Ek Package increase
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
From: Middle East
Hey Ringa,
Dont try to analyse why they are asking for airbus to swap to boeing. If it means you will get a rest and a better lifestlye then take it.
There are delays in the arrival of the Boeings so it means I believe that 5 will come in November. They will need people to fly them.
Simple as that. Take the offer. By the sounds of the airbus guys as a whole, you could all do with a rest. Question is can it get any worse (probably !!!)
Dont try to analyse why they are asking for airbus to swap to boeing. If it means you will get a rest and a better lifestlye then take it.
There are delays in the arrival of the Boeings so it means I believe that 5 will come in November. They will need people to fly them.
Simple as that. Take the offer. By the sounds of the airbus guys as a whole, you could all do with a rest. Question is can it get any worse (probably !!!)
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
From: Luton
Uplink,
None of the current B777s have crew rest facilities other than a 1st class seat. I also said that the first few B777-3000ERs do not have the rest area, for the reasons that you mentioned.
As for having the A330/340 and B777 on your licence, wouldn't that be great on a FAA or JAA ATPL? On a UAE ATPL? Different story...
None of the current B777s have crew rest facilities other than a 1st class seat. I also said that the first few B777-3000ERs do not have the rest area, for the reasons that you mentioned.
As for having the A330/340 and B777 on your licence, wouldn't that be great on a FAA or JAA ATPL? On a UAE ATPL? Different story...
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,118
Likes: 140
From: overthere
Well another compound of EK pilots have been told that the rent on their Villas is too expensive, and that they are to move (no choice of Villas given), take the allowance or pay the difference. Perhaps this is the package change that was rumoured to happen!
Always discovering.
Don
Always discovering.
Don
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
From: Luton
Don,
Which compound and what is the rental increase and difference that the guys have to pay?
But how can they get away with it? the website clearly states:
Aaah yes, now I see. They will supply you fully furnished accommodation but can move you at the drop of a hat...
Which compound and what is the rental increase and difference that the guys have to pay?
But how can they get away with it? the website clearly states:
Utility Allowance or Fully furnished accommodation (including water & electricity) is supplied.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 233
Likes: 24
From: east
Whats the difference between a DEC with 1 years service moving from Airbus to Boeing , and an f/o with 2 plus years in Ek , lots of Boeing time , including command time , enough for Accelerated with good sim scores ..
Why cant they do transition upgrades its the last link in the chain..........
Why cant they do transition upgrades its the last link in the chain..........
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,118
Likes: 140
From: overthere
SecurID,
The Villas are within Internet city. The rent went up 20%, its now around AED15000 above the EK limit, so the difference is around AED1300 per month. Some of the fellas had been there for 9years, some for a few months. Luckily it comes 12 months after the last pay cut, so at least there is some consistency.
Don
The Villas are within Internet city. The rent went up 20%, its now around AED15000 above the EK limit, so the difference is around AED1300 per month. Some of the fellas had been there for 9years, some for a few months. Luckily it comes 12 months after the last pay cut, so at least there is some consistency.
Don
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
From: Wish I Knew
Scooter the difference is that senior management would have to admit they introduced yet another policy for which the consequences were never considered. Thus an Arabic Solution to an Arabic problem, Save Face !
Can you rememeber the FCI explaining the augmented hours fiasco, no it was never issued because they screwed up operated completely outside the AOC and without the approval of all the countries they operated into.
FACE SAVING RULES THE ROOST, and they have the gall to talk about a safety culture !
Can you rememeber the FCI explaining the augmented hours fiasco, no it was never issued because they screwed up operated completely outside the AOC and without the approval of all the countries they operated into.
FACE SAVING RULES THE ROOST, and they have the gall to talk about a safety culture !
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 138
Likes: 3
From: 1st world country
What about payrise in EK???
Guys, look at this and then you are welcome to comment...
http://www.flightinternational.com/A...pay+rises.html
Time to wake up...
http://www.flightinternational.com/A...pay+rises.html
Time to wake up...
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
From: Aboo Dubby
I don't think EK management will shiver in their boots 
Even with MAS drivers getting the mentioned pay rise, it doesn't even come close to what the Mid East Carriers are offering.Rumour has it that the new ED of MAS (who's a highly regarded beancounter) held back the new deal so he can compare to what the market pays........Let's just say that he didn't need all his accounting skills to know that MAS had a sweet deal......& promptly signed off the deal
Even with MAS drivers getting the mentioned pay rise, it doesn't even come close to what the Mid East Carriers are offering.Rumour has it that the new ED of MAS (who's a highly regarded beancounter) held back the new deal so he can compare to what the market pays........Let's just say that he didn't need all his accounting skills to know that MAS had a sweet deal......& promptly signed off the deal
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 367
Likes: 81
From: Eu
When rent prices fall , as they inevitably will , is it likely that the
EK accomo will move those affected back into their original or
equivalent accomodation ? . We are talking pennies here, the
solution is that the company should bite the bullet for a
year or so and then sharpen up their negotiating skills .
