The Ryanair pledge
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: london
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Ryanair pledge
I thought it may be nice for all Wannabes, fATPLs and those sympathetic to the plight of aviation to make a symbolic pledge of avoidance, not to work for Ryanair.
"I (say your name) pledge to heed the advice of seasoned aviators and cabin crew who have served Ryanair over the years and not fly for Ryanair. I will not sign up and pay for their type rating then get paid peanuts for six months.
I will not pay for cups of tea and water while working for a company that showed profits in excess of 201 million Euros at the end of last quarter.
I want to be a pilot not a slave "
There you go, wasnt hard was it?
Now all we have to do is keep our word and our brothers in bondage will be freed!
"I (say your name) pledge to heed the advice of seasoned aviators and cabin crew who have served Ryanair over the years and not fly for Ryanair. I will not sign up and pay for their type rating then get paid peanuts for six months.
I will not pay for cups of tea and water while working for a company that showed profits in excess of 201 million Euros at the end of last quarter.
I want to be a pilot not a slave "
There you go, wasnt hard was it?
Now all we have to do is keep our word and our brothers in bondage will be freed!
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great Idea Vlad...not!
If you ever get there Vlad, one thing a career in aviation will teach you is to think things through before you speak/act/jump. (delete as necessary). So you persuade all your Brit wannabes to boycott Ryanair.......... and leave all those lovely RH seats to your European brothers! Dear God man! bm
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with the inhaler.
Market is opening up. I just landed a jet job on a bigger machine than a 738, it cost me 0 pounds and I get paid full salary from the first day I drive into the training ground parking lot.
Fly turbo-props and smaller jets first and skip Ryan.
Tell O' Leary to pound sand.
Market is opening up. I just landed a jet job on a bigger machine than a 738, it cost me 0 pounds and I get paid full salary from the first day I drive into the training ground parking lot.
Fly turbo-props and smaller jets first and skip Ryan.
Tell O' Leary to pound sand.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Castle Donington
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi
I agree totally with what all of you guys are saying but the problem is I would almost sell my gran to get a job flying a jet. Being paid peanuts and having to even pay for a bottle of water would be nothing compared to the actual flying and building up experience I think. I know it is the wrong attitude to have towards the situation but what else can I do. It would mean I sit back whilst someone else jumps in and gains the experience.
I dont really want to work for Ryanair as much as the next person for the reasons laid out but having only 250hrs is there any other alternative? I have spent the last four months (other people a lot more)being told sorry no vacancies.
I am sure everyone can understand the situation a lot of us are in - Catch 22 and I think Mr O'Leary knows that
Appologies if i sound arrogant in any way, I dont mean to.
Thanks
I agree totally with what all of you guys are saying but the problem is I would almost sell my gran to get a job flying a jet. Being paid peanuts and having to even pay for a bottle of water would be nothing compared to the actual flying and building up experience I think. I know it is the wrong attitude to have towards the situation but what else can I do. It would mean I sit back whilst someone else jumps in and gains the experience.
I dont really want to work for Ryanair as much as the next person for the reasons laid out but having only 250hrs is there any other alternative? I have spent the last four months (other people a lot more)being told sorry no vacancies.I am sure everyone can understand the situation a lot of us are in - Catch 22 and I think Mr O'Leary knows that
Appologies if i sound arrogant in any way, I dont mean to.
Thanks
Guest
Posts: n/a
ritchyh, what you don't realise (I so hope you do) is that so many people on here are bitter unemployed idiots.
Many of which do have better things to do, however, some, given their attitudes, have nothing else to do.
I commend your attitude in thinking any job is better than no job. Experience is the best thing you can offer an employer, be it through your quals or through your RECENT time in the air.
Well done O'Leary, he's a businessman. Never forget that this industry is run by them, not pilots.
Many of which do have better things to do, however, some, given their attitudes, have nothing else to do.
I commend your attitude in thinking any job is better than no job. Experience is the best thing you can offer an employer, be it through your quals or through your RECENT time in the air.
Well done O'Leary, he's a businessman. Never forget that this industry is run by them, not pilots.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 762
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Qoute : "well done o'leary, he's a businessman".
iscajp:
Are you a businessman?
