Collective Colour Vision Thread 3
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Citi Uni Test CAD
A lot has been said in the last few pages about the CAD test so I post a link to the Citi Uni site where you can read a bit about it and have a go yourself.
Remember though the real test lasts about 15 minuets and you have your chin on a rest and also need to manipulate the control box to say where the square is moving to, it is very stressing!
A new web-based colour vision test
Remember though the real test lasts about 15 minuets and you have your chin on a rest and also need to manipulate the control box to say where the square is moving to, it is very stressing!
A new web-based colour vision test
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One other point noted in the report is that it states the PAPI Simulator was observed at 4 metres.
Absolute
!!!!!
It was at least 6 metres, if not more.
Also, the researchers told me that the PAPI Simulator was designed to simulate a PAPI at a range of 6 miles (which I admit I presumed meant 6 nautical miles). The report states the PAPI simulated range was 5.4 km.
There is a significant difference between 5.4 km and 6 Statute Miles (9.6 km - almost double the distance), let alone 6 Nautical Miles (11.1 km - more than double the distance).
We have a number of problems here. Either there is highly erroneous information within the report which casts doubt on its integrity or the researchers did not know what they were (a) doing and / or (b) talking about.
In either case, it is highly unacceptable.
This is a supposedly professional report on a matter of "QUOTE UK CAA: pure science" which is being used to determine the future of many aspiring commercial pilots therefore ANY inaccuracy is unaceptable.
Absolute
!!!!!It was at least 6 metres, if not more.
Also, the researchers told me that the PAPI Simulator was designed to simulate a PAPI at a range of 6 miles (which I admit I presumed meant 6 nautical miles). The report states the PAPI simulated range was 5.4 km.
There is a significant difference between 5.4 km and 6 Statute Miles (9.6 km - almost double the distance), let alone 6 Nautical Miles (11.1 km - more than double the distance).
We have a number of problems here. Either there is highly erroneous information within the report which casts doubt on its integrity or the researchers did not know what they were (a) doing and / or (b) talking about.
In either case, it is highly unacceptable.
This is a supposedly professional report on a matter of "QUOTE UK CAA: pure science" which is being used to determine the future of many aspiring commercial pilots therefore ANY inaccuracy is unaceptable.
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Hey guys, just booked myself into city uni and booked my lantern in gatwick aswell. Just wondering if anyone has any tips or advice and if theres anything i can do to prepare in anyway way. Thanks
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The CAD works by you staring at a flashing grid and waiting for a coloured smaller grid to move from one corner to the other, the start of which is signified by an audio tone. When you've identified which corner the coloured grid is moving to you press a corresponding Left - Right - Top - Bottom button on the control box. If you get the right one you get a point, enough points you get a prize.
The trouble with this is that each selection has a one in four chance of getting it right so whilst statistically improbable, like any 'game of chance' you may be lucky enough to get it right every time even if you are totally colour blind and can't make out any of the coloured grids. Theoretically, it could be passed by a blind person.
So they're trying to replace tests which they reckon are unreliable with one which can be guessed, even with your eyes closed. Even if they watch you to make sure your eyes are open you could still guess correctly.
This has been developed to remove any and all risks of a pilot failing to identify correctly a colour critical safety task so how on earth can you have a test which has any element of chance in it?
This is 'pure science' for you. ' Pure b******s ' more like!!
Give me strength!!
The trouble with this is that each selection has a one in four chance of getting it right so whilst statistically improbable, like any 'game of chance' you may be lucky enough to get it right every time even if you are totally colour blind and can't make out any of the coloured grids. Theoretically, it could be passed by a blind person.
So they're trying to replace tests which they reckon are unreliable with one which can be guessed, even with your eyes closed. Even if they watch you to make sure your eyes are open you could still guess correctly.
This has been developed to remove any and all risks of a pilot failing to identify correctly a colour critical safety task so how on earth can you have a test which has any element of chance in it?
This is 'pure science' for you. ' Pure b******s ' more like!!
Give me strength!!
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Here is a quick update on my situation-
I failed the lanterns in 2003. Partly through not understanding the testing procedure and partly through nerves in that I sometimes failed the plates, so might have had a problem passing. I was issued a restricted Class 1.
