Why is it everyones goal to fly a big jet ??
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I'm with jayteeto, I like taking me Ma' for a spin round the dales in a 152 and flying (well, ok - operating) a jet as a day job means I can afford to do it on a reasonably regular basis.
And to the guys saying how much they love automation - fair enough but you soon get envious of how much 'hand flying' the autopilot does while you sit and watch!
And to the guys saying how much they love automation - fair enough but you soon get envious of how much 'hand flying' the autopilot does while you sit and watch!
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Originally Posted by Jack's a dull boy
I'd bet even your limited experience exceeds that of OSOP.
I have zero actual hours on a "big shiny jet" and if you looked at my profile, you would see that my current type is MEP. My "limited" experience however, includes a few years with many OPCs and numerous real world failures (in aircraft that dont gaurantee good climbout performance OEI) as well as many simulated emergencies performed in the actual aircraft.I dont apologise for having a stong opinion on the statement...
" Many of the emergencies conducted in the sim will never happen to a pilot in his career " ....
... because this shows a distinct lack of respect for what can and does happen in real life and it conditions a person to not expect the unexpected. You train for emergencies because they DO happen whether thats in an SEP, MEP, MET or MEJ aircraft.
Bad Credit, I was not criticising your ability or your determination however you made a pretty strong statement that should be beaten out of every student by every instructor. You got a low time job and now fly a jet and that is to be commended however, it comes with a huge responsibility and (as I still do) you have a lot to learn. A little respect for the aeroplane always goes a long way and would be the best place to start.
Jacks a dull boy, This is not a pissing into the wind competition. I am happy wth my situation but when I hear that comment, a chill runs up my spine! Regardless of the experience level of the pilot that says it. I dont apologise for that! Heres a thought, why dont you make that statement at your next LPC/OPC and see what reaction it gets you!
Last edited by On speed on profile; 1st Jun 2006 at 10:04.
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I know that i have loads to learn and enjoy that challenge. I also know i will be learning to the day i retire. Again... I have explained that i made a statement. Its a fact. This does not mean i dont have respect for the aircraft i fly or think that i am exempt from failures etc....Far from it. You say that you should never assume in an earlier post. I agree. When i make a statement dont assume i lack respect for the aircraft.
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Bad Credit,
I thought I had always respected my aircraft fully until one day, I questioned the reason a Chief Pilot about his reasons for operating in a way that was contradictory to my training (what someone else had taught me). What he said, shocked me into thinking about the implications of getting something wrong because the person who had trained me had failed to instill the importance of preparing oneself fully to expect the unexpected. I realised that I hadn't been taking the threat of OEI after takeoff as seriosuly as I should and now, my pre takeoff checks take 15 seconds longer than they used to. Every time! You are right about the fact that something like a V1 failure happens very rarely but the point I was trying to make is that you should always expect it to happen, no matter how rare it is. I think you have got that point now and I am sure you (and I hope everyone else on this thread) will be thinking about it hard next time you line up on the runway.
Safe flying!
I thought I had always respected my aircraft fully until one day, I questioned the reason a Chief Pilot about his reasons for operating in a way that was contradictory to my training (what someone else had taught me). What he said, shocked me into thinking about the implications of getting something wrong because the person who had trained me had failed to instill the importance of preparing oneself fully to expect the unexpected. I realised that I hadn't been taking the threat of OEI after takeoff as seriosuly as I should and now, my pre takeoff checks take 15 seconds longer than they used to. Every time! You are right about the fact that something like a V1 failure happens very rarely but the point I was trying to make is that you should always expect it to happen, no matter how rare it is. I think you have got that point now and I am sure you (and I hope everyone else on this thread) will be thinking about it hard next time you line up on the runway.
Safe flying!
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Fly a big jet? Not me.
I'm sure like many people here, I've always got a kick out of flying, either as a passenger or a spectator. I've always been fascinated by big jets and fighter aircraft, but up until recently I'd never had any interest in any aircraft with a prop.
At least that's what I used to think before I started to fly - now it's all the other way around. I guess because I know I'll never be able to find the time or money to learn to fly a jet, this side of aviation doesn't consume me as much as it once did.
People I have met say that while flying airliners is a wonderful lifestyle (read exotic destinations, nice hotels, social life, but travelling is not always fun in excess, especially when so much of your time is spent away from family), there is a lot more management of the aircraft and less flying to do compared to the much more basic, seat of your pants flying that some of the small props offer. On that proviso, for me at least, I now think flying props sounds better. Not as glamourous no, but possibly a little more romantic?
