Criminal Conviction A Problem?
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ANOTHER DUI POST!!! but with a twist.
I know it can be frustrating, and you guys here in particular, get mardy with duplicate posts, so apologies if this has been addressed previously, but I HAVE sifted through about 80% of the posts in this thread, as well as performing multiple forum searches to see if I could attain the information I'm after, but to little success as of yet...
1. I read in this thread (somewhere), that the current JAA Class 1 medical examination or application requires you to disclose DUI convictions, I was just wondering if somebody clued up on this could offer me advice on this as its not much change from £500 notes nowadays and I'm not interested in 'wasting' that kind of money...
2. By the same token, relating to DUI, how much is this likely to effect the M1 training visa for the US. I plan to train JAA in the States due to the significant value it represents, but again, am concerned with my previous misdemeanour. Again not sure if this is of relevance, but I do currently hold a C1/D (transit) US Visa, as I went to work on a cruise ship after finishing University, and this doesn't expire 'till 2017, but this was granted before my DUI conviction.
It is nowhere near spent under the rehabilitation act, and I'm well aware of the 10 year active endorsement and 11 year visibility on my licence.
* Just a point that people in similar situations to me might be interested to hear though, I completed the drink driving rehabilitation course that is offered in my area that reduced my 20 month ban to 15 and am now considered a low risk driver to insurance companies!!!
1. I read in this thread (somewhere), that the current JAA Class 1 medical examination or application requires you to disclose DUI convictions, I was just wondering if somebody clued up on this could offer me advice on this as its not much change from £500 notes nowadays and I'm not interested in 'wasting' that kind of money...
2. By the same token, relating to DUI, how much is this likely to effect the M1 training visa for the US. I plan to train JAA in the States due to the significant value it represents, but again, am concerned with my previous misdemeanour. Again not sure if this is of relevance, but I do currently hold a C1/D (transit) US Visa, as I went to work on a cruise ship after finishing University, and this doesn't expire 'till 2017, but this was granted before my DUI conviction.
It is nowhere near spent under the rehabilitation act, and I'm well aware of the 10 year active endorsement and 11 year visibility on my licence.
* Just a point that people in similar situations to me might be interested to hear though, I completed the drink driving rehabilitation course that is offered in my area that reduced my 20 month ban to 15 and am now considered a low risk driver to insurance companies!!!
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Thanks scroggs...must have missed it! After further investigation, I have managed to find some additional information, on 'weeding' or more commonly known today, as 'stepping down' of criminal convictions on the PNC and the relevance of this additional police information, when Standard or Enhanced CRB checks are requested. Currently, Airlines require a basic disclosure but there is absolutely no guarantee that this will remain the case!!!
For those people who are concerned with regards to their convictions, regardless of whether they are spent or unspent and any other police information on the PNC, the additional links may be of use-
http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/news....pdf?version=1
http://www.knowledgenetwork.gov.uk/H...e?OpenDocument
To clarify....
Disclosures - Basic - do not show spent convictions, providing the conviction/s occurred more than five years ago.
Standard - Show spent and unspent convictions
Enhanced - Show spent and unspent convictions and any other relevant (to the occupation) police information from the PNC.
Currently, Aviation is not one of the professions that is exempt from the Rehabilitation of Offenders act and so currently, a Basic Disclosure is required.
However, some Airlines if not all, may decide in the future, due to national security, Standard or Enhanced Disclosures will be the minimum requirement for new and/or existing employees within the Aviation Profession.
If the Airline is exempt from the RoA, then you need to state your convictions. Do not lie.
The information above, is entirely of my own interpretation, and the links above, should help some people on here.
Hope this helps
For those people who are concerned with regards to their convictions, regardless of whether they are spent or unspent and any other police information on the PNC, the additional links may be of use-
http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/news....pdf?version=1
http://www.knowledgenetwork.gov.uk/H...e?OpenDocument
To clarify....
Disclosures - Basic - do not show spent convictions, providing the conviction/s occurred more than five years ago.
