Exodus at FlyBE
Maude Charlee,
that was a slightly ignorant comment regarding the situation here.
Firstly as 80ktsboth points out - this is a rule set by the Jersey States and has been in place for along time. Flybe isn't the only company to comply to it. Also it only gives us the OPPORTUNITY of a job, and no guarantee of it. They don't dish out type ratings and free sim passes on the strength of a Jersey Residency.
And secondly why should we put up and shut up, when as loyal company employees - we see others getting treated more favourably?
You know what this industry is like - getting in through the residency back door - if that's what you want to call it - is just one example of how "unfair" the playing field is.
I have a friend with 2,200 hours on the dash 8, who was turned down for an interview with GB because of his lack of experience. Someone i know not far from here got in with 800 hours on a far more inferior turbo-prop coz daddy knew someone in the company.
That sound fair to you too? No different to the "jersey" situation - and i bet you it happens a hell of a lot more.
Ask yourself how many people here have benefitted from this Jersey "loophole" and how many have usurped the system through mates/daddy's friends etc.
Way more.......
Now THATS interesting.
that was a slightly ignorant comment regarding the situation here.
Firstly as 80ktsboth points out - this is a rule set by the Jersey States and has been in place for along time. Flybe isn't the only company to comply to it. Also it only gives us the OPPORTUNITY of a job, and no guarantee of it. They don't dish out type ratings and free sim passes on the strength of a Jersey Residency.
And secondly why should we put up and shut up, when as loyal company employees - we see others getting treated more favourably?
You know what this industry is like - getting in through the residency back door - if that's what you want to call it - is just one example of how "unfair" the playing field is.
I have a friend with 2,200 hours on the dash 8, who was turned down for an interview with GB because of his lack of experience. Someone i know not far from here got in with 800 hours on a far more inferior turbo-prop coz daddy knew someone in the company.
That sound fair to you too? No different to the "jersey" situation - and i bet you it happens a hell of a lot more.
Ask yourself how many people here have benefitted from this Jersey "loophole" and how many have usurped the system through mates/daddy's friends etc.
Way more.......
Now THATS interesting.
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It's always good fun when someone tries to put-down the Channel Islands and claim we get favours.....
Maude Charlee - how we got our job has nothing to do with any of what we've been discussing on here. It comes dow to the fact that WE HAVE ALL WORKED VERY HARD FOR FLYBE AND WANT TO BE TREATED FAIRLY IN RETURN.
Oh, and just to inform you, because you obviously haven't done your homework properly - we had two FO's down here (both left last year of their own free will) who were not Channel Island Residents. They were both from the UK, and 2 or 3 years ago, when there were no locals available for FO positions, they were offered JER as a base.
They worked here, lived here, and enjoyed the lesser tax benefits. And then last year, they decided to leave. And in their places, two locals joined.
So we have not been 'the beneficiaries of one of the most one-sided biases that exist' - we happen to all live here and were available at the right time when Flybe needed to recruit more crew to base here. If we all decided to leave, Flybe would once again recruit 'outsiders' and place them down here. Would they then be exempt from having any moans and groans about the company?!?!
Now THAT's interesting! Response please.....
Maude Charlee - how we got our job has nothing to do with any of what we've been discussing on here. It comes dow to the fact that WE HAVE ALL WORKED VERY HARD FOR FLYBE AND WANT TO BE TREATED FAIRLY IN RETURN.
Oh, and just to inform you, because you obviously haven't done your homework properly - we had two FO's down here (both left last year of their own free will) who were not Channel Island Residents. They were both from the UK, and 2 or 3 years ago, when there were no locals available for FO positions, they were offered JER as a base.
They worked here, lived here, and enjoyed the lesser tax benefits. And then last year, they decided to leave. And in their places, two locals joined.
So we have not been 'the beneficiaries of one of the most one-sided biases that exist' - we happen to all live here and were available at the right time when Flybe needed to recruit more crew to base here. If we all decided to leave, Flybe would once again recruit 'outsiders' and place them down here. Would they then be exempt from having any moans and groans about the company?!?!
Now THAT's interesting! Response please.....
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BPM,
Regarding you guys being treated favourably, JER and GCI have got the cushiest life in the whole network. Sure some of you guys have to fly 6 sectors between the same destinations day in and day out, but you start and finish at reasonable times.
