VISION THREAD (other than colour vision)
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Sorry to hear that Tel Boy,
But all is not lost.
You can still hold a Class 1 medical with Daytime and No Public Transport limitations only which will still allow you to carry out aerial work, i.e. crop spraying, banner towing, parachutist drops and flying instruction.
The only problem you may have is that you also need a CPL to be paid and a CPL requires 5 x hours of night flying but there must be a way around it otherwise the allowance of aerial work by the CAA would be a moot point.
If you are interested in instructing I'd suggest calling the CAA and asking them how you get around that problem.
Best of luck,
2close
But all is not lost.
You can still hold a Class 1 medical with Daytime and No Public Transport limitations only which will still allow you to carry out aerial work, i.e. crop spraying, banner towing, parachutist drops and flying instruction.
The only problem you may have is that you also need a CPL to be paid and a CPL requires 5 x hours of night flying but there must be a way around it otherwise the allowance of aerial work by the CAA would be a moot point.
If you are interested in instructing I'd suggest calling the CAA and asking them how you get around that problem.
Best of luck,
2close
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Nick,
Look at this from an objective standpoint and play Harry the Bast**d in a strict devil's advocate manner.
Try to find a reason why these lenses should not be allowed in the cockpit environment, thinking of how they may interact with existing colours in daylight and at night, both inside (PFDs, Caution / Warning lights, Maps) and outside the cockpit (Runway and Approach lighting, PAPI / VASI, aircraft lighting).
Once you've identified a reason you've answered your question. The CAA will bend over backwards to try and find such a reason.
2close
Look at this from an objective standpoint and play Harry the Bast**d in a strict devil's advocate manner.
Try to find a reason why these lenses should not be allowed in the cockpit environment, thinking of how they may interact with existing colours in daylight and at night, both inside (PFDs, Caution / Warning lights, Maps) and outside the cockpit (Runway and Approach lighting, PAPI / VASI, aircraft lighting).
Once you've identified a reason you've answered your question. The CAA will bend over backwards to try and find such a reason.
2close
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Unfortunately, I agree with "most" of what you say 
However for all those who suffer from CVD I do feel that they are being discriminated against quite harshly and in todays society I think this is very disappointing ( he says with his rose tinted glasses on) 
I can totally understand peoples frustration relating to this and vision correction e.g. if you can correct distance vision, why not CVD. but i unfortunately feel that all people are doing is
The aviation profession is a privileged one no question about it, but the CAA need to realise that they are the ones "treading on thin ice" I am personally aware of atleast 3 people who attended Med school with me, all had mild deuteranopia (red-green CVD) and all are now practising surgeons, and yet the General Medical Council who lets be honest, should know what they are talking about take certain types of CVD into account and allow people to practise medicine who suffer CVD
However for all those who suffer from CVD I do feel that they are being discriminated against quite harshly and in todays society I think this is very disappointing ( he says with his rose tinted glasses on) I can totally understand peoples frustration relating to this and vision correction e.g. if you can correct distance vision, why not CVD. but i unfortunately feel that all people are doing is
The aviation profession is a privileged one no question about it, but the CAA need to realise that they are the ones "treading on thin ice" I am personally aware of atleast 3 people who attended Med school with me, all had mild deuteranopia (red-green CVD) and all are now practising surgeons, and yet the General Medical Council who lets be honest, should know what they are talking about take certain types of CVD into account and allow people to practise medicine who suffer CVD
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Nick,
There's a PM from you in my Inbox but there seems to be a problem retrieving it - I don't know whether this is a permanent problem or a temporary issue
with the PPRuNe site or an issue with my Inbox itself.
Could you try it again please.
Cheers,
2close
There's a PM from you in my Inbox but there seems to be a problem retrieving it - I don't know whether this is a permanent problem or a temporary issue
with the PPRuNe site or an issue with my Inbox itself.
Could you try it again please.
Cheers,
2close
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Class 1 RENEWALS
It is seen here that many after failing the UK colour vision tests at Gatwick have gone to other full JAA countries and passed their tests. I understand that the UK CAA will then change that countries medical for an unrestricted UK medical.
My question is - what about renewals? The CAA will have you under your CAA reference as CP4. When you go to renew a class 1 is there any problems? or would you have to go back to the country you passed the colour vision tests in to renew and again change this to CAA?
My question is - what about renewals? The CAA will have you under your CAA reference as CP4. When you go to renew a class 1 is there any problems? or would you have to go back to the country you passed the colour vision tests in to renew and again change this to CAA?
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The CAA will NO LONGER change a JAA Medical from another member state purely on the basis of having passed that member state's colour vision tests. They closed this loophole several months ago.
