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European Flight Academy (EFA) selection experiences

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European Flight Academy (EFA) selection experiences

Old 22nd May 2020, 11:19
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 3
European Flight Academy (EFA) selection experiences

Hi friends, does anyone have tips for the EFA selection process? I'll be attending once they resume the selections (pandemic related).

They say they'll test your mathematics and physics knowledge. I'm not that bad at it, but I'd like to know what kind of tests they give you.

Maybe I can refresh my basic knowledge. I'm sure I'll get through the English speaking part and I'm good at interviews. The only thing I worry about is the maths and physics knowledge.

I appreciate any information! Thanks!
vischjager is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 20:20
  #2 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 1,347
Given the tsunami which has hit aviation, when do you anticipate gaining employment as a pilot?

If you can complete without incurring debt, in other words, you are cash rich, enjoy the course.
Don’t worry about any tests, you have past already.......l
parkfell is offline  
Old 23rd May 2020, 09:42
  #3 (permalink)  
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Join Date: May 2020
Location: Amsterdam
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This particular school has put the selections on hold at least until the end of this year. Financially this school will be doable.

What exactly do you mean with that I’ve passed already?
vischjager is offline  
Old 24th May 2020, 12:39
  #4 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: galway ireland
Posts: 119
I am sure Parkfell can answer eloquently for himself but there is a lot of discussion taking place across PPRuNe forums about possible training in the middle of this unprecedented coronavirus pandemic. The summary is that it will be very difficult for these newly qualified trainees to compete for the limited available future jobs against the sad but definite large numbers of unemployed experienced pilots and in particular that anyone considering integrated training and having to take loans would be strongly advised against this.
If money is no object then as long as people know the risk then of course integrated training can be considered but even then the backers ( in a lot of case parents) should be thinking very very carefully about the risk of paying for a training that certainly doesn't guarantee a job or return on investment.
The implication is that the training schools might be dropping their selection standards compared to the pre-Covid time in order to fill their places. Some training schools like many airlines may not survive and money spent with them may be lost- google cabair for just one example from the past.
I think any prospective trainee, and importantly their financial backer ( if they have one ) should spend a bit of time reading the posts related to this which are easily available on this site.This is definitely more important than any mathematics or physics you might study.

Last edited by kpd; 24th May 2020 at 19:45.
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Old 24th May 2020, 17:15
  #5 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Originally Posted by kpd View Post
. .......Some training schools like many airlines may not survive and money spent with them may be lost- google cabair for just one example from the past.......
kpd is quite right in drawing to everyone’s attention to the very unfortunate customers following the demise of Cabair first in 2011, followed by the Mark 2 variant the following year which clearly demonstrates the risk of paying large amounts up front.
£70k up front to the original Cabair, followed by a further £15k for those who wanted to complete their training in a restarted company. Google has the full sorry story.

Reasonable stages payments are normal practice.

As ever due diligence and caveat emptor ~ consider taking independent advice where appropriate.

Last edited by parkfell; 25th May 2020 at 07:23. Reason: Last sentence expanded
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 00:16
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 10
Went to the Interpersonal (Eurowings) assessment in November 2019 and both Physics and Math were fairly easy.

I'd say the Math tasks are like 7th grade level, nothing too complicated - and I'm terrible at Math. Same with physics, it's usually those questions that are common sense and you just have to think about a little bit before deciding for an answer. I can't go too much into detail here but I personally wouldn't worry too much about those. I always had terrible grades in school when it came to Maths and Physics and yet I had no problems at all.

I didn't pass the assessment but that was due to other things, I technically would've passed all the written stuff on the computer that day.
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Old 20th Jun 2020, 06:51
  #7 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Are you sure you don’t need to improve in certain subjects first, or choose an occupation which is none science based?
”the operation was a success but the patient died” might well sum up assessment day?
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Old 20th Jun 2020, 08:33
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 10
I did improve.
I‘m not going to get into a massive discussion here about whether or not you should keep chasing your dreams but in the end I failed due to the Mozard, and only the Mozard. It‘s also the one single thing you can‘t really train at home. Now, I‘m not saying it was someone else‘s fault because it wasn‘t - it was my fault and when I went to the pilot expo in March, I tried their Mozard Test again and passed it with outstanding results.

I agree that you should always come prepared when you have an important assessment coming up, but then again, there‘s only so much you can do and if you fail, this might be due to a lot of factors that don‘t necessarily tell you if you‘re ready for a job as a professional pilot. You might just have a bad day or have this one task that kind of destroys it all.

When I got my results, I talked to an A320 FO who worked for Eurowings and took care of us that day and he felt bad for me not passing because I had above average results in every single subject; except for the one that you couldn’t prepare for. He also told me not to give up as he definitely sees me in the cockpit and told me to continue with assessments, or even come back to EW in 2 years (which for me isn’t an option but it was nice to hear).

