Collective Colour Vision Thread 3
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Well I think I may have the dubious distinction of being the first to sit the CAD test today and I passed (well within the required limits)
I am protonamous and have tried all of the other tests including spectrolux without any luck . I also took part in the City Uni trials.
I knew I could fly a PAPI or VASI but it has taken 14 years for confirmation of that. I do believe that this new test is founded on some scientific fact and related to aviation critical tasks. I do not believe that colours in aviation are that critical but this is the only test that has provided me with a positive result.
I would commend the test to you guys and wish you all the best of luck
As for me I am very pleased that my conviction has been proved correct. Do not let anyone stop you from doing something that you know you can safely do.
My battle is over but now I have a new battle to study for ATPL and follow the dream.
I am protonamous and have tried all of the other tests including spectrolux without any luck . I also took part in the City Uni trials.
I knew I could fly a PAPI or VASI but it has taken 14 years for confirmation of that. I do believe that this new test is founded on some scientific fact and related to aviation critical tasks. I do not believe that colours in aviation are that critical but this is the only test that has provided me with a positive result.
I would commend the test to you guys and wish you all the best of luck
As for me I am very pleased that my conviction has been proved correct. Do not let anyone stop you from doing something that you know you can safely do.
My battle is over but now I have a new battle to study for ATPL and follow the dream.
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CAD results
Hey, congrats belowradar.
After over a year of waiting, a letter from the CAA came through the door this morning. I have also passed the CAD test.
I went to Gatwick many moons ago in 2008 specifically for the lantern test, which I failed. i was then invited to take the CAD immediately after...which i did. And finally after a long time waiting the results were finally handed to me.
I have a small deutan deficiency with a threshold of: 2.98 (r-g) and 1.35 (y-b)
With the letter came my updated medical certificate with no restrictions or limitations on it.
All the best guys if your depending on CAD results to further your careers
After over a year of waiting, a letter from the CAA came through the door this morning. I have also passed the CAD test.
I went to Gatwick many moons ago in 2008 specifically for the lantern test, which I failed. i was then invited to take the CAD immediately after...which i did. And finally after a long time waiting the results were finally handed to me.
I have a small deutan deficiency with a threshold of: 2.98 (r-g) and 1.35 (y-b)
With the letter came my updated medical certificate with no restrictions or limitations on it.
All the best guys if your depending on CAD results to further your careers
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Dombeaumont
Looks like you hold the honour of first to pass CAD
cONGRATULATIONS !
I feel that this is a positive step in the right direction for CVD pilots at long last
Suggest others schedule their tests ASAP and best of luck to you all
Looks like you hold the honour of first to pass CAD
cONGRATULATIONS !
I feel that this is a positive step in the right direction for CVD pilots at long last
Suggest others schedule their tests ASAP and best of luck to you all
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cvd database
I would like to remark what Dr. Arthut Pape posted. He was very useful and has lot of experience in Australia and colorvision tests.
We should create a color defective pilot list and gather against currency regulations; all of us who has this color problems know for sure that we can safely flight every airplane at day or night, even better than most of pilots do.
I can't understand how different are the standars in each country; flying an airplane is the same anywhere. ICAO should work HARDER on this.
US allow pilots to take a signal light test at the airports... I would like to know how many pilots use this lights nowadays, many of them don't even remember what colors mean. This signal lights where used in the beginning of aviation where airplanes don't have radios. It can't never be used in IFR conditions and i can assure you that pilots approaching an airport can't even see this tiny lights from the tower.
Keep posting and disscussing this topic; if we stop, the world aviation will lose millions of incredible and passionate pilots.
We should create a color defective pilot list and gather against currency regulations; all of us who has this color problems know for sure that we can safely flight every airplane at day or night, even better than most of pilots do.
I can't understand how different are the standars in each country; flying an airplane is the same anywhere. ICAO should work HARDER on this.
US allow pilots to take a signal light test at the airports... I would like to know how many pilots use this lights nowadays, many of them don't even remember what colors mean. This signal lights where used in the beginning of aviation where airplanes don't have radios. It can't never be used in IFR conditions and i can assure you that pilots approaching an airport can't even see this tiny lights from the tower.