And perish the thought that one of you guys will be called off standby to operate elewhere, crewing will just have to call out an old and knackered pilot from SOU.
Regarding you guys being treated favourably, JER and GCI have got the cushiest life in the whole network. Sure some of you guys have to fly 6 sectors between the same destinations day in and day out, but you start and finish at reasonable times.
And perish the thought that one of you guys will be called off standby to operate elewhere, crewing will just have to call out an old and knackered pilot from SOU.
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Would some of you flybe people suggest names of anyone other than Mr Darby who it might be useful to send a CV to, especially for those slightly older ones with commercial experience.
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ever heard the old saying
" If you can't do anyone any good, don't do them any harm "
people work hard and are used and abused by all industries throughout the world, so stop moaning, least you enjoy your job more than the guy in McDonalds wishing he could be be abused flying aircraft round all day after spending 50K of borrowed money on training.. I know what i'd rather do..
" If you can't do anyone any good, don't do them any harm "
people work hard and are used and abused by all industries throughout the world, so stop moaning, least you enjoy your job more than the guy in McDonalds wishing he could be be abused flying aircraft round all day after spending 50K of borrowed money on training.. I know what i'd rather do..
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Maude Charlee,
So that's it is it?......after all that's been said...your only defence is to be offensive.
The last time i checked this was a forum to discuss matters important to every single one of us.
I think that you're accusing us of being whingers after 3 of us called you up in public of inaccurate information. Grow up....this isn't a playground.
WE ARE DAMN LOYAL...we work hard, accept last minute changes with little recompense etc. WE ALSO HAVE OPINIONS......we are not drones.....
There have been very few threads with Flybe employees voicing there opinions over the years and i hadn't posted on pprune until now. However, the situation is coming to a head and we are all entitled to voice our opinions. Why should the company be able to trample over its employees. I have many friends within different airlines and they are all appalled at the way we are treated in Flybe.
The problem is that i love working with the people in Flybe and if they treated people better i'm sure more people would be happy to stay.......me included. I think it's a real shame that they are 'forcing' people to look for other employment.....they are going to continue being a starter airline and will have huge experience problems again in the future.
Oh and Hudson Bay.....have you ever had a christmas bonus from Flybe?.....Ten pound voucher from Marks and Spencer in an envelope with no writing in it!!!!No joke. You are right though.....as a first job you have to be a prostitute....we have to accept what comes to us just so we can get hours. However, the shine soon wears off when you see how loyalty is rewarded and if noone takes a stand then history will repeat itself.
Receiver 2004 noone is arguing with you in how lucky we are to be doing the job we love. I think most have us have worked in crappy jobs in the past ....but do you really believe that current Flybe employees should be fine with the current situation...should we say nothing? Why should we be lapdogs?
So that's it is it?......after all that's been said...your only defence is to be offensive.
The last time i checked this was a forum to discuss matters important to every single one of us.
I think that you're accusing us of being whingers after 3 of us called you up in public of inaccurate information. Grow up....this isn't a playground.
WE ARE DAMN LOYAL...we work hard, accept last minute changes with little recompense etc. WE ALSO HAVE OPINIONS......we are not drones.....
There have been very few threads with Flybe employees voicing there opinions over the years and i hadn't posted on pprune until now. However, the situation is coming to a head and we are all entitled to voice our opinions. Why should the company be able to trample over its employees. I have many friends within different airlines and they are all appalled at the way we are treated in Flybe.
The problem is that i love working with the people in Flybe and if they treated people better i'm sure more people would be happy to stay.......me included. I think it's a real shame that they are 'forcing' people to look for other employment.....they are going to continue being a starter airline and will have huge experience problems again in the future.
Oh and Hudson Bay.....have you ever had a christmas bonus from Flybe?.....Ten pound voucher from Marks and Spencer in an envelope with no writing in it!!!!No joke. You are right though.....as a first job you have to be a prostitute....we have to accept what comes to us just so we can get hours. However, the shine soon wears off when you see how loyalty is rewarded and if noone takes a stand then history will repeat itself.
Receiver 2004 noone is arguing with you in how lucky we are to be doing the job we love. I think most have us have worked in crappy jobs in the past ....but do you really believe that current Flybe employees should be fine with the current situation...should we say nothing? Why should we be lapdogs?
