Sick of it!!!!!!!!
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Sick of it!!!!!!!!
hello everybody,
Today i got AGAIN 2 letters back of a 2 companies telling me that they were not looking for pilots and that they were not interested. I'm really sick of it, always receiving the bad news. How can i gain experience if nobody gives me the chance??? These answers are giving me a huge frustration and i'm really considering to turn my back to the aviation.
grtz
Today i got AGAIN 2 letters back of a 2 companies telling me that they were not looking for pilots and that they were not interested. I'm really sick of it, always receiving the bad news. How can i gain experience if nobody gives me the chance??? These answers are giving me a huge frustration and i'm really considering to turn my back to the aviation.
grtz
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welcome in the club!!!.
if I can give you some advices, save your stamps and apply only on line.
I am in this catch 22 since years now, and despite my ex experience as a pilot, I do not find any flying job and I will be forced to do something else.
this job is not a job anymore, but a hobby for rich kids.
how can someone pay a fortune to a company and "work" for them?
we have worked hard for our license, and this is the way our country treat us... thank you!!!!
it is disgusting to ear some B767 captain can not get a job cuz the do not have 500 on type (b737).
it is scandalous to see that some airlines are just interested by rich kids...
no need to write more, ...
if I can give you some advices, save your stamps and apply only on line.
I am in this catch 22 since years now, and despite my ex experience as a pilot, I do not find any flying job and I will be forced to do something else.
this job is not a job anymore, but a hobby for rich kids.
how can someone pay a fortune to a company and "work" for them?
we have worked hard for our license, and this is the way our country treat us... thank you!!!!
it is disgusting to ear some B767 captain can not get a job cuz the do not have 500 on type (b737).
it is scandalous to see that some airlines are just interested by rich kids...
no need to write more, ...
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To try and make you feel a bit better, Thomsonfly rejected me three times from one application?
1. With my Forename & Surname
2. With my Forename & middle name
3. With all of the above
Cannot employ me, but scrutinised my CV in great detail?
Good luck for the future, and keep at it!
YYZ
1. With my Forename & Surname
2. With my Forename & middle name
3. With all of the above
Cannot employ me, but scrutinised my CV in great detail?
Good luck for the future, and keep at it!
YYZ
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Today i got AGAIN 2 letters back of a 2 companies telling me that
If it's any help, try the new Vueling sponsorship for the A320. On the CAE website.
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hey
sorry to hear about that, its sucks I know, but just keep holding on, don't give up faith, just keep at it, keep smiling, and you WILL get there one day. Good luck with everything :-) Alex
sorry to hear about that, its sucks I know, but just keep holding on, don't give up faith, just keep at it, keep smiling, and you WILL get there one day. Good luck with everything :-) Alex
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just keep holding on, don't give up faith, just keep at it, keep smiling,
and you WILL get there one day
Let me put it this way: I know I'll get there but I can't be so sure about anyone else
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dboy. Your profile describes you as the holder of a CPL. There are any number of people who would love to be in your position.
If you are going to quit now maybe it's for the best, even after the first job it can be tough. Get it over and done with. Take a course in something easier.
Or instead of talking of turning your back on aviation how about spending some of that walking energy working out new ways to get a job?
A friend of mine used his rejection letters to wallpaper his toilet. He says it gives him so much satisfaction to see them when he arrives home from a tour.
If you are going to quit now maybe it's for the best, even after the first job it can be tough. Get it over and done with. Take a course in something easier.
Or instead of talking of turning your back on aviation how about spending some of that walking energy working out new ways to get a job?
A friend of mine used his rejection letters to wallpaper his toilet. He says it gives him so much satisfaction to see them when he arrives home from a tour.
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D Boy,
I think to be honest that there are an awful lot of us who are 'sick of it'. I am 37 with just over 400 hrs. I am a licensed Aircraft Engineer employed on the Airbus/Boeing fleets at Stansted, and even with all my contacts i cannot even get an interview.
I speak to the crew everyday, and the flight deck are mainly from different countries, who are whinging and moaning about working long hours and how cold and expensive Britain is.
Now that I am 37 my options are so limited, because of companies like CTC having cut off age requirements, that I am either going to have spend another £20 K on a type rating or just keep applying to companies like Eastern and VLM, who start paying £18K for a F/O position. That's a £12K drop in income for me considering I have a mortgage,wife, and two young children.
Dilemma? You bet...!
I just wish I could turn the clocks back and have invested my £40K into a sensible investment. I have spoken to everybody from the Airlines,IPA,Balpa,Training Captains, HR Dept, you get the idea, and to be honest they just don't have the answer.
I am not asking for a job on a BA 777 or a job with Virgin flying there new A380's when they are delivered. The bottom line is the people with the most money wins. It's that simple! It's the Chelsea scenario...they just buy success. That's my analogy!