Keep posting and disscussing this topic; if we stop, the world aviation will lose millions of incredible and passionate pilots.
that was exactly my intention when creating deleted link to other forum.......again A cvd database of knowledge exchange, defect pilots flying and career oportunities. Also I would love to hate people from CASA, FAA and EASA help me out filling the info missing regarding current color vision standards for each place.
please take a look at the site and share it with everyone you can.
Last edited by Bad medicine; 11th Sep 2009 at 10:19. Reason: Deleted link to other forum
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During the CAD test you follow a pattern of colours as they move from the middle to a corner of a box area, You click a button to denote which corner.
You may well not see all of the colours but don't be concerned this is to be expected. Just click a "guess" to move to the next light test. The program will work out what you are getting wrong based on incorrect guesses and will focus on that deficient area to identify degree of colour deficiency.
You may well not see all of the colours but don't be concerned this is to be expected. Just click a "guess" to move to the next light test. The program will work out what you are getting wrong based on incorrect guesses and will focus on that deficient area to identify degree of colour deficiency.
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CAD test in Gatwick
Hi everybody!! I´m an spanish CVD pilot with a JAA class 2 medical restricted. I would like to book an apointment in Gatwick to take the CAD test and try it. Anybody knows the way to do it?, the telephone number, they admited non british citizen? And if I´ll pass and get class 1 unrestricted is validated in all JAA members??
Thanks a lot. You can send me a PM....thanks again
Thanks a lot. You can send me a PM....thanks again
The Myths of the CAD
I apologize from the start for this long posting. I have been watching the traffic on the new CAD test, both on this thread and on the CAA UK website where the origininal documents are readily available. Here is the problem with CAD: it is yet another colour vision test, nothing more and nothing less. It has no resemblance or relevance to any of the complex psycho-motor tasks that pilots perform in the "safe performance of their duties". IT IS A RED HERRING. We have pilots in Australia, the USA and in the rest of the world who would not pass the CAD (because they are dichromats- the most severe of colour defectives) and yet they are in command of Airbuses, Boeings, Embraers, Pilatus, Metros, DASH 8's and so forth. They undergo exactly the same demanding and thorough ongoing assessments in check flights and simulator sessions as their colour normal peers, and they perform no differently, let alone, less safely. The entire colour perception standard issue has been a massive con since its inception ninety years ago.
While I am pleased for those who have already passed the CAD, and therefore have no further barriers to their aviation career aspirations, it is still a total irrelevance to the fundamental debate about the ICAO colour perception standard.
On another issue, I am amazed at how few people appear to be subscribed to this thread. If we start from the sure knowledge that between 8-10% of males are colour defective, there have to be nearly a million in Australia alone, let alone several million in the UK, and again in the USA and many more millions in Europe. That's not taking into account the other continents. If only a tiny one percent of the CVD population wish to engage in an aviation career, there have to be many many hundreds of thousands who are being denied any participation in professional aviation on the basis of colour perception defects. Where are they all? Why isn't this group of human beings who are being discriminated against so shabbily up in arms and beating down the doors of their parliaments and the courts for justice. I don't get it!
Perhaps it is because they don't "look" colour defective, so the discrimination can be effected silently, popping off one at a time, with not a whimper. We are not "organized" except in the most rudimentary of ways, such as this PPRune thread. We have no organization that we can belong to, and through it, exert real influence. And therein lies our fundamental weakness. On the other hand, the Aviaiton Authorities from all over the world regularly get together to pat each other on the back, and to concoct ever more restrictive policies. Take for example the JAA efforts in recent years. How did it ever happen that perfect colour vision came to be written into their regulations? Where were we, and what did anyone do to stop it? I just don't get it. We will never ever succeed in the removal of the colour perception standard while we continue to be such a disorganized bunch. That's not to be critical of anyone, its just that we have never organized ourselves into an effective group.
The reason we had significant success in Australia 20 years ago was because we had a dedicated and generous group of CVD pilots who stood up for themselves, and took the matter to the courts for independent adjudication. We WON because we acted on our beliefs that we are as safe as pilots as those with normal colour vision. We won, because the fundamental logic that underpins the ICAO standard is flawed, and any thinking person can see that when it is demonstrated properly. This process can be replicated in other countries, but it takes dedication and a lot of work (and money).
