Wizzair
Join Date: May 2007
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Yes, exactly the bottom line:
Get in, get your experience/command, get out.
If you choose to stay don't complain about being screwed at some point in the future.
Don't say we did not tell you.
Get in, get your experience/command, get out.
If you choose to stay don't complain about being screwed at some point in the future.
Don't say we did not tell you.
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Syntax
6/4 and 6/1/6/7 is 146 days off (excluding leave)
Ezy 5/4/5/3 = 150 days off
FR 6/3/6/3 = 121 days off (not sure this is still the FR pattern)
I agree it's sh*te but is it that sh*te or are am I missing something
either you on 6/4 or 6/1/6/7
Ezy 5/4/5/3 = 150 days off
FR 6/3/6/3 = 121 days off (not sure this is still the FR pattern)
I agree it's sh*te but is it that sh*te or are am I missing something
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Mr Angry the problem is that they will without fail finish you on a late before days off (almost always finishing close to midnight) and then start you early (04:50 local time check in on day 1 was typical) which obviously means you're either sleeping until late on day one of days off or having to miss a night's sleep to make your commuting flight in the morning. Last day of days off is also ruined as you will have to be in bed at 20:00. So, regardless of commuting or not, your days off are constantly infringed, not literally of course (although this does happen and you'll be compensated to the tune of a whopping €30 for your trouble) but to all practical purposes.
Please also bear in mind that these rosters are not fixed, they will mess with them as they please, very often in a purely vindictive way (as I spoke of earlier in the thread) to stop you having any days off before or after leave. Wraparound days do not exist in Wizz Air and they will change your roster pattern to make sure you have the same number of days off in a leave month as you do in any normal month without leave. All that happens is you have more consecutive days off. Resulting in 90 hour months even when you have leave. Unbelievable. Except it happens regularly in Wizz, to me and many of my colleagues.
They will NOT do you any favours, even in return for something you help them with. If that floats your boat then you're more than welcome but - as others have said - it's a place to get in and out of as soon as you possibly can once you have what you need.
Please also bear in mind that these rosters are not fixed, they will mess with them as they please, very often in a purely vindictive way (as I spoke of earlier in the thread) to stop you having any days off before or after leave. Wraparound days do not exist in Wizz Air and they will change your roster pattern to make sure you have the same number of days off in a leave month as you do in any normal month without leave. All that happens is you have more consecutive days off. Resulting in 90 hour months even when you have leave. Unbelievable. Except it happens regularly in Wizz, to me and many of my colleagues.
They will NOT do you any favours, even in return for something you help them with. If that floats your boat then you're more than welcome but - as others have said - it's a place to get in and out of as soon as you possibly can once you have what you need.
Last edited by RexBanner; 8th Dec 2015 at 21:13.
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I cant believe how bad things have become since I left. I was in Bucharesti and our 6 on 4 off could 95 % of the time be turned into 6 off 4 on, as normally I had stbys either end of my 4 off which I was normally allowed to commute back to Blighty. If I recall only once did I get to lose a day. That was 9 years ago though, so I guess a lot has changed, we only had 10 aircraft then.
Join Date: May 2007
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So back to the facts about Wizz Air;
Pros:
Friendly enviroment among the flying crew
Eastern Europe(low expenses, interesting cities)
Modern fleet/proper maintenance
Good for hour building
Good for experience building(short rwys and challenging)
Cons:
Poor management, under top management
Scheduling team terrible
Fatigue is still playing a part in Wizz, though it has minimized during the last years
Early morning checkins, and late checkouts
Not the highest salary among the low cost companies
Wizz Air is a safe airline, but you are being used to the max each year. That is why the best thing is to join as a FO WITH a TR, else you will get almost no salary each month. The captains are earning ok tbh, and with another payrise in horizon it will only improve.
Junior FO without TR: approx 2200 euros per month
Junior FO with TR: approx 2500 euros per month
Senior FO: approx 3000 euros per month
Junior CPT: 4000-4500 euros per month
CPT: from 5000-7000 euros per month
All after taxes, which you have to sort out yourself, unless local contract and so on...