Standard - Show spent and unspent convictions
Enhanced - Show spent and unspent convictions and any other relevant (to the occupation) police information from the PNC.
Currently, Aviation is not one of the professions that is exempt from the Rehabilitation of Offenders act and so currently, a Basic Disclosure is required.
However, some Airlines if not all, may decide in the future, due to national security, Standard or Enhanced Disclosures will be the minimum requirement for new and/or existing employees within the Aviation Profession.
If the Airline is exempt from the RoA, then you need to state your convictions. Do not lie.
The information above, is entirely of my own interpretation, and the links above, should help some people on here.
Hope this helps
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I need some advice. Im about to apply for a US crew visa. Now on the form it says "Have you ever been arrested or convicted for any offense, even though subject of a pardon, amnesty or other similar legal action?"
Last year i was arrested for drink driving as i was over by 6 units but then at the police station when they did the official breath test it was 31 meaning i was under, therefore i was de-arrested and free to go. Should i declare this on the US visa form? Would this information be on the PNC and more importantly available to the US embassy if they were to do a background check? I have just sent off for a subject access report.
Last year i was arrested for drink driving as i was over by 6 units but then at the police station when they did the official breath test it was 31 meaning i was under, therefore i was de-arrested and free to go. Should i declare this on the US visa form? Would this information be on the PNC and more importantly available to the US embassy if they were to do a background check? I have just sent off for a subject access report.
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I'm no lawyer but I do have a decent understanding, and unfortunately I do have some familiarity with your situation (although not quite as much as I'd have liked!!!)
The term you use here that I must turn your attention back to is this lovely word "de-arrested". Now whatever you've read, been told or heard - you were not "de-arrested", you were very much arrested (on suspicion of driving/ attempting to drive with more than 80mg alcohol per 100ml blood), the Police were unable to provide sufficient and acceptable evidence to charge you and refer you to a magistrates court, and therefore had to release you without charge (hats off to your liver for getting shut of the additional 6 units before they got you to the station - was it a long drive?!?!) ***Did they take prints and DNA - just out of personal interest???
So in response to the essential query of your post, no one can tell you definitively either way what to declare on your Visa form, that decision will rest ultimately with you, but one thing is for sure, if the US Embassy does do a check then I'm afraid it will (as in should) show up on the Police database. How long an arrest without charge remains on the PNC I'm not entirely sure but from what I gather any information on the PNC can be held indefinately - if this is wrong someone please correct me!
My advice would be to declare it, and I'd speculate that, due to the specific circumstances of your case, there is an 85% chance of you getting your Visa without hearing anything of it. If you do hear of it, and it is proving a sticking point, I'd suggest you have MASSIVE scope for an appeal that any two-bit emmigration lawyer could handle in a fairly straight forward manner, with delay being the main inconvenience. Lets be honest, there are a number of indicative factors that suggest our cousins across the pond don't take DUI as seriously as ourselves (Their president being a convicted DD, the "Walk straight along this straight line painted on the floor in front of you, as opposed to roadside breathalysers)
If this is the only thing you've ever done wrong, then like I say (hopefully not building you up too much) I think you'll have no problems at all. I would suggest though that if you do have other history spent or unspent in terms of rehab of offenders, I'd declare it all.
*It maybe worth getting some professional advice before you go any further if funds permit, I'm sure it would only be about £100 tops to see a a specialist immigration/emmigration solicitor about this anyhow, which isn't OTT for peace of mind.
Whatever you do decide good luck and keep me/us posted for interests sake
The term you use here that I must turn your attention back to is this lovely word "de-arrested". Now whatever you've read, been told or heard - you were not "de-arrested", you were very much arrested (on suspicion of driving/ attempting to drive with more than 80mg alcohol per 100ml blood), the Police were unable to provide sufficient and acceptable evidence to charge you and refer you to a magistrates court, and therefore had to release you without charge (hats off to your liver for getting shut of the additional 6 units before they got you to the station - was it a long drive?!?!) ***Did they take prints and DNA - just out of personal interest???