Don't all shoot me down in flames, this is just my opinion and I'm not dissing airline pilots or their craft. If I was given the chance I'd love to fly a jet but for me that would only ever be a pipe dream.
Realistically, I could only ever hope to gain PPL and some endorsements to improve my skills but time and cost would always limit my hobby to props. Maybe if I win lotto(!), and I'm good enough to be able to instruct complete newcomers like me one day, I'd be absolutely wrapped.
I hear the pay sucks and for many it's a means to an end, but as someone who has had the pleasure of teaching others, I can say I've never done anything more rewarding. Teaching people to fly, I reckon that'd be job satisfaction in spades.
At least that's what I used to think before I started to fly - now it's all the other way around. I guess because I know I'll never be able to find the time or money to learn to fly a jet, this side of aviation doesn't consume me as much as it once did.
People I have met say that while flying airliners is a wonderful lifestyle (read exotic destinations, nice hotels, social life, but travelling is not always fun in excess, especially when so much of your time is spent away from family), there is a lot more management of the aircraft and less flying to do compared to the much more basic, seat of your pants flying that some of the small props offer. On that proviso, for me at least, I now think flying props sounds better. Not as glamourous no, but possibly a little more romantic?
Don't all shoot me down in flames, this is just my opinion and I'm not dissing airline pilots or their craft. If I was given the chance I'd love to fly a jet but for me that would only ever be a pipe dream.
Realistically, I could only ever hope to gain PPL and some endorsements to improve my skills but time and cost would always limit my hobby to props. Maybe if I win lotto(!), and I'm good enough to be able to instruct complete newcomers like me one day, I'd be absolutely wrapped.
I hear the pay sucks and for many it's a means to an end, but as someone who has had the pleasure of teaching others, I can say I've never done anything more rewarding. Teaching people to fly, I reckon that'd be job satisfaction in spades.
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OSOP. Your point is very valid. No doubt about it. To make the last point clear though. In all my posts i never said i did not expect it to happen. I do. Assumption once again. So i find it a little patronising when you say i have now got "that point". I allways have had and allways will have "that point"
Happy and safe flying to you too...
Happy and safe flying to you too...
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To bring this thread back onto topic, Im happily flying a small twin turboprop around envying nothing except the paychecks that airlines have to offer.
As I get older I expect that i'll be more inclined to start looking for a better paying job but that will be the main criterion. Type/location are less important to me.
To take it back off topic again, I believe that experience is "the best" training.
I dont understand why 200 hr pilots are even considered for jobs that carry such a huge responsibility although there is obviously a valid reason.
As I get older I expect that i'll be more inclined to start looking for a better paying job but that will be the main criterion. Type/location are less important to me.
To take it back off topic again, I believe that experience is "the best" training.
I dont understand why 200 hr pilots are even considered for jobs that carry such a huge responsibility although there is obviously a valid reason.
Last edited by Seaweed Knees; 1st Aug 2006 at 18:01.
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There's lots of people here posting with zero hours saying they want to fly jets and how they're gonna do it, Oxford, Cabair, Jerez, PPL at 17, ATPL at 19 and away we go. For how much one can appreciate the determination and forward vision and planning, to me it just clutters the posts and it doesn't really offer any useful information.
To me, knowing that Jimmy or Jane want to fork out 60 grand for an integrated .. well honeslty I couldn't care less.
I read this forum for months, without even posting a word on it because I had zero hours.
I felt sick on my first flying lesson. Didn't feel great on the second either. Had serious doubt until the 5th whether I would continue my PPL at all. Same doubts arose again around the 12th-13th, struggling with landings and all ! Now I'm loving it and it's the highlight of my week. But how do I know if I will want to fly a jet ? Have I ever tried one ? Will I be able to ? yeah sure, the idea sounds promising... but let the experience develop naturally and take it where it shall.
I think real experience from fellow pilots and trainees, information about courses, schemes... That's useful. But the "what I want to do when I grow up" kind of thing.... I'm not sure we want to know !
Getting there, the challenge and reward of pushing your learning limits a bit further, and succeeding... well that's part of the fun. You might just as well enjoy it, with all that it costs !