Meanwhile a lot has happened. I passed an assessment and also my Medical Class 1, now I have two more airline assessments coming up and see how it‘ll go. If it goes horribly wrong, I might consider switching career paths but I certainly won‘t let one failed assessment mess up my career path. If you fail your first assessment and decide not go keep trying, you should consider yourself lucky for not passing because you wouldn‘t be very successful in your job anyway as it requires a massive amount of dedication and hard work - I‘m sure every single person in this forum agrees with this.

In the end it doesn‘t seem so bad as I wouldn‘t start training with the LH group anyway due to what‘s currently happening and I have now instead decided to focus on smaller airlines and freight companies. What I‘m trying to say is, if you keep trying, you‘ll be successful eventually.

Plus, I went to the assessment knowing very well that I might not pass. It was a success for me either way as I simply wanted to know what airline assessments are like. The feeling, the pressure, the tasks.. that‘s what I was there for. It’s also the reason I went to the interpersonal test first - because you can come back to it in 2 years. Unlike the DLR, you can try again, which is always a nice option to have if you decide to do something else before becoming a pilot.

Oops, this has gotten way too long.
To come back to this topic - again, I personally had the feeling that tasks in maths and physics were easily doable and I‘m in no way an expert. I did prepare and laid my focus on +, -, x, :, which was the right decision for me personally.
Keep in mind, you don‘t get a calculator, so tasks can’t be too complex anyway.
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 12:00
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Europe
Posts: 57
Originally Posted by Pawly View Post
...now I have two more airline assessments coming up...
Mate are you for real, are those flightschools conning you or are you kidding yourself.
One thing the flightschools won't test these days is a sense of reality otherwise all applicants would fail.

'Discussion on wether or not you should keep chasing your dreams' is a perfect summary of the mindset of wannabes which the flighthschools live off.
The mindless "I wannaba piloit, is muh dream!!1, YoU hab to Chase ur dReams!!1" kiddos will keep coming anyway, just feed them the right amount of information to reinforce their confirmation bias and they'll sign at the dots.

You should do whatever you see fit if you have the money to spend, but if you have the take a loan from the bank or even worse, your family, then I doubt wether youre fit for the job, reasoning wise.
African_TrouserSnake is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2020, 13:56
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 10
I'm not talking about private flight schools, I'm talking about airline assessments.

Besides, why does it matter? I have planned my finances very well and know exactly what I'm getting into. Yes, private flight training might be risky due to the current situation, yes "chasing your dreams" might not have been worded very well as you need to know when to stop and realize that flight training might just not be for you but then again, how does anyone on this forum know how people are and what their finances look like? Also, what does this have to do with the original topic?

I simply said I failed one airline assessment and have a few more coming up, how does this determine that I (or anyone else for that matter) should stop trying to become a pilot and do something else instead? I just don't get it. Not a single pilot will tell you to stop when one thing doesn't work out - in fact, not a single person on earth should tell you that. It's never smart to just go for one source or opinion, you should always try a few times at least(!) to see if you're ready for it or not. I've met so many people (and pilots) who failed multiple times before being successful in their career and loving what they do now.

Don't be blind, don't let flight schools fool you, don't get a massive loan of 80k+ to then just give to a random flight school that told you everything's going to be fine - however, if you know your abilities, you have passed your medical, you can evaluate and understand your skills and you have a few sources that show you how it's done, then go ahead, plan your journey and always have a backup. That's what I do, that's what everyone else should do and that's all there is to say.

Again, this is off topic and I still don't understand why this has gotten so big.
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 16:20
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Europe
Posts: 57
Originally Posted by Pawly View Post
I'm not talking about private flight schools, I'm talking about airline assessments.

Besides, why does it matter? I have planned my finances very well ....
Mate as said earlier, spend your money as you see fit, nobody tells you what you can or can't do.
However well you may plan your finances, make sure you actually HAVE the money and you don't have to pull out a loan.
The €1000 monthly payment and while only earning 1500 driving a delivery truck 40 hours a week has made many lives miserable. Even if you have a respectable income you'd still be paying of your whole life ahead and feel the pain every month. Even more so if you never end up in the RHS, as many never did after the last financial crash.

But as to "why it is so big" has multiple reasons.
  1. The aforementioned story
  2. Anyone mentioning big flying schools in the current climate automatically sets off the alarm bells, due to a repeat of history.
  3. "Airline assesments" come on - next to none of the airlines is assessing flightcrew for hiring at the moment and foreseeable future, let alone a newbie looking for a cadetship. They are rather assessing who to let go. You probably either mean a tagged scheme or mentored scheme. Neither of which will currently giving you any edge of a whitetail cadet, if anything if it is an MPL cadetship it will set your job oppurtunities further back.
  4. Even if you're sitting on a pile of cash, going to a integrated atplfactory is maybe the least intelligent way to get to your goals.
With the above points in mind, you might guess as to why people don't take you seriously if you start enquiring about a selection procedure at one of the well known integrated atpl factories.