They will now only issue you with a JAA CPL including the unrestricted Class 1 medical if you have already obtained the CPL in another member state.
So if you fail the CV tests at Gatwick and pass them in another JAA member state you will also need to undertake the ground and flight training in that member state and get a CPL issued by that state - only at this point will the CAA consider issuing you an unrestricted medical. Once you've gone through all the hoops of obtaining the CPL from another member state all you're doing then is changing State of Licence Issue to your country of residence.
If you go to another member state first, pass the CV tests then try to change it to a CAA issued medical they will still put you through the extended Class 1 medical which includes CV testing.
Sorry to be the bearer of more bad news but I had the info directly from the horse's mouth, about 6 weeks ago.
They will now only issue you with a JAA CPL including the unrestricted Class 1 medical if you have already obtained the CPL in another member state.
So if you fail the CV tests at Gatwick and pass them in another JAA member state you will also need to undertake the ground and flight training in that member state and get a CPL issued by that state - only at this point will the CAA consider issuing you an unrestricted medical. Once you've gone through all the hoops of obtaining the CPL from another member state all you're doing then is changing State of Licence Issue to your country of residence.
If you go to another member state first, pass the CV tests then try to change it to a CAA issued medical they will still put you through the extended Class 1 medical which includes CV testing.
Sorry to be the bearer of more bad news but I had the info directly from the horse's mouth, about 6 weeks ago.
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2close, Is this correct?
It is my understanding, as you quite rightly point out that you cannot simply pass CV tests in another country and then ask for the CAA to take the results of these into account for a UK CAA Class 1.
However I also understand that you do not need to have say a German (or any other JAA member state) CPL/ATPL before the UK CAA will convert a full class 1 medical in another member state to a UK one.
So, if I haven't confused you already as I understand it you are able to convert a JAR medical to a UK one as an administrative exercise without having to have completed CPL / ATPL studies in that JAR country.
As always I stand to be corrected.
It is my understanding, as you quite rightly point out that you cannot simply pass CV tests in another country and then ask for the CAA to take the results of these into account for a UK CAA Class 1.
However I also understand that you do not need to have say a German (or any other JAA member state) CPL/ATPL before the UK CAA will convert a full class 1 medical in another member state to a UK one.
So, if I haven't confused you already as I understand it you are able to convert a JAR medical to a UK one as an administrative exercise without having to have completed CPL / ATPL studies in that JAR country.
As always I stand to be corrected.
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Firstly, to answer Biggles, regrettably that is the case. The CAA cottoned on to the fact that persons failing their CVD tests were going overseas to other JAA member states, passing the tests there and applying to change those foreign issued JAA medicals back to UK issued ones.
So they slammed the door closed on it and will now only exchange a full JAA CPL complete with medical certificate from another member state for a UK issued JAA CPL plus medical (at which point you are only expected to undertake the Class 1 RENEWAL medical, which does not include the CVD tests - what they're doing I think is absolving themselves of any legal liability by slopey-shouldering the responsibility on to the original testing State of Licence Issue). Let's face it, that's what they are far more interested in these days than actual, real safety issues.
Of course, you can exchange the medical without having completed a CPL or the ground studies but it is now a little more than an administrative exercise and if you wish to simply exchange the medical they will require you to undertake the EXTENDED Class 1 medical which DOES include the CVD tests.
Windforce, I'm not quite sure exactly what you mean - could you be a little more specific, please?
So they slammed the door closed on it and will now only exchange a full JAA CPL complete with medical certificate from another member state for a UK issued JAA CPL plus medical (at which point you are only expected to undertake the Class 1 RENEWAL medical, which does not include the CVD tests - what they're doing I think is absolving themselves of any legal liability by slopey-shouldering the responsibility on to the original testing State of Licence Issue). Let's face it, that's what they are far more interested in these days than actual, real safety issues.
Of course, you can exchange the medical without having completed a CPL or the ground studies but it is now a little more than an administrative exercise and if you wish to simply exchange the medical they will require you to undertake the EXTENDED Class 1 medical which DOES include the CVD tests.
Windforce, I'm not quite sure exactly what you mean - could you be a little more specific, please?
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This is strange because the last I heard of it the CAA were actively telling people who failed their CV tests to try another JAA state. I wonder what has made them suddenly change their mind on the subject. Its still perfectly legal and within the regulations.
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Hi Blinkz,
My conversation directly with the CAA was less than 2 months ago and I clearly understood that the loophole had just then been closed - it was related to me exactly as I have stated here. As I said, if there are any doubts please feel free to call them.