So, what I am asking is this: where are the activists who can organize a huge group, get the lawyers to start work on serious legal action, talk to the politicians and start to be heard. If we wait for the CAA's and the FAA's to sort it out for us, we will wait into eternity: it's never going to happen.
I've seen some early effort to create a cvdpilot website, a very worthwhile project. "Ponte" deserves support in his effort and I encourage everyone to get behind this and to make it work. There must be thousands out there who can contibute to the IT technology to make this a reality. There must be thousands too who have access to knowledge about their legal systems in their own countries so that avenues of appeal can be opened. Don't forget, the lawyers, the politicians, the doctors, the judges are also CVD at the rate of 8-10%.
Finally, let me suggest that a worldwide and well run Association of CVD Pilots could do great work towards the removal of the discrimination that IS the ICAO colour perception standard. Let me respectfully suggest we stop talking about how we are going to be "executed" (eg by CAD), and start planning how to win the battle.
I appreciate the need of many to remain anonymous, but in the end it serves no good purpose. If we want to be effective, we need to "meet" properly, either face to face, but letter or in cyberspace. We need to know each other, to commence the enormous task that lie ahead if we are going to win. We need to affiliate (which means to become brothers). It's impossible to do that behind pseudonyms. I welcome emails to my private email address.
Have a lovely day!!
Cheers,
Arthur Pape
While I am pleased for those who have already passed the CAD, and therefore have no further barriers to their aviation career aspirations, it is still a total irrelevance to the fundamental debate about the ICAO colour perception standard.
On another issue, I am amazed at how few people appear to be subscribed to this thread. If we start from the sure knowledge that between 8-10% of males are colour defective, there have to be nearly a million in Australia alone, let alone several million in the UK, and again in the USA and many more millions in Europe. That's not taking into account the other continents. If only a tiny one percent of the CVD population wish to engage in an aviation career, there have to be many many hundreds of thousands who are being denied any participation in professional aviation on the basis of colour perception defects. Where are they all? Why isn't this group of human beings who are being discriminated against so shabbily up in arms and beating down the doors of their parliaments and the courts for justice. I don't get it!
Perhaps it is because they don't "look" colour defective, so the discrimination can be effected silently, popping off one at a time, with not a whimper. We are not "organized" except in the most rudimentary of ways, such as this PPRune thread. We have no organization that we can belong to, and through it, exert real influence. And therein lies our fundamental weakness. On the other hand, the Aviaiton Authorities from all over the world regularly get together to pat each other on the back, and to concoct ever more restrictive policies. Take for example the JAA efforts in recent years. How did it ever happen that perfect colour vision came to be written into their regulations? Where were we, and what did anyone do to stop it? I just don't get it. We will never ever succeed in the removal of the colour perception standard while we continue to be such a disorganized bunch. That's not to be critical of anyone, its just that we have never organized ourselves into an effective group.
The reason we had significant success in Australia 20 years ago was because we had a dedicated and generous group of CVD pilots who stood up for themselves, and took the matter to the courts for independent adjudication. We WON because we acted on our beliefs that we are as safe as pilots as those with normal colour vision. We won, because the fundamental logic that underpins the ICAO standard is flawed, and any thinking person can see that when it is demonstrated properly. This process can be replicated in other countries, but it takes dedication and a lot of work (and money).
So, what I am asking is this: where are the activists who can organize a huge group, get the lawyers to start work on serious legal action, talk to the politicians and start to be heard. If we wait for the CAA's and the FAA's to sort it out for us, we will wait into eternity: it's never going to happen.
I've seen some early effort to create a cvdpilot website, a very worthwhile project. "Ponte" deserves support in his effort and I encourage everyone to get behind this and to make it work. There must be thousands out there who can contibute to the IT technology to make this a reality. There must be thousands too who have access to knowledge about their legal systems in their own countries so that avenues of appeal can be opened. Don't forget, the lawyers, the politicians, the doctors, the judges are also CVD at the rate of 8-10%.
Finally, let me suggest that a worldwide and well run Association of CVD Pilots could do great work towards the removal of the discrimination that IS the ICAO colour perception standard. Let me respectfully suggest we stop talking about how we are going to be "executed" (eg by CAD), and start planning how to win the battle.