Last edited by 80ktsboth; 8th Feb 2005 at 11:43.
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i have no real idea, apart from what has been written here by a minority, about the working environment of flybe. There is no perfect job and no company will be perfect to everyone, there will always be people unhappy with pay, rostering,holiday,work load etc etc ..
however like ryanair some do take advantage of the goodwill of employees and those desperate to get on and hang on to the first rung of the ladder..
by the way I cannot fin anywhere the min requirements for applying.. ?
however like ryanair some do take advantage of the goodwill of employees and those desperate to get on and hang on to the first rung of the ladder..
by the way I cannot fin anywhere the min requirements for applying.. ?
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ATIS
Do you really think that the schedule out of the Channel Islands is our choice? Yes, we start at 0600 and finish at 1200, and start at 1140 and finish at 2100 (on the dash). But the afternoon is a 6 sector day the same as any other base. We have silly turn-round times of 25mins the same as everywhere else.
We've been crying out for new routes to add a little spice to our lives - luckily with NWI, SEN, BRS and NCL coming up we might finally climb out of scheduled bus service mentality we're in.
As far as us being called off standby to operate elsewhere - it does happen! Might not be on the same scale as the mainland crews, because obviously we don't have the ability to hop in a hire car to get to a different base.
HOWEVER, due to the fact that we are slightly over-crewed down here, you'll find that most of us have spent the last 6months continually night-stopping away from base for blocks of 5days at a time.
In fact, One Capt is so fed up of being away from his family every weekend, he's finally doing something about it.....
So yes, getting called off standby to operate from another base might not be as regular an occurence as it is for you lot on the mainland, but I'm guessing we've all night-stopped a lot more than a lot of you! And then it comes to the old argument - would you rather be doing long 6sector days out of your own base, going home to your family and your own bed every night, or do equally long days away from base where all you have to look forward to is an expensive dinner in the hotel restaurant.....
Maude Charlee - As far as us whinging on here - let's face it we're only saying what everyone else thinks. We're just not afraid to hide behind everyone else and are quite happy to put our views forward - which is what this forum is for after all.....
Echoing 80ktsboth - I love working for FlyBE. I go to work every day knowing I'm going to have a good time because I get on so well with all the crews. It's filled with great people. BUT, there is no reason why we should all lie back and be trampled all over. All we'd all like to see is fair treatment to EVERYONE.
Do you really think that the schedule out of the Channel Islands is our choice? Yes, we start at 0600 and finish at 1200, and start at 1140 and finish at 2100 (on the dash). But the afternoon is a 6 sector day the same as any other base. We have silly turn-round times of 25mins the same as everywhere else.
We've been crying out for new routes to add a little spice to our lives - luckily with NWI, SEN, BRS and NCL coming up we might finally climb out of scheduled bus service mentality we're in.
As far as us being called off standby to operate elsewhere - it does happen! Might not be on the same scale as the mainland crews, because obviously we don't have the ability to hop in a hire car to get to a different base.
HOWEVER, due to the fact that we are slightly over-crewed down here, you'll find that most of us have spent the last 6months continually night-stopping away from base for blocks of 5days at a time.
In fact, One Capt is so fed up of being away from his family every weekend, he's finally doing something about it.....
So yes, getting called off standby to operate from another base might not be as regular an occurence as it is for you lot on the mainland, but I'm guessing we've all night-stopped a lot more than a lot of you! And then it comes to the old argument - would you rather be doing long 6sector days out of your own base, going home to your family and your own bed every night, or do equally long days away from base where all you have to look forward to is an expensive dinner in the hotel restaurant.....
Maude Charlee - As far as us whinging on here - let's face it we're only saying what everyone else thinks. We're just not afraid to hide behind everyone else and are quite happy to put our views forward - which is what this forum is for after all.....
Echoing 80ktsboth - I love working for FlyBE. I go to work every day knowing I'm going to have a good time because I get on so well with all the crews. It's filled with great people. BUT, there is no reason why we should all lie back and be trampled all over. All we'd all like to see is fair treatment to EVERYONE.
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80 kts Both
You are obviously a not a Jet Driver! If you were you wouldn't be complaining about the conditions. What is wrong with a £10 M&S voucher?
How much would you be happy with?
