Exodus at FlyBE
Join Date: Feb 2003
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I don't think it's a matter of being gracious. It's how the numbers work.
We all came out with large debts from flight school. The fact is that £5,000 extra is a lot less than a Ryanair bond. Yes i know the 146 is a dying fleet but when people like myself are on a £13,00 jet bond after a £9,000 Dash bond, hearing this setup kinda smarts a little. Should we wish to leave then we will get financially hit for the rest just like the newbies and will have to pay significantly more than the £5,000 plus interest that they will have to find.
Bringing up the cost of er82's car is irrelevant. We are talking about terms and conditions and not how people choose to spend their own money.
All of this has nothing to do with the new guys...it's not their fault ,just our managements. The new guys just have to be aware that its a sore point (and i think they do).
And TDK, if you've spent 4 years in the airline industry then i think you can safely bypass Flybe and get a job on a shiny jet with a better company and salary.
We all came out with large debts from flight school. The fact is that £5,000 extra is a lot less than a Ryanair bond. Yes i know the 146 is a dying fleet but when people like myself are on a £13,00 jet bond after a £9,000 Dash bond, hearing this setup kinda smarts a little. Should we wish to leave then we will get financially hit for the rest just like the newbies and will have to pay significantly more than the £5,000 plus interest that they will have to find.
Bringing up the cost of er82's car is irrelevant. We are talking about terms and conditions and not how people choose to spend their own money.
All of this has nothing to do with the new guys...it's not their fault ,just our managements. The new guys just have to be aware that its a sore point (and i think they do).
And TDK, if you've spent 4 years in the airline industry then i think you can safely bypass Flybe and get a job on a shiny jet with a better company and salary.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Bitter!, of course I'm bitter!
But not just bitter, old and bitter, even worse. I'll pay any bond you like, but I guess I'm just an aviation prostitute. Given the chance would be nice!
I think I might start an old fATPL union.
cheers and 3 cheers for old people!
MJR
But not just bitter, old and bitter, even worse. I'll pay any bond you like, but I guess I'm just an aviation prostitute. Given the chance would be nice!
I think I might start an old fATPL union.
cheers and 3 cheers for old people!
MJR
Join Date: Mar 2001
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TDK mk2 - not that it's any of your business, but I haven't bought my car, I've taken out a loan. It's no different to someone who buys a flat/house and has a mortgage. And seeing as you have absolutely no idea about my financial situation, please don't dare to comment whether I can easily afford £5000 or not.
As 80ktsboth stated, this is not a personal dig at any of the new guys who have been offered a pretty jammy deal. It's about those at FlyBE who have already had to put up with a load of poo, and to whom this deal seems more like a kick in the teeth.
As far as sparing a thought for those of you who have 'spent 4 years in the right hand seat of a turboprop, earning less than you and can't even get a reply from FlyBe' - I completely agree that FlyBE should be taking on more experienced pilots who won't be looking at FlyBE as a stepping stone to bigger and better airlines. But there's nothing I can do about it.
JP - I'm afraid I'll have to correct you! If we all had the deal of paying off a dash bond, and then when converting onto the 146 we only had to bond for £5000, there wouldn't be the 'uproar' there is at the moment! That's what we'd like to see though - a fair deal for all, both old employees and new.
As 80ktsboth stated, this is not a personal dig at any of the new guys who have been offered a pretty jammy deal. It's about those at FlyBE who have already had to put up with a load of poo, and to whom this deal seems more like a kick in the teeth.
As far as sparing a thought for those of you who have 'spent 4 years in the right hand seat of a turboprop, earning less than you and can't even get a reply from FlyBe' - I completely agree that FlyBE should be taking on more experienced pilots who won't be looking at FlyBE as a stepping stone to bigger and better airlines. But there's nothing I can do about it.