Wizz Air is not an airline for long term, but short-medium term, until you leave for Easy or one of the ME3, however 10 years in the company is doable.
Pros:
Friendly enviroment among the flying crew
Eastern Europe(low expenses, interesting cities)
Modern fleet/proper maintenance
Good for hour building
Good for experience building(short rwys and challenging)
Cons:
Poor management, under top management
Scheduling team terrible
Fatigue is still playing a part in Wizz, though it has minimized during the last years
Early morning checkins, and late checkouts
Not the highest salary among the low cost companies
Wizz Air is a safe airline, but you are being used to the max each year. That is why the best thing is to join as a FO WITH a TR, else you will get almost no salary each month. The captains are earning ok tbh, and with another payrise in horizon it will only improve.
Junior FO without TR: approx 2200 euros per month
Junior FO with TR: approx 2500 euros per month
Senior FO: approx 3000 euros per month
Junior CPT: 4000-4500 euros per month
CPT: from 5000-7000 euros per month
All after taxes, which you have to sort out yourself, unless local contract and so on...
Wizz Air is not an airline for long term, but short-medium term, until you leave for Easy or one of the ME3, however 10 years in the company is doable.
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Don't forget that the CPT salary you quote is based on the 900 hours per year.
Should you get sick or unpaid leave your salary is cut dramatically.
Also, ask yourself, can you fly 900 hours a year for 10 years in a row?
(But of course you need to know what it is to fly 900 hours a year all in 4 sectors days to be able to answer that question)
Should you get sick or unpaid leave your salary is cut dramatically.
Also, ask yourself, can you fly 900 hours a year for 10 years in a row?
(But of course you need to know what it is to fly 900 hours a year all in 4 sectors days to be able to answer that question)
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Well, you do not fly 900 each year, some years yes, but other years its more or less around 800-850, still a lot though. Yes it can be tiring, but doable.
Again as I said, you cannot stay here for long term, except if you are local. 10 years is in fact possible as I have seen many people already passed the 10 year border. If you are living in your home country etc. then you appreciate that more then the hours you fly.
Unpaid leave has not been implemented since the last round in, I believe 2010-11? So that is bs...
Problems with sickness is one thing which should be in Cons, especially if you are on Confair, but now that is changed so that you have 5 days paid per year. And in all fairness, how many sickdays do you guys have per year? max 2 is the average...which means that the salary cut is not that noticeable, and most of the bases are on local contracts, except Romania, so sick leave is paid.
The duty managers are not the best yes, but this is already mentioned in the cons and in all fairness, some of the stories which are being mentioned in the threads above, they say more about the CPT than the duty managers.
CPT pay is not BS, since those figures are NET and equals to 8000 - 11.000 euroes GROSS, and with living costs in eastern europe, its not 2 bad afterall. Pension has never been paid in Wizz so...you need to save that yourself.
Again as I said, you cannot stay here for long term, except if you are local. 10 years is in fact possible as I have seen many people already passed the 10 year border. If you are living in your home country etc. then you appreciate that more then the hours you fly.
Unpaid leave has not been implemented since the last round in, I believe 2010-11? So that is bs...
Problems with sickness is one thing which should be in Cons, especially if you are on Confair, but now that is changed so that you have 5 days paid per year. And in all fairness, how many sickdays do you guys have per year? max 2 is the average...which means that the salary cut is not that noticeable, and most of the bases are on local contracts, except Romania, so sick leave is paid.
The duty managers are not the best yes, but this is already mentioned in the cons and in all fairness, some of the stories which are being mentioned in the threads above, they say more about the CPT than the duty managers.
CPT pay is not BS, since those figures are NET and equals to 8000 - 11.000 euroes GROSS, and with living costs in eastern europe, its not 2 bad afterall. Pension has never been paid in Wizz so...you need to save that yourself.
