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Collective Colour Vision Thread 4

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Collective Colour Vision Thread 4

Old 1st Sep 2020, 16:05
  #561 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: England
Posts: 19
Hi Michele Vella, that a great move on trying to push for progression.
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Old 8th Nov 2020, 16:01
  #562 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: England
Posts: 19
Hi Everyone
something very exciting is coming this week, this will hopefully push for change in Europe. I will post more information soon!
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Old 12th Nov 2020, 16:54
  #563 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: England
Posts: 19
Exciting Announcement! ECDAA (The European Colour Deficient Aircrew Association) is live !

https://www.ecdaa.com/

I Co-founded ECDAA with a pilot from Italy and we have a panel of experienced commercial and GA pilots. We are always looking for individuals interested in joining the panel.

ECDAA is a non-profit group in which CVD pilots have come together to create awareness and change within Europe on colour vision regulation for aircrew. We support and provide advice for anyone facing medical denials or loss of licenses due to the restrictive regulation currently in place. We work together to push for change within EASA/UK towards a fairer more practical method of testing that will stop the discrimination of many pilots and high-quality candidates. These testing methods are already being used in New Zealand, Australia, USA, and more where change has been made.

We are going to be running live webinars, forums, news articles, information blogs, and much more.
We welcome you to join us today with a free account and become part of this great community!
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 07:08
  #564 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 124
Good morning,

resurrecting this old thread to get some advice on an issue that I just found out that might have an impact on me (and probably others as well) due to Brexit and new UK CAA licenses.

I´m a deutanomalous pilot who got his initial medical 20 years ago after a passing Holmes-Wright lantern examination at the UK CAA in LGW. Fast forward till today after flying 10000h on Boeings and whatnot I still find myself out of a job thanks to COVID but might have an opportunity again in the UK where I worked the last 5 years. Problem is due to brexit I will need to validate my EASA license in the UK with a defined process that requires me to apply for an inital Class I medical in the UK. Looking up the requirements for CVD pilots its made very clear that lantern tests are not accepted and the means of secondary testing are anomaloscope and CAD test.

However, the regulations say the following on the transition:

Non-EU licence holders and EU licence holders who have never held a UK-issued licence
Applicants must apply for an initial medical certificate of the appropriate class at an AeMC for Classes 1&3 or an AME for Class 2 and LAPL. (Please note revalidation standards of the applicable class may apply to applicants who already hold the applicable licence (e.g. Class 1 for CPL/ATPL)).
So apparently revalidation standards may apply for license holders, which would not require me to take color vision testing as it is according to regulation "on clinical indication". This would be crucial to me as I know that I will not pass the CAD and probably not the anomaloscope.

Now, how best to spin this? Does anybody here have any experience already with this process? Would be happy to get some advice or pointers who I should maybe talk to before starting the process and scheduling a booking for the Class I.

Thanks already everyone.
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 18:21
  #565 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: England
Posts: 19
Hello Parkbremse
Such a good example of the ridiculous situations being created by the UK CAA. I think from what I understand of your situation , if the UK issued a class 1 medical before on the basis of a passed HWL then to have it revalidated it will not require you to redo any colour vision test as the HWL pass should be on record and you have no clinical indication that would require you to be retested .

I would also recommend having a look at ecdaa.com , someone with a great amount of aviation experience like yourself would be a great addition to the panel. Plus there are loads of useful blogs on colour vision testing and regualtions making it easier to intepret and understand and a dedicated forum where members can interact .

Let me know if you have any further questions I'll be more than happy to help!
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Old 30th Aug 2021, 12:03
  #566 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 2
Parkbremse

You should be fine. As you state, revalidation standards would apply and for revalidation there is no requirement for CVD testing unless clinically indicated.

My advice: if for whatever reason an AME attempts to undertake CVD testing, I would politely decline and clarify the requirements with them.