This year I required a Class 2. So, I wrote to the CAA earlier this year when I required to renew my Class 2 and decided to try and get a Class 1 again by retaking the CVD tests. I quoted the Chapter 13 - Aviation Ophthalmology document that states "The lantern-tests may be retaken after 6 months" in my letter. My case coupled with a 2nd opinion that suggested I could pass the tests and have waited over 5 years to come to this conclusion seemed to work and the CAA said I could retake the tests on this occasion. They did state however that this 6month retake will be removed in the future.
On my renewal I got 1 plate wrong, but corrected myself on it, however it was deemed I still needed to take the lanterns (quite sensible really). I then passed the Beynes on the first attempt and having read the test procedure before the examination found it very easy.
I now have a full Class 1 and now just need to decide what to do with it after pursuing a successful non-aviation career over the last 5 years....
Keep at it!
I failed the lanterns in 2003. Partly through not understanding the testing procedure and partly through nerves in that I sometimes failed the plates, so might have had a problem passing. I was issued a restricted Class 1.
This year I required a Class 2. So, I wrote to the CAA earlier this year when I required to renew my Class 2 and decided to try and get a Class 1 again by retaking the CVD tests. I quoted the Chapter 13 - Aviation Ophthalmology document that states "The lantern-tests may be retaken after 6 months" in my letter. My case coupled with a 2nd opinion that suggested I could pass the tests and have waited over 5 years to come to this conclusion seemed to work and the CAA said I could retake the tests on this occasion. They did state however that this 6month retake will be removed in the future.
On my renewal I got 1 plate wrong, but corrected myself on it, however it was deemed I still needed to take the lanterns (quite sensible really). I then passed the Beynes on the first attempt and having read the test procedure before the examination found it very easy.
I now have a full Class 1 and now just need to decide what to do with it after pursuing a successful non-aviation career over the last 5 years....
Keep at it!
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City Uni Tests
Hi,
this is the list of tests done at City Uni London:
1. Ishihara 38-Plate test (25 numerical designs used)
2. CAD test
3. Farnsworth D15
4. American Optical Company (H.R.R) Plates (2nd Edition) *
5. City University Test, 2nd Edition *
6. Nagel anomaloscope
7. Holmes-Wright Lantern Type A
8. Aviation Lights Test
----------------------------------
* these are similar to Ishihara plates (if I remember correctly)
Yames
this is the list of tests done at City Uni London:
1. Ishihara 38-Plate test (25 numerical designs used)
2. CAD test
3. Farnsworth D15
4. American Optical Company (H.R.R) Plates (2nd Edition) *
5. City University Test, 2nd Edition *
6. Nagel anomaloscope
7. Holmes-Wright Lantern Type A
8. Aviation Lights Test
----------------------------------
* these are similar to Ishihara plates (if I remember correctly)
Yames
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hey modhop ye the number is (44) 2070400262. Im booked in for next monday! And gatwick too. I gota giv it a shot. I'll prob fail though. I cant make out 18 out of 24 ishiharas. Have to try before i giv up on chasing an aviation career.
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CAD test and current JAA class 1 holders?
I have to ask, if this new CAD testing system replaces the current screening tests (Ishihara & Lanterns), what does this mean for current JAA class 1 medical holders? I have an unrestriced class 1 medical and passed the Ishihara plates at Gatwick. However in the CAD example I lose sight of the moving square a couple of times for about 2 to 3 seconds. According to the website:
"The absence of the moving square may only last for 2 to 3 seconds, before you see it reappearing in a different colour. This temporary disappearance of the pattern is what you have to watch for in the test. When this happens, you may like to confirm this with your optometrist who will be able to diagnose the type and severity of your colour deficiency loss."
Would I be screened on this CAD test when I revalidate my medical, which may give a minor indication of a colour deficiency, or will the fact I have already demonstrated to the CAA that I'm technically 'Colour Safe', using their current screening methods allow me to bypass any future testing? I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea of having to undergo further uneccessary testing that could reverse my status to 'Colour Unsafe'.
What sort of protection is there for current JAA Class 1 medical holders that have passed the current colour screening methods but know their colour vision is not 'perfect'?
Cheers,
SHG.
