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Hi CLAYCOM
You don't mince your words do you!
How about getting a job with scare malta now through the election coming up door and then the ideal position for you would be CULTURE ATTACHE!....Boy KMs management will love you
enjoy your day
ps - Lino's still about?
You don't mince your words do you!
How about getting a job with scare malta now through the election coming up door and then the ideal position for you would be CULTURE ATTACHE!....Boy KMs management will love you
enjoy your day
ps - Lino's still about?
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Claycomm, most of what you have said is true. Still, from some of your fuming comments I'm starting to think that somewhere along the lines, there is a sense of "sour grapes" if you know what I mean.
Yes, the company isn't doing too well, but that's hardly breaking news. The management has never been very good either. The only difference is that before, KM did not have (or had very little) competition on most of it's routes, thus enabling it to make loads of money even though plagued with management, political and over-staffing problems. So basically, you're saying nothing new. It's just that times and the aviation industry in general has changed and KM has struggled to keep abreast. The introduction of low-cost carriers has obviously made matters worse.
Regarding your "nice" words about the chairman at KM ... well he is just a figure-head unfortunately and rest assured that he is not on the astronomical wages you have hinted at. Chairman and board member remunerations were down graded big time as well (and rightly so). Last chairman to be on such a healthy package was LG (I'm sure you know who I mean). Also do not forget that this same guy who you say cannot distinguish an aircraft from a toothpick, apart from being one of the country's top economists was at the helm of MIA (Malta International Airport) for many years with enviable results. I don't think he should know anything about pilot's licenses either. That's what the management at Flight Ops is there for anyway.
Yes, the main problem at KM is indeed over-staffing but do not forget that it was the opposition party that you say you support that when in government burdened KM with a lot of the unnecessary people it still has today. One cannot but remember the 8000 jobs in various government establishments, including Air Malta that the present opposition party loaded onto Maltese tax payers a few days before the 1987 general election; a burden still being paid for nowadays.
Yes, the company isn't doing too well, but that's hardly breaking news. The management has never been very good either. The only difference is that before, KM did not have (or had very little) competition on most of it's routes, thus enabling it to make loads of money even though plagued with management, political and over-staffing problems. So basically, you're saying nothing new. It's just that times and the aviation industry in general has changed and KM has struggled to keep abreast. The introduction of low-cost carriers has obviously made matters worse.
Regarding your "nice" words about the chairman at KM ... well he is just a figure-head unfortunately and rest assured that he is not on the astronomical wages you have hinted at. Chairman and board member remunerations were down graded big time as well (and rightly so). Last chairman to be on such a healthy package was LG (I'm sure you know who I mean). Also do not forget that this same guy who you say cannot distinguish an aircraft from a toothpick, apart from being one of the country's top economists was at the helm of MIA (Malta International Airport) for many years with enviable results. I don't think he should know anything about pilot's licenses either. That's what the management at Flight Ops is there for anyway.
Yes, the main problem at KM is indeed over-staffing but do not forget that it was the opposition party that you say you support that when in government burdened KM with a lot of the unnecessary people it still has today. One cannot but remember the 8000 jobs in various government establishments, including Air Malta that the present opposition party loaded onto Maltese tax payers a few days before the 1987 general election; a burden still being paid for nowadays.
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Zickler,
you may have some valid points ,but we are NOT here to discuss PETTY POLITICS
or how KM has been driven through the ground,
But to factually state how things are and will be in the future.
The point is KM is a ticking time bomb following into the footsteps of other parastatal dinosaurs like SeaMalta. Its T&C's are crap,wages even worse and its just being held afloat till the most opportune time.
P.S. you might want to read between the lines when claycomm says he supports the opposition.
Hint: he might be referring to the future opposition.
you may have some valid points ,but we are NOT here to discuss PETTY POLITICS
or how KM has been driven through the ground,But to factually state how things are and will be in the future.
The point is KM is a ticking time bomb following into the footsteps of other parastatal dinosaurs like SeaMalta. Its T&C's are crap,wages even worse and its just being held afloat till the most opportune time.
P.S. you might want to read between the lines when claycomm says he supports the opposition.
Hint: he might be referring to the future opposition.
