Worth Doing an Instructor Rating during Credit Crunch???
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If you can afford to spend the money on the course and lose it, then do it. It will increase your chances of gaining an instructing job when things pick up even if that's years away; I reckon it will be! To be honest, how many can afford to lose that kind of money right now?
I think if I was a wannabe right now I would probably spend a couple of grand on a good computer flight simulation setup and settle on a job outside of aviation (if you're lucky). At least that way when things do pick up your IFR skills will be fairly sharp. Not exactly living the dream, but a better way of keeping it alive I suggest.
I think if I was a wannabe right now I would probably spend a couple of grand on a good computer flight simulation setup and settle on a job outside of aviation (if you're lucky). At least that way when things do pick up your IFR skills will be fairly sharp. Not exactly living the dream, but a better way of keeping it alive I suggest.
Thanks for that MagicMick.
I think it unlikely that anyone will ever get an offer of a job before doing the course.
I did the FIC in 1998. I tried to get tentative offers before throwing away my office job to attend the FIC. At that point I had been a volunteer gliding instructor for several years and had taught around 30 16yr olds to fly Grob109b motorgliders. I was also working as a Training & Development Officer in industry and was actually teaching people how to conduct workplace training. I had glowing references from my VGS and UAS Commanding Officers and had nearly 500hrs total time with experience of taildraggers and aerobatic aircraft. The economy was really starting to boom with that nice Mr Blair in charge and house prices starting to rise and rise.
And I couldn't anything more than a non-committal offer to read my CV once I had the FI ticket in my hand.
Not even from the school down the road where I'd done my PPL and hour building who were busy and always needed new Instructors as the summer progressed.
It just doesn't happen. If there was a biting shortage of FI's and queues of people wanting PPL courses it might happen in theory. But now - no chance.
WWW
I think it unlikely that anyone will ever get an offer of a job before doing the course.
I did the FIC in 1998. I tried to get tentative offers before throwing away my office job to attend the FIC. At that point I had been a volunteer gliding instructor for several years and had taught around 30 16yr olds to fly Grob109b motorgliders. I was also working as a Training & Development Officer in industry and was actually teaching people how to conduct workplace training. I had glowing references from my VGS and UAS Commanding Officers and had nearly 500hrs total time with experience of taildraggers and aerobatic aircraft. The economy was really starting to boom with that nice Mr Blair in charge and house prices starting to rise and rise.
And I couldn't anything more than a non-committal offer to read my CV once I had the FI ticket in my hand.
Not even from the school down the road where I'd done my PPL and hour building who were busy and always needed new Instructors as the summer progressed.
It just doesn't happen. If there was a biting shortage of FI's and queues of people wanting PPL courses it might happen in theory. But now - no chance.
WWW
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Agree with WWW, there is absolutely no way any flight school will offer you a gauranteed job before comitting to FI Course. I suppose its a matter of luck and timing similar to airline jobs. If you're in the right place in the right time you'll get a job once you have the FI Rating.
I think people people are disregarding the fact that Instructors don't only teach PPL's, especially part timers. Most of their flying hours are actually Trial lessons and AOC charter flights i.e scenic flights etc. With the spring approaching (best time to fly), many people are going to be making the most of their weekends. Granted the economy is not great and will not be for the next few years, but the only people to suffer in these uncertain times are people made redundant, or have seen a great decrease in their income (and also most of us pilots / wannabees). those that are fortunate enough to keep their jobs will probably have a bit of extra cash to spend (due to the lowering interest rates) and its these people who will spend their weekends in flying clubs for trial lessons whether or not they commit to a ppl. Would anybody agree with these thoughts??
Personally, I cannot commit to full time instructors job yet because the pay would not be enough for me to survive. I would only do it Part time during this year and then see if i can afford to go full time later.
A couple of days ago i was leaning towards ''FIC is a wise decision''. Today i'm back to 50/50 taking into account MagicMick and WWW's comments.