So in response to the essential query of your post, no one can tell you definitively either way what to declare on your Visa form, that decision will rest ultimately with you, but one thing is for sure, if the US Embassy does do a check then I'm afraid it will (as in should) show up on the Police database. How long an arrest without charge remains on the PNC I'm not entirely sure but from what I gather any information on the PNC can be held indefinately - if this is wrong someone please correct me!
My advice would be to declare it, and I'd speculate that, due to the specific circumstances of your case, there is an 85% chance of you getting your Visa without hearing anything of it. If you do hear of it, and it is proving a sticking point, I'd suggest you have MASSIVE scope for an appeal that any two-bit emmigration lawyer could handle in a fairly straight forward manner, with delay being the main inconvenience. Lets be honest, there are a number of indicative factors that suggest our cousins across the pond don't take DUI as seriously as ourselves (Their president being a convicted DD, the "Walk straight along this straight line painted on the floor in front of you, as opposed to roadside breathalysers)
If this is the only thing you've ever done wrong, then like I say (hopefully not building you up too much) I think you'll have no problems at all. I would suggest though that if you do have other history spent or unspent in terms of rehab of offenders, I'd declare it all.
*It maybe worth getting some professional advice before you go any further if funds permit, I'm sure it would only be about £100 tops to see a a specialist immigration/emmigration solicitor about this anyhow, which isn't OTT for peace of mind.
Whatever you do decide good luck and keep me/us posted for interests sake
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Hey StanSayz, thanks for the advice....well ive applied for a subject access report so that should tell me what info there is about me on the PNC...No DNA was taken from me....im not sure about finger prints though i can't really remember. To be honest when i was arrested it took about 40 mins to get to the station in which time i had come down by 6 units and this is the funny bit...before i even got in the police van the officer said 'oh you'll be fine'!!!!! I think i had to be arrested because at the time i was over the limit! I spoke to a friend of mine earlier who asked her policeman friend and he said that for it to go on the PNC it has to be a 'real' arrest with a charge that results in a caution or conviction...if your arrested and then released the record is scrapped???....but we shall see what my subject access report says....in regards to the US embassy if they were to do a check which is apparently performed by the home office/scotland yard on their behalf wouldn't they only be looking for cautions or convictions/criminal records? Im sure arrests wouldnt be disclosed to them??
Last edited by jazzy75; 27th Jan 2007 at 20:12.
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jazzy and for thers who are concerned with regards to their convictions, regardless of whether they are spent or unspent and any other police information on the PNC, the additional links may be of use-
http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/news....pdf?version=1
http://www.knowledgenetwork.gov.uk/H...e?OpenDocument
The information you require is in the link.
http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/news....pdf?version=1
http://www.knowledgenetwork.gov.uk/H...e?OpenDocument
The information you require is in the link.
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drink driving
Hi there,
I recently got caught drink driving. I'd had a sleep, thought I was okay but apparently not. Probably going to get banned for around 18months. I can get 1/4 of this off by doing a rehabilitation course.
I was wondering if it was worthwhile applying to FTOs with this hanging over me or should I wait until the ban has passed?
I know it was stupid, lost my girlfirend, driving license and a few hundred quid over it so believe me I know it was stupid. I don't need any feedback on that front though I'm sure I'll get some.
Thanks for any views,
bfg
I recently got caught drink driving. I'd had a sleep, thought I was okay but apparently not. Probably going to get banned for around 18months. I can get 1/4 of this off by doing a rehabilitation course.
I was wondering if it was worthwhile applying to FTOs with this hanging over me or should I wait until the ban has passed?
I know it was stupid, lost my girlfirend, driving license and a few hundred quid over it so believe me I know it was stupid. I don't need any feedback on that front though I'm sure I'll get some.
Thanks for any views,
bfg
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I am sure everybody has done something stupid that they regret, and that will hopefully just give some hard learned lessons. You would not be the first in this industry that have had an "ups" with alcohol and probably not the last either.