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Claycomm my reason for thinking along those lines is that you seem to hate KM with a passion, as if they wronged you somehow. I know as much as you that the pay isn't the best around, and that unless something is done very soon, KM will hit the bottom. The multitude of problems are there for all to see. Unfortunately, when politics are involved, changes seem to take forever, if they ever happen at all. Most of what you have said is true but sadly it's old news that's been going on for ages.
Regarding my mentioning the political situation in the past etc, I just wanted to set the record straight. Skylog, I don't think it was me who started talking petty politics, mentioning ministers and figures, but I had to reply for fairness' sake.
And a final question to claycomm - would you accept a job at KM had you been offered one? Honest answer appreciated
Regarding my mentioning the political situation in the past etc, I just wanted to set the record straight. Skylog, I don't think it was me who started talking petty politics, mentioning ministers and figures, but I had to reply for fairness' sake.
And a final question to claycomm - would you accept a job at KM had you been offered one? Honest answer appreciated
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... given the T&C's KM are offering at present I know what I would do .. no prizes for guessing! I have "heard" from extremly reliable sources that at the last call for interviews one of the applicants actually refused their offer! 
Can't wait for Claycomm's reply though!
SC
Can't wait for Claycomm's reply though!
SC
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"... considering that the real pay will start 10 months down the line ... "
claycomm do you call Lm7,600 gross p/a a REAL pay??? We're talking about AIRLINE PILOTS for Christ's sake! .. who are we kidding here? okay, okay one can argue that it's the "basic" ... but seriously guys .. how drastically can that figure be topped?
Money may not be the issue for some of us .. but I can guarantee it is for MOST .. everyone knows the figures for a JAR licence nowadays and fine I can live with funding for my own training ... but to accept to be bonded for 10 gruelling years - for what? - for paying more than double for my own type rating and being paid peanuts is pure out of this world INSANITY!
claycomm do you call Lm7,600 gross p/a a REAL pay??? We're talking about AIRLINE PILOTS for Christ's sake! .. who are we kidding here? okay, okay one can argue that it's the "basic" ... but seriously guys .. how drastically can that figure be topped?
Money may not be the issue for some of us .. but I can guarantee it is for MOST .. everyone knows the figures for a JAR licence nowadays and fine I can live with funding for my own training ... but to accept to be bonded for 10 gruelling years - for what? - for paying more than double for my own type rating and being paid peanuts is pure out of this world INSANITY!
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Zickler,
by no means did i mean to say that you started talking petty politics,
i just didnt want this post to turn into a political tit for tat as is common on our little rock which would make Lou Bondi proud
. So no hard feelings.
Claycomm,Thank you for the compliment.
I must agree that the current wages & T&C's at KM are an embarrasment(especially since its my national airline) but one could easily be blinded for a second with the prospect of flying a 320,...........luckily i saw the light!!
by no means did i mean to say that you started talking petty politics,
i just didnt want this post to turn into a political tit for tat as is common on our little rock which would make Lou Bondi proud
. So no hard feelings.Claycomm,Thank you for the compliment.
I must agree that the current wages & T&C's at KM are an embarrasment(especially since its my national airline) but one could easily be blinded for a second with the prospect of flying a 320,...........luckily i saw the light!!
Last edited by skylog; 21st Mar 2007 at 13:27.
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What you lot are saying about KM is absolutely correct but do not forget that in Malta we're very limited when it comes to job opportunities for pilots. Unless you want to move abroad, everything boils down to 3 options.
You can get a job on the right seat of the Lear 45 with EuroJet. On paper a great job but everyone knows what your role as first officer would be at that company. Seeing that most people leave after barely a year proves my point and I don't need to go into any more details.
Then there is Medavia, an excellent company, good wages and conditions but at the end of the day, you're working in Libya, which is not exactly the nicest place on earth to be. A CASA 212 type rating won't get you very far if you eventually want to leave, although turbo-prop time is very valuable as well, but at the end of the day, you'd have to be type rated on another aircraft to get another job. Having flown there (Libya) before makes me want to steer as far away as possible from that country.
Which leaves you with KM. As previously said, conditions are awful but an A320 type rating opens many doors to eventual greener pastures once your contract is over and you decide to leave. The experience gained on-line is also invaluable since you're operating in European airspace to major airports, flying one of the youngest fleets around.