Don't congratulate somone for alledgedly:
1. Lowering moral of his employees.
2. Questionable customer service.
3. Trying to force pilots into slavery
4. Airing that he wants to get F/O's to work for free (some would be stupid enough to do it)
I wonder how much more profitable Ryanair would be if they had nothing but good national press.
Congratulaye a businessman who runs a a business that motivates, developes and pro-actively ebcourages it's workforce. Most experienced managers would agree this is a vital practise for long term success.
Looking at profit only, will eventually cause problems in one way or another.
iscajp:
Are you a businessman?
Don't congratulate somone for alledgedly:
1. Lowering moral of his employees.
2. Questionable customer service.
3. Trying to force pilots into slavery
4. Airing that he wants to get F/O's to work for free (some would be stupid enough to do it)
I wonder how much more profitable Ryanair would be if they had nothing but good national press.
Congratulaye a businessman who runs a a business that motivates, developes and pro-actively ebcourages it's workforce. Most experienced managers would agree this is a vital practise for long term success.
Looking at profit only, will eventually cause problems in one way or another.
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 955
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I reckon aviation is going the same way that manufacturing has gone; that is to say that aggressively reducing costs is seen as the only way forward.
This whole flying game relies on pilot subsidy, all MOL has done make the subsidy even greater from pilots to Ryanair - hes just doing whats right for his business
He will get away with it as long as fATPL supply exceeds demand i.e. forever
This trend for pilots to pay all their training costs has been made
possible by the low-interest rates that we pay (AT THE MOMENT)
If interest rates rise then he may have a problem - but that will probably coincide with a slowdown in demand anyway
This whole flying game relies on pilot subsidy, all MOL has done make the subsidy even greater from pilots to Ryanair - hes just doing whats right for his business
He will get away with it as long as fATPL supply exceeds demand i.e. forever
This trend for pilots to pay all their training costs has been made
possible by the low-interest rates that we pay (AT THE MOMENT)
If interest rates rise then he may have a problem - but that will probably coincide with a slowdown in demand anyway
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The dark side of the moon
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I blame the Customers!!!!!!!!!
If they did not put up with such poor travelling conditions, then Ryanair would have to change or go bust.
Just out of interest how does everyone feel about Easyjet's treatment of employees?
If they did not put up with such poor travelling conditions, then Ryanair would have to change or go bust.
Just out of interest how does everyone feel about Easyjet's treatment of employees?
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: England
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Travelling conditions? I dont understand that one at all. Conditions should be linked to expectation and cost. Travelling conditions at Ryanair far exceed my expectations as regards a 0.99p sector. I get a seat, which is more than i get on a train or bus sometimes and get to go a whole lot further..... Dont like it, dont fly them.
I also dont think that young, low houred pilots joining Ryanair are destroying the industry. Nor do I think that Ryanair management are destroying the industry. People can make choices and decide to join or not. For me personally, i would join. Have a hard working first year on brand new aircraft, for yes, little reward. But think of the prospects after that. A couple of years later, and command, more money and if you really dont like it, the option of leaving. Whats wrong with that? And, whats the difference between that and not working for 18 months to get the licence in the first place? I would rather take the Ryanair option than look back in ten years and have taken no option....
I also dont think that young, low houred pilots joining Ryanair are destroying the industry. Nor do I think that Ryanair management are destroying the industry. People can make choices and decide to join or not. For me personally, i would join. Have a hard working first year on brand new aircraft, for yes, little reward. But think of the prospects after that. A couple of years later, and command, more money and if you really dont like it, the option of leaving. Whats wrong with that? And, whats the difference between that and not working for 18 months to get the licence in the first place? I would rather take the Ryanair option than look back in ten years and have taken no option....
Guest
Posts: n/a
Ok Baronbuzz, do tell us where you plan to go after your year of slavery? Myself, and most of my colleagues, would love to know where the openings are for those of us who desperately want to leave. Because a) not exactly a whole host of 737 jobs out there, its all Airbus these days and b), far more importantly, other airlines don't want ryan pilots, as it makes ryan seem like a good training ground, which would only encourage more fools to fly with us for less and further undercut everyones elses salary.
