Astraeus
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Essex
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sir Donald I don’t need your sympathy and wasn’t asking for it.
There are many gross generalisations in your post that also lacks direction and clarity. Quote “failure after failure” too whom are you referring? Who are you to say who fits the bill without meeting myself or others concerned.
Your “only the useless” ramble reflects only on your sate of mind and outlook on life. Every “sharp tool” has weaknesses and will make mistakes. The “Majority” tainted by yourself as useless have many strengths. I agree that some people who undertake TR’s are not suitable or up to the job but management / leadership in wider markets and CRM in aviation are about appreciation of strengths and weaknesses, experience and lack of, and managing the team to achieve the desired result.
Unimuts how I chose to spend my money is my concern, I earned it serving this country in some god forsaken holes around the world. My aim is to ensure that I get value for money. Having purchased a type rating I am willing to buy the hours that will get me a job!
There are many gross generalisations in your post that also lacks direction and clarity. Quote “failure after failure” too whom are you referring? Who are you to say who fits the bill without meeting myself or others concerned.
Your “only the useless” ramble reflects only on your sate of mind and outlook on life. Every “sharp tool” has weaknesses and will make mistakes. The “Majority” tainted by yourself as useless have many strengths. I agree that some people who undertake TR’s are not suitable or up to the job but management / leadership in wider markets and CRM in aviation are about appreciation of strengths and weaknesses, experience and lack of, and managing the team to achieve the desired result.
Unimuts how I chose to spend my money is my concern, I earned it serving this country in some god forsaken holes around the world. My aim is to ensure that I get value for money. Having purchased a type rating I am willing to buy the hours that will get me a job!
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: kylie's gusset
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice one ngenfire,and as for you sir donald and unimuts try getting your heads out of your ar.., the reality nowadays is that the sstr is the reality, it came about with the low cost boys (FR)etc and now everyone else is following.
Sir Donald i can only guess most of your stories/sentences start with "in my day" how you can be so arrogant as to come out with that load of bollocks is beyond me,i happen to know ngenfire and in past while serving queen and country has been in some nasty places that would probably have wazzing down your best tweeds,the guy has had a hard time getting to this point along with alot of other people in the same situation.
Its always easy to be wise after the fact and you are probably lucky enough to have not paid for your training but thats not the reality now.
This thread was started by someone who asked about the assesment,instead we get people who want to make a point rather than contribute to question asked.
god i hope you are not on an interwiew panel of some sort
Sir Donald i can only guess most of your stories/sentences start with "in my day" how you can be so arrogant as to come out with that load of bollocks is beyond me,i happen to know ngenfire and in past while serving queen and country has been in some nasty places that would probably have wazzing down your best tweeds,the guy has had a hard time getting to this point along with alot of other people in the same situation.
Its always easy to be wise after the fact and you are probably lucky enough to have not paid for your training but thats not the reality now.
This thread was started by someone who asked about the assesment,instead we get people who want to make a point rather than contribute to question asked.
god i hope you are not on an interwiew panel of some sort
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: At home
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sir Donald, so your advocating descrimination on the basis of where and how a person trained?
1. Whats your basis for this?
2. Whats your justification for this position?
3. Surely descrimination like this leads your "outfit" wide open to legal action?
I would be the first to admit that I am not a fan of the SSTR, if you do a search on here you will see that..but simply tarring all those that enter into a scheme such as this with the same brush, is snobbery in its worst form, furthermore it shows a complete lack commercial awareness, a refresher course costs a damn sight less than a complete type rating.
Sir Donald, it mayby that you were fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time..you said the right things..(plenty of people have done just that and still been unlucky) and now your in a position to look down and pass judgement apon those who you percieve to be unworthy, which seems to be based on your own narrow interpretation on who is competant. And lets be honest here...its all someones opinion after all.
Mayby Sir Donald you would do yourself a big favour by offering alternative, and constructive advice, rather than spouting off like the arrogant person you appear to be. Should they all be blond haired and blue eyed I wonder??
1. Whats your basis for this?
2. Whats your justification for this position?
3. Surely descrimination like this leads your "outfit" wide open to legal action?
I would be the first to admit that I am not a fan of the SSTR, if you do a search on here you will see that..but simply tarring all those that enter into a scheme such as this with the same brush, is snobbery in its worst form, furthermore it shows a complete lack commercial awareness, a refresher course costs a damn sight less than a complete type rating.
