The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.
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Clearly you are part of the Labour party voting do as I say, not as I do brigade BigJarv, given only a couple of years ago you were saying the following about CTC:
And having a pop at me about my consistency and reiteration of the same point is rich coming from someone who has made an excessive amount of posts proclaiming 'get a head for the sky'.
You are giving your advice, I am giving mine. Accept it.
Lesgonard:
So you must be bored of BigJarv too then. And stop using big words, you clearly don't understand the meaning of the word to describe my advice Vitriolic? You little flower. Open your eyes. Wake up. Don't dare go near the real world will you.
Exactly Air_One and that is one of the points. And it is nearer £1300 at the low interest rates.
Exactly. And my opinion, though it is only my opinion, is that if they do not place new pilots (not FlexiCrew guys and girls) by April 2010, this company will be in dire trouble. I'd strongly recommend holding fire to any potential trainee and waiting and seeing what happens around that time. It may be great news. It probably wont be. There is quite a long term to your commitment to the company, and, just like being an airline pilot, you are going to need to think well ahead of the 'aircraft'. Is this company really going to be around in 2 years time? Really? Talk is cheap. Let's see some action shall we.
Why am I saying this? Because they have chosen to market their fantastic past employment records and use them to hook new customers in. They perhaps do not guarantee anything. They do however 'heavily imply' it in the words of our friend Dave. Sure if it was £50 or even £4000 I wouldn't be bothered to write on here. But it is smart, ambitious peoples futures and large sums of money which, in the most part, are secured against families homes. The potential and unfortunately probable consequences don't bare thinking about. Let's see who feels vitriolic then shall we?
I'll second Portsides comment, listen to Zippy Monster if you want a less Vitriolic tone to things. And cheers Rollerboy.
I've given up on CTC. Went to the BALPA Employment Oppertunities Conference and although I hate to be doom and gloom, the general message was that recruitment across the board was going to be very flat this year
(2008) in the UK but expect it to pick up the year after. Not good news as far as hold pool is concerned and think CTC are going to get a hammering on their reputation for bad judgement. May well be deserved. No longer can they say that "we are so reliable and trustworthy that even after 9/11 the longest one of our cadets waited was 9 months" (I was told this!). They had all our trust but it's fading. Great shame really as I though it was one of the only companies out there I respected for trying to change the game for the benefit of us pilot types.
(2008) in the UK but expect it to pick up the year after. Not good news as far as hold pool is concerned and think CTC are going to get a hammering on their reputation for bad judgement. May well be deserved. No longer can they say that "we are so reliable and trustworthy that even after 9/11 the longest one of our cadets waited was 9 months" (I was told this!). They had all our trust but it's fading. Great shame really as I though it was one of the only companies out there I respected for trying to change the game for the benefit of us pilot types.
You are giving your advice, I am giving mine. Accept it.
Lesgonard:
just the repetitive and verbose manner
If I was spending 100K I would want all the facts on which to base my decision !?
Repaying £1000 a month for the next 10 years is a big commitment !
Repaying £1000 a month for the next 10 years is a big commitment !
What if CTC closed up shop now?
Why am I saying this? Because they have chosen to market their fantastic past employment records and use them to hook new customers in. They perhaps do not guarantee anything. They do however 'heavily imply' it in the words of our friend Dave. Sure if it was £50 or even £4000 I wouldn't be bothered to write on here. But it is smart, ambitious peoples futures and large sums of money which, in the most part, are secured against families homes. The potential and unfortunately probable consequences don't bare thinking about. Let's see who feels vitriolic then shall we?
I'll second Portsides comment, listen to Zippy Monster if you want a less Vitriolic tone to things. And cheers Rollerboy.
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If you want to pass CTC, the best book I have found that seems to be directly based on CTC's selection process and is an absolutely excellent read for any interview is Get a Head for the Sky. It was recommended to me and I am entitled to recommend it to everyone else because it is the most helpful aid to passing CTC's selection bar none. That is my honest opinion which I totally stand by. Almost as helpful as this thread used to be before it was hijacked! That is why I put it on here.
I went through CTC a while back and had nothing but praise for them. Great outfit. On completing the AQC however I sat in a hold pool for over a year. Bad timing as the industry was slow. Luckily I was instructing at the time (which incidentally I highly recommend) so still flying and keeping current and keeping body and soul together. Also did a bit or arial photography. I was becoming disillusioned with CTC as the pool was huge and whilst CTC were completely honest they were not keeping us as informed as perhaps they could. Waiting for something to happen is very frustrating. I got offered a job elsewhere because of my experience and contacts from instructing. I accepted. In the next 4 weeks almost the whole hold pool emptied to Easy and Thomas Cook I think. That showed me!! All my buddies I did my course with are still happily employed by Easy. Did I make the right choice not remaining with CTC? Who knows. I do know I am very very happy where I am.
That was my story so I hope you now understand my comments. I was wrong about CTC thou. They did eventually come through and place everyone in the pool.