So basically we're not exactly spoilt for choice in Malta, unless you want to move abroad. A job with a foreign carrier isn't the easiest thing to get into anyway. Having a license and no prospective job makes you do what in different circumstances you would have thought twice about, and rightly so.
I hope you guys see my point. It's a case of trying to go for the lesser evil and minimizing your losses. The aviation industry is not what it used to be and in the last few years it has become increasingly difficult for pilots to get the right job at the right time.
You can get a job on the right seat of the Lear 45 with EuroJet. On paper a great job but everyone knows what your role as first officer would be at that company. Seeing that most people leave after barely a year proves my point and I don't need to go into any more details.
Then there is Medavia, an excellent company, good wages and conditions but at the end of the day, you're working in Libya, which is not exactly the nicest place on earth to be. A CASA 212 type rating won't get you very far if you eventually want to leave, although turbo-prop time is very valuable as well, but at the end of the day, you'd have to be type rated on another aircraft to get another job. Having flown there (Libya) before makes me want to steer as far away as possible from that country.
Which leaves you with KM. As previously said, conditions are awful but an A320 type rating opens many doors to eventual greener pastures once your contract is over and you decide to leave. The experience gained on-line is also invaluable since you're operating in European airspace to major airports, flying one of the youngest fleets around.
So basically we're not exactly spoilt for choice in Malta, unless you want to move abroad. A job with a foreign carrier isn't the easiest thing to get into anyway. Having a license and no prospective job makes you do what in different circumstances you would have thought twice about, and rightly so.
I hope you guys see my point. It's a case of trying to go for the lesser evil and minimizing your losses. The aviation industry is not what it used to be and in the last few years it has become increasingly difficult for pilots to get the right job at the right time.
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Zickler the reason why i personally do not think that KM is the lesser evil is because ,
i. with its current wages i would not be able to make good for the money invested in my training
ii. sustain myself through that sole income.
iii. would be basically paying the company to work for it(a trend which is
increasing in this industry)
iv.Bonded for 10 years(a life time in this industry) against 100,000 euros.
v. Pay LM15000 for type rating.
vi.Be just a number while the fatcats line their pockets till the company goes bust.
I totally agree with you that beggars cannot be choosers ,but its no excuse to be blinded and go in head first jeopardising your mental health just for the sake of flying a A320.
i. with its current wages i would not be able to make good for the money invested in my training
ii. sustain myself through that sole income.
iii. would be basically paying the company to work for it(a trend which is
increasing in this industry)
iv.Bonded for 10 years(a life time in this industry) against 100,000 euros.
v. Pay LM15000 for type rating.
vi.Be just a number while the fatcats line their pockets till the company goes bust.
I totally agree with you that beggars cannot be choosers ,but its no excuse to be blinded and go in head first jeopardising your mental health just for the sake of flying a A320.
Last edited by skylog; 22nd Mar 2007 at 00:03.
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KM
Sorry Mate, but I rather fly for Medavia than Air malta, since I am flying an airplane without owing LM 15,000 and make more than 2500euro's tax free. Yeah you start at casa, then with new prospects now Medavia has 3 Dash 8 and everyone is moving along. Oh by the way Medavia in not bankrupt either, at least the money is still rolling.
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As Flying Aggie pointed out, he is not bonded for 10 yrs .. definately not more than 2 .. and if he likes what he's getting at the end of the day he can stay - realistically moving onto a Dash 8 - which rules out zickler's reasoning as to being stuck with a C212 type rating.
Secondly I think zickler is missing another important point here regarding "greener pastures". We all aspire to be made captains one day - right? If I had to join KM now at 29, my bond would see me finish at 39. I know for sure that those are gonna be a full 10 yrs of F/O time .. KM has way too much F/O's in there struggling up that ladder before me. So say you are lucky and a prospective foreign carrier will hire you as an F/O at 40 (very unlikely!) - guess what??? you're gonna find yourself fighting up that ladder again! Hell .. I know ex-KM captains who have left KM for an F/O position and some of which occupied the highest positions too .. let alone us ..See where I'm getting zick?
So I tend to disagree heavily with you saying that KM is the "lesser evil" of all options available ... again that's only my opinion ... maybe you're still in your early 20's ....