Why are wannabes so incapable of listening to advice of those who have already walked the rocky path?
"I would almost sell my gran to get a job flying a jet"
"Being paid peanuts and having to even pay for a bottle of water would be nothing compared to the actual flying and building up experience "
Do you really have no idea how little time it takes for the flying novelty to wear off when you are getting treated like $hit? Do actually have any idea what its like to have to borrow money from the captain to buy dinner? Or live 3 to a caravan as thats all you can afford?
Why are wannabes so incapable of listening to advice of those who have already walked the rocky path?
"I would almost sell my gran to get a job flying a jet"
"Being paid peanuts and having to even pay for a bottle of water would be nothing compared to the actual flying and building up experience "
Do you really have no idea how little time it takes for the flying novelty to wear off when you are getting treated like $hit? Do actually have any idea what its like to have to borrow money from the captain to buy dinner? Or live 3 to a caravan as thats all you can afford?
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: England
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, the first year as the exception, I was under the impression that you started earning ok money year two onwards? Then further increases after that? I know that ALOT of people at Ryanair seem to hate it there, but there also seems to be alot of people that like it. The people that like it seem to just enjoy turning up, flying and going home again. Is this not the case?
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok I want to jump back into this. For all you young low time people listen clearly. There is more to life than starting your career on a 737, especially with a company who values a piece of coal more than you. If you have not noticed the industry in the UK is starting to boom and every indication is that it will continue to for the next while.
Take it from a guy who just spent 5 years climbing the ladder to get a good airline gig. I have flown almost every turbo type made worldwide and have had a BLAST doing it. Sure it was tough sometimes but I have left turbo prop flying with my head high and the feeling of accomplishment. If I was to do it all over again I would not change a thing.
Mikey O'Leary does not give a crap about anyone but himself. He makes millions of £$£$ of the backs of his people. Go the other route of climbing the ladder the old fashion way. Just look around. FLYBE short big time. Cityexpress feeling the pinch. In fact I would bet ALL turbo prop operators in the UK are feeling the pinch and need FO's badly. Get in while you can and enjoy the ride to the top.....
My two cents.
Oh and Mikey......pound sand you crooked runt.
Take it from a guy who just spent 5 years climbing the ladder to get a good airline gig. I have flown almost every turbo type made worldwide and have had a BLAST doing it. Sure it was tough sometimes but I have left turbo prop flying with my head high and the feeling of accomplishment. If I was to do it all over again I would not change a thing.
Mikey O'Leary does not give a crap about anyone but himself. He makes millions of £$£$ of the backs of his people. Go the other route of climbing the ladder the old fashion way. Just look around. FLYBE short big time. Cityexpress feeling the pinch. In fact I would bet ALL turbo prop operators in the UK are feeling the pinch and need FO's badly. Get in while you can and enjoy the ride to the top.....
My two cents.
Oh and Mikey......pound sand you crooked runt.
Guest
Posts: n/a
CanAV8R, you are talking sense here. What the hell is the rush onto a 737? Let me see, TP FO, earning MORE than FR FO from day 1, treated like a human or selling your soul to MOL?? No brainer really.
Baron buzz, moneys better in year 2, but one of my colleagues recently worked out that after taking into account all the costs associated with getting the FR job, including living costs while on the course and loss of income that a proper airline would pay you during training, it will take FNG's 4 years to break even. Yes, thats 4 years of free flying for MOL. Or you could spend that 4 years flying TP's and be in MUCH BETTER position jobwise with a decent airline afterwards, all the while getting reasonably paid and not spending all your money on KY jelly.
As CanAV8R points out, the market is improving in a big way. You don't need to work at Ryanair.
Baron buzz, moneys better in year 2, but one of my colleagues recently worked out that after taking into account all the costs associated with getting the FR job, including living costs while on the course and loss of income that a proper airline would pay you during training, it will take FNG's 4 years to break even. Yes, thats 4 years of free flying for MOL. Or you could spend that 4 years flying TP's and be in MUCH BETTER position jobwise with a decent airline afterwards, all the while getting reasonably paid and not spending all your money on KY jelly.