A good friend of mine did something similar to you and lost the drivers license for several years, and on top of that CAA decided to take his flying license as well. The guy was (is) a really good pilot and he just continued to fight, and now as he got his flying license back, he managed to land a job flying Bizzjets, even though his policerecord is not cleared yet.
I will suggest that you apply to the FTO you wish to join, and if they are too high on their horses to take you, then find someone else. Loosing your license because you have had a "down" period doesn't make you an alcoholic, and therefore I can see no excuse why you should not be able to start training (assuming that is what you are looking for??).
I don't know about the legal issues though, but if you don't fight you won't win
Never give up, and good luck
A good friend of mine did something similar to you and lost the drivers license for several years, and on top of that CAA decided to take his flying license as well. The guy was (is) a really good pilot and he just continued to fight, and now as he got his flying license back, he managed to land a job flying Bizzjets, even though his policerecord is not cleared yet.
I will suggest that you apply to the FTO you wish to join, and if they are too high on their horses to take you, then find someone else. Loosing your license because you have had a "down" period doesn't make you an alcoholic, and therefore I can see no excuse why you should not be able to start training (assuming that is what you are looking for??).
I don't know about the legal issues though, but if you don't fight you won't win
Never give up, and good luck
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bfg01,
Advice from someone who has hired and conducted interviews. Go for the rehab course to get it reduced, and wait till it is in the past. Dont ever go to an interview with something like this hanging over you, alot of interview boards will dismiss your resume on a pending action, without you getting the chance to explain, but not one in your history. Its done its over, just try to do everything you can to make it better. Good luck.
Advice from someone who has hired and conducted interviews. Go for the rehab course to get it reduced, and wait till it is in the past. Dont ever go to an interview with something like this hanging over you, alot of interview boards will dismiss your resume on a pending action, without you getting the chance to explain, but not one in your history. Its done its over, just try to do everything you can to make it better. Good luck.
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When you 'apply' to an FTO, you are offering them the opportunity to take several tens of thousands of pounds off your hands. Believe me, they won't give a damn about any conviction you have short of flying into tall buildings; they just want your money.
When it comes to applying people who are going to pay you, however, it's a different matter. Once you have served your ban, regained your licence and had time to show that you've learned some lessons, you'll be fine - but you will have to reveal your conviction for several years to come on each and every application. Until then, you'll be regarded as an irresponsible individual who's not ready to be trusted. As the ban you're expecting and your training are about the same length, that shouldn't really be too much of a problem.
As for getting an airside pass, drink-driving is not an offence that would affect that, under current rules.
Scroggs
When it comes to applying people who are going to pay you, however, it's a different matter. Once you have served your ban, regained your licence and had time to show that you've learned some lessons, you'll be fine - but you will have to reveal your conviction for several years to come on each and every application. Until then, you'll be regarded as an irresponsible individual who's not ready to be trusted. As the ban you're expecting and your training are about the same length, that shouldn't really be too much of a problem.
As for getting an airside pass, drink-driving is not an offence that would affect that, under current rules.
Scroggs
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Thanks for the advice guys, and sorry Scroggs, did a quick search but didn't find this thread. I might email a couple of the biger FTOs and see what they reckon about it, annonymously, and see what I think is best. Probably just have to leave it for a while I think.
Thanks again,
bfg
Thanks again,
bfg
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Drink Driving
Drink Driving has been known not to be a problem dependent on the airline, I can assure you (without naming them) of an individual who is working for an airline with just such a recent conviction. Driving whilst disqualified is also a charge that has been overlooked, even though it carries a possible sentence!
Regards
Rossco
Regards
Rossco
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DD is an offence under the road traffic act (driving related offence), its not a criminal conviction. It won't hurt your DofT standings for an air side pass, the only implications this has is during your employment process were most airlines ask candidates to declare driving offences. If you list you have DD, your chances of getting that job are next to nothing. Don't declare it and you've already breached the declaration (sackable offence).
Once an offence is considered spent you don't have to declare it.
Once an offence is considered spent you don't have to declare it.
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Three off-topic posts deleted.