The question is really, who owns the villas ? , perhaps the usual
money go round is at play .
EK accomo will move those affected back into their original or
equivalent accomodation ? . We are talking pennies here, the
solution is that the company should bite the bullet for a
year or so and then sharpen up their negotiating skills .
The question is really, who owns the villas ? , perhaps the usual
money go round is at play .
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
From: Oz
Terrible this has happened again. One of the guys has just been there for 10 months and feared this would happen. After assurances from accommodation he would be secure he moved to the place they recommended. After paying a load of cash out of his own pocket after his first forced move. Now what is to happen? Once again more money to dish out and the terrible stress of dealing with the accommodation department. Not to mention the usual unrest and disruption to the family. Most don’t give it a second thought as they have not been affected. However I sense that this problem will escalate and cause grief to many. The dreamers think that we have a chance of a payrise.This will never happen. With the spiralling rents in Dubai which will completely gobble up any part of the budget allocated to the pilots package for an increment or pay increase. Emirates will simply refuse to pay any more rent and continually move you to cheaper accommodation at your own cost. They may give a paltry increase in the rental allowance at the next review which will benefit the 7-10 % of the guys living in their own houses however for the rest it is next to useless. I don’t need to keep discovering I have known this painful reality for to long.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
From: terra softa
Trimotor,
At the risk of sounding pedantic, I think they have correctly priced themselves in the market.
It is an unfortunate fact that at the moment, rents are at a stratospheric high and landlords are cashing in. That is hardly the fault of Emirates, although I do believe they are under an obligation to keep pace with market trends.
It is doubtful that the market can sustain - in the event that it doesn't, would you be happy with a decrease in accommodation allowance?
At the risk of sounding pedantic, I think they have correctly priced themselves in the market.
It is an unfortunate fact that at the moment, rents are at a stratospheric high and landlords are cashing in. That is hardly the fault of Emirates, although I do believe they are under an obligation to keep pace with market trends.
It is doubtful that the market can sustain - in the event that it doesn't, would you be happy with a decrease in accommodation allowance?
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: Auckland
Journeyman,
at the risk of sounding insincere, yes I would have been happy to take a cut in the allowance because I never have taken it in the first place. I fully agree with your view that the company has to the obligation to provide adequate accommodation for ALL its pilots. By lowering the the standards of the accommodation sufficiently the company lures people into taking the allowance, thereby saving money while at the same time washing their hands of any responsibility. The expatriates who are renting privately are asked to pay for the greed of the local landlords while at the same time the company is unwilling to do so, something does not compute here...
at the risk of sounding insincere, yes I would have been happy to take a cut in the allowance because I never have taken it in the first place. I fully agree with your view that the company has to the obligation to provide adequate accommodation for ALL its pilots. By lowering the the standards of the accommodation sufficiently the company lures people into taking the allowance, thereby saving money while at the same time washing their hands of any responsibility. The expatriates who are renting privately are asked to pay for the greed of the local landlords while at the same time the company is unwilling to do so, something does not compute here...
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 233
Likes: 24
From: east
If i need a shipping container it goes straight to home.
The only answer is offshore bases ,or more pilots will leave .
So many reasons not to stay..................
Has any F/O got any reason to stay cause i cant think of any........
The only answer is offshore bases ,or more pilots will leave .
So many reasons not to stay..................
Has any F/O got any reason to stay cause i cant think of any........
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,085
Likes: 0
From: Eternal Beach
Not so long ago some very senior pilots were told that their villas were too expensive, with the same options...
1. Stay and pay the difference
2. Move into other company accommodation
3. Take the allowance and move out.
One of the affected told them he was not moving at all.
When challenged by the cucumber brigade he advised that he would not incure any expense from one of their options offered, as each one would.
He also told them that any difference in the rent that they reckon is above their allocation estimates per year could be saved by him in one flight alone. (Not sure of the formula there)
Conversly he could match the same rent difference per annum on every flight he operated, and would.
That was the sealing argument. He stayed.
halas
1. Stay and pay the difference
2. Move into other company accommodation
3. Take the allowance and move out.
One of the affected told them he was not moving at all.
When challenged by the cucumber brigade he advised that he would not incure any expense from one of their options offered, as each one would.