JP - I'm afraid I'll have to correct you! If we all had the deal of paying off a dash bond, and then when converting onto the 146 we only had to bond for £5000, there wouldn't be the 'uproar' there is at the moment! That's what we'd like to see though - a fair deal for all, both old employees and new.
well said er82
a fair deal for all.......... thats not too much to ask for is it?
I've already paid off a dash bond (9,000) and now have a 146 bond. If i chose to leave then in would currently cost me way over 10,000..... so am i bitter about newbies getting it for 5 grand? Damn right...
Why should i be penalised for loyal service?
This is just a further kick in the teeth. But as someone rightly said, it's not the fault of the new starters its the fault of the hopeless management.
Why can't they see that the workforce is shattered by low morale?
BPM
a fair deal for all.......... thats not too much to ask for is it?
I've already paid off a dash bond (9,000) and now have a 146 bond. If i chose to leave then in would currently cost me way over 10,000..... so am i bitter about newbies getting it for 5 grand? Damn right...
Why should i be penalised for loyal service?
This is just a further kick in the teeth. But as someone rightly said, it's not the fault of the new starters its the fault of the hopeless management.
Why can't they see that the workforce is shattered by low morale?
BPM
Join Date: Jun 1999
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Why can't they see that the workforce is shattered by low morale?
Look at it from the Shareholders / Management position. The flights are still departing on time with bums on the seats and they are paying their workforce a below average wage. As a result they make a larger profit for themselves and the company looks more attractive to future investors.
With new entrants paying towards their type rating and being paid a Dash salary while flying a 146, plus the savings from new f/o's i.e no increments to pay the company are saving a fortune. It is also a fact that new guys will be far more willing to help out by putting up with more roster disturbance and working days off than the more senior guys they replace and therefore can be utilised far more.
They are the clever ones no wonder they couldn't care about morale.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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How much do turbo prop FO s get at Flybe to start, leaving aside the bond? What about those new FOs who start on the 146?
I would just like to know.
(please PM me if you prefer)
Thanks.
I would just like to know.
(please PM me if you prefer)
Thanks.
e28 driver
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Yeah fair enough, er82s financial situation is none of my business and I do understand the concept of being mistreated by management - all too well.
What I don't understand is why it is a 'pretty jammy deal' to have to pay £5000 cash for a rating on a type that will probably have left your fleet by the time they have worked their way through the Q400 and the bond that goes with it. Then if they want to go on the 737s or Airbuses that FlyBe is reputed to be getting they'll have to sign another bond.
I'm not saying what they're doing to you is right (although the backdated salary will surely help) but how can that be described as favourable?
What I don't understand is why it is a 'pretty jammy deal' to have to pay £5000 cash for a rating on a type that will probably have left your fleet by the time they have worked their way through the Q400 and the bond that goes with it. Then if they want to go on the 737s or Airbuses that FlyBe is reputed to be getting they'll have to sign another bond.
I'm not saying what they're doing to you is right (although the backdated salary will surely help) but how can that be described as favourable?
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Well said BPM!
Notac - as far as flights still departing on time... seems that rostering can't actually cover the March schedule because of lack of crews. Flights will be cancelled. Not too sure the shareholders will appreciate that when the find out the situation could have been resolved a long time ago, with decent rosters and the pay-rises asked for.
As far as it being a 'pretty jammy deal' - well considering that up until now FlyBE were one of the few who offered jobs without cash upfront, and looking at what you'd have to pay to go to Ryan etc etc, I'd say it's not bad. If they do ever replace the 146 with a different type (not including the RJ of which they've just got 6), you can be almost guaranteed that the 146 crew will all refuse as a whole to be re-bonded onto a new type. As it would not be perosnal choice to go on it, and would require a whole fleet change, I'm pretty sure that, like the CRJ lot who came onto the dash (I think.... could be wrong) they wouldn't be bonded....
AS far as the back-dated salary goes.. that's not been guaranteed yet. But don't forget - you are also talking about FO's missing out on those magical jet hours. Worling out of SOU and EXT over the summer - guaranteed a good 400!
