Pilot shortages, News Events, And What Are The Effects On Airline Jobs?

[Adj]

hi
as previosuly stated the likes of easyjet need 450 pilots this coming year which is a hell of an amount....a friend of mine has just got through his type rating with them and can't fly as they don't have enough training captains in the fleet as yet!!!
also there are about 2000 qualified pilots in the UK not flying...for many reasons and many backgrounds hence why a lot of companys will still be inundated with applications!
the stats in china and the far easy quote that due to the rapid expansion they require 8000 pilots by the year 2010 and will accept both JAA and FAA licenses (though prefer JAA) but lack the lucrative salaries of the middle east and europe t present.....the people who are likely to move will be experienced pilots and captains......most airlines promote from within so an FO going to SFO and SFO to captain creates availability for a new FO to be employed!
not only this but currently as we speak there are 2 BRAND NEW A319 for easyjet sitting in the hangars unable to fly as they can;t crew them!
pilot shortage....maybe not right now but i would certainly say the future demand is going to be high - my friend got the choice in his GECAT interview to pick between flying easyjet or for BMI - how often does that happen?? for me aand most people any would do!
thanks
adj

[scroggs]

Originally Posted by -8AS

Cathay now have a 'C' scale!! People thought it was bad when the 'A' scale was dropped for a 'B'! There are also long haul operators who employ Second Officers (crusie pilots) who earn less than senior cabin crew!

Cathay have had the C scale for some years.

BA FOs (not SFOs) earn less than senior CSDs. That has been the case for quite some time.

Scroggs

[wingbar]

Something drastically wrong then if the professional at the front, the FO, who ultimately collectively takes the bullet when it goes foul,gets less than the guy running the Tea and Cake party in the back???

What an great idea that was,must do wonders for Moral at BA?

"I'm an F/o flying a multimillion pound aircraft, but I get paid less than the guy who's real day to day, if were honest here, is serving the dinner and putting up with the abuse from the bus users (PAX)"

You know, I'm glad I retired today,

WB

[Piltdown Man]

The reason senior cabin crew are paid more than F/O's is because they are not so stupid as to work for nothing nor buy their own type ratings. As soon as nobody pays (and we bother the politicians to to stop the "cheap foreign imports" - ie. non-EU "pilots of convenience") for a type rating the sooner we start improving our T's and C's. Yes the punters will pay more, but I recon another fiver a sector each to pay us properly is reasonable. The flights will still be cheap but Mr Brown and his merry bunch of thieves will still walk away with more than we will and they haven't done a damn thing to earn it.

[potkettleblack]

Err the reason why the senior CSD's at BA were/are earning over £100k pa was due to a number of factors but I can't see working for free as one I am afraid. Try a more proactive union negotiating better pay scales, the fact that some of them have decided to stay on forever and not leave the companies employment therefore getting incremental increases year on year, a severe shortage of senior CSD's on certain longhaul fleets in the past few years which meant BA had to go cap in hand offering huge incentives for them to fly additional sectors (thousands extra per month). All this has been done to death over the years on pprune if you do a search. Good on them though. If you were in their shoes you would be doing exactly the same thing and not leaving in a hurry. But hey lets not let the truth get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

[low n' slow]

There is a pilot shortage. However the definition of pilot is a quite wide one and to me it seems there's a huge gap between what is required and what can be offered in terms of new pilots. At the moment in my company, there is a huge shortage of captains, type rated and experienced on type. This however, does not make any lowtimers feel better.

As has been said previously, the language is also a big barrier. Finland for example has a booming aviation industry at the moment. However, none of the Finnish carriers will accept non Finnish spoken applicants. It's a real shame because the amount of jobs on offer over here is amazing (compared to my homecountry, Sweden). If operators would accept the fact that English is the language to be used aviation, we could all use the benefits that came with JAR FCL and the EU/EASA or whatever it's called this month...

Regards/ LnS

[MVE]

There is a pilot shortage! A shortage of experienced and mature professionals unwilling to accept poor conditions, pay and treatement from management who are only interested in and will only ever be interested in maximising profit. Until the wannabe stops paying to work, there will be no change. It's plain to see that the reason T's + C's have dropped over the years is that we as a workforce have allowed it to happen.

Oh and wingbar, if you have just retired from the industry you will appreciate that neither the bods at the front or the bods at the back get paid for JUST what they do day to day, but for what they are trained to do when the $hit hits the fan! The fact that they have enhanced their T's and C's, rather than let them slide is kudos to them!

[scroggs]

MVE, you've got the wrong end of Wingbar's stick - he's just retired from being a Wannabe because he can't find a job. That'll be because of the pilot shortage, I imagine!

Scroggs

[paco]

An interesting thread - for information it's just the same with helicopters, in that there are enough pilots to fill all the vacancies - the trouble is they all have 100 hours and are therefore not wanted by the customers who are demanding more and more skills for the most elementary of jobs.


