Flying for a Blacklisted airline.
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Flying for a Blacklisted airline.
This is not about pay to fly scheme's or anything like that. Not about the deal offered, because that does sound like a good deal.
It is about flying for a blacklisted Airline is Asia. How do European airlines look at pilots with one of these airlines on their CV's? Or do they just look at the hours?
So Should you take the deal build hours on say a 737, hope you survive, then try and get a job back in Europe?
Are there any other problems when trying to go back with your license or so? Anyone have any experience in doing this?
It is about flying for a blacklisted Airline is Asia. How do European airlines look at pilots with one of these airlines on their CV's? Or do they just look at the hours?
So Should you take the deal build hours on say a 737, hope you survive, then try and get a job back in Europe?
Are there any other problems when trying to go back with your license or so? Anyone have any experience in doing this?
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LOL ... when a guy starts his post with a dirty great denial that this is about P2F and the "good deal" on offer, it's fair to assume that they're blacklisted "AND" you're going to pay to fly with them??!!
Are things so bad that you can't even get someone in Europe to take your P2F money now, and wannabes have to go play russian roulette with shifty blacklisted 3rd world airlines?
Seriously ... I won't berate you on the moral hazards of P2F because I've done it all before and plenty of others will jump on here and do it better than I could anyway. However, you're going to ignore us all and do it anyway as your first sentence makes clear.
At least if you're going to go down that road make sure that you are buying quality as well as quantity, specially if you're a low timer. If you've done your dirty 500 hours and by the end of it you really know your sh!t with the aircraft SOPs and non-normals and so on, then one would hope you'd have a good chance of passing a sim check with a proper airline. However these sh!tty 3rd world P2F outfits have a very bad habit of doing virtual-single-crew B737 ops with some grouchy old local captain who ignores you altogether or does the bare minimum to get the plane from A to B, and at the end of the flight you haven't learned jack.
Can we hazard a guess that it's Indonesia ... and specifically when you say B737 that it's Lion Air?
Are things so bad that you can't even get someone in Europe to take your P2F money now, and wannabes have to go play russian roulette with shifty blacklisted 3rd world airlines?
Seriously ... I won't berate you on the moral hazards of P2F because I've done it all before and plenty of others will jump on here and do it better than I could anyway. However, you're going to ignore us all and do it anyway as your first sentence makes clear.
At least if you're going to go down that road make sure that you are buying quality as well as quantity, specially if you're a low timer. If you've done your dirty 500 hours and by the end of it you really know your sh!t with the aircraft SOPs and non-normals and so on, then one would hope you'd have a good chance of passing a sim check with a proper airline. However these sh!tty 3rd world P2F outfits have a very bad habit of doing virtual-single-crew B737 ops with some grouchy old local captain who ignores you altogether or does the bare minimum to get the plane from A to B, and at the end of the flight you haven't learned jack.
Can we hazard a guess that it's Indonesia ... and specifically when you say B737 that it's Lion Air?
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There is one born every minute.
Have you seen some of the airlines that are NOT blacklisted?
Would you fly on this airline as a passenger?
You're going to be one of the highest paying passengers........
Have you seen some of the airlines that are NOT blacklisted?
Would you fly on this airline as a passenger?
You're going to be one of the highest paying passengers........
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Quote: "Can we hazard a guess that it's Indonesia ... and specifically when you say B737 that it's Lion Air?"
Typical mentality from pilots who cannot get a flying job in their own country but have to work for middle east east airlines and chase their oil money, which isn't that much more, than what an airline would pay in their own country.
This type of mentality isn't just directed at the Indonesians, but to any aviation country where a person thinks they're the best in the world.
Would rather be in Indonesia any day, than out in the 40 degree desert.
I know a guy who is now flying a wide body jet after previously spending time in Indonesia.
You guys are just stating an opinion and when i see where you guys are living just to make a living, then i just got to laugh!!!!
Typical mentality from pilots who cannot get a flying job in their own country but have to work for middle east east airlines and chase their oil money, which isn't that much more, than what an airline would pay in their own country.
This type of mentality isn't just directed at the Indonesians, but to any aviation country where a person thinks they're the best in the world.