I appreciate the need of many to remain anonymous, but in the end it serves no good purpose. If we want to be effective, we need to "meet" properly, either face to face, but letter or in cyberspace. We need to know each other, to commence the enormous task that lie ahead if we are going to win. We need to affiliate (which means to become brothers). It's impossible to do that behind pseudonyms. I welcome emails to my private email address.
Have a lovely day!!
Cheers,
Arthur Pape
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Arthur,
Good post and I heartily agree with what you are saying. From my own experience the two main barriers have been
1 - Cost of legal action (minimum of tens of thousands of pounds)
2 - Lack of political will (individuals care but society doesn't care about this issue) however I take your point that we (cvd) make up society so we need to work together in larger groups.
The CAD test worked for me but it is just another test to tell us what we already know.
I think that your information on professional career airline pilots who are safely flying will carry a lot of weight and can prove that the legislation is unnecessary.
From my own perspective I have been denied a career for 14 years as I was deemed colour unsafe and now the new CAD test officially confirms that I am indeed colour safe so I am thinking that for 14 years the authorities got it wrong and I must be anle to claim compensation for being denied the right to work as a professional pilot. Now if any legal CVD pilots out there can assist me with pursuing that avenue I would be most grateful. Perhaps that would provide a "trigger" for wider challenging andf possible discrediting of the current restrictions (please PM if you are a UK lawyer and think you can help).
I have posted you my details and I hope that other pilots will send you their details as well !
Good post and I heartily agree with what you are saying. From my own experience the two main barriers have been
1 - Cost of legal action (minimum of tens of thousands of pounds)
2 - Lack of political will (individuals care but society doesn't care about this issue) however I take your point that we (cvd) make up society so we need to work together in larger groups.
The CAD test worked for me but it is just another test to tell us what we already know.
I think that your information on professional career airline pilots who are safely flying will carry a lot of weight and can prove that the legislation is unnecessary.
From my own perspective I have been denied a career for 14 years as I was deemed colour unsafe and now the new CAD test officially confirms that I am indeed colour safe so I am thinking that for 14 years the authorities got it wrong and I must be anle to claim compensation for being denied the right to work as a professional pilot. Now if any legal CVD pilots out there can assist me with pursuing that avenue I would be most grateful. Perhaps that would provide a "trigger" for wider challenging andf possible discrediting of the current restrictions (please PM if you are a UK lawyer and think you can help).
I have posted you my details and I hope that other pilots will send you their details as well !
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hong kong cvd standards
hey guys,
just wondering does anyone know anything about the cvd requirements for hong kong? Cathay Pacific have a cadet pilot scheme which sounds inviting but i've no idea about the regulations in Asia. Would it be similar to europe or would they have practical testing like FAA or CASA? I had a good search around the net but couldn't find much. If anyone knows anything could they let me know. Thanks again,
Niall
just wondering does anyone know anything about the cvd requirements for hong kong? Cathay Pacific have a cadet pilot scheme which sounds inviting but i've no idea about the regulations in Asia. Would it be similar to europe or would they have practical testing like FAA or CASA? I had a good search around the net but couldn't find much. If anyone knows anything could they let me know. Thanks again,
Niall
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Excellent post Arthur Pape.
We should all register in removed link to other forum; it's the easiest way to create a big database. We will be in contact for news, questions, and everything related with this particular issue.
If we need something it should be all the information in that page and we could share our experience.
Such as Dr. Pape said, CAD and all test are just color vision test. We know that we are colorblindness! We don't need a test to prove that! But what we all know (and that's why we keep fighting) is that we can safely fly an airplane!
The FAA said that if you are able to see the signal lights from the tower you're color safe.
This is a complete lose of responsibility from them. That lights are not used anymore, it's almost impossible for a pilot approaching to a huge airport to see that tiny lights. You even need a perfect meteorological condition to see them!!!
I'm tired of this. But keep fighting; keep it alive; we will succeed because we know we can fly safely.
Daniel.
We should all register in removed link to other forum; it's the easiest way to create a big database. We will be in contact for news, questions, and everything related with this particular issue.
If we need something it should be all the information in that page and we could share our experience.
Such as Dr. Pape said, CAD and all test are just color vision test. We know that we are colorblindness! We don't need a test to prove that! But what we all know (and that's why we keep fighting) is that we can safely fly an airplane!
The FAA said that if you are able to see the signal lights from the tower you're color safe.