"The absence of the moving square may only last for 2 to 3 seconds, before you see it reappearing in a different colour. This temporary disappearance of the pattern is what you have to watch for in the test. When this happens, you may like to confirm this with your optometrist who will be able to diagnose the type and severity of your colour deficiency loss."
Would I be screened on this CAD test when I revalidate my medical, which may give a minor indication of a colour deficiency, or will the fact I have already demonstrated to the CAA that I'm technically 'Colour Safe', using their current screening methods allow me to bypass any future testing? I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea of having to undergo further uneccessary testing that could reverse my status to 'Colour Unsafe'.
What sort of protection is there for current JAA Class 1 medical holders that have passed the current colour screening methods but know their colour vision is not 'perfect'?
Cheers,
SHG.
Last edited by shgsaint; 12th Jul 2009 at 09:01.
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CAD
I've failed holmes and beyes lanterns and also ishihara.
However, I've passed anamaloscope and CAD examinationa at uni.
I'm now giving it a try at the spectrolux.
In my case, CAD was easy to pass.
No big deal.
I understand your worries but why don't you give it a try and get secure if it gets implemented?
regards
However, I've passed anamaloscope and CAD examinationa at uni.
I'm now giving it a try at the spectrolux.
In my case, CAD was easy to pass.
No big deal.
I understand your worries but why don't you give it a try and get secure if it gets implemented?
regards
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ponte, did you try to get the CAA to accept the anamaloscope from city uni? And when you were doing the cad test did the square dissapear for you? I think ill try the spectrolux too if i cant pass in london.
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City
Telboy,
I was told they had to increase the green scale a little bit and that I should check the standards in JAA.
I think this answers your question.
Either way, I'll redo the anamaloscope in switzerland and also the spectrolux and this is an JAA recognized AME so I'll wait to see if I get my change there. I'm just waiting (im)patiently for my appointment.
I may post my experience latters.
The main question still gets me..Will we be accepted by any airline?
I know there are some pilots who got it but some airlines redo some internal exams and....
If someone knows any, please pm me
I was told they had to increase the green scale a little bit and that I should check the standards in JAA.
I think this answers your question.
Either way, I'll redo the anamaloscope in switzerland and also the spectrolux and this is an JAA recognized AME so I'll wait to see if I get my change there. I'm just waiting (im)patiently for my appointment.
I may post my experience latters.
The main question still gets me..Will we be accepted by any airline?
I know there are some pilots who got it but some airlines redo some internal exams and....
If someone knows any, please pm me
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spiez
Well my goal is spectrolux
At first I had that answering machine in germat but I then sent a letter and a fax there to book the appointment and they returned me a call to confirm dates.
The issue with the machine is that they turn it on on non-working hours and that's what the message says
The fax number is in previous posts but I can post it again if you'd like..
My fax was sent in english and google translated (bad) to german also.
But his assistant speaks english so no problem with that.
If I get no luck in spiez...I'll try for CAA with citi's anomloscope and CAD but I don't see a big future on it..
We'll see...
Keep trying
At first I had that answering machine in germat but I then sent a letter and a fax there to book the appointment and they returned me a call to confirm dates.
The issue with the machine is that they turn it on on non-working hours and that's what the message says
The fax number is in previous posts but I can post it again if you'd like..
My fax was sent in english and google translated (bad) to german also.
But his assistant speaks english so no problem with that.
If I get no luck in spiez...I'll try for CAA with citi's anomloscope and CAD but I don't see a big future on it..
We'll see...
Keep trying
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city uni and gatwick.
hey everyone
just back from london. Needless to say i failed misserably. Went to city uni and they were a great help. I'm somewhere in the middle between a severe case and a mild case. I did the cad test and it does seem a little stupid because alot of it is guess work. They even told me i should have to guess about 50% of the time! They said that people with normal vision would have to do this also. What sense does that make?!! Turns out i'm green defficient. I asked in gatwick about my anamaloscope result but they were unsure about it and told me e-mail Mr shorley who is head of the CAA opthamology and he would tell me if my results were acceptable. So i'll try that. Ponte you should do that too. My result said range 0-33, anyone know if that is good or bad or if its within the jaa pass criteria? cheers
just back from london. Needless to say i failed misserably. Went to city uni and they were a great help. I'm somewhere in the middle between a severe case and a mild case. I did the cad test and it does seem a little stupid because alot of it is guess work. They even told me i should have to guess about 50% of the time! They said that people with normal vision would have to do this also. What sense does that make?!! Turns out i'm green defficient. I asked in gatwick about my anamaloscope result but they were unsure about it and told me e-mail Mr shorley who is head of the CAA opthamology and he would tell me if my results were acceptable. So i'll try that. Ponte you should do that too. My result said range 0-33, anyone know if that is good or bad or if its within the jaa pass criteria? cheers
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FAI Dubendorf, Switzerland (Ishihara Color Vision Test)
Dear all,
i'd be nice, if someone could shed some light on the following issue:
I'll shortly require a new class 2 medical, which will require an examination at the Fliegeraerztliches Institut (FAI) in Duebendorf, Switzerland.
