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So where are all the jobs then?

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So where are all the jobs then?

Old 17th Jul 2007, 22:59
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: uk
Age: 40
Posts: 12
So where are all the jobs then?

So where are all the jobs then, if I know?
Spend 40 grand and put my heart and soul into getting my flight training done, first time passes on all tests and exams.
Spend the last 6 months of my life putting my heart and soul into sending out CVs filling in online forms, phoning up airlines, chasing any kind of faint job opportunity and what do I have to show for it, nothing. Complete waste of time. Not so much of an interview.
Yet I have stood and witnessed numerous people getting jobs because of who their father is within weeks of finishing training. Do they deserve it any more than me?

Is there any other industry where people trying to get their foot on the ladder have to go through so much demoralising crap, the longer they go without work the more they will get overlooked due to their currency dwindling and ratings lapsing? Where people stand still and watch their peers going places and building lives whilst theirs stagnates and rots?
At this moment in time if I could go back two years and not get into this stinking situation in the first place, I would do so with pleasure. Attempting to become an airline pilot thus far feels like the biggest mistake I have ever made. But I will not give up now that I have come this far. I will never surrender (at least for the time being) and maybe one day this disgusting situation will resolve itself. Right now my anger is driving me on to keep on trying. Sooner or later however the time may come to call it a bad job and get on with life, as many do.

Im sorry if this sounds discouraging to other wannabes but I feel that there are too many on this forum who have an unjustified optimism with respect to getting their first job. I was one such person. I went into this whole thing blind and foolish, thinking "ill be alright, ill be one of the lucky ones" etc etc, foolish thoughts.

Ive no doubt this post will be met with the usual:
"well if thats yer attitude then u dont deserve a job......"
"keep on trying, and one day something will happen........"
etc...., say what u like.
Vito Corleone is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2007, 23:03
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: bespin, the cloud city
Posts: 1,168
Go back to the land of your "grandparents"! There is the company you need and with THAT nick you should not have problems at all!

Don't say you like horses, anyway...
papazulu is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2007, 23:13
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: uk
Age: 40
Posts: 12
maybe I should just make BA an offer they cant refuse!
Vito Corleone is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2007, 00:26
  #4 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: In a house
Posts: 237
I know EXACTLY how you feel mate, I'm in the same position but with a few hours instruction under the belt.

Not even a sniff, one thing to look foward to (if you could call it that) is hopefully the flood gates will open up at the back end of the summer.

Chin up fella
SD. is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2007, 01:55
  #5 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: House
Posts: 405
Generation Zed has officially arrived.

Don't ever let hard work get in the way of self pity.

How dare they ignore thou in all thine glory.

Curious about the offer though, do tell.
nike is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2007, 06:39
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Middle of nowhere
Posts: 228
Rule 1. Don't get down-there are plenty of us wish we were in your situation (believe me).

Rule 2. Keep sending CVs. I read only yesterday that Flybe are looking for F/Os and will consider low hours guys.

Rule 3. Don't be afraid to write to all the top guys chief pilots etc: you only need one to say, this guy has some front-let's see him!

Keep at it-tomorrow is always a new day and the interview and offer might be just around the next corner!
bri1980 is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2007, 06:51
  #7 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Auckland
Posts: 67
I'm feeling ya

Unfortunately in this business and in most in the world it sometimes is a case of who you know not what you know. We see it all the time.

From my experience, was waiting eight months for a position to come up to move up from the bottom rung of the ladder. No bites at all and then suddenly within 3 weeks I had 3 companies offering me a position! talk about bad timing. I would have done any of them, but apparantly at the time I was wanted so I got to choo choo choose my preference. wow, don't get to say that very often!
pressed_on is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2007, 07:03
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2001
Location: England
Posts: 1,830
Tis why I always prat on about having a decent job during and after flying training. It will cushion the blow you will receive after 2 years have passed without a job (plus give you the money to SSTR )
Superpilot is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2007, 07:05
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Posts: 1,680
SIX MONTHS - you poor little diddums!