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I really don't understand you guys...anyways, my 2 cents if someone is interested at all:
This is the 4th aviation company i'm with as a pilot. In the first i had the best flying in my life, unfortunately bad management caused the company to go under, then in the next i had the best money so far (might getter better a few years down the line here...), but with a ****ty ops attitude and rostering. Then came the third where i had the best roster, being based at home, but with the most awful management and ops you guys can imagine. No, really...there is no words to describe...
Then i joined the pink outfit and i must say i got everything so far what i was expecting with not giving anything in return from my side what felt as a sacrifice. Quick upgrade - ticked, being based where actually i like to be until i get back to my homebase - another tick, and for last, but not least all holidays approved, roster is unchanged with an okay salary which is at least growing constantly.
For the bitchers an moaners: get a life, noone is holding or held a gun to your heads to work or to have worked here. We all know that there is no perfect company, some are better in one aspect while others are better in another. Want good money? Go to China. Would like to have the perfect roster? Spray crops. Want fun flying? Go, fly a Caravan in the Okawango Delta... We all gotta make trade-offs. If you can't, this profession is not for you, at least not in the 21st century...
Cheers
This is the 4th aviation company i'm with as a pilot. In the first i had the best flying in my life, unfortunately bad management caused the company to go under, then in the next i had the best money so far (might getter better a few years down the line here...), but with a ****ty ops attitude and rostering. Then came the third where i had the best roster, being based at home, but with the most awful management and ops you guys can imagine. No, really...there is no words to describe...
Then i joined the pink outfit and i must say i got everything so far what i was expecting with not giving anything in return from my side what felt as a sacrifice. Quick upgrade - ticked, being based where actually i like to be until i get back to my homebase - another tick, and for last, but not least all holidays approved, roster is unchanged with an okay salary which is at least growing constantly.
For the bitchers an moaners: get a life, noone is holding or held a gun to your heads to work or to have worked here. We all know that there is no perfect company, some are better in one aspect while others are better in another. Want good money? Go to China. Would like to have the perfect roster? Spray crops. Want fun flying? Go, fly a Caravan in the Okawango Delta... We all gotta make trade-offs. If you can't, this profession is not for you, at least not in the 21st century...
Cheers
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Booze, my comments in particular are not intended to be whiney, moany, bitchy or whatever you choose to call them. I post to provide information about what I found it to really be like at the company. Because it's a bit late to realise that you've made a mistake - and you should have researched further - when you're getting up at 03:30 AM, it's pitch black, snowing and minus 25 outside and you soon have to go report for a four sector 12:30 hour pre planned extension day with a grizzled CRM free zone of a Captain who shouts at you for telling him the state of the airframe after your walk-around.
People need to go into this with their eyes open. That means stories from those who've been there. If Wizz has worked for you, great and I'm genuinely pleased but we're allowed our stories too. If you don't like the fact that the majority of people have had a different experience to you, then that's also fine, but it doesn't stop their opinions being valid or give you the right to call them bitchers and moaners because, believe it or not, all we're trying to do is be helpful and give people the bigger picture. I could give a damn if people choose to join Wizz or not, but what I do care about is that people make that decision with some semblance of an informed decision of what it is really going to be like.
Whether you like it or not, the fact is that the vast majority of people at Wizz really don't seem to enjoy the overall package and are looking to get out ASAP. Just look at the staff turnover figures if you want evidence of this. I regularly used to go out for lunch socially with my colleagues at Wizz and the conversation (every single time) was always about which other airlines were recruiting, which we had applied to and where we were in the process of getting out. That was amongst a dozen guys who had been there less than twelve months. I don't know about to you, but that to me is not indicative of a "happy ship".
At a base with three aircraft I went from being the most junior F/O in the base to the third most senior in the space of just SIX MONTHS.
It's an airline to use for maintaining flying currency after a redundancy, getting an upgrade, getting hours on an A320 or whatever but regardless of what you need, get in get the job done and get out. Thanks for your concern, but I don't need to get a life as I moved to a far better airline than Wizz Air and am now about to move to an even better one (for my circumstances) than that, one that was my career goal from day one.