Beak I don't want to bicker with you at all so lets not get into the quotes of each other, its so very childish (although I'm impressed you have research my posts). I think you are right believe it or not. I would not like to be at the back of the Q in a hold pool right now which is where going to CTC will get you. Certainly I would hold off until the hold pool has emptied out a bit. However if you have the money and don't mind waiting then go for it. I also agree that if you must fly, maybe instructing may be a better idea but even those jobs are hard to come by right now which says something. Maybe go modular so you can just do a bit here and there. Thats my advice which isn't too dissimilar to yours.
If people want to do it thou, having read your mass of opinions which you have very kindly shared over the last 6 months, then let them get on with it and find out the information they have come on here to find which I expect is advice on CTC. I know you won't give up because that would be accepting defeat and you just don't seem able to stop yourself. I guess you really feel you are helping.
Tonight I flew back from Dusseldorf to the UK and we fly over London. From overhead near Amsterdam I could see London's lights with the most amazing sunset. Flew right over the top of London at 28000ft and it's about the best I've ever seen it. Was stunning. So clear and beautiful. Moments like that make our job better than anyone else's in my opinion. I absolutely love it and I'm very privileged to do it. I can't blame anyone for being keen to get involved. It's brilliant!
I went through CTC a while back and had nothing but praise for them. Great outfit. On completing the AQC however I sat in a hold pool for over a year. Bad timing as the industry was slow. Luckily I was instructing at the time (which incidentally I highly recommend) so still flying and keeping current and keeping body and soul together. Also did a bit or arial photography. I was becoming disillusioned with CTC as the pool was huge and whilst CTC were completely honest they were not keeping us as informed as perhaps they could. Waiting for something to happen is very frustrating. I got offered a job elsewhere because of my experience and contacts from instructing. I accepted. In the next 4 weeks almost the whole hold pool emptied to Easy and Thomas Cook I think. That showed me!! All my buddies I did my course with are still happily employed by Easy. Did I make the right choice not remaining with CTC? Who knows. I do know I am very very happy where I am.
That was my story so I hope you now understand my comments. I was wrong about CTC thou. They did eventually come through and place everyone in the pool.
Beak I don't want to bicker with you at all so lets not get into the quotes of each other, its so very childish (although I'm impressed you have research my posts). I think you are right believe it or not. I would not like to be at the back of the Q in a hold pool right now which is where going to CTC will get you. Certainly I would hold off until the hold pool has emptied out a bit. However if you have the money and don't mind waiting then go for it. I also agree that if you must fly, maybe instructing may be a better idea but even those jobs are hard to come by right now which says something. Maybe go modular so you can just do a bit here and there. Thats my advice which isn't too dissimilar to yours.
If people want to do it thou, having read your mass of opinions which you have very kindly shared over the last 6 months, then let them get on with it and find out the information they have come on here to find which I expect is advice on CTC. I know you won't give up because that would be accepting defeat and you just don't seem able to stop yourself. I guess you really feel you are helping.
Tonight I flew back from Dusseldorf to the UK and we fly over London. From overhead near Amsterdam I could see London's lights with the most amazing sunset. Flew right over the top of London at 28000ft and it's about the best I've ever seen it. Was stunning. So clear and beautiful. Moments like that make our job better than anyone else's in my opinion. I absolutely love it and I'm very privileged to do it. I can't blame anyone for being keen to get involved. It's brilliant!
Last edited by bigjarv; 8th Sep 2009 at 21:59.
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And stop using big words
thebeak, why the disapprobation? I've to stop using words you don't understand yet I'm not ready for the real world... Which is it mate? I don't understand why you're demanding that people stay clear of CTC when it was Oxford that landed you in the position you're in now. For all you know potential cadets are reading this in the hope of applying in two years time. They must be sick of reading the same thing over and over again. "Don't train now, train modular and do it slowly for the upturn." Noted!!!!
bigjarv. Glad everything came right for you eventually. Great to hear a success story in these times.
thebeak, why the disapprobation? I've to stop using words you don't understand yet I'm not ready for the real world... Which is it mate? I don't understand why you're demanding that people stay clear of CTC when it was Oxford that landed you in the position you're in now. For all you know potential cadets are reading this in the hope of applying in two years time. They must be sick of reading the same thing over and over again. "Don't train now, train modular and do it slowly for the upturn." Noted!!!!
bigjarv. Glad everything came right for you eventually. Great to hear a success story in these times.
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Hi everyone.
I started CTC Oct 06 and was put on CP41, now I’m permanent with Thomas Cook. Personally I cannot complain about CTC they did exactly what it says on the tin. However I can appreciate why people do and I appreciate that I have been incredibly lucky to get a permanent contract.
I know it’s easy for me to say but if I hadn't started my training yet I would probably want to wait for a few years. Even if you start training now and the industry has recovered by the time you finish you will still be waiting behind a massive holding pool. Quite a few people from CP41 still haven't got permanent contracts and there is nothing on the horizon. However, I know someone who is cabin crew for our airline and is currently undergoing modular training but because they have been with the company for a long time and have got to know a lot of the captains and management they are in a great position should anything arise.
Apologies if I’m preaching something that has already been said.