Gee aren't you glad you didn't graduate at the end of '01 ...
Luke SkyToddler is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2007, 07:34
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: on the dark side of the moon
Posts: 56
Yeah 6 month .. dont worry. . I would say you have finished ur flighttraining at a time where the buisness finally is getting better.
I finished in 2002 and I waited 4.5 years to get a job .
I finally decided to pay for my own TR, which did the trick and now i have my first job.
But ofcause... we all know how u feel.... I guess 90% of us hae been in the same and properly worse situation than u.
And I guess some of us(me included) have had theese moments where we thought this dream of flying never will come true.


2. Concider buying ur own TR (I know not everybody here agrees on this matter... but it has worked for a lot of people)

I wish u the best of luck
topper74 is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2007, 07:47
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 1,883

So just how many flying hours do you actually have and how are they broken down ?
beamer is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2007, 08:01
  #12 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: In the SIM
Posts: 967
Don't mean to stick the boot in chaps, but surely after doing your research, you knew what you were letting yourself in for? Most people know getting a job at the end of your training is equally has hard as the training itself. Everyone has put 110% of effort into their training and lots with first time passes, so I am afraid it does not make you unique.

To wait 6 months isnt long mate, there are plenty of people who have waited years for their first job, myself included. Don't let the dissapointment get you down, and certainly don't let it affect your attitude towards the industry. If you are determined enough you will make it.

The comment at the end of your post does indicate to me you are a little bitter, but believe me most of us have been there at one time or another.
CAT3C AUTOLAND is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2007, 08:06
  #13 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UAE
Posts: 662
Doing what you're done so far is fine, but it's not working?
Have you tried to increase your experience? Many including myself did not walk into a job straight from the end of training, we had to make ourselves look better, Instructing seems to be the best way to go, but there are others jobs if you can find them, ferry pilot, Para dropping, aerial photos, banner towing etc
Don't just target airlines; broaden your horizons.

Good Luck
YYZ is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2007, 08:19
  #14 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: EU
Posts: 961
Everybody is sick of this situation, and your post shows the truth and I would like all wannabes to read it before spending lot of cash in their training.

Times to times I met young guys telling me there is a shortage of pilots...and don't want believe me, when I answer they are short of very experienced captains.
They are on their way to spend all their cash,instead to learn a real job. They are foolish!

...resulting there are just to many pilots and not enough job offers.Everybody want a part of the cake, but when the cake is gone, the cake is gone!

So you have to apply, send many CV, and get another job during this time.Including cleaning restrooms if you have to.With money saved you can fly as a flight instructor, or buy a t-rating,...

this is what I 'm doing(lousy jobs), and I am in this business since 12-13 years and logged thousand of hours(cargo, para,instructor,...).12 years of struggling.Does it worth?not for me anymore....but why should I do something else?give up?

Recently I talked with my relatives, and I explained them that having done a t.rating on the bus, all I can do now is to apply and take a bad paid job during this time unless they want create a company only for me to get a job.

Airlines are here to make money, not to make you happy and they wont give you a job, because you said so.They will give you a job if they need more pilots in their new planes.

This industry is up an down.You have to see it as a worldwide industry.
By chance, the aviation industry is improving every month(many airbus sold recently, many orders for the next 5 years...), so keep looking.Jobs will come if you are persistent .

Last edited by dartagnan; 18th Jul 2007 at 08:48.
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Old 18th Jul 2007, 08:56
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,270
It's a real pisser when we invest so much time, effort and above all, money in something and then struggle to see the end result. However the end result is there, I am sure. A bit of positive mental attitude, and it will happen.

I only qualified in May, so I have been in the market for only a short time. I have spoken to lots of contacts and they have all tried to lend their support, however I always try not to build my hopes up too high. I realise that it is pretty unlikely that I will walk into a job immediately. As much as I hope it would be true, I always tried to tell myself and those I love that it probably won't happen. But I never want to keep my eyes off the bigger picture and I know I will get there soon. I am looking to start an FI course asap and I was lucky to get some 'ferry' flying from my local club last month. I have also been offered a few trips in a King Air to gain some operational experience. I know I will learn a lot from it. There are loads of airlines up here that require operational staff at the major Scottish airports. I am only 5mins from GLA and will probably be looking in that direction soon.

All these things will help the cause. I KNOW IT

Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 19th Jul 2007 at 23:52.
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Old 18th Jul 2007, 08:59
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Posts: 1,680
Harden up you bunch of muppets, its nothing but apathy and unwillingness to do REAL hard work (and I don't count sitting around sticking stamps on CVs as hard work sorry) and a greedy desire to jump the queue and nothing else that causes all this bloody whinging.