As CanAV8R points out, the market is improving in a big way. You don't need to work at Ryanair.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: london
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So there we have it, fellow Wannabes,
Straight from the trenches!
Ryanair FOs are telling you its bad,
Your common sense is telling you the numbers dont add up and you cant pay back loans and survive on whats being offered.
But still some of us are queueing up to join, because we love flying?
I dont love anything enough to do it for free in order to line someone elses pockets by subsidising his airline.
But there we are, just cant wait to get used and abused.
At the end of the day, we all have a choice and there will always be a MOL to take advantage of our lack of unity.
Thanks to all that responded, whatever side of the fence you were on.
Straight from the trenches!
Ryanair FOs are telling you its bad,
Your common sense is telling you the numbers dont add up and you cant pay back loans and survive on whats being offered.
But still some of us are queueing up to join, because we love flying?
I dont love anything enough to do it for free in order to line someone elses pockets by subsidising his airline.
But there we are, just cant wait to get used and abused.
At the end of the day, we all have a choice and there will always be a MOL to take advantage of our lack of unity.
Thanks to all that responded, whatever side of the fence you were on.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here is the way I look at it. I dont think I am alone!
No amount of people telling you not to do it is going to stop some guy flipping burgers who is offered a gig at Ryanair, HSBC willing to offer a further 23k, and the prospect of starting flying now rather than wait for the next job. Fact is, it is a job which is more than most have. What we have to remember is, you and everybody else there were told from Day 1 when you turned up at the interview from Mr. Dooney that Ryanair f*ck everyone.
I believe he invites anyone to leave who cant accept this.
Once the rose tinted specs have sunk a little, and you start line training I dont think your feet will touch the ground. 100 sectors average to complete line training (60 more than easy, no pay until then, might take 2 months) that's is basically, jut get on with it and if you dont keep up your chopped. That coupled with the fact you self position, have to feed and water yourself and arent getting what you previously were when you were flipping burgers.
I can assure you the fact you are doing the 'dream job' now doesn't seem so appealing.
That coupled with the fact you are an expendable commodity who will be fired if you step out of line, no questions see you in court.
From my very limited standpoint and I will relent the forum to those actually there, Ryanair seems to run on a fear culture, which promotes maximum efficiency from staff but zero loyalty and morale. I barely hear a Western European on the radio now at STN and most I speak to cant wait to move onto bigger and better things. But then you get a command right at the point you could/should jump ship, money is then good and you are trapped as you cant move as no-where else pays as well as Ryanair for the job you are doing and will probably mean a step back to the right seat., after you have started relying on the Captains wage at FR.
I know this golden nugget of being minted at FR is dangled, but I have yet to see it. Once all the sundries have been added up you may be better off, but at what cost?
I know it is nice to get that warm fuzzy feeling that your employer values you, but in the real world that doesn't happen, but when you are treated the way they seem to at FR it is either a testament to our professionalism as Aircrew (and I include Cabin Crew there!) or that we will not stand up and be counted. I'll leave you to decide on that one.
I work at easyJet and whilst they get things wrong, I dont get the feeling I am being shafted, and that management will actually listen to you without telling you to f*ck off afterwards (well not to your face
) even with the rostering 'murmurs' there seems to be developing at the moment they seem to listen and that goes a long way.
I dont think personally there is any easy solution to the problems at FR and as long as there are jobs for low hours guys, there will be takers. Only once they are in, further in debt and reliant on the fact they are down that path with FR on a 737 will the reality set in, that the job isn't really what they expected and the extra money they are 'earning' is paying off their type rating for the next 4 years. Trouble is it is hard to find someone on here or anywhere to say it is crap, as that would seem like they made a mistake, and no-one likes admitting that especially when it is your livelyhood we are talking about. I know some guys/girls love it there, they get paid well, on time and fly new aircraft interesting places. I would hazard a guess that in the majority these guys arent heavily reliant on the money and they havent got 30 years left in the industry and wondering where their next job is going to be.