Would rather be in Indonesia any day, than out in the 40 degree desert.
I know a guy who is now flying a wide body jet after previously spending time in Indonesia.
You guys are just stating an opinion and when i see where you guys are living just to make a living, then i just got to laugh!!!!
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Ahhhhh good old Southernskies ... I was wondering how many nanoseconds it would be before you reared your head and said something ignorant and stupid once the "Indo" word was mentioned. I just looked at your post history and it clearly ain't worth arguing with someone whose sole purpose here on pprune is to try and defend Lion Air and Indonesia in general. People can read the threads you've been involved in and the very sensible responses already given to you by the likes of PT6A and make their own minds up about you and the relevance of your opinion.
Whether the sandpit or the south east asian jungle is a better form of expat life is a personal choice, large sacrifices are made in both cases so I'm glad you're so happy with your Indonesian life. At the end of the day, one of us is paying to sit in the RHS of a crappy, blacklisted, third world pay-to-fly merchant, flying domestic routes round one of the poorest and most corrupt countries on earth, with an operator whose repeated violations of basic international air safety regs have seen them banned from 90% of the world's airspace. The other one of us, is getting paid loads of tax free money to fly brand spankin new widebodies around every mega international airport in Europe, Asia, Oz and USA. So I'm glad that you feel like laughing at my expense mate because I'm sure as hell doing the same at yours.
Good luck with finding a real job one day.
Whether the sandpit or the south east asian jungle is a better form of expat life is a personal choice, large sacrifices are made in both cases so I'm glad you're so happy with your Indonesian life. At the end of the day, one of us is paying to sit in the RHS of a crappy, blacklisted, third world pay-to-fly merchant, flying domestic routes round one of the poorest and most corrupt countries on earth, with an operator whose repeated violations of basic international air safety regs have seen them banned from 90% of the world's airspace. The other one of us, is getting paid loads of tax free money to fly brand spankin new widebodies around every mega international airport in Europe, Asia, Oz and USA. So I'm glad that you feel like laughing at my expense mate because I'm sure as hell doing the same at yours.
Good luck with finding a real job one day.
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Going back to the subject at hand, i think this is a fairly expansive and rather ridiculous question to ask
Which one, there are thousands?!?! Every HR dept will look at you differently. If you're looking for a justification for throwing your money at a p2f scheme i dont think you'll find it here.
Nevertheless, as someone said above, you'll be in the the highest fare paying passenger on the plane, a fact that i suspect wont go unoticed by an HR bean counter...
How do European airlines look at pilots with one of these airlines on their CV's?
Nevertheless, as someone said above, you'll be in the the highest fare paying passenger on the plane, a fact that i suspect wont go unoticed by an HR bean counter...
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Dear Adgington and also the rest.
Yes it is Lionair but not P2F. Why is every body so scared and thinking LionAir is the most horrible way to make flying hours. If I had the good genes (Not two X-es but an X an Y), I would immidiatly apply for this and fly for two years Boeing737NG instead of 10 hours a month C172. What would the airlines prefer: me maybe 500 single engine or the guys from Lion with a small 2000 hours Boeing737NG although it is a blacklisted airline. If I was the head of HR, I would know...
From my flying school a lot of people went to Lionair via the CAE deal. What I heard, the deal you got offerd is almost the same. The only thing I can tell from the stories of our privet school forum and the guys who are there and I have still contact with. They all love it!! They get payed, they are flying and living for two years in Indonesia what is an adventure and thing you learn a lot from.
If you have more questions, pm me.
Yes it is Lionair but not P2F. Why is every body so scared and thinking LionAir is the most horrible way to make flying hours. If I had the good genes (Not two X-es but an X an Y), I would immidiatly apply for this and fly for two years Boeing737NG instead of 10 hours a month C172. What would the airlines prefer: me maybe 500 single engine or the guys from Lion with a small 2000 hours Boeing737NG although it is a blacklisted airline. If I was the head of HR, I would know...
From my flying school a lot of people went to Lionair via the CAE deal. What I heard, the deal you got offerd is almost the same. The only thing I can tell from the stories of our privet school forum and the guys who are there and I have still contact with. They all love it!! They get payed, they are flying and living for two years in Indonesia what is an adventure and thing you learn a lot from.
