The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.
Join Date: Jun 2008
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It's good to see a couple of current wings cadets on here. Would either of you (chelce or kerosine), or anyone else who's involved with CTC, be able to shed some light on what the latest is with people who are finishing the course at the moment?
The last I heard was that Easyjet & Monarch had taken some cadets on for their TR/line training period and then dropped them back into the pool. Since then, I've heard not a squeak. Do these people account for their entire course and, if not, what's happened to the others?
I presume another course must have graduated since? What's happened to these graduates? Have any of them got jobs? If not, when things pick up, will the partner airlines take these people before those who graduate after them?
And what, if anything, are CTC going to do to help those who may not get jobs for two years remain current and employable?
Finally, are the partner airlines still taking graduates on for their initial six months and, if so, is this all of them or just a few?
I've got through the selection process, I've got my medical, and I've got my finance sorted. I'm meant to be flying to New Zealand in the spring. I'm really keen to do this and I'm at just the right point in my life to train. I certainly don't want to turn my place down considering what I've been through to get it, but I am truly terrified that I will come out in late 2010/early 2011 and will not only fail to get a job then (I'm not naive - this seems almost inevitable) but will fail to get a job EVER because my skills will rust to the point that I"m unable to pass a sim assessment.
And all I've got to base this decision on (which is probably the hardest I've ever had to make) is speculation about when things will improve and CTC's (fairly meaningless) statistic of a 100% employment rate. Put it this way: if I knew that I'd have to wait 2 years after graduating to get a flying job, I'd still do my training now. But if it's likely that such a job won't ever materialise then I won't. It seems that what CTC and their partner airlines are doing for their unemployed cadets has the potential to make a difference between these two scenarios. So what are they doing? Does anyone know?
The last I heard was that Easyjet & Monarch had taken some cadets on for their TR/line training period and then dropped them back into the pool. Since then, I've heard not a squeak. Do these people account for their entire course and, if not, what's happened to the others?
I presume another course must have graduated since? What's happened to these graduates? Have any of them got jobs? If not, when things pick up, will the partner airlines take these people before those who graduate after them?
And what, if anything, are CTC going to do to help those who may not get jobs for two years remain current and employable?
Finally, are the partner airlines still taking graduates on for their initial six months and, if so, is this all of them or just a few?
I've got through the selection process, I've got my medical, and I've got my finance sorted. I'm meant to be flying to New Zealand in the spring. I'm really keen to do this and I'm at just the right point in my life to train. I certainly don't want to turn my place down considering what I've been through to get it, but I am truly terrified that I will come out in late 2010/early 2011 and will not only fail to get a job then (I'm not naive - this seems almost inevitable) but will fail to get a job EVER because my skills will rust to the point that I"m unable to pass a sim assessment.
And all I've got to base this decision on (which is probably the hardest I've ever had to make) is speculation about when things will improve and CTC's (fairly meaningless) statistic of a 100% employment rate. Put it this way: if I knew that I'd have to wait 2 years after graduating to get a flying job, I'd still do my training now. But if it's likely that such a job won't ever materialise then I won't. It seems that what CTC and their partner airlines are doing for their unemployed cadets has the potential to make a difference between these two scenarios. So what are they doing? Does anyone know?
Join Date: Apr 2008
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How It Is
mrfilbert, the current situation is this. The cadets with EJ and Monarch are coming to the end of their line training period, my friend has 3 line flights left with EJ. I happen to know that BALPA and CTC are doing everything they can to help these cadets with their situation.
Cadets have graduated since (I am one of them) and are currently in CTC's famed hold pool. As far as jobs go EJ have requested people onto the 737 in Jan, Feb and March. Cadets get employed on a CP by CP basis, i.e. CP1 has priority over CP2 has priority over CP3.
As far as currency is concerned CTC have given cadets refresher Sims to keep their skills current. It is in their interest as what good is a whole bunch of cadets with lapsed licences to them.
The FACT is that the airline industry is cyclical, it has peaks and troughs, always has and always will. If I were you I would go full throttle into your training because I guarantee that by the time you finish the industry will have picked up and once more fallen off and picked up and fallen off etc. etc. etc. The airlines are going to start finding it easier since the oil price has dropped so significantly and passenger yields are still high.
I appreciate how hard the decision is to make but trust me, I know from experience that the training will be the best thing you ever do.