I don't want a pat on the back or sympathy, I just want a chance to show these companies that I'm quite an employable bloke, who is willing to do his best. I am not Gods gift to aviation, but I see myself as a responsible and hard working individual.
One thing that I have decided on is this...I am not spending another penny on flying. It's simple I can't afford it. I spent nearly £1000 on my IR renewal in February and all for what.
By the way I have sent over 1300 CV's to companies since September 2003 and I have had 1 interview with Now Airlines who went bust before they got off the ground literally.
I have phoned,emailed,posted and knocked on doors. Sent flowers, thank you cards and had personal recommendations from people high in the company and still... nothing.
I have got to the point that every time I go to work I try to avoid the Pilots who know me, because they keep asking me how I am getting along with the job hunting and I feel embarrassed to keep telling them the same thing week in week out. They are just being polite but they must think that I am bloody useless.
The question we are all asking ourselves is this...what do we do next? When you find out the answer to that question let me know!
I think to be honest that there are an awful lot of us who are 'sick of it'. I am 37 with just over 400 hrs. I am a licensed Aircraft Engineer employed on the Airbus/Boeing fleets at Stansted, and even with all my contacts i cannot even get an interview.
I speak to the crew everyday, and the flight deck are mainly from different countries, who are whinging and moaning about working long hours and how cold and expensive Britain is.
Now that I am 37 my options are so limited, because of companies like CTC having cut off age requirements, that I am either going to have spend another £20 K on a type rating or just keep applying to companies like Eastern and VLM, who start paying £18K for a F/O position. That's a £12K drop in income for me considering I have a mortgage,wife, and two young children.
Dilemma? You bet...!
I just wish I could turn the clocks back and have invested my £40K into a sensible investment. I have spoken to everybody from the Airlines,IPA,Balpa,Training Captains, HR Dept, you get the idea, and to be honest they just don't have the answer.
I am not asking for a job on a BA 777 or a job with Virgin flying there new A380's when they are delivered. The bottom line is the people with the most money wins. It's that simple! It's the Chelsea scenario...they just buy success. That's my analogy!
I don't want a pat on the back or sympathy, I just want a chance to show these companies that I'm quite an employable bloke, who is willing to do his best. I am not Gods gift to aviation, but I see myself as a responsible and hard working individual.
One thing that I have decided on is this...I am not spending another penny on flying. It's simple I can't afford it. I spent nearly £1000 on my IR renewal in February and all for what.
By the way I have sent over 1300 CV's to companies since September 2003 and I have had 1 interview with Now Airlines who went bust before they got off the ground literally.
I have phoned,emailed,posted and knocked on doors. Sent flowers, thank you cards and had personal recommendations from people high in the company and still... nothing.
I have got to the point that every time I go to work I try to avoid the Pilots who know me, because they keep asking me how I am getting along with the job hunting and I feel embarrassed to keep telling them the same thing week in week out. They are just being polite but they must think that I am bloody useless.
The question we are all asking ourselves is this...what do we do next? When you find out the answer to that question let me know!
Unfortunately, and unfairly, I think luck has a huge amount to do with it. Does your cv arrive the week that recruiting starts? Does your background fit in wth whatever prejudices the airline has about modular/integrated/instructors/older/younger or female pilots? Do you know someone who can introduce you to the right people?
Been said before but staying current and perserverence are the two qualities that are most likely to win you the first job. Good luck one and all.
PS I'd rather be lucky than good anyday.
Been said before but staying current and perserverence are the two qualities that are most likely to win you the first job. Good luck one and all.
PS I'd rather be lucky than good anyday.
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Solo Si
I dont think I could have put better myself. After several hundred cvs posted out , regular updates online to companies, I too agree with you that this is just a "HOW DEEP ARE YOUR POCKETS" industry.
Mid thirties and over 2000 hours and 200 hours Jet time P1 multi crew and efis over 7 tonnes, and 1 interview in over 3 years. The company didnt even bother contacting those who failed to make the grade. Soon I have to re+new my IR. At a possible cost of over 3000 grand I think its time to say enough is enough.
Boy i wish i could turn the clock back myself....
Mr W
I dont think I could have put better myself. After several hundred cvs posted out , regular updates online to companies, I too agree with you that this is just a "HOW DEEP ARE YOUR POCKETS" industry.
Mid thirties and over 2000 hours and 200 hours Jet time P1 multi crew and efis over 7 tonnes, and 1 interview in over 3 years. The company didnt even bother contacting those who failed to make the grade. Soon I have to re+new my IR. At a possible cost of over 3000 grand I think its time to say enough is enough.
Boy i wish i could turn the clock back myself....
Mr W
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Dear all,
Flintstone=> the people who want to be in my position are mostly outsiders who don't have a clue about aviation.