Your self gloryfying stories of "I have planned my finances very well, I know my abilities, plan my journey etc" and consequently coming up EFA (90k integrated) and airline assesments (???) makes me doubt your abilities son. Sounds like you've got the idea that you're going to be the exception to the rule

Last edited by African_TrouserSnake; 22nd Jun 2020 at 17:54.
African_TrouserSnake is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2020, 17:39
  #12 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 1,347
What I don’t understand is why you are undertaking airline assessments (and probably having to pay to undertake them), when there is ZERO chance that any airline will select anyone for any ab-initio courses given the tsunami which has hit aviation.

What is the point of doing multiple assessments?

Is this some form of ego trip?

If you are serious, stop all the ramblings and start your PPL training when C-19 restrictions permit.
parkfell is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2020, 17:51
  #13 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Europe
Posts: 57
I find the whole story quite odd. The guy reckons to exempt himself from the common pitfalls by means of his superior financial skillset and perception of flight training. However, his writings thusfar have only proven the opposite.

Free advice: get a PPL first, or at least 10 hours or so of instruction before you commit yourself and your funds to a dead end road (atleast for the forseeable future).
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Old 5th Jul 2020, 19:55
  #14 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: SW1A 2AA
Posts: 100
I donít see how any commercial flight school will survive this. I certainly wouldnít give any one of them a single penny up front.
Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2020, 06:23
  #15 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Where ever the wind takes me
Posts: 63
Originally Posted by Pawly View Post
Besides, why does it matter? I have planned my finances very well and know exactly what I'm getting into. Y
Pawly, can I please give you some advice?

Two years ago I applied for 'generation easyJet' and the Virgin Atlantic cadet program (A330 MPL), I did both assessments, and passed. On the 'generation easyJet' route (A320 MPL), I got as far as being offered a start date. I was subsequently told that I scored an amber on the psychometric testing that said I had a tendency for risk, and the offer was withdrawn. I also had my finances in order, (I would have been 38 yrs old when I started training. And had the funds to pay for everything, but it meant I would not have any cash reserves). I missed out on the Virgin Atlantic cadet scheme in the 3rd stage. Missing out on both these tagged schemes was painful, by then I had my PPL+night rating, with a couple hundred hours.

All the while this was going on, I had a friend who is a senior FO at one of the ME3 telling me it was a bad idea, and to really think about my choices in going into the airlines as a third carrier. I also had a TRE/TRI at the same airline raising eyebrows at my decision. But I knew better, I couldn't see the woods for the trees. What I'm getting at, and what I should have/and did learn, is when people in the very industry you wish to join give you FREE advice. Listen to it, even if it goes against your plan.

If I had carried on and finished flight training, I would now be on out of a job. I was very lucky and managed to dodge a very big bullet. As I sit here now, very relieved. I think about the people that passed and went on to complete their training. And how they're going to survive their very large training loans. This is going to, and has ruined peoples lives. Please think very carefully about parting with upwards of 80k in the current climate.

Get your PPL, enjoy flying for fun. Explore Europe when it reopens. The airlines are going to be there in a few years time, there's no rush (trust me on that).

What ever you decide to do, good luck. Just think through the BS of the recruitment brochures at the flight schools.
andy148 is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2020, 22:49
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: london
Posts: 37
Iím sure on on of your airline selection interviews will be about situational awareness. So when they ask, Ďhow did you show situational awareness when there was a global pandemic, airlines going bust and pilots being made redundant all over the planet and you decided it was a good idea to start a very expensive pilot courseí. I donít know that saying that you had enough money to do it will be an answer that gets you top marks!
but as zero airlines are hiring cadets now, but youíve managed to find TWO maybe itís an imaginary airline and that would be a perfect imaginary answer!
but then, what do I know?
harveyst is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2020, 04:48
  #17 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Uk
Posts: 0
If you can afford it easily, why not ? If not forget it .

All the advice in the world won’t stop people following their “ dream “. It wouldn’t have stopped me, but then again it was sub £20k all those years ago.

And all those lofty comments about checking your situational awareness for the job - I’m sorry , airlines that expect you to PTF already care not for that argument .

And don’t feel bad if you fail selection stuff, I’m convinced I would as it seems to be often a case of HR departments justifying a reason for their existence .

Meester proach is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2020, 09:50
  #18 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Originally Posted by Meester proach View Post
.... Iím convinced I would as it seems to be often a case of HR departments justifying a reason for their existence .
When eventually in years to come, recruitment starts up again, let us hope the process is driven by pilots and not HR, aka human remains.
HR have made some disastrous choices which only end in tears, and prove expensive for the airlines.
Let them be part of the process, but not have the casting vote on the final hiring decision.
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