Sir Donald, it mayby that you were fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time..you said the right things..(plenty of people have done just that and still been unlucky) and now your in a position to look down and pass judgement apon those who you percieve to be unworthy, which seems to be based on your own narrow interpretation on who is competant. And lets be honest here...its all someones opinion after all.
Mayby Sir Donald you would do yourself a big favour by offering alternative, and constructive advice, rather than spouting off like the arrogant person you appear to be. Should they all be blond haired and blue eyed I wonder??
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sir Donald,
It seems very strange that your company does'nt take any one from the above scheme and yet nearly everyone who has finished the scheme seems to be getting jobs with other airlines.
You seem to take good pleasure in looking down at people who are trying very hard to get the first step on the ladder.
Yes in the perfect world the airlines would pay for our training, but by someone paying for their training does'nt mean they are a bad pilot.
As a pilot of many years i expect, you are meant to show leadership and give incentive to young and up comming pilots to help them gather there foot hold.
Maybe if you had a forces background you might think of other people and how you can help them and not about yourself all the time.
I wonder if you were in the same situation, would you have the courage to take that step?
It seems very strange that your company does'nt take any one from the above scheme and yet nearly everyone who has finished the scheme seems to be getting jobs with other airlines.
You seem to take good pleasure in looking down at people who are trying very hard to get the first step on the ladder.
Yes in the perfect world the airlines would pay for our training, but by someone paying for their training does'nt mean they are a bad pilot.
As a pilot of many years i expect, you are meant to show leadership and give incentive to young and up comming pilots to help them gather there foot hold.
Maybe if you had a forces background you might think of other people and how you can help them and not about yourself all the time.
I wonder if you were in the same situation, would you have the courage to take that step?
Guest
Posts: n/a
It's not just Ngenfire in this situation, and it's NOT that Astraeus were unaware of this situation.
There's around 20 people sat in the Global hold pool alone waiting on jobs and additional hours, myself included.
The relationship between Global Aviation Solutions (previously part of Storm recruitment, and now renamed to International Aviation Solutions) is beyond me. Some of the same staff appear to work for both companies and share the same premises.
Giving the benefit of the doubt, and assuming they are different entities.....
Astraeus:
Can't fault the training provided. Very professional in their approach to both training and flying operations. If you are simply after a type rating, or are offered employment with them, I would recommend them wholeheartedly.
HOWEVER.....
Astraeus were providing line training to people from GAS, Bond, and Eaglejet. They over extended themselves and there were huge delays in line training. I had to wait for six months to complete just 10 flights. I think the reason you can't buy hours from them is that they have realised they are an operational airline and the money from providing line training doesn't compensate for the extra administration and aggrivation.
Global/International Aviation Solutions:
The only reason I decided to pay for a rating was their history of placing people in employment afterwards. When I sat the assessment day they had succeeded in placing 98% of applicants with customer airlines, the other 2% were allegedly unsuitable which I have no reason to disbelieve. Unfortunately this stopped at the course behind us. There are now approximately 20 people sat in the hold pool, and some have been there for nearly a year.
I believe this is partially down to bad luck. The customer airlines had various reasons to stop taking people fromm GAS which are outside this discussion, so if you are thinking of applying to Global, bear this in mind. I don't actually think they are considering any more applicants, and I think they are hoping the people in the hold pool will just quietly disappear.
A sad story of bad luck and maybe bad judgement on behalf of the customer, the airline, and the recrutiment organsiation. Will they contact us all Hamrah?
Edited for rushed typos!
There's around 20 people sat in the Global hold pool alone waiting on jobs and additional hours, myself included.
The relationship between Global Aviation Solutions (previously part of Storm recruitment, and now renamed to International Aviation Solutions) is beyond me. Some of the same staff appear to work for both companies and share the same premises.
Giving the benefit of the doubt, and assuming they are different entities.....
Astraeus:
Can't fault the training provided. Very professional in their approach to both training and flying operations. If you are simply after a type rating, or are offered employment with them, I would recommend them wholeheartedly.
HOWEVER.....
Astraeus were providing line training to people from GAS, Bond, and Eaglejet. They over extended themselves and there were huge delays in line training. I had to wait for six months to complete just 10 flights. I think the reason you can't buy hours from them is that they have realised they are an operational airline and the money from providing line training doesn't compensate for the extra administration and aggrivation.