Solo si=>if i were u don't quit your engineering job!!! In a way i'm little bit jealous. You have a good decent job, a wife, kids a house etc. Don't throw it away plz!!!! I'm 29 years old, still living with my parents, no girlfriend, having a job in the local supermarket etc all for the sake of this bloody little paper which cost me about 75.000eur. I want to start a life!!! If i meet people of my own age i realize i didn't achieved anything in life.
I'm not prepared to pay for a flying job. Human Resources have to judge me on my qualities and not on my wallet.
But if you r really keen to fly and to get a job: well my best advice is indeed keep your ir valid and keep on applying. I admire your determination (1300 cv's!!!!
) But paying for your type before u even know u have a job is too risky i think.
I wish you the best for your future!!!
Ham Phisted=> i agree that u have to stay current. But always spending money on flying without any result makes me think.
best regards all
Flintstone=> the people who want to be in my position are mostly outsiders who don't have a clue about aviation.
Solo si=>if i were u don't quit your engineering job!!! In a way i'm little bit jealous. You have a good decent job, a wife, kids a house etc. Don't throw it away plz!!!! I'm 29 years old, still living with my parents, no girlfriend, having a job in the local supermarket etc all for the sake of this bloody little paper which cost me about 75.000eur. I want to start a life!!! If i meet people of my own age i realize i didn't achieved anything in life.
I'm not prepared to pay for a flying job. Human Resources have to judge me on my qualities and not on my wallet.
But if you r really keen to fly and to get a job: well my best advice is indeed keep your ir valid and keep on applying. I admire your determination (1300 cv's!!!!
) But paying for your type before u even know u have a job is too risky i think.I wish you the best for your future!!!
Ham Phisted=> i agree that u have to stay current. But always spending money on flying without any result makes me think.
best regards all
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All of what you say is very true. There are big big downs, but there are ups too. I know personally of 2 guys who were mid 30's with not much more flying experience than training hours, and have both got jobs without paying out for type ratings and the like. One has been flying for 9 months or so now, and the other is doing his type rating as we speak. I feed off that to give me the motivation to carry on. I am in the same boat as you guys, sending CVs out to everyone and anyone. I also have the wife and 2 kids too. The thing is i know all to well that when im retired and sitting there thinking about my life, i would be gutted if my thought was 'I really wish i had stuck at the airline thing'. Try and find the inspiration to carry on guys!!
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I know a friend who have been hired on jet after his aviation school( family connection).
and these few chaps who have a flying job tell me that the situation is crazy. they receive many emails from friends asking them for a job.
to people asking me, If I have found a job, please stop to ask!
many people are actually upset and it is good to ear that I am not the only one in this bad situation! ..., this aviation is not a life!
2 years ago, when i was converting my license to JAR, a lady came in my school, and I asked her how was the situation. She told me she was looking for a job since 1 year, and she had 1000h, she was very upset too.
Be a pimp!
and these few chaps who have a flying job tell me that the situation is crazy. they receive many emails from friends asking them for a job.
to people asking me, If I have found a job, please stop to ask!
many people are actually upset and it is good to ear that I am not the only one in this bad situation! ..., this aviation is not a life!
2 years ago, when i was converting my license to JAR, a lady came in my school, and I asked her how was the situation. She told me she was looking for a job since 1 year, and she had 1000h, she was very upset too.
Be a pimp!
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Hi
Just a question but has anyone asked BALPA what they are doing about this situation. Surely it is their responsibility to represent all pilots fairly. If they are not willing to do anything then maybe all us unemployed ATPL pilots should start to mention it to them. This market is awful, the rich boys get and the workers dont. Just seen an add for companies to give pilots to airlines for free, what next. I am not giving up, I am getting angry. It is time that we all spoke out. The airlines do read these pages, so let them know how we feel.
As a side issue there must be pilots out there who know reporters. I am sure the press would love to hear about stories of airlines taking on pilots for free and not paying them. Really good for public image. It is time that we highlight this situation.
Flying Paddy
Just a question but has anyone asked BALPA what they are doing about this situation. Surely it is their responsibility to represent all pilots fairly. If they are not willing to do anything then maybe all us unemployed ATPL pilots should start to mention it to them. This market is awful, the rich boys get and the workers dont. Just seen an add for companies to give pilots to airlines for free, what next. I am not giving up, I am getting angry. It is time that we all spoke out. The airlines do read these pages, so let them know how we feel.
As a side issue there must be pilots out there who know reporters. I am sure the press would love to hear about stories of airlines taking on pilots for free and not paying them. Really good for public image. It is time that we highlight this situation.
Flying Paddy
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I have to agree with FP. BALPA seem to do very little for guys looking for work. The information on the website for airline contacts and recruitment news is very poor, and does not eem to be updated on a regular basis, and since recieving copies of 'The Log' i have yet to see any article with reference to assisting pilots find positions. I think it would be fair to say BALPA is very much geared around pilots in positions with airlines, and not much thought at all going out to the guys who are quite literally doing everything they can to get a job. IPA do seem to work much harder at assisting the guys looking for work. Their vacancies and airline information is regularly updated.