I am in a similar position to yourself having passed lantern testing many years ago and flying commercially in the UK ever since.
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Old 2nd Sep 2021, 14:09
  #567 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Surrey
Posts: 13
Colour blind OCVT+MFT for class 1 medical for the FAA

Hello, im 17yo male, wanting to become a pilot. Failed the CAD test in the UK but know I could become a pilot commercially in America if I pass the OCVT+MFT. I know some places in the UK conduct FAA medicals, however, does anywhere in the UK do the OCVT+MFT, or does that involve flying to America. I plan on starting my PPL next year and after completion try and take the OCVT+MFT tests to get an unrestricted class 1 from the FAA. Currently, I can get a CAA Class 2 medical with the restriction of "day time only" flying and possibly IR(r) rating.
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Old 10th Mar 2022, 16:11
  #568 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Belgium
Posts: 4
Upgrading Medical Class 2 -> Medical Class 1 (Color vision)

Hi,

First of all, my apologies if this is not the right place to post. I found no other posts with the same situation.

I live in Belgium, Europe. Last year I submitted my request for an EASA Initial Medical Class 1.
The examination was going very well, until I had to do the Ishihara Test. Turned out I have been colorblind for 25 years(!) without noticing anything.

As a result I received a Class 2 with restriction "Night Flying". Since I am aiming for commercial aviation, I would like to upgrade my Class 2 to a Class 1.
I already did the additional tests of EASA. The AME said that my score was just under the minimum requirements.
The AME told me my only options left are the OCVT (Operational Color Vision Test) in the US or give up the dream.
My concern now is: Can I, as an European, obtain an FAA license Medical Class 1? If yes, where exactly do I start?


TL;DR Failed initial Medical Class 1 (colorblindness) and received Class 2 with restriction "Night Flying". Would like to upgrade to Class 1.

Thank you in advance for your reply.

Kind regards,
Sip
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Old 10th Mar 2022, 22:09
  #569 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by Sip477 View Post
Hi,

First of all, my apologies if this is not the right place to post. I found no other posts with the same situation.

I live in Belgium, Europe. Last year I submitted my request for an EASA Initial Medical Class 1.
The examination was going very well, until I had to do the Ishihara Test. Turned out I have been colorblind for 25 years(!) without noticing anything.

As a result I received a Class 2 with restriction "Night Flying". Since I am aiming for commercial aviation, I would like to upgrade my Class 2 to a Class 1.
I already did the additional tests of EASA. The AME said that my score was just under the minimum requirements.
The AME told me my only options left are the OCVT (Operational Color Vision Test) in the US or give up the dream.
My concern now is: Can I, as an European, obtain an FAA license Medical Class 1? If yes, where exactly do I start?


TL;DR Failed initial Medical Class 1 (colorblindness) and received Class 2 with restriction "Night Flying". Would like to upgrade to Class 1.

Thank you in advance for your reply.

Kind regards,
Sip
Im a medical examiner in Australia, so can't comment on the exact details in the EU.

The Ishihara is a screening test only, it doesn't quantify the level of colour deficiency.

Depending on local regulations, you should be able to undertake a Farnsworth Lantern test (or similar) and if you fail that, a CAD test. Some jurisdictions also allow an occupational assessment (which means you go and play with the lights at night time).

Have a look at YouTube for Farnsworth tests for reference. Check with your examiner about the actual local regulations for subsequent testing on failing the Ishihara. If they dont have the answer, they should be able to research it more appropriately on your behalf.

Regards

Irish Kiwi
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Old 11th Mar 2022, 10:44
  #570 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Belgium
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by irish_kiwi View Post
Im a medical examiner in Australia, so can't comment on the exact details in the EU.

The Ishihara is a screening test only, it doesn't quantify the level of colour deficiency.

Depending on local regulations, you should be able to undertake a Farnsworth Lantern test (or similar) and if you fail that, a CAD test. Some jurisdictions also allow an occupational assessment (which means you go and play with the lights at night time).