I started CTC Oct 06 and was put on CP41, now I’m permanent with Thomas Cook. Personally I cannot complain about CTC they did exactly what it says on the tin. However I can appreciate why people do and I appreciate that I have been incredibly lucky to get a permanent contract.
I know it’s easy for me to say but if I hadn't started my training yet I would probably want to wait for a few years. Even if you start training now and the industry has recovered by the time you finish you will still be waiting behind a massive holding pool. Quite a few people from CP41 still haven't got permanent contracts and there is nothing on the horizon. However, I know someone who is cabin crew for our airline and is currently undergoing modular training but because they have been with the company for a long time and have got to know a lot of the captains and management they are in a great position should anything arise.
Apologies if I’m preaching something that has already been said.
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Grow up guys
Everyone knows that employment prospects are weak at the moment and we don't need to go into the reasons for that they are clearly understood.
Do your research and make your own mind up about whether to (try to) enter training and bear in mind that you will not be looking for a job for about 24 months when employment prospects will have changed. My best guess is improved greatly.
When demand for Pilots comes back it will do so with a bang, history tells us that this is the most likely scenario, and the hold pools, lists & data bases will be used up quickly.
Ask yourselves which Pilot training school will be preferred. The one with best reputation for higher quality graduates will be first port of call.
Which one is that? Well CTC has the best rep and has never, as far as I am aware, failed to place a graduated trainee with an airline although there may be an understandable wait.
If I were doing it all over again I would do it with CTC, if they would have me, and I wouldn't hesitate to do it now.
Do your research and make your own mind up about whether to (try to) enter training and bear in mind that you will not be looking for a job for about 24 months when employment prospects will have changed. My best guess is improved greatly.
When demand for Pilots comes back it will do so with a bang, history tells us that this is the most likely scenario, and the hold pools, lists & data bases will be used up quickly.
Ask yourselves which Pilot training school will be preferred. The one with best reputation for higher quality graduates will be first port of call.
Which one is that? Well CTC has the best rep and has never, as far as I am aware, failed to place a graduated trainee with an airline although there may be an understandable wait.
If I were doing it all over again I would do it with CTC, if they would have me, and I wouldn't hesitate to do it now.
More to the point, what was the purpose of that post Gertie? Nothing's been said on the subject for a week, then you pop up with that.
My opinion - I disagree that we will see anything like the hiring boom we did in 2005-6 etc again. I believe it will come back with more of a steady flow than a bang, and the order in which people are taken will be as jb5000 said a couple of pages back. Post 3469, if you're interested.
My opinion - I disagree that we will see anything like the hiring boom we did in 2005-6 etc again. I believe it will come back with more of a steady flow than a bang, and the order in which people are taken will be as jb5000 said a couple of pages back. Post 3469, if you're interested.
You see Gertie my best guess, and I've made a few, is that 2 years from now will be the nadir for pilot employment. It is this winter and next that I expect to see major failures and contractions but in the UK and the much wider JAA community.
A guess is a guess. But mine is based on a full assessment of past history - is yours?
WWW
A guess is a guess. But mine is based on a full assessment of past history - is yours?
WWW
I also had to look up what nadir meant and was not very happy when I learnt. 2011 is now the low point, when possibly can we hope to be hoovered up from this hold pool?
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Grow up guys
Air Wolf - At my age. You must be joking!
Zippy Monster - Just stumbled across the thread and, having an (educated?) view, thought I would express my opinion as many have done before me.
WWW - Let's wait and see. I hope you are wrong.
One post only - Using tricky words only makes it sound intelligent!
Mint flavour - Couldn't find out either the size of the Cadet hold pool or the ATP data base sorry. But surely the numbers don't mean much as they don't provide you with any info as to how long you would have to wait which is the key issue. I just think, as I said before, I'd rather be on a CTC list than anywhere else.
I think I'll go now!
GV
Zippy Monster - Just stumbled across the thread and, having an (educated?) view, thought I would express my opinion as many have done before me.
WWW - Let's wait and see. I hope you are wrong.
One post only - Using tricky words only makes it sound intelligent!
Mint flavour - Couldn't find out either the size of the Cadet hold pool or the ATP data base sorry. But surely the numbers don't mean much as they don't provide you with any info as to how long you would have to wait which is the key issue. I just think, as I said before, I'd rather be on a CTC list than anywhere else.
I think I'll go now!
GV
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Gertie - you're entitled to your say as much as the next person!
As for the hold pool, I believe it's knocking on for 100 now. CTC estimate there will be roughly 50-80 IR renewals to be done. That was as of a couple of months ago, don't know if the figure for IR renewals has changed.
As for the hold pool, I believe it's knocking on for 100 now. CTC estimate there will be roughly 50-80 IR renewals to be done. That was as of a couple of months ago, don't know if the figure for IR renewals has changed.
Presumably this number is just those who have yet to begin their type rating, and doesn't include those who are being returned to CTC by their respective airlines this winter? I'm thinking specifically of the TCX cadets and those at on FlexiCrew at EZY not being offered sporadic flying over the winter.
If so, that number can be considered to be a bit higher.
If so, that number can be considered to be a bit higher.