Global/International Aviation Solutions:
The only reason I decided to pay for a rating was their history of placing people in employment afterwards. When I sat the assessment day they had succeeded in placing 98% of applicants with customer airlines, the other 2% were allegedly unsuitable which I have no reason to disbelieve. Unfortunately this stopped at the course behind us. There are now approximately 20 people sat in the hold pool, and some have been there for nearly a year.
I believe this is partially down to bad luck. The customer airlines had various reasons to stop taking people fromm GAS which are outside this discussion, so if you are thinking of applying to Global, bear this in mind. I don't actually think they are considering any more applicants, and I think they are hoping the people in the hold pool will just quietly disappear.
A sad story of bad luck and maybe bad judgement on behalf of the customer, the airline, and the recrutiment organsiation. Will they contact us all Hamrah?
Edited for rushed typos!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: TYLOS
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Ngenfire and Tripitaka,
You both made some interesting points but I would like to address a few of these from the Bond Aviation perspective.
Firstly, It has always been made clear to anybody enrolling onto the IAC programme that Bond/AEU are merely the training provider to IAC Ltd (previously Global Aviation Solutions). Bond/AEU have always been focussed on providing these students with only the best quality of training both in the classroom, the simulator and on the line. Bond/AEU cannot be held responsible for any of the students on these courses not finding immediate employment. Any questions, complaints or information with regard to employment possibilities should in the first instance be made to the commercial director of IAC Ltd. If you are/were a student on the IAC/Global programme you will no doubt have attended the meeting that Ngenfire details and will therefore know who the relevant point of contact at IAC is.
Tripitaka, I have investigated and would like to confirm at last count there only 12 people left in the current Global/IAC pool without jobs. I am aware that a number this summer have been taken on by AEU, BMI Baby, Ryanair, Fly Globespan, SkyEurope to name a few. Although I don't have the exact figures to hand, I can't think of anyone that has been in the pool for 12 months plus (except perhaps 1 student who has a very individual case). I am sure that in the current employment climate these 12 students will find suitable employment either with or without IAC's help in the next few months.
As I understand it, IAC are no longer accepting people onto the programme and Bond certainly haven’t been asked to train anybody for them on the scheme since the beginning of Jan 05. Bond is in the final stages of completing it’s current training commitment to IAC with the last couple of students finishing their line training in the next couple of weeks.
With regards to the delays in line training, this was fully explained at the aforementioned meeting which I am guessing you attended. The major problem was identified as the considerable expansion in AEU AOC operations which was not foreseen when line training was committed to, for IAC, Bond and other external customers. The expansion of the AOC meant that the airline had to recruit a large number of crew in a very short period of time. This resulted in a training bulge within the AOC which could not be avoided (As you will know, all new crew to AEU, even the most experienced Captains require some degree of line training). Ultimately, the growth and success of the airline is fundamental to Bond Aviation being able to provide line training on an ongoing basis to it’s various customers.
Ngenfire, I understand the reason that you are unable to purchase additional line training has been explained to you by the Bond/AEU training staff but I think this falls outside a public forum.
I hope this clarifies some of the points you raised and I wish you all the best in your continued training and search for employment.
Lookoutbelow
You both made some interesting points but I would like to address a few of these from the Bond Aviation perspective.
Firstly, It has always been made clear to anybody enrolling onto the IAC programme that Bond/AEU are merely the training provider to IAC Ltd (previously Global Aviation Solutions). Bond/AEU have always been focussed on providing these students with only the best quality of training both in the classroom, the simulator and on the line. Bond/AEU cannot be held responsible for any of the students on these courses not finding immediate employment. Any questions, complaints or information with regard to employment possibilities should in the first instance be made to the commercial director of IAC Ltd. If you are/were a student on the IAC/Global programme you will no doubt have attended the meeting that Ngenfire details and will therefore know who the relevant point of contact at IAC is.
Tripitaka, I have investigated and would like to confirm at last count there only 12 people left in the current Global/IAC pool without jobs. I am aware that a number this summer have been taken on by AEU, BMI Baby, Ryanair, Fly Globespan, SkyEurope to name a few. Although I don't have the exact figures to hand, I can't think of anyone that has been in the pool for 12 months plus (except perhaps 1 student who has a very individual case). I am sure that in the current employment climate these 12 students will find suitable employment either with or without IAC's help in the next few months.