Have a look at YouTube for Farnsworth tests for reference. Check with your examiner about the actual local regulations for subsequent testing on failing the Ishihara. If they dont have the answer, they should be able to research it more appropriately on your behalf.

Regards

Irish Kiwi

Hi Irish,

I did the additional tests after the Ishihara Plate test. This included the anomaloscope test, CAD test and Farnsworth Lantern test.
Unfortunately, I did not meet the minimum requirements. I contacted the AME and my only options 2 options were to do an OCVT or give up the dream.

I never heard about "occupational assessment" though. Could you care to elaborate?

Kind regards,
Sip
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 11:39
  #571 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Belgium
Posts: 4
Talk AME

Dear all,

I have been taling with 2 AME's the past weeks after failing the additional colour vision tests in Europe (EASA). To summarize, they told me an upgrade from class 2 to class 1 is not possible and I am definitive "colour unsafe".
I have been thinking to go to another AME for a second opinion, but I doubt about the outcome.

Am I out of options or are there still any left?

Kind regards,
Sip
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Old 3rd Jun 2022, 23:39
  #572 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1
Colour Vision Deficiency and Class 1 CAA UK

Hi all,

I know I’m late to the forum but I suppose it might be worth the shot.

13 years ago I was told I could never become a pilot, this didn’t seem like very much to a 5 year old boy at the time - however growing up as a young kid, it made an impact. This is because I am ‘colour blind’.

Growing up as a child and to where I am now, studying for A-Levels, my colour vision has never really affected me in my day-to-day life, other than the odd wrong coloured pencil in school. Nothing major and therefore I believe I’ve always seen myself as being able to do things ‘normal colour’ sighted people can do. Until now…

Over the past few months I have began to research endless options of gaining a commercial license and putting the same old question into Google time and time again: “Can you be colourblind and become a pilot?” After scrolling through countless articles and websites I came across the CAA’s medical requirements in order to gain a Class 1 Medical. “Applicants who fail to pass in the Ishihara test shall undergo further colour perception testing to establish whether they are colour safe.” Having always known I’d fail the Ishihara plates, this sentence gave me a glimmer of hope, knowing that it may be possible to pursue my life-long dream.

I researched and scoured the internet until I found my local AME. I contacted him and he directed me Dr Adrian Chorley of Aviation Vision Services. I made the long journey down to London to have the CAD test done.

After the test I came out anxious and awaited the news. To pass the CAD I needed to get either <6 on the red-green or <12 on the yellow-blue, any higher on either one and it would be a fail.

He span the computer around and I saw “certification: fail” written across the page. My heart sunk and I knew that this was my long childhood dream over.

My results were:

Red-green = 19.94
Yellow-blue = 0.69


This was a total and complete shock to me. My colour vision does not really affect me in my daily life and I never thought it would be as bad as it was when coming to testing.

I still struggle to get my head around it as I can clearly distinguish the red and white of the PAPI lights, the white, red and green light gun used by air traffic control, the various colours of runway/ taxiway lighting and finally the various lights used on the flight deck. I can identify all the colours in every condition including day, night, rain, sun etc

This is a really limiting test which severely hinders people, like myself, who can recognise the colours used in aviation but cannot pass the CAD test. Personally, there needs to be a test which replicates the same lighting used in aviation which can be used to test people, therefore not limiting 1 in 10 men.

This is gutting news and I’m trying to find ways around this whether that be another test etc.

Ive heard OMLs are something which can be added to a license to work only in a multi-crew environment, could anybody shed some light onto this being applied to myself as a CVD person.

Any advice, guidance or help would be extremely appreciated from everyone and would mean a lot.

Many thanks,
Jake

Last edited by Jakeb; 6th Jun 2022 at 14:44.
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Old 14th Jul 2022, 17:03
  #573 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Surrey
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by Jakeb View Post
Hi all,

I know I’m late to the forum but I suppose it might be worth the shot.