If British Airways offered you a position flying a triple 7 for half your salary I think I know what your answer would be. Throw in some roster distruption, a £5 christmas bonus and some unscheduled night stops in Bermuda and I think you might pay them for the priviledge little rich boy.
Now't wrong with flybe. As I said, add up the extras and you'll find your better off than most Airlines, but then again your only flying puddle jumpers!
You are obviously a not a Jet Driver! If you were you wouldn't be complaining about the conditions. What is wrong with a £10 M&S voucher?
How much would you be happy with?
If British Airways offered you a position flying a triple 7 for half your salary I think I know what your answer would be. Throw in some roster distruption, a £5 christmas bonus and some unscheduled night stops in Bermuda and I think you might pay them for the priviledge little rich boy.
Now't wrong with flybe. As I said, add up the extras and you'll find your better off than most Airlines, but then again your only flying puddle jumpers!
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Oh dear Hudson....wrong....again. I am on the jet fleet.
And the jet drivers are (for the mostpart) unhappy with their terms and conditions....they believe they are worth more. If you think that they're content, then again, you are wrong.(check out the flybe balpa thread)
British Airways aren't offering that so it's a poor parallel.....i mean in the first place are you trying to suggest that the 146 is akin to a 777?
The reason i brought up the Christmas bonus was because YOU used it as a perk in the terms and conditions. I hardly think that the christmas bonus is a major selling point (so the others should be aware) and brought you up on it....i didn't realise that it was going to cause you so much pain......for that i apologise. What do you think i think is wrong with £10 voucher you muppet? i mean come on the company has spent a total of £3,000 pounds on pilots christmas bonus....without even a note to say it's from them!! I think they could show a bit more love!
Oh and if you wish to try and win a point for the working class by calling me rich boy when you haven't got a clue who you are talking to then go ahead.......You can make yourself look like a fool.....there's 'now't' wrong with that!!!!
And the jet drivers are (for the mostpart) unhappy with their terms and conditions....they believe they are worth more. If you think that they're content, then again, you are wrong.(check out the flybe balpa thread)
British Airways aren't offering that so it's a poor parallel.....i mean in the first place are you trying to suggest that the 146 is akin to a 777?
The reason i brought up the Christmas bonus was because YOU used it as a perk in the terms and conditions. I hardly think that the christmas bonus is a major selling point (so the others should be aware) and brought you up on it....i didn't realise that it was going to cause you so much pain......for that i apologise. What do you think i think is wrong with £10 voucher you muppet? i mean come on the company has spent a total of £3,000 pounds on pilots christmas bonus....without even a note to say it's from them!! I think they could show a bit more love!
Oh and if you wish to try and win a point for the working class by calling me rich boy when you haven't got a clue who you are talking to then go ahead.......You can make yourself look like a fool.....there's 'now't' wrong with that!!!!
Last edited by 80ktsboth; 8th Feb 2005 at 21:15.
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Agreeing with 80kts both on this one.
It's not the value of what 'bonus' they give us for Christmas, it's the fact that a nice written card (hell they only have to write it once, print it on a sticker, and then stick it in every card) would be much more appreciated than a blank one. Other than the fact that the envelopes has the flybe stamp on, it could otherwise have come from an unknown source!
Name-calling is soooooooooo last year. This is NOT a personal-dig forum, please let's keep the childish-ness in the playpen.
Oh, and as far as flying the 777 for half the salary I'm on now.....I'm not a prostitute unlike others in this aviation world, so wouldn't touch that offer with a bargepole.
It's not the value of what 'bonus' they give us for Christmas, it's the fact that a nice written card (hell they only have to write it once, print it on a sticker, and then stick it in every card) would be much more appreciated than a blank one. Other than the fact that the envelopes has the flybe stamp on, it could otherwise have come from an unknown source!
Name-calling is soooooooooo last year. This is NOT a personal-dig forum, please let's keep the childish-ness in the playpen.
Oh, and as far as flying the 777 for half the salary I'm on now.....I'm not a prostitute unlike others in this aviation world, so wouldn't touch that offer with a bargepole.
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80 kts.
The train set belongs to the Walkers. If you don't like it leave. Simple. Plenty of people to fill your position. My guess is your just a proffesional moaner and an amateur Pilot.