If you have more questions, pm me.
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Like I said it's not a pay to fly scheme but a get paid to fly deal.
The airline is not important, neither is the type to be flown. It is a twin jet more isn't relevant.
What I am interested in is how do other airlines look at pilots who fly for these airlines. Will it increase my chances of getting a job back in Europe after a couple of years out there.
Am also a bit concerned about the person in the LHS as Luke SkyToddler says. Isn't Asia very much the captain says what is to be done and you are just to shut up and do as you are told? Probably varies per Airline.
The airline is not important, neither is the type to be flown. It is a twin jet more isn't relevant.
What I am interested in is how do other airlines look at pilots who fly for these airlines. Will it increase my chances of getting a job back in Europe after a couple of years out there.
Am also a bit concerned about the person in the LHS as Luke SkyToddler says. Isn't Asia very much the captain says what is to be done and you are just to shut up and do as you are told? Probably varies per Airline.
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Eddington,
How would you handle your application if you were recieving it from someone wishing to join a Western/First World company after a few hundred ours with some types of Asian carriers?
All actual jet experience and all operational integrity, SOP and CRM learning carried out at the hands of a internationally safety blacklisted carrier overseen by an aviation authority declared unable to carry out the most basic of its functions competently or without corruption? Between them the safety oversight authorities of Europe and America have assessed, judged, published and acted on those conclusions and now we have Australia taking a far more active stance due to the same concerns with some Asian carriers
So, overall a massive green tick on the old CV I suppose?
Just wondering?
How would you handle your application if you were recieving it from someone wishing to join a Western/First World company after a few hundred ours with some types of Asian carriers?
All actual jet experience and all operational integrity, SOP and CRM learning carried out at the hands of a internationally safety blacklisted carrier overseen by an aviation authority declared unable to carry out the most basic of its functions competently or without corruption? Between them the safety oversight authorities of Europe and America have assessed, judged, published and acted on those conclusions and now we have Australia taking a far more active stance due to the same concerns with some Asian carriers
So, overall a massive green tick on the old CV I suppose?
Just wondering?
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Like I said it's not a pay to fly scheme but a get paid to fly deal.
The airline is not important, neither is the type to be flown. It is a twin jet more isn't relevant.
What I am interested in is how do other airlines look at pilots who fly for these airlines. Will it increase my chances of getting a job back in Europe after a couple of years out there.
Am also a bit concerned about the person in the LHS as Luke SkyToddler says. Isn't Asia very much the captain says what is to be done and you are just to shut up and do as you are told? Probably varies per Airline.
The airline is not important, neither is the type to be flown. It is a twin jet more isn't relevant.
What I am interested in is how do other airlines look at pilots who fly for these airlines. Will it increase my chances of getting a job back in Europe after a couple of years out there.
Am also a bit concerned about the person in the LHS as Luke SkyToddler says. Isn't Asia very much the captain says what is to be done and you are just to shut up and do as you are told? Probably varies per Airline.
You got several responses.
You didn't like the responses.
You asked the same question again.
Do you think you'll get different responses this time?
An interesting thing about banging your head against a wall. When you stop it feels really good.
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Luke SkyToddler,
Quote: "most corrupt countries on earth".
Really now..you're kidding yourself here, take a look where you are!
That's right, you don't see those things.
Quote: "international air safety regs have seen them banned from 90% of the world's airspace".
They wouldn't be denied from flying into Australia tomorrow.
Quote:
"The other one of us, is getting paid loads of tax free money to fly brand spankin new widebodies around every mega international airport in Europe, Asia, Oz and USA. So I'm glad that you feel like laughing at my expense mate because I'm sure as hell doing the same at yours".
That's right, i'm sure you're happy living in a 40 degree desert, it's where you really belong.
Unfortunantely you're stuck there because there are no opportunities for you returning to a similar role in your resident country, as you got to start from the bottom of the seniority list.
It's like trying to log into a computer but you're locked out!
You just enjoy your life as an expat in the desert.
Life is more enjoyable living here in OZ, a first world country, than living permanently in your foreign country where being an expat is nothing more than a drifter and a foreigner in a country you don't belong in.