If you want to discuss the rights and wrongs of penalties for DD convictions, go to Jet Blast or to another board entirely. This forum is for aviation topics relevent to Wannabes, and this topic is about the aviation ramifications of having a conviction (not necessarily criminal). For those who need the information, it's already here in this thread. If you have nothing useful to add, don't add anything.
Scroggs
If you want to discuss the rights and wrongs of penalties for DD convictions, go to Jet Blast or to another board entirely. This forum is for aviation topics relevent to Wannabes, and this topic is about the aviation ramifications of having a conviction (not necessarily criminal). For those who need the information, it's already here in this thread. If you have nothing useful to add, don't add anything.
Scroggs
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Rangas - doubtful. A good friend of mine had the same situation within the UK, and has not had a problem gaining a CAA licence since, and is now flying commercially.
As long as you recognise it was silly...
As long as you recognise it was silly...
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please help!
Recently a friend of mine who has recently qualified (FATPL) decided with a group of friends to go and have a look at the out of service 747 at the topgear site (Dunsfold Park).
not thinking it was a big deal hopped the fence and subsequently got startled by security and chased of the site. The police were called and he got arrested.
He owned up and admitted at interview thinking it was a harmless act, thinking a slap on the wrist and on your way would result.
As it turns out his buddy has be charged and cautioned under the terrorism act!!(trespass on an aerodrome)
My friend has yet to be called back. it is highly lightly the same caution will result. As the anti terrorism act is a disqualifying offense he is extremely worried and doesn't know whether to accept the caution and hope it is not flagged on the disclosure or to not accept and hope the case does not get to Court.
A very silly but harmless idea has turned into something very serious.
he has no previous run-ins with the police.
any information or opinions would be well received.
not thinking it was a big deal hopped the fence and subsequently got startled by security and chased of the site. The police were called and he got arrested.
He owned up and admitted at interview thinking it was a harmless act, thinking a slap on the wrist and on your way would result.
As it turns out his buddy has be charged and cautioned under the terrorism act!!(trespass on an aerodrome)
My friend has yet to be called back. it is highly lightly the same caution will result. As the anti terrorism act is a disqualifying offense he is extremely worried and doesn't know whether to accept the caution and hope it is not flagged on the disclosure or to not accept and hope the case does not get to Court.
A very silly but harmless idea has turned into something very serious.
he has no previous run-ins with the police.
any information or opinions would be well received.
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If he accepts a caution, then he will have a caution under the terrorism act. Whether that will be flagged on disclosure, I don't know.
I personally wouldn't, and would be more willing to take it to court. Ultimately, in court, you are given the opportunity to explain yourself, and explain your circumstances, all will go towards what the judge decides. No reasonable judge would knowingly ruin a guys career for the sake of a lark. I know one personally, and from what I understand, impact on the individuals future play a MASSIVE part, when doling out punishments.
There's also the possibility of not guilty for ANYTHING... depending on the number of charges brought against him, trespass etc.
I wouldn't worry, if its as innocent as it seems, which I'm sure it is..
Next time, tell him - when approached by security when doing something harmless which he thinks is legal/knows no better, Don't do a runner!
I personally wouldn't, and would be more willing to take it to court. Ultimately, in court, you are given the opportunity to explain yourself, and explain your circumstances, all will go towards what the judge decides. No reasonable judge would knowingly ruin a guys career for the sake of a lark. I know one personally, and from what I understand, impact on the individuals future play a MASSIVE part, when doling out punishments.
There's also the possibility of not guilty for ANYTHING... depending on the number of charges brought against him, trespass etc.
I wouldn't worry, if its as innocent as it seems, which I'm sure it is..
Next time, tell him - when approached by security when doing something harmless which he thinks is legal/knows no better, Don't do a runner!
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Andy, Tell your mate to visit a local branch http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/. If they can't provide the information needed (they won't guess), they will ensure that your mate is in contact with the most appropriate solicitor to provide advice for the problem. The advice will not only be correct but will probably be free. They have saved me stacks of cash and stress in the past!