Notac - as far as flights still departing on time... seems that rostering can't actually cover the March schedule because of lack of crews. Flights will be cancelled. Not too sure the shareholders will appreciate that when the find out the situation could have been resolved a long time ago, with decent rosters and the pay-rises asked for.
As far as it being a 'pretty jammy deal' - well considering that up until now FlyBE were one of the few who offered jobs without cash upfront, and looking at what you'd have to pay to go to Ryan etc etc, I'd say it's not bad. If they do ever replace the 146 with a different type (not including the RJ of which they've just got 6), you can be almost guaranteed that the 146 crew will all refuse as a whole to be re-bonded onto a new type. As it would not be perosnal choice to go on it, and would require a whole fleet change, I'm pretty sure that, like the CRJ lot who came onto the dash (I think.... could be wrong) they wouldn't be bonded....
AS far as the back-dated salary goes.. that's not been guaranteed yet. But don't forget - you are also talking about FO's missing out on those magical jet hours. Worling out of SOU and EXT over the summer - guaranteed a good 400!
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Can't help but feel some people should be careful what they wish for.
Would a JER Q400 FO really be any better off being moved to BHX on the 146 and paying full UK tax, whilst having to fund their own accomodation? Would be surprised if many young FO's owned a pad on JER given the prices down there.
Slightly amusing to an outsider too, to hear Cannel Islands residents whinging about the fairness or otherwise of company recruitment policy, when they themselves have been the beneficiaries of one of the most one-sided biases that exist. Interesting.
Would a JER Q400 FO really be any better off being moved to BHX on the 146 and paying full UK tax, whilst having to fund their own accomodation? Would be surprised if many young FO's owned a pad on JER given the prices down there.
Slightly amusing to an outsider too, to hear Cannel Islands residents whinging about the fairness or otherwise of company recruitment policy, when they themselves have been the beneficiaries of one of the most one-sided biases that exist. Interesting.
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Maude Charlee...what are you arguing here?...what's your point.....first you say that JER based Q400 FO's are better off in Jersey than the UK on the 146....then you say that they can't afford houses in Jersey!! Your definition of wealth seems inconsistent. If these are the trade-offs then both places are comparable. I mean, i think that i could handle 40% tax on the £1k i earn in the higher tax band.......i could then get on the jet and buy a house!!!!
The Channel Island policy of recruitment has not been created by Flybe but by the Channel Islands governments. If you can attain residency status in Guernsey or Jersey then please join...we'd welcome a lightened workload.
Having issues with the company is therefore an entirely separate issue with no hypocrisy involved on our part......interesting
The Channel Island policy of recruitment has not been created by Flybe but by the Channel Islands governments. If you can attain residency status in Guernsey or Jersey then please join...we'd welcome a lightened workload.
Having issues with the company is therefore an entirely separate issue with no hypocrisy involved on our part......interesting
Last edited by 80ktsboth; 7th Feb 2005 at 12:08.
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Lets get this perfectly straight.
You can only be bonded ONCE. Otherwise it is prejudicial to natural advancement, promotion or what ever the legal eagles call it.
However, the size and or length of the bond is out of your hands.
There are a few 146 guys now refusing Dash Commands for this very reason.
The CRJ deal was a case in point and certainly not enforcable in employment law.
You can only be bonded ONCE. Otherwise it is prejudicial to natural advancement, promotion or what ever the legal eagles call it.
However, the size and or length of the bond is out of your hands.
There are a few 146 guys now refusing Dash Commands for this very reason.
The CRJ deal was a case in point and certainly not enforcable in employment law.
Join Date: Nov 2004
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To those of you over 30 trying to get an interview, keep perservering. I've no idea what our recruitment policy is but at the moment it seems a bit too heavily weighted towards young low houred Oxford / Cabair graduates. A good airline relies on a balanced mix of ex RAF / instructor / air taxy / low hours cadets etc...
