Pilot shortages, News Events, And What Are The Effects On Airline Jobs?
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Age: 43
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"If all this does something to temper the currently crazy rate of aviation expansion, that won't be a bad thing. There are far more serious threats to aviation on the horizon - fuel taxation among them."
"True as that may be, what has that - exactly - to do with today's events?"
.. I was referring to what you were saying about fuel tax. The other problem is changing the fuel source!; which may result in low fuel tax in the long run... that's how it's linked, to your reply.
"kazi285" .. yes, slightly random LOL! .. hey he's cheering up the topic!
"True as that may be, what has that - exactly - to do with today's events?"
.. I was referring to what you were saying about fuel tax. The other problem is changing the fuel source!; which may result in low fuel tax in the long run... that's how it's linked, to your reply.
"kazi285" .. yes, slightly random LOL! .. hey he's cheering up the topic!
If these events put you off becoming a pilot, then I definately recommend you go find a nice office job and do that for the rest of your life from 9 - 5, because your heart isn't in the right place.
EpsilonVaz
EpsilonVaz
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: between the books
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by EpsilonVaz
If these events put you off becoming a pilot, then I definately recommend you go find a nice office job and do that for the rest of your life from 9 - 5, because your heart isn't in the right place.
EpsilonVaz
EpsilonVaz
Anything can happen anywhere, these attacks gain more attention as they are probably less common then say, a fire in an office building or something wrong going on the substratum.... or else it could be just for political agenda.. dunno..
but I'm sure that kind of thinkin would lead you nowhere...!
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, an event like this should make you think long and hard about choosing aviation as a career. The whole pilot dream hangs on a fine thread. Any terrorist attack, war, oil shock, taxation, recession or anything of that ilk means that you may well be left unemployed and/or with no way back into the industry. Most of the wannabees reading this were not around these forums during the 2000 - 2003 period. Back in 2000 things were much like they are now; jobs around and plenty of hope. 9/11 changed all that and left experienced guys like Scroggs wondering when they were going to be laid off and newbies with 60k of debt and a qualification that wasn't going to lead to a job. That's pretty much how things were for the next couple of years. I'm not saying don't train, but do worry!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: London
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whilst the risks of being killed at work are probably higher for a taxi driver or bus driver than for a pilot even after this week's events, I do think that aviation is not going to carry on growing at the exponential rate it has over the past few years.
UK Airports are full and further expansion is going to be resisted. Oil prices continue to rise and there is pressure for carbon tax which may or may not happen.
Either way ticket prices will rise, and security worries will be just one more twist of the knife.
By all means train but think long and hard about what happens to jobs and salaries if the industry hits a downturn, and even more carriers lose money and go to the wall than do now.
UK Airports are full and further expansion is going to be resisted. Oil prices continue to rise and there is pressure for carbon tax which may or may not happen.
Either way ticket prices will rise, and security worries will be just one more twist of the knife.
By all means train but think long and hard about what happens to jobs and salaries if the industry hits a downturn, and even more carriers lose money and go to the wall than do now.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Barcelona
Age: 41
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Isn't all this chat about an industry downturn a bit premature and a little reactionary? The plot was foiled, it didn't actually happen unlike 9/11. I believe 9/11 was uniquely different to this event in the fact we actually saw the video footage of planes crashing into buldings thus sending out a far more powerful message to the western world and indeed the aviation industry. As Scroggs was saying, the impending increase in fuel tax and quite possibly higher temperature sin the UK are more likely to lead to less passengers than a foiled terrorist attack.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Forties Delta Production Platform
Age: 42
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by EI-Shamrock
If anything, I think it's encouraging that the authorities foiled this plot which ultimately would have resulted in mass devastation. The skies are safer because of them.
)But answering something scroggs said, I recall last month I was on a BA flight from Malta, I went to the loo up in business class (not bragging here, travelling's in me job) and the cockpit door was wide open as the F/O went back to the cockpit. I thought to myself, if I was a terrorist, I could easily jump 'em. Thing is cockpit intrusions havent ceased since 9/11, and I dont think we've seen the last of hijackings, unfortunatley.