Only my 5p worth, from a different grass which isn't any greener, just orange!
No amount of people telling you not to do it is going to stop some guy flipping burgers who is offered a gig at Ryanair, HSBC willing to offer a further 23k, and the prospect of starting flying now rather than wait for the next job. Fact is, it is a job which is more than most have. What we have to remember is, you and everybody else there were told from Day 1 when you turned up at the interview from Mr. Dooney that Ryanair f*ck everyone.
I believe he invites anyone to leave who cant accept this.
Once the rose tinted specs have sunk a little, and you start line training I dont think your feet will touch the ground. 100 sectors average to complete line training (60 more than easy, no pay until then, might take 2 months) that's is basically, jut get on with it and if you dont keep up your chopped. That coupled with the fact you self position, have to feed and water yourself and arent getting what you previously were when you were flipping burgers.
I can assure you the fact you are doing the 'dream job' now doesn't seem so appealing.
That coupled with the fact you are an expendable commodity who will be fired if you step out of line, no questions see you in court.
From my very limited standpoint and I will relent the forum to those actually there, Ryanair seems to run on a fear culture, which promotes maximum efficiency from staff but zero loyalty and morale. I barely hear a Western European on the radio now at STN and most I speak to cant wait to move onto bigger and better things. But then you get a command right at the point you could/should jump ship, money is then good and you are trapped as you cant move as no-where else pays as well as Ryanair for the job you are doing and will probably mean a step back to the right seat., after you have started relying on the Captains wage at FR.
I know this golden nugget of being minted at FR is dangled, but I have yet to see it. Once all the sundries have been added up you may be better off, but at what cost?
I know it is nice to get that warm fuzzy feeling that your employer values you, but in the real world that doesn't happen, but when you are treated the way they seem to at FR it is either a testament to our professionalism as Aircrew (and I include Cabin Crew there!) or that we will not stand up and be counted. I'll leave you to decide on that one.
I work at easyJet and whilst they get things wrong, I dont get the feeling I am being shafted, and that management will actually listen to you without telling you to f*ck off afterwards (well not to your face
) even with the rostering 'murmurs' there seems to be developing at the moment they seem to listen and that goes a long way.I dont think personally there is any easy solution to the problems at FR and as long as there are jobs for low hours guys, there will be takers. Only once they are in, further in debt and reliant on the fact they are down that path with FR on a 737 will the reality set in, that the job isn't really what they expected and the extra money they are 'earning' is paying off their type rating for the next 4 years. Trouble is it is hard to find someone on here or anywhere to say it is crap, as that would seem like they made a mistake, and no-one likes admitting that especially when it is your livelyhood we are talking about. I know some guys/girls love it there, they get paid well, on time and fly new aircraft interesting places. I would hazard a guess that in the majority these guys arent heavily reliant on the money and they havent got 30 years left in the industry and wondering where their next job is going to be.
Only my 5p worth, from a different grass which isn't any greener, just orange!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Im half way through my training and working extremely hard. There is no way I am going to let Ryanair be the end result of this. No way.
Il sign up to this pledge. I refuse to work for them. Besides, Im confident I can get another job elsewhere, even if it takes longer.
Ryanair =
Il sign up to this pledge. I refuse to work for them. Besides, Im confident I can get another job elsewhere, even if it takes longer.
Ryanair =
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The dark side of the moon
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does safety of the aircraft get compromised?
Because when I was in Jerez I watched Ryanair make some really horendous approaches from base to final at 500ft!!!!
Because when I was in Jerez I watched Ryanair make some really horendous approaches from base to final at 500ft!!!!
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
Posts: 4,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
trouble is it is hard to find someone on here or anywhere to say it is crap, as that would seem like they made a mistake, and no-one likes admitting that especially when it is your livelihood we are talking about.
Scroggs
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sunny side up
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well T 'n O, the worst I saw when I was there was an Iberia approach, not going to call them a shoddy outfit because of it!
And I remember a couple of your's AND mine being a bit ...errr frisky
And I remember a couple of your's AND mine being a bit ...errr frisky