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I know its a cliche reply but all I will say is KEEP ON TRYING, never give up and trust me it will happen in the end. I was like you always getting rejection letters but no matter how many rejections I got I kept on persisting.
These days I am on the 744 - Testament to show that if you keep on trying, giving it your best shot and never give up it will come to you in the end
Best of luck
These days I am on the 744 - Testament to show that if you keep on trying, giving it your best shot and never give up it will come to you in the end
Best of luck
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Keep trying. It took me 18 months from my IR to get a job with a UK airline.
As for BALPA helping out, not much chance of that ever happening. They are just happy to charge you the money every year for an Employment Conference. In which the airlines all confirm our worst fears..... need to have loads of cash and be integrated.
Try not to let it get you down, harder to do than to say I know. Keep positive.
Moku.
As for BALPA helping out, not much chance of that ever happening. They are just happy to charge you the money every year for an Employment Conference. In which the airlines all confirm our worst fears..... need to have loads of cash and be integrated.
Try not to let it get you down, harder to do than to say I know. Keep positive.
Moku.
Guys I know how you feel but just hang on in there!
I have 14,000 hrs, 9,000 on jet, B 737 and A320 - ten years training 2,000 sim instruction. Not flown big shiny jets for 10 years as I had to stop following a family bereavement although I have been in continuous flying practice since instructing etc.
Can I get a job?! Sent all the cvs etc. Got thru first stage with ThomsonFly but then they stalled at the Sim as I have "only flown light aircraft recently"!! Does that mean that I have forgotten how to fly a big one?! I am now working in the Railway Industry to keep body and soul together.
Much is placed on CRM in fight crew training. One has to ask whether the hirers for airlines are making best use of resources out there who are looking for jobs!
I think ageism is rife in the airline business now - they want the bright eyed bushy tailed guys with the shiny licence so they can programme them THEIR way! Any organisation benefits from the odd wild card and the fact that you guys cannot get a job at the moment is a reflection on the industry's attitude rather than your abilities.
Dont worry - the pendulum is swinging inexorably in our direction and when it does (very soon) the airlines will be begging us to join them - you see!
I have 14,000 hrs, 9,000 on jet, B 737 and A320 - ten years training 2,000 sim instruction. Not flown big shiny jets for 10 years as I had to stop following a family bereavement although I have been in continuous flying practice since instructing etc.
Can I get a job?! Sent all the cvs etc. Got thru first stage with ThomsonFly but then they stalled at the Sim as I have "only flown light aircraft recently"!! Does that mean that I have forgotten how to fly a big one?! I am now working in the Railway Industry to keep body and soul together.
Much is placed on CRM in fight crew training. One has to ask whether the hirers for airlines are making best use of resources out there who are looking for jobs!
I think ageism is rife in the airline business now - they want the bright eyed bushy tailed guys with the shiny licence so they can programme them THEIR way! Any organisation benefits from the odd wild card and the fact that you guys cannot get a job at the moment is a reflection on the industry's attitude rather than your abilities.
Dont worry - the pendulum is swinging inexorably in our direction and when it does (very soon) the airlines will be begging us to join them - you see!
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Just a question but has anyone asked BALPA what they are doing about this situation. Surely it is their responsibility to represent all pilots fairly. If they are not willing to do anything then maybe all us unemployed ATPL pilots should start to mention it to them. This market is awful, the rich boys get and the workers dont. Just seen an add for companies to give pilots to airlines for free, what next. I am not giving up, I am getting angry. It is time that we all spoke out. The airlines do read these pages, so let them know how we feel.
As a side issue there must be pilots out there who know reporters. I am sure the press would love to hear about stories of airlines taking on pilots for free and not paying them. Really good for public image. It is time that we highlight this situation.
As a side issue there must be pilots out there who know reporters. I am sure the press would love to hear about stories of airlines taking on pilots for free and not paying them. Really good for public image. It is time that we highlight this situation.
BALPA does lobby politicians about the training system in this country, but you can hardly hold BALPA responsible for the fact that there are many more people wanting flying jobs than there are jobs available! Or are you one of those that believes that because you have a licence you are owed a job?
You chose to spend £x,000s on your training; no one forced you - and no one enticed you with promises they didn't keep. You could just as easily spent the money on speculative legal or medical training, and still found yourself out of a job.
If you want to form some sort of pressure group of disenchanted, unemployed pilots of limited experience, please go ahead. It might make you feel better, but I doubt it'll make a lot of difference - you can't make companies create jobs they don't need! However, the experience of organising such a pressure group may in itself be useful to your job prospects!
Good luck!
Scroggs