Quite frankly, reading about 13 and 15 year old kids has kind of put me off pprune, which I once looked at as an incomparable source of information !
Peace
To me, knowing that Jimmy or Jane want to fork out 60 grand for an integrated .. well honeslty I couldn't care less.
I read this forum for months, without even posting a word on it because I had zero hours.
I felt sick on my first flying lesson. Didn't feel great on the second either. Had serious doubt until the 5th whether I would continue my PPL at all. Same doubts arose again around the 12th-13th, struggling with landings and all ! Now I'm loving it and it's the highlight of my week. But how do I know if I will want to fly a jet ? Have I ever tried one ? Will I be able to ? yeah sure, the idea sounds promising... but let the experience develop naturally and take it where it shall.
I think real experience from fellow pilots and trainees, information about courses, schemes... That's useful. But the "what I want to do when I grow up" kind of thing.... I'm not sure we want to know !
Getting there, the challenge and reward of pushing your learning limits a bit further, and succeeding... well that's part of the fun. You might just as well enjoy it, with all that it costs !
Quite frankly, reading about 13 and 15 year old kids has kind of put me off pprune, which I once looked at as an incomparable source of information !
Peace
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Pilot Entropy
In my observations pilots always want to fly anything that burns more fuel than what they're in now! They are always looking "Up" at the next thing that flies higher than what they are in at the time!
This is such a shame esp. when these guys are young and can't quite just relax and enjoy the light aircraft experience for a bit without torturing themselves over the fact that Richard Branson et al hasn't found them yet. People can get a lot out of little planes but dont!
One reason is that they want to get the dosh back asap i suppose and i found it interesting that so many here prattle about the mony been good in the airlines - bollox - 25 year old plumbers make far more(and pay less tax possibly).
They could take all this pressure off the kids by re-instating the old BCPL which did not cost a bomb and allowed people to build experience at their own pace without mortgaging their granny!
Dont kid yourself that been an airline pilot means youve hit paydirt - years ago (before we started selecting rich enuf people above talented enuf people) Captains did indeed get big money - i reckon in todays terms the equiv would be £350-500 K ? whos getting that now???
In relative terms the money is going backwards so wake up and be honest about your motives.
This is such a shame esp. when these guys are young and can't quite just relax and enjoy the light aircraft experience for a bit without torturing themselves over the fact that Richard Branson et al hasn't found them yet. People can get a lot out of little planes but dont!
One reason is that they want to get the dosh back asap i suppose and i found it interesting that so many here prattle about the mony been good in the airlines - bollox - 25 year old plumbers make far more(and pay less tax possibly).
They could take all this pressure off the kids by re-instating the old BCPL which did not cost a bomb and allowed people to build experience at their own pace without mortgaging their granny!
Dont kid yourself that been an airline pilot means youve hit paydirt - years ago (before we started selecting rich enuf people above talented enuf people) Captains did indeed get big money - i reckon in todays terms the equiv would be £350-500 K ? whos getting that now???
In relative terms the money is going backwards so wake up and be honest about your motives.
Size isn't everything!
Speaking as someone who has flown several big jets including classic and glass 747s, big = flying longer = more boredom = more fatigue. Flying a 747 across the Pacific may sound like the pinnacle of a pilot's career but it may mean one landing a month with lots and lots and lots of time in the cruise. The novelty wears off very very quickly! My airline is getting 747-400s. Everyone keeps asking "have you bid, you must want to fly them again!" Not a chance! Most of my colleages are Antipodeans who are desparate to fly something like a 747 because they don't get a chance to back in Oz. But after their first trip to Anchorage having flown 12 hours, being completely kn@ckered, landing in the dark (even though it's mid-day) in snow. I reckon their perception of the job will change very quickly.
Now I fly shorthaul on something much smaller - and it's great! More flying, more time at home, and I feel so much better!
But big is not necessarily harder either. The easiest big jet I have flown out of a total of five is the 747-400. The hardest flying, probably single pilot twin IFR. The most satisfying and fun - instructing!
Don't wish your life away. And you can always rent a small fun aircraft - unless you're like Scroggs and have a lot other comitments. Another hazard of long haul flying perhaps!