13 years ago I was told I could never become a pilot, this didn’t seem like very much to a 5 year old boy at the time - however growing up as a young kid, it made an impact. This is because I am ‘colour blind’.

Growing up as a child and to where I am now, studying for A-Levels, my colour vision has never really affected me in my day-to-day life, other than the odd wrong coloured pencil in school. Nothing major and therefore I believe I’ve always seen myself as being able to do things ‘normal colour’ sighted people can do. Until now…

Over the past few months I have began to research endless options of gaining a commercial license and putting the same old question into Google time and time again: “Can you be colourblind and become a pilot?” After scrolling through countless articles and websites I came across the CAA’s medical requirements in order to gain a Class 1 Medical. “Applicants who fail to pass in the Ishihara test shall undergo further colour perception testing to establish whether they are colour safe.” Having always known I’d fail the Ishihara plates, this sentence gave me a glimmer of hope, knowing that it may be possible to pursue my life-long dream.

I researched and scoured the internet until I found my local AME. I contacted him and he directed me Dr Adrian Chorley of Aviation Vision Services. I made the long journey down to London to have the CAD test done.

After the test I came out anxious and awaited the news. To pass the CAD I needed to get either <6 on the red-green or <12 on the yellow-blue, any higher on either one and it would be a fail.

He span the computer around and I saw “certification: fail” written across the page. My heart sunk and I knew that this was my long childhood dream over.

My results were:

Red-green = 19.94
Yellow-blue = 0.69


This was a total and complete shock to me. My colour vision does not really affect me in my daily life and I never thought it would be as bad as it was when coming to testing.

I still struggle to get my head around it as I can clearly distinguish the red and white of the PAPI lights, the white, red and green light gun used by air traffic control, the various colours of runway/ taxiway lighting and finally the various lights used on the flight deck. I can identify all the colours in every condition including day, night, rain, sun etc

This is a really limiting test which severely hinders people, like myself, who can recognise the colours used in aviation but cannot pass the CAD test. Personally, there needs to be a test which replicates the same lighting used in aviation which can be used to test people, therefore not limiting 1 in 10 men.

This is gutting news and I’m trying to find ways around this whether that be another test etc.

Ive heard OMLs are something which can be added to a license to work only in a multi-crew environment, could anybody shed some light onto this being applied to myself as a CVD person.

Any advice, guidance or help would be extremely appreciated from everyone and would mean a lot.

Many thanks,
Jake


Hi Jake. So sorry no one replied to you...
It really feels as if we are alone in this world. Such a niche community and only if YOU are affected does it result in you caring. Normal colour vision people get it easy. The 90%...

I too failed the CAD, protan i scored 17.40. HOWEVER, i passed the Farnsworth D-15. I beg EVERYONE who has failed the cad to go to city university in Londom to get this test conducted. If you pass YOU can hold an UNRESTRICTED class 1 medical for Transport Canada. This means, yes you can fly for an airline! This saved my dreams of becoming an airline pilot. Within a 6 month period, i had gone from "what the hell am i going to do with my life" and praying for the CAA to change the laws to being enrolled in a canadain flight school for a PPL+CPL+IFR+INSTRUCTOR etc... the full package. They also offer this Farnsworth D-15 test in New Zealand. BUT, over in NZ and AUS they have a practical test called the OCVA. Look into this as well.

I bloody hope progress is made in changing the colour vision laws globally. Starting with the CAA and EASA. If the CAA or EASA change them, others will follow.

The FAA also offer a lot more testing options. A variety of strange colour tests. God knows where you could get them done. God knowns if I or any moderately colour blind person could pass them. They also offer an OCVT+MFT test. This is a one time pass event.

This infuriates me, if you can't already tell. For the colour blind individuals out here it feels as if we are stuck in a well with no one giving us a rope up.

Please try the D-15.

Kind regards, Ollie Seaward
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