Make sure you write to the acting fleet manager turboprops and the flt ops admin manager as well as Don Darby, who wrote to me a week before I was employed by Flybe to say that they wouldn't be recruiting for 12 months! Following the sad death of George Dunn who was a fan of pilots from all backgrounds we seem to have reverted to the easiest method of recruitment, which is to phone the 2 big training schools and ask for a list of wannabees.
Keep sending the c.v. in. Do it every week if you have to. Good luck.
Make sure you write to the acting fleet manager turboprops and the flt ops admin manager as well as Don Darby, who wrote to me a week before I was employed by Flybe to say that they wouldn't be recruiting for 12 months! Following the sad death of George Dunn who was a fan of pilots from all backgrounds we seem to have reverted to the easiest method of recruitment, which is to phone the 2 big training schools and ask for a list of wannabees.
Keep sending the c.v. in. Do it every week if you have to. Good luck.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Who is Fleet Manager on the BAe 146 fleet and acting on dash fleet?? Whats are they like? Also if you are called for interview or sim, who is involved and whats the general process?? Any advice much appreciated.
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Listen up guys!
Flybe need Dash 8 Captains. Stop reading into the situation. If you have public transport time and 3000 hours, get yourself noticed. You will get a job. The problem the company has is the massive expansion they are going through and they can't reply to everyone. They need F/O's aswell but they do prefer those from Cabair because of the deal they have with them.
Don't be concerned at what people say or think and to the conditions the company is offering. We have all been prostitutes to aviation at some point in our lives.
It is a great company to work for and I would recomend it to anybody.
You all have the prospect of flying a shiny modern jet and there are the share options that will be handed out soon. 8% of 400 million pounds is alot of cash!
People will always compare with the likes of Ryan and Easy but let me tell you there is very little difference when you take into account the pension , free travel tickets, christmas bonus, free medical insurance, free legal representation, staff travel consessions (I went to Rio, Club class for £150! and many more places) Something you DON'T get with sleazy or working for Die-ing Ryan. Those tickets are £6000 normally! Then there is loss of licence, extra days holiday each year, annual salary increments. Do you want me to continue? Yes? ok. Meals during duty, as much refreshments as you want, they even supply boot polish!! Free medicals, free uniforms, free phone calls to company, free car parking at base airport, and free envolopes to send in your expenses! Add all that up and I think you will find you are paid a dam site more than most Airlines. BA may be the exception. I could go on.
Flybe is an exciting company to work for, it is dominating the domestic market and has a growing network of european destinations. Join in the party I bet you'll never look back!
Flybe need Dash 8 Captains. Stop reading into the situation. If you have public transport time and 3000 hours, get yourself noticed. You will get a job. The problem the company has is the massive expansion they are going through and they can't reply to everyone. They need F/O's aswell but they do prefer those from Cabair because of the deal they have with them.
Don't be concerned at what people say or think and to the conditions the company is offering. We have all been prostitutes to aviation at some point in our lives.
It is a great company to work for and I would recomend it to anybody.
You all have the prospect of flying a shiny modern jet and there are the share options that will be handed out soon. 8% of 400 million pounds is alot of cash!
People will always compare with the likes of Ryan and Easy but let me tell you there is very little difference when you take into account the pension , free travel tickets, christmas bonus, free medical insurance, free legal representation, staff travel consessions (I went to Rio, Club class for £150! and many more places) Something you DON'T get with sleazy or working for Die-ing Ryan. Those tickets are £6000 normally! Then there is loss of licence, extra days holiday each year, annual salary increments. Do you want me to continue? Yes? ok. Meals during duty, as much refreshments as you want, they even supply boot polish!! Free medicals, free uniforms, free phone calls to company, free car parking at base airport, and free envolopes to send in your expenses! Add all that up and I think you will find you are paid a dam site more than most Airlines. BA may be the exception. I could go on.
Flybe is an exciting company to work for, it is dominating the domestic market and has a growing network of european destinations. Join in the party I bet you'll never look back!