"a friend of mine has just got through his type rating with them and can't fly as they don't have enough training captains in the fleet as yet!!!"


Monarch were in that situation around 25-odd years ago when pilots were joining but couldn't fly for 6 weeks as the training captains were doing the line flying (for those who can't remember, this was just before Air Europe went down and provided a few pilots to grease the wheels a bit). If I remember rightly, you couldn't get on a course for 4 years at any of the authorised schools, and if you had a letter saying you were on a course, you effectively had a job. It seems those heady times have come back again.

Phil

[Northern Highflyer]

Mervyn Granshaw from BALPA is quoted in Flight International last week as saying

"...all UK airlines are predicting growth over the coming year. However, the number of new pilots is not keeping up with demand. There is a continuing labour supply issue...."

Reading these boards, and from personal experience, that is not the impression I get. It is often quoted on here that there never has been and never will be a shortage of low houred pilots, so where does MG get his information from ? There are more than enough "new pilots" out there to meet the demand, otherwise we would all have jobs.

[wingbar]

In 100% agreement, if it was true that a real shortage existed, why am I writing this from the 10 floor of an office block gazing across the city scape wishing I was flying.............

Shortage of low hours pilots...ha! My bottom will be painted blue the day that happens, and I walk through the terminal on my first day with it so !

WB

[RVR800]

Its a common feature of BALPA to 'talk up' this whole sector - they like to give the impression that pilots are in short supply so they can negotiate higher wages....

Its not based on anything empirical like the numbers of people doing CPL/IRs in the UK

[Northern Highflyer]

The airlines only have to look at the pile of CV's in their in tray to know there is no shortage. However, a quick look thorugh that pile will also tell them that the experienced people are running out which should (rightly) push up T's and C's. It should also get them thinking about just where they are going to get future crews from, and start tapping into the (very large) pool of low hour wannabes, which some, but by no means all, are doing. (CAA requirements and balance of experience levels all noted)

Airlines are expanding, any many comments on here from those on the inside are that most are very short on crews already. Sooner or later someone will surely have to bite the bullet.

[ITFC1]

Well i have 1850 TT, 1100 Turbine and 150 Jet, 1250 multi crew stuff and i'm not getting a look in. I am 34 years old. I don think i am too old.

I seem to be caught between the low hour guys they need and the high hours guys.

[Mercenary Pilot]

Originally Posted by ITFC1

Well i have 1850 TT, 1100 Turbine and 150 Jet, 1250 multi crew stuff and i'm not getting a look in. I am 34 years old. I don think i am too old.

I seem to be caught between the low hour guys they need and the high hours guys.

Im surprised at that ITFC1, have you tried any of the corporate outfits (Netjets etc.)?

[ITFC1]

Not yet to be honest, i fancy trying the Airlines, i was working for in corporate company before i lost my job.

Can you recommend any particular airlines for me? i have looked at Flybe who said i should apply when their recruitment starts again on October 1st, but i dont think they have opened again as of earlier today.

[IMC007]

Try Flybe

ITFC1

Try Flybe, I believe they are having a recruitment day on 18th/19th October up In Scotland for the Dash 8 Q400, looking for fast track command, I know it's a turbo prop but they have and are getting E195's

Look on thier web site under vacancies.

Good luck

[dartagnan]

I am like ITFC1, 1800h, light turbine time,500 h light multi piston...people dont'seem interested by me even if I offer to pay for a type rating.

[757manipulator]

dartagnan, IMC007
I can sympathise with you guys, I had similar experience in regards to flying, and I kept finding that the airlines were snapping up these CTC, and the "pay for your rating" numpties.
In the end I was at the stage of throwing my hands in the air, and going off to do a 737 rating..at least I thought it would get me an interview..and then a chance to shine (I hoped!!) Then a chance conversation with a fellow flying club member got me a phone number to the fleet manager at the airline I currently fly at....girding up thy loins, I made the call, as it happened they were recruiting, but sadly all the slots had been filled I suggested that should someone drop out, or if they needed a sim bod at short notice I could be the man for the job.
5 weeks later I had a sim assessment, they looked at my CV and covering letter AFTER I'd completed the exercise.
The rest is history...........don't give up, be resourceful, get the contacts, do the groundwork, it will happen if you stick at it

By the way my Type rating and training hasn't cost me a penny

[Mercenary Pilot]

Originally Posted by 757manipulator

In the end I was at the stage of throwing my hands in the air, and going off to do a 737 rating..at least I thought it would get me an interview..and then a chance to shine (I hoped!!)

Originally Posted by 757manipulator

"pay for your rating" numpties

Errr i gotta say, that sounds a little hypocritical 757manipulator