Surly Bonds Broken

Wirefly ... don't be mean, add those of us on CP71 as well !

cc2180

Im still trying to work out if the Flexicrew system is a good sign for the cadet/hold pool/company prospects or not.

Any insight?

With EZY not offering permament jobs to their graduates, and apparent unhappiness with the standard of them (which may be an excuse for the 6 month dumping), recruitment contract up for renewal next summer etc, whats happening with ctc at the moment?

Dunno what's rumour and what's truth. Still safe to start training with them?

bjkeates

I can tell you now, quite categorically, that that is not the case.

Sagey

I think you are the confusing the standard of CTC Wings cadets and ATP cadets with those of the standard of ATP self funded type rating people (nothing to do with CTC). easy and ATP have apparently mutually parted company. There is lots about it in the easyJet holdpool thread on the Terms forum.

Josephine24

Hi there, I am going out on CP72 too!! Although, as the trend seems to be, if I can raise the bond!

no sponsor

The flexi system by CTC should make you think very hard about becoming an airline pilot. Sadly, it is another nail in long term prospects of good terms and conditions. It means that an airline will employ you for 6 months, or whenever their high peak season is, and give you an unpaid period of leave until the next peak season. Unless you can rotate with another airline whose high peak is exactly the opposite, in which case will probably require you to travel to another continent, subject to employment laws, you will be on a very poor annual salary - don't burn your bridges with Tescos when you leave the shelf-stacking job, since you'll need to go back there for the winter.

Grass strip basher

This Flexi scheme is a horrifying precendent.... I am surprised there has not been more said about it.

PAJ

It should be noted that FlexiCrew is not compulsary for cadets! CTC is still linked with the same partner airlines, however the industry is going to have to react to the downturn. Christmas at the moment is creating a very artificial situation as people are still spending, however once 2009 kicks in we will truly see how deep we are in and how far this recession will sink. People are still going to fly, but will not fly any where near as regularly. A peak/ trough situation exists for many carriers around the world so what FlexiCrew is designed to do is offer a solution that means that airlines don't have to have a load of pilots on their books who they cant fly often in the low season, but still have to pay. I agree that what we all want is for things to go back to how they were 2-3 years ago with plenty of opportunities out there, but the market is not the same anymore and will not recover for a couple of years at least. FlexiCrew might be what it takes to keep airlines taking on people at the moment - what that means for guys in the holdpool and those coming towards the end of training is an opportunity to get a type rating on the licence and to keep their hours ticking over. Fair enough you may be chopping and changin jobs every 6 months or so for a while, having to move away from family for months at a time, but on the upturn, you could find yourself with an unfrozen ATPL, a couple of thousand hours on type and a good way into a legend carrier as DEP, and the salary that comes with that. The alternative might be to sit around stacking shelves at Tesco on minimum wage, deferring the loan repayments and acruing interest and waiting for a carrier willing to commit to a full term contract. I would much rather do something full time with one of the partner airlines but with things as they are I am definitely interested to hear more personally. (But on a positive note, EZ have apparently commited to taking 22 new CTC guys early next year to get their line training)

hoody_mcboob

"Legend carrier"....where do i sign!

BitMoreRightRudder

True, but they haven't committed to taking back the 22 guys they just let go. According to ezy Balpa reps, the guys who were let go will be offered this flexi-crew thing, at best. So what do you think is going to happen to the new batch of cadets going through the type rating courses at the moment after their 6 month free labour period is over?

CTC come out with this c**p and tell cadets that they hope they find it "exciting and innovative".

I'm sorry - bullst

Who is going to find working as a 6 month contract pilot, most likely without pay if you go to ezy, exciting or innovative?

PAJ

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying this is perfect by any means - after 6 months guys might be out of work again. But I can't help but feel that having say 700 TT with 450 hrs on type (or whatever you might get) is a better position to be in. I'm sure that the OAA/FTE/Cabair guys are not getting to add that to their cv's without paying airlines for the TR and line experience. It's hard to know what should be done. Bottom line is that airlines dont want to pay so much for flight crew, so either we let the industry absorb newbies in line with current crewing requirements against new routes and turnover or do something else like FlexiCrew to get that first job. But as you say, BALPA have come back and said those CTC guys let go by EZ will basically only be able to come back as FlexiCrew. Not ideal at all, but times seem to be getting more desperate each week, and flying is flying.

bjkeates

Believe me, it makes little difference. The ones that actually bother to reply to you - and in my experience that would be 5-10% - aren't interested.

BitMoreRightRudder

I know times are hard PAJ, but that doesn't excuse CTC and particularly ezy collaborating to exploit cadets currently in the system. All this propoganda that CTC spew out really 's me off - if there are no jobs out there for the time being then they should just admit that and keep cadets informed.

Allowing ezy to specify temporary contracts with no pay when taking on cadets' is criminal behaviour. Either ezy takes on you guys with a 100% intention to offer permanent contracts or they take no-one at all. A fully qualified, graduated CTC cadet is an airline pilot, not an office temp who can be shoved around without thought or explanation.

I get a bit hot under the collar about this but it is pretty galling to see a good group of lads arrive into the crewroom at my base having followed the same route I took into airline flying, and then see them get screwed over simply because easyJet decide free pilots is a fancy cost cutting measure, and CTC stand around and roll out the "innovation" turd they love to bang on about.

Flexi-Crew?

Tell them to Flexi off.

Fair_Weather_Flyer

I think the flexi crew thing will go when the recession ends....however long that will be. I remember after 9/11 a few airlines decided that they would lay crews off over winter and rehire them over summer. A good money saver for them until things started to pick up and the guys started to get permanent jobs elsewhere.

Aerospace101

atleast there are some airlines with backbone regarding recruitment/bonds etc such as flybe and BA. they wont touch 'flexipilots' with a bargepole.

i hope flexicrew is a failure. Either that or its gona be a failure for future wannabe generations.

to all those who say flexi is better than nothing - what ever happened to being able to Make a living as an airline pilot??

wirefly84

No problem ur all invited lol.

bjkeates

I actually think FlexiCrew will be here to stay. Suppose the industry picks up in a few years time and cadets start to be taken into airlines through the 'normal' CTC route - remember, that will only affect cadets. CTC are marketing FlexiCrew at type-rated pilots; in effect, it is will become another contractor like Parc or Rishworth, for whom there will always be a market. The recession will not be for ever and oil will not be down at $40/barrel for long (how long until the next massive speculation bubble when the economy picks up?) Airlines will always be looking to cut costs and look at routes such as this. If it offers cadets further options, so much the better.

I do hope this doesn't become the norm though and that despite what has happened with the cadets at EZY and MON this winter, that more partner airlines are not tempted to go down this FlexiCrew route and the traditional cadet avenues remain open as cadets have been assured. CTC can only do what the airlines want them to do, but it would be a worrying scenario, not least for those just starting out on the course.

PS. Wirefly - this isn't a text message forum, any chance you could write in standard English?

Streety

That's the trouble with the yoof of today, eh Keatsey?

Bambe

Working as a pilot only 6 months a year means plenty of time to do something else... I've met so many pilot who after 10-15 years are bored of flying and mainly enjoy the job for the income...

We'll be pilot for the spring and summer time, then we'll have another job for the rest of the year awaiting for the next season.. So that we'll never get bored.
Well that's my point of view.

If some of you are in CP71, let me know, would be cool to meet before the meet and great day.
By

jb5000

What job are you going to do in the winter that will cover £1,200+ loan repayments?

Christmas postman doesn't quite cut it.