He also told them that any difference in the rent that they reckon is above their allocation estimates per year could be saved by him in one flight alone. (Not sure of the formula there)
Conversly he could match the same rent difference per annum on every flight he operated, and would.
That was the sealing argument. He stayed.
halas
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 727
Likes: 0
From: Varies!
Scooter
As you can't think of any, let me at least tell you the reasons I'M staying;
A reasonable starting salary net of tax around $5500 month. Those that say they can't manage then save the boat and brand new 4x4 until you've been here a few years.
Not having to wait too long for a Command anyway as it is still 'around' the 3 year mark. Yes, some have had to wait longer and the lack of transition upgrades policy is poor but people must be naive if they think it's their right at 3 years to the day to get the fourth stipe. ( That's when you order the boat!)
A provident fund that, although lacking in performance, will still give you the full balance of the fund instead of being tied to buying an annuity with current appalling rates. Just ask anyone who's joined BA on the new contract and ask them what can they expect on retirement!
Good standard of accommodation with all bills payed including any maintenance.
Flying new widebody aircraft that are well maintained. Not having to do manual loadsheets everywhere we go or the refuelling!
New and varied route structure that offers everything from a 35 min flight to 14 hours.
A bidding system that 'generally' allows you to choose what you want and gives you particular days off if that's your priority. At least on the Boeing anyway.
Leave system that is done at home on computer and can be confirmed within seconds.
Excellent staff travel that even allows you to turn up and go with e-ticket ( 2 weeks notice with my last outfit!). Good deals with almost every other airline going including business class travel for ALL the family on Lufthansa ( and EK if book Cat C firm)
Having a driver to pick you up and take you home after every flight. New Volvo's are nice.
Excellent training facilities especially the Pilot's lounge in the new Aviation building!
Getting to fly with a great bunch of guys. Very few left seat guys difficult to get on with. Operating in a professional yet relaxed environment on the Flight Deck.
And job security. Never had to face it? Lucky you. It's not pleasant facing redundancy, ask anyone who has. I don't wish to again, so here I am....................for now at least!
Oh, and as Secure ID said, the sun is shining. Unlike Quod Boy who's always off to the pub, i'm off to the beach. The pub is later!
P.s If non of the above grabs you, time to order that container of yours.
As you can't think of any, let me at least tell you the reasons I'M staying;
A reasonable starting salary net of tax around $5500 month. Those that say they can't manage then save the boat and brand new 4x4 until you've been here a few years.
Not having to wait too long for a Command anyway as it is still 'around' the 3 year mark. Yes, some have had to wait longer and the lack of transition upgrades policy is poor but people must be naive if they think it's their right at 3 years to the day to get the fourth stipe. ( That's when you order the boat!)
A provident fund that, although lacking in performance, will still give you the full balance of the fund instead of being tied to buying an annuity with current appalling rates. Just ask anyone who's joined BA on the new contract and ask them what can they expect on retirement!
Good standard of accommodation with all bills payed including any maintenance.
Flying new widebody aircraft that are well maintained. Not having to do manual loadsheets everywhere we go or the refuelling!
New and varied route structure that offers everything from a 35 min flight to 14 hours.
A bidding system that 'generally' allows you to choose what you want and gives you particular days off if that's your priority. At least on the Boeing anyway.
Leave system that is done at home on computer and can be confirmed within seconds.
Excellent staff travel that even allows you to turn up and go with e-ticket ( 2 weeks notice with my last outfit!). Good deals with almost every other airline going including business class travel for ALL the family on Lufthansa ( and EK if book Cat C firm)
Having a driver to pick you up and take you home after every flight. New Volvo's are nice.
Excellent training facilities especially the Pilot's lounge in the new Aviation building!
Getting to fly with a great bunch of guys. Very few left seat guys difficult to get on with. Operating in a professional yet relaxed environment on the Flight Deck.
And job security. Never had to face it? Lucky you. It's not pleasant facing redundancy, ask anyone who has. I don't wish to again, so here I am....................for now at least!
Oh, and as Secure ID said, the sun is shining. Unlike Quod Boy who's always off to the pub, i'm off to the beach. The pub is later!
P.s If non of the above grabs you, time to order that container of yours.
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
From: London
Bymonek. Spoken like a true Boeing pilot!! Soon it will be your turn to fly 900 hours per year (though fortunately you will be spared the factoring that Airbus guys had to endure). Check back with us this time next year and we'll see if your outlook has changed!
I agree with your list of good points though. In isolation it makes the place look like some sort of Shangri-La! But Shangri-La it ain't!
I agree with your list of good points though. In isolation it makes the place look like some sort of Shangri-La! But Shangri-La it ain't!