WF,
If you have a UK Issued JAA CPL with restrictions and go to another member state they WILL see those restrictions when you try to change the State of Licence Issue (SOLI).
You will of course require a medical issued by the new SOLI and it is standard JAA practice for one country's AMC to contact another's AMC; in fact I believe they are required to when changing SOLI. If you pass the new country's medical including the CVD tests then it should not be a problem - I would have thought the new country would simply issue you with an unrestricted CPL. But of course, when they note the deviations they may simply refuse as Deviations are peculiar to the SOLI and are not transferable - in fact the UK is the only JAA member state that permits Deviations for CVD.
Biggles, contradictory information from within the CAA - surely you cannot be serious, man!!! Note slight hint of sarcasm!! But I will make a point of checking this when I am down at Gatwick next week and speak to the people F2F. I will report back in due course.
My conversation directly with the CAA was less than 2 months ago and I clearly understood that the loophole had just then been closed - it was related to me exactly as I have stated here. As I said, if there are any doubts please feel free to call them.
WF,
If you have a UK Issued JAA CPL with restrictions and go to another member state they WILL see those restrictions when you try to change the State of Licence Issue (SOLI).
You will of course require a medical issued by the new SOLI and it is standard JAA practice for one country's AMC to contact another's AMC; in fact I believe they are required to when changing SOLI. If you pass the new country's medical including the CVD tests then it should not be a problem - I would have thought the new country would simply issue you with an unrestricted CPL. But of course, when they note the deviations they may simply refuse as Deviations are peculiar to the SOLI and are not transferable - in fact the UK is the only JAA member state that permits Deviations for CVD.
Biggles, contradictory information from within the CAA - surely you cannot be serious, man!!! Note slight hint of sarcasm!! But I will make a point of checking this when I am down at Gatwick next week and speak to the people F2F. I will report back in due course.
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colourblindgeek
In reply to your post, I also took the city uni tests last month. They told me that they would be sending data to the CAA at the end of April (not long now). However I was allowed a retest at Gatwick two weeks ago, and failed miserably. When I asked about new tests, they simply said that they have no intention of changing in the near future.
I would NOT put any hopes at all on the new tests. The impression I got from the city uni team and reading the papers they have produced seems like they are simply producing a more reliable method of colour vision assesment. The CAA are regecting anyone who is not seen as having "normal" colour vision - so in short I do not think the new tests will be of any use to the likes of us.
Great attitude - keep talking, keep flying.
All the best
In reply to your post, I also took the city uni tests last month. They told me that they would be sending data to the CAA at the end of April (not long now). However I was allowed a retest at Gatwick two weeks ago, and failed miserably. When I asked about new tests, they simply said that they have no intention of changing in the near future.
I would NOT put any hopes at all on the new tests. The impression I got from the city uni team and reading the papers they have produced seems like they are simply producing a more reliable method of colour vision assesment. The CAA are regecting anyone who is not seen as having "normal" colour vision - so in short I do not think the new tests will be of any use to the likes of us.
Great attitude - keep talking, keep flying.
All the best
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2close do you know if you can just do the colour vision test abroad and the CAA to accept this, or do you need the full class 1 medical from the country doing the CV test.
Seems like if you pass the H W or Bayne abroad and the CAA are going to review it, you are going to need a whole lot of ammo behind you to give them a good reason to accept - anyone have any direct views from the JAA.
I guess this forum might see a bit more on this in the near future.
Seems like if you pass the H W or Bayne abroad and the CAA are going to review it, you are going to need a whole lot of ammo behind you to give them a good reason to accept - anyone have any direct views from the JAA.
I guess this forum might see a bit more on this in the near future.
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Colour Vision
Hello, im in a position where i have a passion for flying but am stuck with a medical that restricts me to an Austalian CPL, valid in AUS airspace only, due to CVD, are things going to change in the future where the rules may get more leanient to colour vision where i may hold an ATPL 1 day? if not whats a career like in GA for the next 40 years? any response greatly appreciated.........
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You should start by reading the 19 page Colour Vision thread on this very forum here:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=229604
Good luck.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=229604
Good luck.
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Mic747,
I live here in the UK and have been considering moving to Aus to get a CPL to fly. I'm a CVD and cannot get a class 1 medical here, thanks to the CAA (Campaign Against Aviation as we like to call them). The past 5 years have felt like this...
I live here in the UK and have been considering moving to Aus to get a CPL to fly. I'm a CVD and cannot get a class 1 medical here, thanks to the CAA (Campaign Against Aviation as we like to call them). The past 5 years have felt like this...