Cadets have graduated since (I am one of them) and are currently in CTC's famed hold pool. As far as jobs go EJ have requested people onto the 737 in Jan, Feb and March. Cadets get employed on a CP by CP basis, i.e. CP1 has priority over CP2 has priority over CP3.
As far as currency is concerned CTC have given cadets refresher Sims to keep their skills current. It is in their interest as what good is a whole bunch of cadets with lapsed licences to them.
The FACT is that the airline industry is cyclical, it has peaks and troughs, always has and always will. If I were you I would go full throttle into your training because I guarantee that by the time you finish the industry will have picked up and once more fallen off and picked up and fallen off etc. etc. etc. The airlines are going to start finding it easier since the oil price has dropped so significantly and passenger yields are still high.
I appreciate how hard the decision is to make but trust me, I know from experience that the training will be the best thing you ever do.
Last edited by DME Dave; 20th Nov 2008 at 11:49.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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ctctim, my selection was in October and I was going to be starting in April but they rang up and asked if I wanted to start in December, so I couldn't see why not. I live in Hamilton so I will just be staying at home. It's a lot cheaper than anywhere else! Are you staying at clearways?
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yeah i was starting in feb but tthey changed it so was so happy, nah clearways full was gutted bout that but just at knox street so it allgee! you done much flying before?
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Cadets
Hi am new on this thread i would like to say thank you for all the information and help given it is greatly appriciated. Next december i will be having my phase 2 tests are they going to be similar as described in the first few pages as sometimes i get a bit worried on what they might ask!! Thank you all for all your help in advance and hope to meet some of ya guys 
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I haven't done that much flying before (just enough to know that it's what I want to do). I have been in one of CTC's Robin 2160's which was really fun. I hear that it is better to have not much experience because they want to train you their way. How about you?
If I were you I would go full throttle into your training because I guarantee that by the time you finish the industry will have picked up and once more fallen off and picked up and fallen off etc.
You really advise this?
You really think that 14 months from now the industry will have 'picked up'?
I only expect 2009 to bring net contraction in the airline business. Quite severe and sharp contraction in the G8 countries and all of the EU (JAA license holders this means you). Clearing up the aftermath will take a couple of years starting in 2010 even if growth returns strongly that year. Which it certainly will not.
WWW
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WWW, (The fish who took the bait)
Firstly it will be 24 months from now that he finishes the training, and secondly yes I do believe the employment market will have 'picked up' in this time when compared to the current climate.
I personally am not in the business of discouraging others from following their ambitions, and even ambitions mixed with a harsh reality will still be achieved providing an individual is sensible. And before you say it, yes I do believe that starting your training in the very near future is sensible.
I will not be provoked into some petty argument, I'm not qualified to give financial and ecomomic advice (and I wasn't) and niether are you. This is a thread of constructive sharing and solution finding. A negative attitude will get somebody nowhere, yes there are generally always negatives and they must be considered but it's the attitude of what can I do to overcome this, that will find a person in good stead.
That is all I'm going to say on the matter because that's all that needs to said. Have a nice day
Firstly it will be 24 months from now that he finishes the training, and secondly yes I do believe the employment market will have 'picked up' in this time when compared to the current climate.
I personally am not in the business of discouraging others from following their ambitions, and even ambitions mixed with a harsh reality will still be achieved providing an individual is sensible. And before you say it, yes I do believe that starting your training in the very near future is sensible.
I will not be provoked into some petty argument, I'm not qualified to give financial and ecomomic advice (and I wasn't) and niether are you. This is a thread of constructive sharing and solution finding. A negative attitude will get somebody nowhere, yes there are generally always negatives and they must be considered but it's the attitude of what can I do to overcome this, that will find a person in good stead.
That is all I'm going to say on the matter because that's all that needs to said. Have a nice day
Last edited by DME Dave; 21st Nov 2008 at 12:16.
Join Date: May 2008
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Hello everyone.
I am also waiting to make my reapplication for the team-work exercise of the stage 3.
I am Spanish, and since I failed my application because my English level I came to work and live to UK for myself to improve it before next reapplication.
Now, when the 6 months for the reapplication are finished, the unsecured loans are not able any more and for me this was the unique way to found the course.