Speaking as someone who has flown several big jets including classic and glass 747s, big = flying longer = more boredom = more fatigue. Flying a 747 across the Pacific may sound like the pinnacle of a pilot's career but it may mean one landing a month with lots and lots and lots of time in the cruise. The novelty wears off very very quickly! My airline is getting 747-400s. Everyone keeps asking "have you bid, you must want to fly them again!" Not a chance! Most of my colleages are Antipodeans who are desparate to fly something like a 747 because they don't get a chance to back in Oz. But after their first trip to Anchorage having flown 12 hours, being completely kn@ckered, landing in the dark (even though it's mid-day) in snow. I reckon their perception of the job will change very quickly.
Now I fly shorthaul on something much smaller - and it's great! More flying, more time at home, and I feel so much better!
But big is not necessarily harder either. The easiest big jet I have flown out of a total of five is the 747-400. The hardest flying, probably single pilot twin IFR. The most satisfying and fun - instructing!
Don't wish your life away. And you can always rent a small fun aircraft - unless you're like Scroggs and have a lot other comitments. Another hazard of long haul flying perhaps!
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I’m with Spernkey. Way too many guys want to get in a big shiny plane long before they know how to fly a small plane well. I have found my self flying a light single in a demanding job. I think if I got a job flying a big jet I would want to jump of a bridge after a month. How exciding that would it be to have ZERO freedom (uniform, time, speed, altitude, heading you are told everything!). Going to work doing the takeoff then hitting the autopilot at 300AGL say a few words on the radio then climb to FL370 and wait until your ready to go down. Then you have the pleasure of watching it land itself. Not my idea of “flying”.
OK, You get a good pay (eventually) but why did you get into flying in the first place? Was it the pay, the lifestyle or the cool suit? I wanted a challenge, and I found it.
Cheers
If you want a challenge…. Ask Spernkey for a job.
OK, You get a good pay (eventually) but why did you get into flying in the first place? Was it the pay, the lifestyle or the cool suit? I wanted a challenge, and I found it.
Cheers
If you want a challenge…. Ask Spernkey for a job.
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C'mon I Reason...
How do you know? I find a lot of you a little Black and White on this...I've done the bush flying, and now work for the "Big Show"....
One of the companies I worked for involved fliying an MD-80 into Cuba n the middle of the night, no FMS, or even GPS sometimes.Lots of hand-flying...Non precision approaches. Flying well in bad weather is a great challenge...
Having done the flying from bush to commuter to airline to overseas in a 74, I can say it was all fun. Loved every minute., including all the "firsts" First Left seat, first "blow Job" (jet)...What a riot
I still rent a Piper whenever I feel the urge, and thats a blast too...
So to assume you would hate something you've never tried reeks of monotony...what a boring life..
How do you know? I find a lot of you a little Black and White on this...I've done the bush flying, and now work for the "Big Show"....
One of the companies I worked for involved fliying an MD-80 into Cuba n the middle of the night, no FMS, or even GPS sometimes.Lots of hand-flying...Non precision approaches. Flying well in bad weather is a great challenge...
Having done the flying from bush to commuter to airline to overseas in a 74, I can say it was all fun. Loved every minute., including all the "firsts" First Left seat, first "blow Job" (jet)...What a riot
I still rent a Piper whenever I feel the urge, and thats a blast too...
So to assume you would hate something you've never tried reeks of monotony...what a boring life..
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DRKRUM. I’m sure working your way up to the big time you have seen a lot of great flying just as you mentioned. Do you think you would be as good of a pilot as you are if you stepped right out of school and landed a job in a new 737? Would you be happy only flying a computer your whole career on scheduled runs?
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I certainly wouldn't mind a big jet job...staright away....really the in between stuff is a complete and utter hassle....when all we want really is to be on that big 737/767/777/747 etc etc ...
I feel so worried about the uncertainties of working in GA that if an airline came along tonight and offered me a jet job, of course I'd take it !
I feel so worried about the uncertainties of working in GA that if an airline came along tonight and offered me a jet job, of course I'd take it !
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Why is it everyones goal to fly a big jet ??
The view.
Getting out of England, if only for a short while, to feel some sun on your back during the ever so long winter months.
To learn from your Captains.
The security of multi-crew.
To meet new colleagues each day.
Someone else to file your flight plan
15 mile finals...
Getting out of England, if only for a short while, to feel some sun on your back during the ever so long winter months.
To learn from your Captains.
The security of multi-crew.
To meet new colleagues each day.
Someone else to file your flight plan
15 mile finals...
Last edited by Craggenmore; 4th Jun 2006 at 09:46.