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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

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The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

Old 28th Oct 2008, 08:32
  #2261 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Always used to think that if you ever had to ditch you would be right in the poo but............! All in all thats bit of a sh1tter isn't it!!!
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Old 28th Oct 2008, 08:38
  #2262 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London
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Just clearing up a couple of misconceptions

Originally Posted by Captain Spam Can View Post
...
1K a month for 6 months is hard i know but its only for 6 months and i dont have to fork out 30k for a type rating.
...
Cpt SC, I hate to be the devil's advocate here but my understanding is the reason that CTC cadets only get paid 1000 for the first six months is that the remainder of their salary is used by the airline to pay CTC for the cadets' type rating. So you are in effect funding your own type rating (but at a much reduced rate so in a lot of ways it is still a good thing).

Originally Posted by Wee Weasley Welshman View Post
I predict dozens and possibly hundreds of 'cadets' with 80k bonds of whatever flavour will be standing in front of the Bankruptcy Court in 2009/2010.
...
And I believe that there is a clause in the contract which prevents cadets declaring themselves bankrupt to avoid their loans.

Last edited by flightless_bird; 28th Oct 2008 at 09:05.
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Old 28th Oct 2008, 10:06
  #2263 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
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If you're bankrupt, you're bankrupt - you cannot pay your creditors. It is for a judge to decide and stamp your bankruptcy petition, not CTC! The judge may of course reject your application.

However, the 12 months following your bankruptcy can see the court imposing a repayment program if you do then start earning money of sufficient quantities which they consider should be paid to your creditors. That can last up to 5 years.
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Old 28th Oct 2008, 19:53
  #2264 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Auckland
Age: 30
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in a way im glad im doing it in new zealand cos we get the student loans etc and no matter what happens we just paying a percentage of our salary back to the govt till payed off, although would love to be able to get type rating like you guys.

another few questions....

how long into the ground school will i start flying? are us kiwis in classes with the british people?

cheeeers for the help.
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Old 28th Oct 2008, 20:47
  #2265 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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I see the ctc cadets are not just landing themselves in huge amounts of debt but are landing in vast amounts of SH*T
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Old 28th Oct 2008, 22:18
  #2266 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: london
Posts: 166
To all prospective CTCers

A few things all prospective CTCers should know.

1. It is not a sponsored scheme.

From the CTC Wings Cadet site...
The CTC Wings Cadet Programme is a sponsored programme, which means you won't be paying for your training
Total Bo**ocks. You pay 60,000, or whatever it is these days. IF (and I'll come to this later) you get a permanent job at the end, your salary is 12,000 a year less than the normal F/O salary which goes to paying back your loan.... plus interest. You are paying for your training. End of.

2. CTC have created this pilot excess themselves.
Once upon a time, there were 4-6 cadets a course. Now there are 16 (give or take a few). In the current climate, it would be hard enough placing 4 cadets a month, let alone 16. Money talks.

3. The scheme is designed for airlines to take on dirt cheap pilots for 6 months and enable them to dump them at the end should they so desire. If the airline then wants more pilots, they can take a new batch of dirt cheap pilots and keep this cycle going.

End result? A rapidly growing pile of type rated pilots with 400hrs on type with little to no job prospects anywhere else. It is the reality. It's happening now. Wake up to it.

4. Wings iCP is a money making product using their currently good name.
Chief Pilot: So you went through CTC?
Cadet: Yes.
Chief Pilot: So did you do the Wings Cadet or Wings iCP?
Cadet: iCP
Chief Pilot: Why?
Cadet:...................................?

I am stating facts, not opinions. Feel free to deduce any opinions that you wish.
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Old 29th Oct 2008, 01:27
  #2267 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
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cheers for that mate much appreciated, looking forward to life down there! hopefully it aint too frustrating on the ground just wanting to fly haha.

is this eagle placement just a one off or is it looking to be continued? i heard from a pilot that they might have mucked up a lil bit in the process? hope not but good on them for getting through!
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Old 29th Oct 2008, 01:37
  #2268 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by no sponsor View Post
If you're bankrupt, you're bankrupt - you cannot pay your creditors. It is for a judge to decide and stamp your bankruptcy petition, not CTC! The judge may of course reject your application.
...
Sorry, I meant the loan contract with the bank, not the training contract with CTC so you are right: it is not up to CTC to decide whether you are bankrupt or not.
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Old 29th Oct 2008, 09:45
  #2269 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
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A few more things all prospective CTCers should know

Originally Posted by sharpclassic View Post
A few things all prospective CTCers should know.

1. It is not a sponsored scheme.
...
3. The scheme is designed for airlines to take on dirt cheap pilots for 6 months and enable them to dump them at the end should they so desire. If the airline then wants more pilots, they can take a new batch of dirt cheap pilots and keep this cycle going.
...
sharpclassic, you are right, even though CTC say that the scheme is sponsored in my mind it is not. You do indeed pay for your training and your salary (before the amount given to you for bond repayment) is 12,000 less per year. However at the same time you get a lot more training for your for 60,000 than you have actually paid for: namely the Airline Qualification Course (containing the Multicrew Co-operation Course and the Jet Orientation Course) and the cheap type-rating so you could argue that there is a sponsorship aspect there.