I was wondering if someone pass all the selection process and CTC Wings give him a contract or something, with an explanation of the cadet program itself in it and so on, may be possible to get this loan if the cadet goes to the HSBC or another bank by himself and shows this contract to the bank, to prove that he may be get a job after finish the course?
Good flights.
I am also waiting to make my reapplication for the team-work exercise of the stage 3.
I am Spanish, and since I failed my application because my English level I came to work and live to UK for myself to improve it before next reapplication.
Now, when the 6 months for the reapplication are finished, the unsecured loans are not able any more and for me this was the unique way to found the course.
I was wondering if someone pass all the selection process and CTC Wings give him a contract or something, with an explanation of the cadet program itself in it and so on, may be possible to get this loan if the cadet goes to the HSBC or another bank by himself and shows this contract to the bank, to prove that he may be get a job after finish the course?
Good flights.
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No you can't. The HSBC professional studies loan has stopped for now. Any loan you get will most probably be secured and won't be different to your average loan.
Best to check with CTC though.
Best to check with CTC though.
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Thank you for the answer.
I've already talk with them and they answer that I can be ellegible only if I can afford the funding by myself.
This is really dissapointing and I have very litte more that I can do. The hopes are dying now and even I feel like still here in UK is pointless for me and the life here without that hope is becoming harder and harder everyday.
Actually, if I didn't leave my job and live in Spain now I would be able to get a loan there, but now it's too late.
I bet for this with all my strengh and that was too much hehe.
Well... good luck to all the people who can afford that £75k!
I've already talk with them and they answer that I can be ellegible only if I can afford the funding by myself.
This is really dissapointing and I have very litte more that I can do. The hopes are dying now and even I feel like still here in UK is pointless for me and the life here without that hope is becoming harder and harder everyday.
Actually, if I didn't leave my job and live in Spain now I would be able to get a loan there, but now it's too late.
I bet for this with all my strengh and that was too much hehe.
Well... good luck to all the people who can afford that £75k!
No Dave. What needs to be said is that I believe CTC have over 150 cadets either paddling in the pool or under training for whom the prospect of an airline job in 2009 is a remote one. I know of one who was recently let go by a UK airline who is applying to Boots the chemist this week for a job stacking shelves. He plans to use bankruptcy (baring a miracle) to release himself from the £90k of debt he now cannot hope to manage.
Being realistic about a negative situation is not being negative oneself. Its being realistic.
You have to hope that things are going to pick up within two years as you are already in the pool. However there isn't a shed of evidence to support that hope.
It may be that some airlines actually want to take low houred cadets willing to sign contracts on very low net pay. IF they can find a way to encourage highly paid SFO's to leave and replace them with cadets on a new recession-era cadet pay scale then there may be some reasonable job opportunities for those with 200hrs. We shall have to see.
Bottom line, only a tiny fraction of Wannabes ever read these pages and only a small minority ever pay any heed to my opinion. The schools are full still and I can't imagine a bleaker more off-putting picture than right now so until the oil actually runs out...
WWW
Being realistic about a negative situation is not being negative oneself. Its being realistic.
You have to hope that things are going to pick up within two years as you are already in the pool. However there isn't a shed of evidence to support that hope.
It may be that some airlines actually want to take low houred cadets willing to sign contracts on very low net pay. IF they can find a way to encourage highly paid SFO's to leave and replace them with cadets on a new recession-era cadet pay scale then there may be some reasonable job opportunities for those with 200hrs. We shall have to see.
Bottom line, only a tiny fraction of Wannabes ever read these pages and only a small minority ever pay any heed to my opinion. The schools are full still and I can't imagine a bleaker more off-putting picture than right now so until the oil actually runs out...
WWW
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DME Dave,
But that's exactly what your doing. Giving career advice based on your economic prediction.
mrfilbert,
That may have been what you wanted to hear but I wouldn't base your career decision based on the views of a cadet.
However you do seem more realisitic than most wannabees and you state that you would be happy to wait 2 years to get a job after training.
Good luck
I'm not qualified to give financial and ecomomic advice
If I were you I would go full throttle into your training because I guarantee that by the time you finish the industry will have picked up
That may have been what you wanted to hear but I wouldn't base your career decision based on the views of a cadet.
However you do seem more realisitic than most wannabees and you state that you would be happy to wait 2 years to get a job after training.
Good luck