So Wizz served its purpose well but by no means is it a career airline for the vast majority, there may be exceptions. Of course all this should be qualified with the fact that although I hated every minute of my time at Wizz, going there did in retrospect (and quite perversely) turn out to be the best decision I could have ever made when being forced out of my previous airline. Please bear in mind though you may not be so lucky and you may get stuck!
People need to go into this with their eyes open. That means stories from those who've been there. If Wizz has worked for you, great and I'm genuinely pleased but we're allowed our stories too. If you don't like the fact that the majority of people have had a different experience to you, then that's also fine, but it doesn't stop their opinions being valid or give you the right to call them bitchers and moaners because, believe it or not, all we're trying to do is be helpful and give people the bigger picture. I could give a damn if people choose to join Wizz or not, but what I do care about is that people make that decision with some semblance of an informed decision of what it is really going to be like.
Whether you like it or not, the fact is that the vast majority of people at Wizz really don't seem to enjoy the overall package and are looking to get out ASAP. Just look at the staff turnover figures if you want evidence of this. I regularly used to go out for lunch socially with my colleagues at Wizz and the conversation (every single time) was always about which other airlines were recruiting, which we had applied to and where we were in the process of getting out. That was amongst a dozen guys who had been there less than twelve months. I don't know about to you, but that to me is not indicative of a "happy ship".
At a base with three aircraft I went from being the most junior F/O in the base to the third most senior in the space of just SIX MONTHS.
It's an airline to use for maintaining flying currency after a redundancy, getting an upgrade, getting hours on an A320 or whatever but regardless of what you need, get in get the job done and get out. Thanks for your concern, but I don't need to get a life as I moved to a far better airline than Wizz Air and am now about to move to an even better one (for my circumstances) than that, one that was my career goal from day one.
So Wizz served its purpose well but by no means is it a career airline for the vast majority, there may be exceptions. Of course all this should be qualified with the fact that although I hated every minute of my time at Wizz, going there did in retrospect (and quite perversely) turn out to be the best decision I could have ever made when being forced out of my previous airline. Please bear in mind though you may not be so lucky and you may get stuck!
Last edited by RexBanner; 12th Dec 2015 at 22:13.
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No Choice
Well,
I see the point of both sides - happy and unhappy people...
But what IF Wizz is the only option in the country where you live?
If there is no choice, but to leave and become an expat?!
You have to look at it through the guys on local contract - some of them Captains barely get more money than the Confair contractor F/Os...
And Wizz, to use the words of Josef Varadi, "provides fair salaries, not equal ones throughout its network of bases"...
I see the point of both sides - happy and unhappy people...
But what IF Wizz is the only option in the country where you live?
If there is no choice, but to leave and become an expat?!
You have to look at it through the guys on local contract - some of them Captains barely get more money than the Confair contractor F/Os...
And Wizz, to use the words of Josef Varadi, "provides fair salaries, not equal ones throughout its network of bases"...
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While I can't say that I hated every minute in Wizz, I actually enjoyed quite a lot, after many years of balancing between how much abuse I can put up with for the sake of flying out of home and enjoying the easy routes and plenty of free time, I just realized things are not going to change.
The top management run the slavery because they know there is no better options for pilots in Hungary and Poland who have their houses built close to the airport and do not wish to leave their families. The top management know they got them by the balls.
Not so lucky in Romania, cause Romanian pilots dont really like living in Romania leave the company as soon as they get a better chance.
The sad fact that the middle management (chief pilot and fleet captains and training department) are extremely inexperienced and as the consequence entirely incompetent doing just everything exactly like the boss says, and scared ****less to loose their rather well paid jobs.
And really, its just ridiculous how incompetent those guys are, having no clue or experience whatsoever how to manage other people.
Result? Your lifestyle, salary, roster, base assignment etc are at mercy of complete idiots.
Consequence? It all goes well until something goes wrong.
Booze, I was singing the same tune as you do now, unfortunately only some years later I understood what those moaners and bitchers really meant, and I wished I listened.
Until one day I was called to the office to sign a new contract with inferior conditions or to be removed from flying until I do.
Reasoning? Because all the other pilots signed already!