SC
Secondly I think zickler is missing another important point here regarding "greener pastures". We all aspire to be made captains one day - right? If I had to join KM now at 29, my bond would see me finish at 39. I know for sure that those are gonna be a full 10 yrs of F/O time .. KM has way too much F/O's in there struggling up that ladder before me. So say you are lucky and a prospective foreign carrier will hire you as an F/O at 40 (very unlikely!) - guess what??? you're gonna find yourself fighting up that ladder again!
Hell .. I know ex-KM captains who have left KM for an F/O position and some of which occupied the highest positions too .. let alone us ..See where I'm getting zick?So I tend to disagree heavily with you saying that KM is the "lesser evil" of all options available ... again that's only my opinion ... maybe you're still in your early 20's ....
SC
Last edited by skycaptain; 21st Mar 2007 at 18:54.
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Its not just about being stuck with a CASA Type, since as mentioned one can always move on especially with a fast expanding company like Medavia,
after all i understand the CASA is one of the only planes that can do the job its intended to do in Libya,
After having a few hours on a T/P you will either stay within the company moving up the ladder, be lucky enough and have a Type paid for by another airline or failing that be bonded within reason.
What is being discussed here is the unreasonable wages and T&C's being offered by KM.
P.S. Libya is not as bad at it used to be & being above MSL its even better.
after all i understand the CASA is one of the only planes that can do the job its intended to do in Libya,
After having a few hours on a T/P you will either stay within the company moving up the ladder, be lucky enough and have a Type paid for by another airline or failing that be bonded within reason.
What is being discussed here is the unreasonable wages and T&C's being offered by KM.
P.S. Libya is not as bad at it used to be & being above MSL its even better.
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Guys ok, it's obvious that KM is not the best place to be, but remember that if it all goes pear-shaped and you want to leave after 5 years for example, you can do so against a payment of approx 15k. Ok it's no small sum, but as many of you said, you can make that money easily in a year at a good airline. It's not like you're chained there forever or for the whole 10 year period. My point is proven by the many pilots that have left many years before their bond expiry was due. Ok you have to pay, but with an Airbus type rating and a couple thousand hours on type, you're almost spoilt for choice if you eventually want to leave.
Anyway, it's obvious that we can never agree on certain matters. I agree with most of what you lot are saying, I mean no one can deny certain facts, but certain situations in life make people do what they would not have done or thought about twice in other circumstances.
Anyway, it's obvious that we can never agree on certain matters. I agree with most of what you lot are saying, I mean no one can deny certain facts, but certain situations in life make people do what they would not have done or thought about twice in other circumstances.
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Zickler as CC said you come up with some good arguments,
however there is no way with the current wages at KM that you will come up with an extra LM 15000 to pay of your type,certainly not if you have to pay KM a part of your salary every month,
pay off personal loans that you had to fund your previous training and finally the 100,000 Euros bond now allegedly in effect with KM.
One will end up as i stated earlier, paying to work for them.
Anyway i think there now is enough info for everyone regarding KM ,it all depends on each and everyones personal situation and thoughts on how to go about it.
Happy Landings!
however there is no way with the current wages at KM that you will come up with an extra LM 15000 to pay of your type,certainly not if you have to pay KM a part of your salary every month,
pay off personal loans that you had to fund your previous training and finally the 100,000 Euros bond now allegedly in effect with KM.
One will end up as i stated earlier, paying to work for them.
Anyway i think there now is enough info for everyone regarding KM ,it all depends on each and everyones personal situation and thoughts on how to go about it.
Happy Landings!
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I think your getting it wrong here guys re: the Maltese etc.
The basings will no doubt be for their sub-charter uk basings, for which British pilots already hold contracts. You would be flying identical routes to the other bucket and spade carriers, with the 'Maltese' thing not even coming into it. They even use British crew.
I work side by side with the KM engineer at BRS - top chap!! All the best!
The basings will no doubt be for their sub-charter uk basings, for which British pilots already hold contracts. You would be flying identical routes to the other bucket and spade carriers, with the 'Maltese' thing not even coming into it. They even use British crew.
I work side by side with the KM engineer at BRS - top chap!! All the best!