I've noticed you regularly post items, that a sign of home sickness!
I earn the same as you mister!
I don't have to live in the desert as yourself.
Cheers.
Edgington,
I agree with your thoughts, it does make sense and these guys cannot give you a proper answer.
There were a good 50 jobs advertised for 737 F/O internationally, but a person needed time on type.
If you want to head in that direction, you got to do your homework and take a calculated risk!
Quote: "most corrupt countries on earth".
Really now..you're kidding yourself here, take a look where you are!
That's right, you don't see those things.
Quote: "international air safety regs have seen them banned from 90% of the world's airspace".
They wouldn't be denied from flying into Australia tomorrow.
Quote:
"The other one of us, is getting paid loads of tax free money to fly brand spankin new widebodies around every mega international airport in Europe, Asia, Oz and USA. So I'm glad that you feel like laughing at my expense mate because I'm sure as hell doing the same at yours".
That's right, i'm sure you're happy living in a 40 degree desert, it's where you really belong.
Unfortunantely you're stuck there because there are no opportunities for you returning to a similar role in your resident country, as you got to start from the bottom of the seniority list.
It's like trying to log into a computer but you're locked out!
You just enjoy your life as an expat in the desert.
Life is more enjoyable living here in OZ, a first world country, than living permanently in your foreign country where being an expat is nothing more than a drifter and a foreigner in a country you don't belong in.
I've noticed you regularly post items, that a sign of home sickness!
I earn the same as you mister!
I don't have to live in the desert as yourself.
Cheers.
Edgington,
I agree with your thoughts, it does make sense and these guys cannot give you a proper answer.
There were a good 50 jobs advertised for 737 F/O internationally, but a person needed time on type.
If you want to head in that direction, you got to do your homework and take a calculated risk!
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Let's call a shovel a shovel, and a spade a spade...
Unless things have changed as of late...
All CAE deals are P2F.
As we say in Spanish, first you 'release the chicken' (25-30k€ depending on the airline), then you get a contract and training.
If I'm not mistaken, when I received the e-mail, LionAir was offering a marginal salary of about 1000€/month. I don't remember if they paid accomodation and transport, medicals, renewal, etc...
I don't know if this has changed.
Do they really love it or is this the same as when you guys go to AZ, writing cool stuff and pics on faceb//k, but then you spend all day bitching about how boring and hot and bla bla bla is there?
Greetings / Pablo Caride
Yes it is Lionair but not P2F.
From my flying school a lot of people went to Lionair via the CAE deal.
All CAE deals are P2F.
As we say in Spanish, first you 'release the chicken' (25-30k€ depending on the airline), then you get a contract and training.
If I'm not mistaken, when I received the e-mail, LionAir was offering a marginal salary of about 1000€/month. I don't remember if they paid accomodation and transport, medicals, renewal, etc...
I don't know if this has changed.
Do they really love it or is this the same as when you guys go to AZ, writing cool stuff and pics on faceb//k, but then you spend all day bitching about how boring and hot and bla bla bla is there?
Greetings / Pablo Caride
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To answer to the original question: I think it depends on the recruiter and interviewers. Some would not be aware or not care where you got your hours as long as you can prove you are a proficient pilot. Others will know about those airlines and care about it.
Take for example some members of this board that are against P2F or that do not like the idea of flying on those blacklisted airlines; they might be your recruiter/interviewer or part of the selection process, and you will most likely not get hired by someone like that.
I myself would give a very hard time to an applicant during an interview if I were an interviewer and I knew the applicant had his/her time in a P2F scheme and in a blacklisted airline.
Take for example some members of this board that are against P2F or that do not like the idea of flying on those blacklisted airlines; they might be your recruiter/interviewer or part of the selection process, and you will most likely not get hired by someone like that.
I myself would give a very hard time to an applicant during an interview if I were an interviewer and I knew the applicant had his/her time in a P2F scheme and in a blacklisted airline.
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Why had the airline been blacklisted? Sometimes its maintenance issues, incorrect procedures or auditing measures. So not always related to flight crew operations. As mentioned make sure you follow procedures and maintain the highest standards always and in a sim check you should be able to eliminate any doubts.