As, regards to the original question, it didnt even cross my mind to put me off airliners. Something that did put me off doing it again was that little trip to Iraq last year......!
Expansion of the industry will have to rapidly slow down in the UK.
Just think. 10 years ago - might seem like a long time if you're 19 but really its not - Ryanair had 7 aircraft and easyJet had 2. Alone they now have a fleet of 210 jets buzzing in and out of mostly the UK from 6am to 11pm every day bar Christmas. Then add in Globespan, Jet 2 and all the other startups. Recall that the established players have grown, Virgin keep buying aircraft and BA has not shrunk.
Whilst there will be further expansion there is no way all this is going to be replicated over the next decade. There wouldn't be enough space to park the aircraft at night for one thing.
So job hunting in the UK is likely to get harder albeit with many more jobs in existence.
My prediction - tell Flight to hold the front page - is that Continental Europe will see something similar to what has happened in the UK. Italy, Spain, France, Portugal, Scandanavia, all dominated by inefficient inflexible legacy airlines. All with plenty of space, large half empty airports and either a wealthy population or a rapidly becoming so one.
Having a fluency in a second language might indeed become the killer attribute to a Wannabes CV in the coming years. Your first job might well be on a jet in Asturias/Porto/Bergamo/Marseille/Esberj.
Or just as likely in the Warsaw Pact countries. How is your Hungarian?
Interesting times ahead.
Cheers
WWW
Just think. 10 years ago - might seem like a long time if you're 19 but really its not - Ryanair had 7 aircraft and easyJet had 2. Alone they now have a fleet of 210 jets buzzing in and out of mostly the UK from 6am to 11pm every day bar Christmas. Then add in Globespan, Jet 2 and all the other startups. Recall that the established players have grown, Virgin keep buying aircraft and BA has not shrunk.
Whilst there will be further expansion there is no way all this is going to be replicated over the next decade. There wouldn't be enough space to park the aircraft at night for one thing.
So job hunting in the UK is likely to get harder albeit with many more jobs in existence.
My prediction - tell Flight to hold the front page - is that Continental Europe will see something similar to what has happened in the UK. Italy, Spain, France, Portugal, Scandanavia, all dominated by inefficient inflexible legacy airlines. All with plenty of space, large half empty airports and either a wealthy population or a rapidly becoming so one.
Having a fluency in a second language might indeed become the killer attribute to a Wannabes CV in the coming years. Your first job might well be on a jet in Asturias/Porto/Bergamo/Marseille/Esberj.
Or just as likely in the Warsaw Pact countries. How is your Hungarian?
Interesting times ahead.
Cheers
WWW
If the 'plastic bag' restriction lasts more than a month, then there most certainly will be a significant loss of revenue to the airlines.
Even yesterday the few people travelling with me in Business Class to Europe were talking about looking at Eurotunnel and Eurostar. Either to travel to a less restrictive European airport, or to drive to our destinations.
When the high speed link from London to the continent is complete, you can expect to see a lot more business travellers using the train.
Some of us actually need things like mobile phones and laptop computers as business tools during our journeys - rather than kids with iPods, business travellers do need to be able to communicate with customers, their offices etc and are not really prepared to their risk valuable and essential items being left to the mercy of baggage crunchers.
If you think that there won't be any impact on airline pilot requirements in the UK following the current security restrictions, think again!
Even yesterday the few people travelling with me in Business Class to Europe were talking about looking at Eurotunnel and Eurostar. Either to travel to a less restrictive European airport, or to drive to our destinations.
When the high speed link from London to the continent is complete, you can expect to see a lot more business travellers using the train.
Some of us actually need things like mobile phones and laptop computers as business tools during our journeys - rather than kids with iPods, business travellers do need to be able to communicate with customers, their offices etc and are not really prepared to their risk valuable and essential items being left to the mercy of baggage crunchers.
If you think that there won't be any impact on airline pilot requirements in the UK following the current security restrictions, think again!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: varies..a lot
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some of us actually need things like mobile phones and laptop computers as business tools during our journeys - rather than kids with iPods, business travellers do need to be able to communicate with customers, their offices etc and are not really prepared to their risk valuable and essential items being left to the mercy of baggage crunchers.