Flybe are a great Airline, secretly you know that and that is why you work for them. Or is it because your from the CI. and it is the only job you can get because of your geographical home?
No, I'm wrong. You had an offer from BA and you turned them down because there Christmas bonus was only a fiver!!! Ha Ha!!
The train set belongs to the Walkers. If you don't like it leave. Simple. Plenty of people to fill your position. My guess is your just a proffesional moaner and an amateur Pilot.
Flybe are a great Airline, secretly you know that and that is why you work for them. Or is it because your from the CI. and it is the only job you can get because of your geographical home?
No, I'm wrong. You had an offer from BA and you turned them down because there Christmas bonus was only a fiver!!! Ha Ha!!
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Oh dear... so very sad....
why is it that some like to lower themselves to such a level from where they can throw personal insults....
Hudson... for some reason can't access your profile at the moment so can't tell what your 'experience' is... why the comments about whether 80ktsboth as in amateur pilot or not?! Do you not have ANY valid argument.... Are you that pathetic that you turn a discussion about a COMPANY into a personal firing range.....
Try re-reading the post. The whole thing. Once you have read it all, and understood what we've been discussing, then maybe you'll be able to make a comment regarding the situation. Do not lower this to some playground fight. I'd expect that from a teenager. If you're an adult, please comment on the situation like one....
why is it that some like to lower themselves to such a level from where they can throw personal insults....
Hudson... for some reason can't access your profile at the moment so can't tell what your 'experience' is... why the comments about whether 80ktsboth as in amateur pilot or not?! Do you not have ANY valid argument.... Are you that pathetic that you turn a discussion about a COMPANY into a personal firing range.....
Try re-reading the post. The whole thing. Once you have read it all, and understood what we've been discussing, then maybe you'll be able to make a comment regarding the situation. Do not lower this to some playground fight. I'd expect that from a teenager. If you're an adult, please comment on the situation like one....
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hallo!
I ve been reading this post for a bit now, and, considering I have been just offered a FO position on the dash with Flybe, I would like to ask a couple of questions.
1. Anyone could explain me how the 13500pounds bond works?I know you have to sign a load with Barcklay, etc...but at the end of the month, how much of your salary does flybe take away to repay the loan?
2. I heard a lot of comments about the roaster instability etc....and I am not new to it, although in a different company....I know how frustrating it's sometime the fact that you can never plan ahead.....but in an ideal world, if everything would go as planned....what the roster pattern would be like? and how many day in advance are you given it?
3. how did you find the type rating?
Thank-you for the reply...and i hope to meet you in the flight deck soon!
I ve been reading this post for a bit now, and, considering I have been just offered a FO position on the dash with Flybe, I would like to ask a couple of questions.
1. Anyone could explain me how the 13500pounds bond works?I know you have to sign a load with Barcklay, etc...but at the end of the month, how much of your salary does flybe take away to repay the loan?
2. I heard a lot of comments about the roaster instability etc....and I am not new to it, although in a different company....I know how frustrating it's sometime the fact that you can never plan ahead.....but in an ideal world, if everything would go as planned....what the roster pattern would be like? and how many day in advance are you given it?
3. how did you find the type rating?
Thank-you for the reply...and i hope to meet you in the flight deck soon!
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1) You don't actually lose any of your salary each month. Flybe include the £300 (or whatever it is) in each payslip. The loan agreement with Barclays has that same amount coming out of your account the next day. You'll only lose money if you leave flybe before the bond is up - then you'll be paying it without flybe having given it to you first!
2)We get our rosters on 20th each month. Just enough time to be able to plan your social life.
No fixed roster pattern - some prefer it that way others would like to see something fixed. You could end up doing a couple of 6on2off, or a 5on2off, or a 4on3off. Totally depends on crew numbers etc etc.
3) Type rating was ok. Was my first one so nothing to compare it to. Did it out in Toronto. Great ground and sim instructors.
2)We get our rosters on 20th each month. Just enough time to be able to plan your social life.
No fixed roster pattern - some prefer it that way others would like to see something fixed. You could end up doing a couple of 6on2off, or a 5on2off, or a 4on3off. Totally depends on crew numbers etc etc.
3) Type rating was ok. Was my first one so nothing to compare it to. Did it out in Toronto. Great ground and sim instructors.