Appreciate all your comments so far people. keep them coming.
regards
MHN
I think people people are disregarding the fact that Instructors don't only teach PPL's, especially part timers. Most of their flying hours are actually Trial lessons and AOC charter flights i.e scenic flights etc. With the spring approaching (best time to fly), many people are going to be making the most of their weekends. Granted the economy is not great and will not be for the next few years, but the only people to suffer in these uncertain times are people made redundant, or have seen a great decrease in their income (and also most of us pilots / wannabees). those that are fortunate enough to keep their jobs will probably have a bit of extra cash to spend (due to the lowering interest rates) and its these people who will spend their weekends in flying clubs for trial lessons whether or not they commit to a ppl. Would anybody agree with these thoughts??
Personally, I cannot commit to full time instructors job yet because the pay would not be enough for me to survive. I would only do it Part time during this year and then see if i can afford to go full time later.
A couple of days ago i was leaning towards ''FIC is a wise decision''. Today i'm back to 50/50 taking into account MagicMick and WWW's comments.
Appreciate all your comments so far people. keep them coming.
regards
MHN
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This all very well saying wait until things get better, fine if your early twenties and got time on your side.
I don't, I'm 34 I have 14 ATPL's on a time limit. at least I'm in with a chance if I have an FI ticket, even if it's weekend work and I will gladly move abroad. If I just stick with my PPL Then I've obviously no chance. You got to be in it to win it.
I don't, I'm 34 I have 14 ATPL's on a time limit. at least I'm in with a chance if I have an FI ticket, even if it's weekend work and I will gladly move abroad. If I just stick with my PPL Then I've obviously no chance. You got to be in it to win it.
So I start my CPL/FI in May, maybe I'm stupid, time will tell.
Most airlines don't give a stuff about your age until you get to 50.
34 is young.
Your rating will expire in 2 years with no work.
WWW
34 is young.
Your rating will expire in 2 years with no work.
WWW
I'd save money to help keep your IR current whilst job hunting for the next 4 years. Any additional funds would go towards the self sponsored type rating fund for the future.
You *can* keep your instrument flying skills somewhere near very cheaply on a home Flightsim and then hire a few hours in a basic instrument trainer which shouldn't cost more than £50 an hour.
The job market you can do nothing about. Making sure you pass the Sim Ride assessment you can.
WWW
You *can* keep your instrument flying skills somewhere near very cheaply on a home Flightsim and then hire a few hours in a basic instrument trainer which shouldn't cost more than £50 an hour.
The job market you can do nothing about. Making sure you pass the Sim Ride assessment you can.
WWW
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WWW - sound advice - on top of that, if anybody does decide on keeping up to date via home simulators, I don't care how many pages and topics could be created on the issue, stay clear of Microsoft flight sim and get X-Plane, I used to have it (still do in fact!) and it's very realistic and accurate for instrument flight practice.
If you want to fly circles around Ayre's Rock get Microsoft FS...
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If you want to fly circles around Ayre's Rock get Microsoft FS...
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I know this is encroaching slightly on another subject but since you talk about being an FI to build hours, some airlines appear to be of the opinion that they would rather employ a low hour with current IR than the slightly higher hour instructor.
Just something else to bear in mind.
I personally reckon (or maybe just hope) that aviation will start to pick up again about half way through 2010. So maybe 2009 would be a good year to either work hard and save money or go off and travel the world (if you can afford it).
Just something else to bear in mind.
I personally reckon (or maybe just hope) that aviation will start to pick up again about half way through 2010. So maybe 2009 would be a good year to either work hard and save money or go off and travel the world (if you can afford it).
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Some pros and cons to help decide:
Pros:
-another license or rating looks good on your cv and makes you more employable.
-the FI shows that you hit the books hard and worked hard to learn all aspects of flying, ie: dedication
-you can build time and have others pay the bill.
-you will learn plenty and it will make you a better pilot.
cons:
-the added expense as you mentioned.
-the low instructor wages to start with.
-not too many instructor jobs out there right now.
I instructed for years after not finding work post 9/11. I have no regrets however and gained valuable experience along the way.
I still instruct part-time to keep my FI current.
Good luck in whatever you chose.
Pros:
-another license or rating looks good on your cv and makes you more employable.
-the FI shows that you hit the books hard and worked hard to learn all aspects of flying, ie: dedication
-you can build time and have others pay the bill.