Also, only after leaving the company and joining the real airline (Wizz was my first company, like it is for many others) I understood what a mickey-mouse establishment Wizz Air is and all those ridiculous things that I had to put up with had nothing to do with a professional airline.
Get in, get your upgrade and hours, get an eastern european girlfriend or two and get out!
And yes, though joining Wizz at that time was the best option for me and I have enjoyed my time there, I dont see any reason why I should not tell my honest opinion and experience with this company.
I can only second once again the statements of Syntax, and the other lad. EVERY non-management pilot in the company is looking for another job. And its been like this for at least 8 years.
The top management run the slavery because they know there is no better options for pilots in Hungary and Poland who have their houses built close to the airport and do not wish to leave their families. The top management know they got them by the balls.
Not so lucky in Romania, cause Romanian pilots dont really like living in Romania leave the company as soon as they get a better chance.
The sad fact that the middle management (chief pilot and fleet captains and training department) are extremely inexperienced and as the consequence entirely incompetent doing just everything exactly like the boss says, and scared ****less to loose their rather well paid jobs.
And really, its just ridiculous how incompetent those guys are, having no clue or experience whatsoever how to manage other people.
Result? Your lifestyle, salary, roster, base assignment etc are at mercy of complete idiots.
Consequence? It all goes well until something goes wrong.
Booze, I was singing the same tune as you do now, unfortunately only some years later I understood what those moaners and bitchers really meant, and I wished I listened.
Until one day I was called to the office to sign a new contract with inferior conditions or to be removed from flying until I do.
Reasoning? Because all the other pilots signed already!
Also, only after leaving the company and joining the real airline (Wizz was my first company, like it is for many others) I understood what a mickey-mouse establishment Wizz Air is and all those ridiculous things that I had to put up with had nothing to do with a professional airline.
Get in, get your upgrade and hours, get an eastern european girlfriend or two and get out!
And yes, though joining Wizz at that time was the best option for me and I have enjoyed my time there, I dont see any reason why I should not tell my honest opinion and experience with this company.
I can only second once again the statements of Syntax, and the other lad. EVERY non-management pilot in the company is looking for another job. And its been like this for at least 8 years.
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dboy, everything is possible...
how comfortable it is, depends on your base and where you are commuting from.
lets say if you live in london and based in gdanks, katowice or warsaw with three luton flights a day, its real easy..
no so, if you are based in some small base and live in some province in france, nearly impossible
how comfortable it is, depends on your base and where you are commuting from.
lets say if you live in london and based in gdanks, katowice or warsaw with three luton flights a day, its real easy..
no so, if you are based in some small base and live in some province in france, nearly impossible
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6 on 1 off 6 on 7 off works for some, even in not so big cities.
Can be tough though to be on duty that long, even if some stby are usually thrown in in the on days.
PS: increased sector pay by 28% for SFOs, starting from the coming spring.
Can be tough though to be on duty that long, even if some stby are usually thrown in in the on days.
PS: increased sector pay by 28% for SFOs, starting from the coming spring.
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So much for pointing out a fact, a payrise, as small as it can be, and an answer about a legit question.
No need for another lesson about how much the company sucks for you.
Ps: many times I got standby or avlb on last and/or first day of duty. Might you have pissed off the wrong people in the company, dude?
How surprising giving your positive attitude.
Get a life, seriously, you have been saying the same things since forever. We got your point, now move on.
No need for another lesson about how much the company sucks for you.
Ps: many times I got standby or avlb on last and/or first day of duty. Might you have pissed off the wrong people in the company, dude?
How surprising giving your positive attitude.
Get a life, seriously, you have been saying the same things since forever. We got your point, now move on.
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Regarding the pay-rise...
The old self-employed contracts had 8% on top of everything extra to cover for the health and social security.
Basically, you were self-employed with Confair and had to arrange your own social security, taxes and health insurance, and for that you had 8% paid over your whole salary. Guys who are in the company long enough still have those 8%
Then Wizz Air decided to cancel the 8% basically breaching the contracts, and offered 30% increase of the sector pay, saying its a pay rise. Many pilots (new upgrades, sfo's and f/o) were just offered new contracts to sign or leave the company and guess what? 90% just signed
Nice mix of bluff and scare-tactics that worked.