If you guys could for one second lose this ****ing obsession you've all got with big jets straight out of flying school, go do what the entire rest of the world does when they want a jet job, and EARN the right to fly the damn thing by working your way through the ranks. No I don't mean what you guys normally consider demeaning work which is lowering yourself to applying to Flybe instead of BA, I mean go and fly a bloody SINGLE PISTON again. Go and get yourselves FI ratings you'd all have jobs tomorrow, the schools are crying out for them. Oh but it's not glass cockpit multi crew turbine I hear you crying, not good enough for us British and european 200 hour guys, that kind of work is for colonials and americans and in fact the entire rest of the world.

Come back here when you've got a couple thousand instructing hours and can't get a 19 seat turboprop job and you'll get plenty of sympathy from me, come back again when you've got 5000 hours on the turboprop and still can't get that Boeing and you'll get plenty more. If you are fresh out of school and you aren't prepared to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to stay current and get some hours in that logbook then I sincerely hope that the people who showed some motivation and are busting their balls flying charters and parachutes and students, all get the jobs before you because they deserve it 1000 times more.

No doubt this post will cop me all kinds of flak from all you unemployed integrated lot. After you've written your paragraph venting your frustration at this arrogant old school airline hack, I would appreciate it if you could please append your post with a simple 'yes' or 'no' I do have an FI rating, and if not why not.

Last edited by Luke SkyToddler; 18th Jul 2007 at 09:21. Reason: Edited to say - good work callsign Kilo! Consider yourself exempt from my tirade
Luke SkyToddler is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2007, 09:35
  #17 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: uk
Age: 40
Posts: 12
Flying instruction, 6 grand outlay to get a job that will pay u what, 10 k a year?

U tell anybody else that who isnt a pilot they think ur mad. Yet in this rediculous world of aviation it seems like a good idea, like spending 40k to be unemployed, like paying 20k, buying ur own uniform and paying for ur own acommodation at ryan air seems to be like a good idea. All because pilot is such a good job, or so we think.

Every time I take a step back and look at what I am doing/ have done from a real world perspective, ie not from a perspective of somone who is desperate (dont know why to be honest) for some reason to fly planes for a living it makes my blood boil. At the moment I couldn't give a toss if I never flew a plane again, the only thing that's keeping me going with it all is the 40k "investment" I have made.
Vito Corleone is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2007, 09:46
  #18 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Dry bar
Posts: 351
'Hear Hear LST!' LOL! I could not agree more. Stop whinging and get qualified to instruct. Use your licence and get some experience under your belts! It always winds me up how people expect to by pass doing some form of apprenticeship in aviation. There simply are not enough jobs out there for you greener than grass wannabes ok!! Get your arses out flying some instructional stuff and maybe air taxi if you are lucky. Trust me, your oh so 'well done first time passes' mean nothing when competing for jobs against these guys. Let me tell you that the airlines are mostly overcrewed at the moment, the lo-cos are starting to cool, there are still jobs out there, but are they all for 200hr wannabes?

Guess what, No!
shaun ryder is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2007, 09:54
  #19 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: U.K
Posts: 81
Luke has it about right,

Get an FI rating and you will find employment today, put your heart and soul into it. If you cant and FI rating look at glider tugging or para dropping. The rest will come with time.
I did three years instructing and then two years tuboprop and to be honest those five years were the best time i've had so far and taught me more that I could hope. Mainly because I flew during my turboprop time with some true veterans of the industy and to be honest that time was invaluable.

I've now done 2.5 years in a loco of which the last 8 months have been left seat.

A jet job with 200 hours is what everyone seems to want these days but only the lucky few seem to get it straight from training.
STATLER is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2007, 10:32
  #20 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UAE
Posts: 662
Indeed, LST is not as delicate as me but he does hit the nail on the head, I only know a few who were lucky and got there first job on a jet, others had to Instruct (like me) etc, I even know several people who did cabin work for 6 months so they could get in via the back door!! None of these jobs are menial or should be below any of us! I really enjoyed my instructing, and as a plus, got reasonably well paid for it!

Do what you need to do; just because you have your magic blue book does not mean you are owed a job.

YYZ is offline  

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