I've already been there once about 12 years ago. I failed miserably at the Ishihara color vision test plates and susequently had to do the the spectrolux test (which I passed).
Does anyone know if they still use the (bl****, sorry!) Ishihara test there? If so, whether it is the 14, 24 or 38 plate edition?
I figured out that some training upfront might do the trick...*
Any help appreciated, thanks!
Regards,
gofast333
* Don't worry, I'm not heading for pilot. But I need the medical to be allowed as a crew member.
i'd be nice, if someone could shed some light on the following issue:
I'll shortly require a new class 2 medical, which will require an examination at the Fliegeraerztliches Institut (FAI) in Duebendorf, Switzerland.
I've already been there once about 12 years ago. I failed miserably at the Ishihara color vision test plates and susequently had to do the the spectrolux test (which I passed).
Does anyone know if they still use the (bl****, sorry!) Ishihara test there? If so, whether it is the 14, 24 or 38 plate edition?
I figured out that some training upfront might do the trick...*
Any help appreciated, thanks!
Regards,
gofast333
* Don't worry, I'm not heading for pilot. But I need the medical to be allowed as a crew member.
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niallp your range for the Nagel seems a bit odd starting at 0. Mine at city uni was a matching range of 27 - 31 however I am still no wiser as where this leaves me with the JAA.
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Guys,
You are missing a very critical point!!.
Your Spectrolux or any other test that you may pass elsewhere is worthless if the CAA Medics get their way.
They want to introduce the CAD Test at every medical with no grandfather rights under the pretext of using it to look for other underlying medical conditions.
Anyone who has obtained a medical stands to potentially lose it at their next medical - remember that colour vision can be affected temporarily by many factors - I have already discussed this with working CPLs in the UK who have stated quite unequivocally that they intend to sue if their medical is revoked.
Do these people at the CAA have no shame whatsoever? They will do anything to feather their own nest, at the cost of God knows how many jobs. Even if one person loses his job that is unforgiveable and I could not even begin to express my contempt should that be the case.
You are missing a very critical point!!.
Your Spectrolux or any other test that you may pass elsewhere is worthless if the CAA Medics get their way.
They want to introduce the CAD Test at every medical with no grandfather rights under the pretext of using it to look for other underlying medical conditions.
Anyone who has obtained a medical stands to potentially lose it at their next medical - remember that colour vision can be affected temporarily by many factors - I have already discussed this with working CPLs in the UK who have stated quite unequivocally that they intend to sue if their medical is revoked.
Do these people at the CAA have no shame whatsoever? They will do anything to feather their own nest, at the cost of God knows how many jobs. Even if one person loses his job that is unforgiveable and I could not even begin to express my contempt should that be the case.
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CAD
2Close,
you have done the CAD right?
What's your CVD deut, protan?
The tests show that CAD has a larger percentage for passing CVD.
I'm going for spectrolux since I already passed CAD.
Of course it is another exam but I'll have to live with my chances.
Good luck
you have done the CAD right?
What's your CVD deut, protan?
The tests show that CAD has a larger percentage for passing CVD.
I'm going for spectrolux since I already passed CAD.
Of course it is another exam but I'll have to live with my chances.
Good luck
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Cad result
ponte,
How do u know u passed tha cad test? It hasnt been introduced yet so theres no pass or fail limits! I did it and was just given a relust. What did u get? I think mine was 7.10.
How do u know u passed tha cad test? It hasnt been introduced yet so theres no pass or fail limits! I did it and was just given a relust. What did u get? I think mine was 7.10.