This is a complete lose of responsibility from them. That lights are not used anymore, it's almost impossible for a pilot approaching to a huge airport to see that tiny lights. You even need a perfect meteorological condition to see them!!!
I'm tired of this. But keep fighting; keep it alive; we will succeed because we know we can fly safely.
Daniel.
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Quick Q...I'm going to do the Farnsworth Lantern test next.... I passed it many years ago and have to do it again now....
Can someone tell me... Are the 3 colors (red, green, white) all the same shade and brightness, I can't remember...
Cheers,
VTA
Can someone tell me... Are the 3 colors (red, green, white) all the same shade and brightness, I can't remember...
Cheers,
VTA
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I am applying for a license in a different country and even though I passed the Lantern test 20 years ago in to fly in the Brit military, I failed the Ishira plate test in this new country and they won't accept the previous test from the UK 
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Cure for colour blindness
The BBC report that need money posted is "interesting" but I feel that a cure for CVD is not needed and a waste of time.
My own colour vision is perhaps worse than some on this forum, but I live in a world of colour and it does not hamper me in any tasks in life (except a European flight medical, and some jobs I am now to old for) so even if this was available today I would not be having it done (the CAA would not accept it for a decade or two anyhow).
What is needed is a non discriminatory approach to colour vision so that we can all get on with what we have the abilities to do.
My own colour vision is perhaps worse than some on this forum, but I live in a world of colour and it does not hamper me in any tasks in life (except a European flight medical, and some jobs I am now to old for) so even if this was available today I would not be having it done (the CAA would not accept it for a decade or two anyhow).
What is needed is a non discriminatory approach to colour vision so that we can all get on with what we have the abilities to do.
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First of all thanks to everyone for posting such useful info here.
I took the CAD recently and passed (just). if your deficiency in a color falls within a defined range (between 4 and 7 i think) on the first test, like mine did for red green, they will re-test you on those colours a further three times, then take an average of the four readings. This can feel like something of a marathon or can be over relatively quickly, depending on how quickly you respond and how often you hit the middle button (which shows you the image again).
My advice to those about to take the test is don't rush into it, take your time and make sure you understand exactly what you're supposed to do before beginning.
Try not to press the middle button too often or the examiner will get a bit
tut tutty but you can use it now and again if you weren't concentrating and miss the direction. There isn't a penalty for pressing the black button and no defined limit but the rules state you shouldn't be using it an unreasonable amount of times. I was a bit liberal with it on my first test until I was told off and had to press it less on subsequent goes (the test takes ages otherwise).
Unfortunately couldn't get my medical on the day due to some issue with the ECG but here's hoping it will be given the all clear by the heart specialist.
Good luck to those reading this and thinking about taking the test.
I took the CAD recently and passed (just). if your deficiency in a color falls within a defined range (between 4 and 7 i think) on the first test, like mine did for red green, they will re-test you on those colours a further three times, then take an average of the four readings. This can feel like something of a marathon or can be over relatively quickly, depending on how quickly you respond and how often you hit the middle button (which shows you the image again).
My advice to those about to take the test is don't rush into it, take your time and make sure you understand exactly what you're supposed to do before beginning.
Try not to press the middle button too often or the examiner will get a bit
tut tutty but you can use it now and again if you weren't concentrating and miss the direction. There isn't a penalty for pressing the black button and no defined limit but the rules state you shouldn't be using it an unreasonable amount of times. I was a bit liberal with it on my first test until I was told off and had to press it less on subsequent goes (the test takes ages otherwise).Unfortunately couldn't get my medical on the day due to some issue with the ECG but here's hoping it will be given the all clear by the heart specialist.
Good luck to those reading this and thinking about taking the test.
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but the rules state you shouldn't be using it an unreasonable amount of times
Firstly, you CAN pass by guessing (even if you are 100% totally blind) and now we find the words 'shouldn't' and 'unreasonable' written into the instructions for use.
These are completely subjective.
How much more NON-SCIENTIFIC can this be.
This is supposed, no, CLAIMED, to be the gold standard in colour vision testing, then make it that.
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Where 2 take the CAD test?
Please! I´m an spanish CVD pilot, and I would like 2 know where the CAD test is administrated: In the City Uni or in Gatwick...thanks!! How to make an appointment?