-you will learn plenty and it will make you a better pilot.
cons:
-the added expense as you mentioned.
-the low instructor wages to start with.
-not too many instructor jobs out there right now.
I instructed for years after not finding work post 9/11. I have no regrets however and gained valuable experience along the way.
I still instruct part-time to keep my FI current.
Good luck in whatever you chose.
Also FI licence will be an advantage when applying for instructor/training vacancies once you land a job in an airline.
If FI jobs are not available near you, go abroad. There are plenty of countries suffering from lack of instructors since the last reqruiting boom emptied the schools from experienced FI's. You also get to see places and different aviation culture from your own.
Also adding IRI(A) to your FI once you've got the IR experience will broaden your job horizons (doing part time IR instructing is paid quite well).
Good luck,
t. Olabade
ps. Passed my IRI(A) skill test yesterday
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Some sound if rather blund advice on here. My view is that if you really enjoy instructing and want to teach, do the FI rating and you will find a post eventually. You may earn just about enough to live off, but on the upside, getting paid for doing what used to be your hobbie can't be bad!
If you are just looking for any flying job during these difficult times and wouldn't otherwise look twice at instruction, best to save your money due to the poor state of the FI job market, and look elsewhere.
If you are just looking for any flying job during these difficult times and wouldn't otherwise look twice at instruction, best to save your money due to the poor state of the FI job market, and look elsewhere.
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Believe it or not there is FI work out there!! i know this for a fact..
I talked to an FI(I) a little while ago who told me very sensibly that there would never be a job offer made before they had a chance to look at your skill at teaching flying.. Think about it folks; if you were in the schools shoes wouldnt you want to see a prospective employee teach (albeit on the FI course) before offering them a job.. Be in no doubt if you get your FI rating and apply at another school where they dont know you; you will generally be asked to "teach" the CFI a lesson before an offer of employment is made..
so ask yourself this question.. Do i have the personality and ability to teach?? If yes go for it. I did and half way through my FIC i was told "we have no positions here but i know someone who runs another school and wants you to work there". This is how it happens..
I talked to an FI(I) a little while ago who told me very sensibly that there would never be a job offer made before they had a chance to look at your skill at teaching flying.. Think about it folks; if you were in the schools shoes wouldnt you want to see a prospective employee teach (albeit on the FI course) before offering them a job.. Be in no doubt if you get your FI rating and apply at another school where they dont know you; you will generally be asked to "teach" the CFI a lesson before an offer of employment is made..
so ask yourself this question.. Do i have the personality and ability to teach?? If yes go for it. I did and half way through my FIC i was told "we have no positions here but i know someone who runs another school and wants you to work there". This is how it happens..
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Slight twist to the original post - If you were an experienced airline pilot with 4500+ hrs flying the line, but through no fault of your own suddenly find yourself jobless would you shell out the £6000 or so to do an FI course?
It's something to do, its something you would enjoy and as has already been stated its a way to "keep your hand in". I imagine for some schools the fact that you've flown for airlines already would be a bonus when considering employment, conversely of course there may be others that would prefer a "self-improver".
With regard to the original poster, my personal opinion says don't bother save your money too. It's a hellish situation. We're not talking about a few job losses here, we're talking thousands of full ATPL experienced pilots now looking for work. A lot of them have seen this before, the airline industry is notoriously boom and bust. Have you tried Ryanair? They are after low hours guys, but it will no doubt cost you more than £6000. At least you may get a salary at the end of it.
Please respect that I'm not trying to shatter yours or anyone else's dream and by all means try anything you can to get your first job. Just realise that it is a gamble and you should only ever gamble with what you can afford to loose.
It's something to do, its something you would enjoy and as has already been stated its a way to "keep your hand in". I imagine for some schools the fact that you've flown for airlines already would be a bonus when considering employment, conversely of course there may be others that would prefer a "self-improver".
With regard to the original poster, my personal opinion says don't bother save your money too. It's a hellish situation. We're not talking about a few job losses here, we're talking thousands of full ATPL experienced pilots now looking for work. A lot of them have seen this before, the airline industry is notoriously boom and bust. Have you tried Ryanair? They are after low hours guys, but it will no doubt cost you more than £6000. At least you may get a salary at the end of it.
