the Boeing I think it will free up positions for the F/O's on the airbus. Not many places in the world to have a 330/340 and B777 on your licence.
As far as package increase goes - Why do people insist on thinking that every time there is an announcement, a payrise is in the offing. No company will do this. The budget has been set for this financial year and nothing will move 'till April/May. All that happens is people get their hopes up and become disappointed when it doesnt happen. It would be nice to think that we would have a 20% payrise. That is not going to happen and I think the majority know that.
The Airbus guys who have had the offer of a change to the Boeing. Are these the same guys who are working their arses off. This is therefore your chance to change the lifestyle you hate and give your F/O colleagues a chance of a command.
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Are you guys kidding!!
of course i would go to the Boeing! 95 hours of 345 am indias,osakas,shanghais,shanghais,osakas,shanghais,osakas,os akas,shanghais,new york,osakas,shanghais,sydney,shanghais,shanghais,osakas,osak as,osakas,shanghais,shanghais,sydney,osakas,osakas,osakas,ne wyork,shangais,osakas,indias,indias,indias >>>>>>>>>>> the end is not in sight!!
But this idea of sending Airbus pilots to the boeing,well what can i say,another permutation of an equation to do everything needed to not have to dig into those bloody deep pockets and PAY UP!!
The company believes that by filling the shortfall of captains on the EXPANDING Boeing fleet they will have more chance of finding A330 rated DECs than B777 DECs therefore solving TWO problems at once BUT how does that now position the Boeing FOs for that matter Airbus FOs?
And how many Cathay 330/340 pilots do you think are close to 55 and have been stung by the property bust just a waitn to get there hands on an Emirates aircraft!! Boyo oh boy!!
This is just yet another reshuffle and policy change to fit the everchanging market environment so as NOT to pay up!!
Cold,calculating,cruel BUT this is MODERN business practices at there finest!! Much much more to come!!
oh and one final thought for all those wishing for the big inevitable PAY RISE (me included) it aint gunna happen!!
Oh and one more thought, here we have an expanding airline pushing the biggest and best IMAGE to the world an airline that needs to be doing its Damndest to attract and retain the best pilots but at same the time when they can least afford to do it they F$%K with us and our terms and conditions WHAT do you think it will be like when they finally stop growing and now have stable numbers. You better be resolute enough then to protect what you have because broadsides will become a common occurrence!!
Hold on to your hats!! The storm is a coming!!
of course i would go to the Boeing! 95 hours of 345 am indias,osakas,shanghais,shanghais,osakas,shanghais,osakas,os akas,shanghais,new york,osakas,shanghais,sydney,shanghais,shanghais,osakas,osak as,osakas,shanghais,shanghais,sydney,osakas,osakas,osakas,ne wyork,shangais,osakas,indias,indias,indias >>>>>>>>>>> the end is not in sight!!
But this idea of sending Airbus pilots to the boeing,well what can i say,another permutation of an equation to do everything needed to not have to dig into those bloody deep pockets and PAY UP!!
The company believes that by filling the shortfall of captains on the EXPANDING Boeing fleet they will have more chance of finding A330 rated DECs than B777 DECs therefore solving TWO problems at once BUT how does that now position the Boeing FOs for that matter Airbus FOs?
And how many Cathay 330/340 pilots do you think are close to 55 and have been stung by the property bust just a waitn to get there hands on an Emirates aircraft!! Boyo oh boy!!
This is just yet another reshuffle and policy change to fit the everchanging market environment so as NOT to pay up!!
Cold,calculating,cruel BUT this is MODERN business practices at there finest!! Much much more to come!!
oh and one final thought for all those wishing for the big inevitable PAY RISE (me included) it aint gunna happen!!
Oh and one more thought, here we have an expanding airline pushing the biggest and best IMAGE to the world an airline that needs to be doing its Damndest to attract and retain the best pilots but at same the time when they can least afford to do it they F$%K with us and our terms and conditions WHAT do you think it will be like when they finally stop growing and now have stable numbers. You better be resolute enough then to protect what you have because broadsides will become a common occurrence!!
Hold on to your hats!! The storm is a coming!!