As I understand it, IAC are no longer accepting people onto the programme and Bond certainly haven’t been asked to train anybody for them on the scheme since the beginning of Jan 05. Bond is in the final stages of completing it’s current training commitment to IAC with the last couple of students finishing their line training in the next couple of weeks.
With regards to the delays in line training, this was fully explained at the aforementioned meeting which I am guessing you attended. The major problem was identified as the considerable expansion in AEU AOC operations which was not foreseen when line training was committed to, for IAC, Bond and other external customers. The expansion of the AOC meant that the airline had to recruit a large number of crew in a very short period of time. This resulted in a training bulge within the AOC which could not be avoided (As you will know, all new crew to AEU, even the most experienced Captains require some degree of line training). Ultimately, the growth and success of the airline is fundamental to Bond Aviation being able to provide line training on an ongoing basis to it’s various customers.
Ngenfire, I understand the reason that you are unable to purchase additional line training has been explained to you by the Bond/AEU training staff but I think this falls outside a public forum.
I hope this clarifies some of the points you raised and I wish you all the best in your continued training and search for employment.
Lookoutbelow
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Essex
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lookoutbelow, Hamrah
Thank you for your reply, however I found it unsatisfactory.
A fine example of smoke and mirrors. You refer to IAC as a limited company. As I have never had direct dealings with this company and all pre-course “sales” and course administration was conducted through Astraeus’ offices and by staff appearing to work for Astraeus please post IAC’s registered company number!
Would you also care to post the Bond management’s directorships and interests in IAC (Global Aviation Solutions), when they were resigned and why?
I believe there were inherent problems with the “Global Programme” prior to my course commencing and the company line was to take the money now and deal with the fallout later.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Ngenfire
Thank you for your reply, however I found it unsatisfactory.
A fine example of smoke and mirrors. You refer to IAC as a limited company. As I have never had direct dealings with this company and all pre-course “sales” and course administration was conducted through Astraeus’ offices and by staff appearing to work for Astraeus please post IAC’s registered company number!
Would you also care to post the Bond management’s directorships and interests in IAC (Global Aviation Solutions), when they were resigned and why?
I believe there were inherent problems with the “Global Programme” prior to my course commencing and the company line was to take the money now and deal with the fallout later.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Ngenfire
Last edited by Ngenfire; 8th Sep 2005 at 11:37.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Astraeus b-737 + 100h
Hye people,
next year I will be finishing my training and I am already thinking what to do next. As I have been surfing the net for a long time and see that there are not many options to get a job for a low-timer like me, not to say anyone, I have been thinking about getting a type rating.
The best option that I have seen so far is the one that offers Astraeus with 100h on the 737. Although I read several posts of some of you on the web talking about it, I would like to get in contact with people who undertook their training directly.
Some talk about 80% of success after undertaking the b-737 type rating + 100h line training, and others say all the opposite. I do not know who says the truth and would love to know more about it. Let's discuss it, I welcome all opinions!
Thanks in advance.
next year I will be finishing my training and I am already thinking what to do next. As I have been surfing the net for a long time and see that there are not many options to get a job for a low-timer like me, not to say anyone, I have been thinking about getting a type rating.
The best option that I have seen so far is the one that offers Astraeus with 100h on the 737. Although I read several posts of some of you on the web talking about it, I would like to get in contact with people who undertook their training directly.
Some talk about 80% of success after undertaking the b-737 type rating + 100h line training, and others say all the opposite. I do not know who says the truth and would love to know more about it. Let's discuss it, I welcome all opinions!
Thanks in advance.
PPRuNe Knight in Shining Armour
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Everywhere in the UK, but not home!
Posts: 503
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe The Mole was another guy who didn't get any of the promised feedback, after the pprune cadet selection weekend in January.
Hamrah, the thing that appealed to me about the day as I drove home was that it might be a little different, you know, chances of getting the job no better than anyone else, but a good chance of learning a little about how to do selection/interview better! Sadly your promises were seemingly impossible to fulfil! I emailed requesting a copy of the technical questionnaire so that I could do a little homework, I'm sure Tony has a "Word Doc" copy, but I had no response!