Some lucky captains and management pilots basically those people company could not afford to loose still got their 8%
Now, simple calculation (the amounts don't matter):
Basic salary: 40k
Sector pay: 60 x 400 sectors = 24k
Total with 8% on top: 69.12k
New situation after 30% sector pay "increase":
Basic salary: 40k
Sector pay: 31.2k
Total: 71.2 == pay rise of 1.16%
Now if you don't fly 400 sectors a year, but lets say 200 for one reason or another (sick maybe?):
Situation 1: 40 + 60 * 200 + 8% = 56.16k
Situation 2: 40 + 78 * 200 = 55.6k
That's not a pay rise AT ALL! That's reducing fixed costs for Wizz Air
Wizz management must be laughing their asses off thinking how stupid their pilots are.
And you know what? They are right!
The old self-employed contracts had 8% on top of everything extra to cover for the health and social security.
Basically, you were self-employed with Confair and had to arrange your own social security, taxes and health insurance, and for that you had 8% paid over your whole salary. Guys who are in the company long enough still have those 8%
Then Wizz Air decided to cancel the 8% basically breaching the contracts, and offered 30% increase of the sector pay, saying its a pay rise. Many pilots (new upgrades, sfo's and f/o) were just offered new contracts to sign or leave the company and guess what? 90% just signed
Nice mix of bluff and scare-tactics that worked.
Some lucky captains and management pilots basically those people company could not afford to loose still got their 8%
Now, simple calculation (the amounts don't matter):
Basic salary: 40k
Sector pay: 60 x 400 sectors = 24k
Total with 8% on top: 69.12k
New situation after 30% sector pay "increase":
Basic salary: 40k
Sector pay: 31.2k
Total: 71.2 == pay rise of 1.16%
Now if you don't fly 400 sectors a year, but lets say 200 for one reason or another (sick maybe?):
Situation 1: 40 + 60 * 200 + 8% = 56.16k
Situation 2: 40 + 78 * 200 = 55.6k
That's not a pay rise AT ALL! That's reducing fixed costs for Wizz Air
Wizz management must be laughing their asses off thinking how stupid their pilots are.
And you know what? They are right!
Last edited by Skipping Classes; 19th Dec 2015 at 23:36. Reason: corrected minor calculation mistake
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Syntax, one point I must correct you on, I know quite a few cases where Wizz was very helpful finding a solution for people who lost their medicals.
But just a sick leave, yes, you are on your own.
They told us back in the day that's what we pay you the 8% extra for
Then they took the 8% away, because "pilots were not making use of the social security anyway" :-O really?
But just a sick leave, yes, you are on your own.
They told us back in the day that's what we pay you the 8% extra for
Then they took the 8% away, because "pilots were not making use of the social security anyway" :-O really?
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Oh well, pilots get to choose. They want to run the risk not to pay social security and "save" the money"? They can. And most of them do. Until they catch them at least.
Local contracts are now also available in every country in which pilots are based, and you have at that moment the rights of every worker, in accordance to the local legislation.
Your choice.
No **** that the rules in Hungary or Latvia are less favourable to the employee than let's say France or Germany, in terms of social security.
Let's not fool ourselves, most of the pilots go the Confair route because of the extra money, money that they save not paying social security. Then they get sick, and they complain because they get no sick pay, which, surprise surprise, after the first few days, is generally covered by the social security system that they didn't pay for. Funny people eh?
Local contracts are now also available in every country in which pilots are based, and you have at that moment the rights of every worker, in accordance to the local legislation.
Your choice.
No **** that the rules in Hungary or Latvia are less favourable to the employee than let's say France or Germany, in terms of social security.
Let's not fool ourselves, most of the pilots go the Confair route because of the extra money, money that they save not paying social security. Then they get sick, and they complain because they get no sick pay, which, surprise surprise, after the first few days, is generally covered by the social security system that they didn't pay for. Funny people eh?