Please respect that I'm not trying to shatter yours or anyone else's dream and by all means try anything you can to get your first job. Just realise that it is a gamble and you should only ever gamble with what you can afford to loose.
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Once again thanks for all your input people, its much appreciated.
Jimbojet - appreciate your comments, I've tried Ryanair but was unsuccessful... May try again soon when they actively start recruiting again. I'm the kind of guy that gambles on certain winners only and it seems my gambling talents will not be enough in this situation.
My school is fully booked for FI Ratings until April so firstly, i have two months to decide whether to go ahead with it, Secondly this poses a problem of the FI market now being saturated as well. My school is very busy all year round and the fact they have so many people going for the FI rating is anther problem within itself.
Firend of mine has just finished FI rating and got a job so the jobs are there.
I'm seriously considering the opinions of people who suggested saving money for SSTR's if and when they are offered.
At this time, my only fear is not doing anything for 5 years or so waiting for the market to improve. Im 25 (i know its not too old.. but 5 years later I'll be a 30 year old with either 260 hrs total time or an Instructor with (hopefully) at least a few thousand hours. What would be appealing to an employer. I know Ryanair prefer low hour guys cos they turned down an excellent instructor with a few thousand hours because '' he didn't fit their profile'' even though his assessment was probably one of the best on the day.
more ideas and opinions welcome.
Regards
MHN
Jimbojet - appreciate your comments, I've tried Ryanair but was unsuccessful... May try again soon when they actively start recruiting again. I'm the kind of guy that gambles on certain winners only and it seems my gambling talents will not be enough in this situation.
My school is fully booked for FI Ratings until April so firstly, i have two months to decide whether to go ahead with it, Secondly this poses a problem of the FI market now being saturated as well. My school is very busy all year round and the fact they have so many people going for the FI rating is anther problem within itself.
Firend of mine has just finished FI rating and got a job so the jobs are there.
I'm seriously considering the opinions of people who suggested saving money for SSTR's if and when they are offered.
At this time, my only fear is not doing anything for 5 years or so waiting for the market to improve. Im 25 (i know its not too old.. but 5 years later I'll be a 30 year old with either 260 hrs total time or an Instructor with (hopefully) at least a few thousand hours. What would be appealing to an employer. I know Ryanair prefer low hour guys cos they turned down an excellent instructor with a few thousand hours because '' he didn't fit their profile'' even though his assessment was probably one of the best on the day.
more ideas and opinions welcome.
Regards
MHN
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Instructor
Do an instructor raring it will put you in good stead forever,everyone of my counterparts are now training Cpts on big jets as its always looked at later on in life.
DONT listen to the do nots its a great move even if you get stuck doing it for ages,in the bad times you can fall back on it and whether you teach on C152s or B747-400s its all the same,its about human watching and all the good TREs are ex C152 instructors or most of them.
Good luck ,ex C152 instructor now cpt on the upper deck!!1
DONT listen to the do nots its a great move even if you get stuck doing it for ages,in the bad times you can fall back on it and whether you teach on C152s or B747-400s its all the same,its about human watching and all the good TREs are ex C152 instructors or most of them.
Good luck ,ex C152 instructor now cpt on the upper deck!!1
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To me the big advantages are: - Keeping current, building hours constructively, seriously honing the flying skill's, getting myself near the top of the pile when things pick up for a TP job, earning some (although little) money, having another string to the bow, make some new contacts, have some fun flying (Might be slightly morbid but stalls and PFL's are great fun to me!)
Just the type of instructors flying clubs don't really need.
Flying instructing at PPL level never was meant to be a career for the multitude of budding commercial pilots - although it has for many, including myself, been a means of gaining hours at a low cost. I did at least put effort into the job and spent many hours teaching ground subjects on non-flying days and in the winter evenings. I was best man at the wedding of one of my students - he at least appreciated the effort I put in!!!
People seem to have lost track of the flying club mentality and see flying instructing as a somewhat selfish means of achieving their own ends at the expense of someone else - whether that be the flying school and/or the student.
That said, I would recommend anyone to complete an FI course - just remember, as with any teaching job, you're there for the student, not yourself!
KR
SITW