I do have to disagree with you with regards to your third point though. Apparently easyJet is actually treating the cadets they have not been able to offer positions to after their line training pretty well. While they are indeed not currently able to hire them currently they are continuing to pay them the portion of their salary which is used to repay their bond (1,000 a month) and have said that they will offer them positions again when things pick up after the winter. This to me doesn't sound like an airline just dumping cadets in able to take up a new batch of dirt cheap pilots.
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Old 29th Oct 2008, 09:51
  #2270 (permalink)  
 
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Sharpclassic

'4. Wings iCP is a money making product using their currently good name.
Chief Pilot: So you went through CTC?
Cadet: Yes.
Chief Pilot: So did you do the Wings Cadet or Wings iCP?
Cadet: iCP
Chief Pilot: Why?
Cadet:...................................?'

Are you trying to ambigously say somethng? Do you have experience of this response?

I'm on the ICP scheme and quite proud of it. If I get that question then I will simply say I missed the maths by 2 questions, but was offered the ICP scheme. I then took it because I feel / felt that CTC would give me the best training from the FTO's available.

I would like to think that an employer would look at your training record as a whole and not the fact you missed one scheme by a very small margin.
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Old 29th Oct 2008, 10:21
  #2271 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Flightless Bird,

Maybe so, but if EZY are unable to offer these guys full time contracts, why are a number of 'pay-to-fly' pilots being put throught their line training at this moment?


Jaimz,

All im saying is that the iCP scheme is no different from any other training school in the world. You pay your money, you get your licence.
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Old 29th Oct 2008, 19:32
  #2272 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Uk
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Anyone been to the new phase 2/3 selection day in the past couple of months?
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Old 29th Oct 2008, 22:33
  #2273 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
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did mine in september, gonna reapply in early march. good day, i recommend you stay there overnight so your as fresha s you can be , you'll also get some very helpful tips off some very nice people.
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Old 30th Oct 2008, 00:21
  #2274 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sharpclassic View Post
...
Maybe so, but if EZY are unable to offer these guys full time contracts, why are a number of 'pay-to-fly' pilots being put throught their line training at this moment?
...
I do not know about this (and try to only talk about things that I do know about so that PPRuNe remains a useful resourse). One possibility though is that they have a contract with these pilots who are paying for their line training so are obliged to continue with their training even if they would rather it were the CTC cadets flying in their place but as I said I am not sure, sorry.
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Old 30th Oct 2008, 13:00
  #2275 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,079
Those ATP guys and gals are a source of revenue for the airline. Although CTC cadets are cheaper than direct entry F/Os, the ATP cadets are making the airline money, so why would they stop offering seats which people pay for, even if they are at the pointy end?
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Old 30th Oct 2008, 16:48
  #2276 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
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Age: 39
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Maybe you think it is an abuse, but for a lot of us is the unique chance in our lifes to become an airline pilot.

From my point of view, CTC Wings is the people who will make my dream become real (if I am lucky), since I am in my reapplication.

Have good flights.
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Old 30th Oct 2008, 16:59
  #2277 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
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easyJet is actually treating the cadets they have not been able to offer positions to after their line training pretty well. While they are indeed not currently able to hire them currently they are continuing to pay them the portion of their salary which is used to repay their bond (1,000 a month) and have said that they will offer them positions again when things pick up after the winter. This to me doesn't sound like an airline just dumping cadets in able to take up a new batch of dirt cheap pilots.
That's with the proviso that if they agree to this deal then all other contracts/deals with EZY & CTC are considered expired.

Translation: we think you would have a chance of winning if you took us/CTC to court for breach of contract, so we're hoping you're desperate enough to take a pathetic amount of money to go away and keep quiet instead of fighting. Oh and easyJet can cancel this deal at any time (like, for instance, the week after you sign it and before you get any cash).

How does it sound like they're treating people now?
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Old 30th Oct 2008, 18:43
  #2278 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 355
You know, when you analise these bonds, are they really not a rip off?

Are the airlines not claiming training grants, government subsidies, huge volume discounts from the training organisations etc etc then, adding admin charges etc etc, not to mention claiming back the VAT and setting the training cost off against profit and therefore corporation tax (if, they are in profit!!)

I wonder what the true cost of your bond really is!!

Just a thought!!
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Old 30th Oct 2008, 23:43
  #2279 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: West Sussex
Age: 38
Posts: 45
Hi can some one PM me with the planes that are flown in New Zealand,

I've heard it's Cessnas and Robins, if so which ones?

Any helps appreciated,

Thanks

Jim
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Old 31st Oct 2008, 12:44
  #2280 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: FL330
Posts: 235
Not too sure which Robins & Cessnas but they also have Diamond DA40 and the DA42 Twinstar
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