Fortunately for me I had other irons in the fire, which lead to a job, but I still want to learn what I didn't do right.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: southend on sea essex
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
astraeus
i did the astraeus assesment. you do a psyco paper, technical exam, shapes identification, and a mathematical reasoning. you also do a sim ride and have an interview which is set out rather well but i dont see that the results are full proof as i have a friend who failed the asses but the next week passed a ba one!!!!! who knows. i managed a high grade but i dont fancy 26k for type and line training for them to turn around and say, yes we would love to give you a job, if we had any going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: EGKK
Age: 42
Posts: 599
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was led to believe the assessment wasn't a Pass / Fail excercise and that Astraeus simply commented on your suitability to continue on and do a jet type rating, but didn't actually tell you to do one or prevent you from doing one, if you see what I mean?
Am I misinformed?
Am I misinformed?
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Location Location
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hamrah,
to enlarge on my earlier statement, I think that topslide6 has said everything I want to say on his/her 16 september posting. Great company/ great people/ great training and a terrific result for people who got in early and got jobs. But the original thread was asking for info on the type rating process and I think it is important for the paying public to understand the implications of spending a lot of money and to make an informed choice. if you think otherwise, or can get the job 'conveyor' running again then good luck.
And yes I know there are no guarantees etc etc etc
to enlarge on my earlier statement, I think that topslide6 has said everything I want to say on his/her 16 september posting. Great company/ great people/ great training and a terrific result for people who got in early and got jobs. But the original thread was asking for info on the type rating process and I think it is important for the paying public to understand the implications of spending a lot of money and to make an informed choice. if you think otherwise, or can get the job 'conveyor' running again then good luck.
And yes I know there are no guarantees etc etc etc
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
Why are Astraeus advertising for experienced B737 / 757 FO's?
Just spotted this on www.climbto350.com
http://www.climbto350.com/job_search...52&action=next
Yes I know you can't see the advertisers details unless you're a member but I'll save you all the trouble of spending $US50 and tell you that it's Astraeus.
My question is why? One gets the overwhelming impression from these pages that there are people queueing up to buy type ratings and line training from them?
Surely if you've got a bunch of people standing around who've already paid for the privilege of a type rating and a bunch of line flying in accordance with the Astraeus SOP's, what's the economic sense of taking on someone from outside and training them up at your expense
Not having a go at Astraeus here just genuinely a bit surprised that's all, that a company that has a sideline selling type ratings and RHS time, also wants to advertise for drivers, what gives? Is the market for 737 pilots getting that tight?
Logical answer would be that everyone who has gone through the Astraeus thing in recent months has now found work elsewhere and that's wonderful if it's true, great advertising for Astraeus and I'd love to have it confirmed from one of the PPRUNE / Astraeus management types
On the other hand, are there any people out there who've done the Astraeus scheme recently and are now unemployed, have you got any comments to make about this?
http://www.climbto350.com/job_search...52&action=next
Yes I know you can't see the advertisers details unless you're a member but I'll save you all the trouble of spending $US50 and tell you that it's Astraeus.
My question is why? One gets the overwhelming impression from these pages that there are people queueing up to buy type ratings and line training from them?
Surely if you've got a bunch of people standing around who've already paid for the privilege of a type rating and a bunch of line flying in accordance with the Astraeus SOP's, what's the economic sense of taking on someone from outside and training them up at your expense
Not having a go at Astraeus here just genuinely a bit surprised that's all, that a company that has a sideline selling type ratings and RHS time, also wants to advertise for drivers, what gives? Is the market for 737 pilots getting that tight?
Logical answer would be that everyone who has gone through the Astraeus thing in recent months has now found work elsewhere and that's wonderful if it's true, great advertising for Astraeus and I'd love to have it confirmed from one of the PPRUNE / Astraeus management types
On the other hand, are there any people out there who've done the Astraeus scheme recently and are now unemployed, have you got any comments to make about this?
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: England
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All the other short/mid haul companies do it, so why not AEU?
They're a good, expanding outfit and can give you quality hours in an established setup.
Maybe they've realised that their projected command demographic leaves them short of experienced drivers (like everyone else).
I'm not on the payroll and it's just a theory.
Charlie Nov.
They're a good, expanding outfit and can give you quality hours in an established setup.
Maybe they've realised that their projected command demographic leaves them short of experienced drivers (like everyone else).
I'm not on the payroll and it's just a theory.
Charlie Nov.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wor Yerm
Age: 68
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fortunately, you can't purchase real experience, you have to have to spend time actually doing the job. For once, it looks like we may have a mini boom for the experienced drivers which means that those further down will have more opportunities to get their feet under the dashboard.