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
Posts: 4,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do not turn this into a discussion about the current - and hopefully short-lived - security arrangements. There is a perfectly adequate thread for that here (where BEagle has made an almost identical post to the one above...). There's probably something more emotive in JetBlast!
Please remember the title of this thread, and stick to that discussion.
Scroggs
Please remember the title of this thread, and stick to that discussion.
Scroggs
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Most definitly!
Nothing like these events will put me off a career in flying. Its part of the world today and we have to adjust to the situation. As has been said hopefully the restrictions will be lifted soon, and normality to some extent return!
As an aside its good to see the loocos cracking on with it, and Virgin opening check in desks early, not loosing any business ( well done scroggs, someones got some common sense in your airline!) Oh and BA still cancelling flights all over the place and will probably be wondering why they are loosing out in revenue big time in a couple of weeks!
Sorry had to slip that one in there, just seems they have to be 'different' all the time.
Nothing like these events will put me off a career in flying. Its part of the world today and we have to adjust to the situation. As has been said hopefully the restrictions will be lifted soon, and normality to some extent return!
As an aside its good to see the loocos cracking on with it, and Virgin opening check in desks early, not loosing any business ( well done scroggs, someones got some common sense in your airline!) Oh and BA still cancelling flights all over the place and will probably be wondering why they are loosing out in revenue big time in a couple of weeks!
Sorry had to slip that one in there, just seems they have to be 'different' all the time.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: DUBLIN
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good point,
I was actually looking at this. I will be hopefully starting my ATPL in new year. (self funded).
Self funded or sponsored is huge personal responsibility and pressure. Along with that it’s a risk as no job is guaranteed at the end of it!
I shall be watching the situation very closely over the next few months.
In saying that, I love flying, it’s my 1st desire for life and I will stop at nothing to actually do it and get my ATPL. Im 23 next week so, I think I have a few years before im too old to go do it (or so im told)!!!
The recent plots or future ones may only delay the speed I start my training.
I think the security can only get better, until its water tight but in saying that, at what cost?
I hope these recent plots don’t affect the way, future job prospects. If they do, hopefully its only short term!!!!
Happy flying....
I was actually looking at this. I will be hopefully starting my ATPL in new year. (self funded).
Self funded or sponsored is huge personal responsibility and pressure. Along with that it’s a risk as no job is guaranteed at the end of it!
I shall be watching the situation very closely over the next few months.
In saying that, I love flying, it’s my 1st desire for life and I will stop at nothing to actually do it and get my ATPL. Im 23 next week so, I think I have a few years before im too old to go do it (or so im told)!!!
The recent plots or future ones may only delay the speed I start my training.
I think the security can only get better, until its water tight but in saying that, at what cost?
I hope these recent plots don’t affect the way, future job prospects. If they do, hopefully its only short term!!!!
Happy flying....
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: between the books
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Who knows?
Airlines are already facing the fuel prices problem... incidents like we've seen in the past only make it worse... of course, it will affect aviation, but not on a worldwide scale I guess... the fact that security staff managed to stop it, shows that these people are becoming professionals at their jobs..
9/11 was a much more worrying event than this one for sure though...
Let's be positive...
Airlines are already facing the fuel prices problem... incidents like we've seen in the past only make it worse... of course, it will affect aviation, but not on a worldwide scale I guess... the fact that security staff managed to stop it, shows that these people are becoming professionals at their jobs..
9/11 was a much more worrying event than this one for sure though...
Let's be positive...
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: DUBLIN
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, at least it didnt get as bad as 9/11.
The media (which is my current profession) seem to always speculate, making matters worse.
Infact, if one steps back from everything and looks at the bigger picture, i would say that the UK government was made to look quite good.
Funny, its just was the government needed id say. The real american view and attitude: "yeaaa we got them"!
Totally blown out of proprtion!!! (sorry probably a bad choice of word there)
The media (which is my current profession) seem to always speculate, making matters worse.
Infact, if one steps back from everything and looks at the bigger picture, i would say that the UK government was made to look quite good.
Funny, its just was the government needed id say. The real american view and attitude: "yeaaa we got them"!
Totally blown out of proprtion!!! (sorry probably a bad choice of word there)