forced to pay for a type rating!
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I would take the £2 per sector, it would be better to be gaining the experience rather than sitting on your bum moaning about the state of the world and waiting for someone to bring along a silver platter with a job on it.
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I'm glad to see that at last there is now some sensible arguments being put forward on the subject that are indeed very worthy of reply.
There are a lot of interesting points that deserve a reply here and time permitting I will add some of my own views to some of them this weekend.
Here's a quick one, in the meantime. FlyPuppy's scenario, regarding wife and kids at home with the usual financial demands etc and the pressure put on poor pilot that has extended himself to pay for TR? FP, sorry to say this, but maybe said pilot in that position should have first got wife and kids to 'sign up' to the concept and the realities before hubby made that commitment? The other side is that no matter how much hubby wants to indulge his passion to fly, his circumstances might dictate that an alternative carreer would be more prudent?
His financial situation or his family scenario is not the aviation industry's problem, but more his own.?
Outrageous view you might think, but food for thought.
CH4
There are a lot of interesting points that deserve a reply here and time permitting I will add some of my own views to some of them this weekend.
Here's a quick one, in the meantime. FlyPuppy's scenario, regarding wife and kids at home with the usual financial demands etc and the pressure put on poor pilot that has extended himself to pay for TR? FP, sorry to say this, but maybe said pilot in that position should have first got wife and kids to 'sign up' to the concept and the realities before hubby made that commitment? The other side is that no matter how much hubby wants to indulge his passion to fly, his circumstances might dictate that an alternative carreer would be more prudent?
His financial situation or his family scenario is not the aviation industry's problem, but more his own.?
Outrageous view you might think, but food for thought.
CH4
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Thank you for some of the replies. As was pointed out by Redsnail, at the lower end of the food chain there are indeed some pilots earning a pittance. It has always been so and probably always will remain so. Unfortunately, for many of you with shiny new fATPL's and few hours that is where you are going to have to start off.
Just remember the adagae that it is far better to be looking for work from within the job than from without. At least those pilots struggling to make ends meet whilst paying off debts who are in a job are getting valuable experience and they probably won't have to wait too long for a command on their type and then eventually move on up the food chain to the shinier stuff.
Flypuppy, your scenario could equally apply to a very successful pilot with lots of experience who just hasn't planned his life very well. There are plenty of pilots who, either through their own lack of planning or through scenarios out of their own control, are in financial straits. I know of a few who have large alimony payments to ex-wives and children and have not been fortunate to work for the same employer since starting out. Many pilots have been made redundant over the years and have become migratory, working wherever thay can find a job and they have many if not more of the problems you highlighted. It is not the responsibility of the airlines to change their criteria just to suit an individuals circumstances.
The scheme I was referring to with a Type Rating and six months line experiece earning only £2 an hour flight duty pay was offered with no guarantee of a permanent contract at the end. If no contract was offered then the pilot was free to hawk his or her wares to the highest bidder. They would be low houred B737 rated pilots with six months experience on type and maybe 300-400 hours. Fortunately all the pilots we recruited were offered permanent contracts at the end and are now very experienced but there were no guarantees at the time. Also, they all had to make sacrifices as we all do when starting out. Some were married with a young family and some had to move from another EU country! So, you have to be prepared to be flexible and you have to know your own limits. No one owes you a job, no matter how much you sacrificed to get your licence.
My main point is that there will always be people who are prepared to do anything to get that coveted jet job. Very few will be lucky enough to go straight into it. Many would be prepared to sacrifice their grandmothers. There will always be some who are prepared and able to raise the money for a type rating and there will always be companies who are prepared and able to offer them. It is market forces that dictate how we go about getting our jobs as pilots.
To those that feel angry about it, I can understand your frustration. I have been there and remember the year and a half it took me to get my first job. I did something about it and went for a reasonably cheap bandit type rating and I have never looked back. I'm not rich and had to wait until I was older and had enough equity in my home before I could raise enough money to get my licence. All I could afford by the end was the cheapo bandit rating.
Don't try to use the excuse that it is only the rich kids with wealthy parents who pay for type ratings either. As msot of you will know from when you started your PPL's, the pilots you met down at the flying club were mostly ordinary people from varied backgrounds. The same applies to the pilots you will meet as you progress up the ladder as a professional pilot. Anyone venting their anger on here at those who have decided to pay for a rating had better look at themselves before taking their frustrations out on others.
I'll repeat it again, no one is forcing anyone to pay for a type rating. No one forced anyone to try and become a professional pilot. Just get used to the idea that you have to be extremely flexible and adaptive if you want to get anywhere in this job. Those that just wait and hope that their CV will catch the eye of a benevolent Chief Pilot somewhere and something will come along in the end may just be lucky one day but I wouldn't be holding my breath if I were them. I'd suggest being proactive and getting involved. If it means that some are prepared to pay for a jet type rating then so be it. At least take some aptitude testing first though. If you can't afford a jet type rating then do a bit of research about smaller types and who operates them.
It's a cruel world out there but hopefully one day you'll be able to look back and remember how hard it was as you settle down to your first sector as a new F/O. Caveat Emptor.
Just remember the adagae that it is far better to be looking for work from within the job than from without. At least those pilots struggling to make ends meet whilst paying off debts who are in a job are getting valuable experience and they probably won't have to wait too long for a command on their type and then eventually move on up the food chain to the shinier stuff.
Flypuppy, your scenario could equally apply to a very successful pilot with lots of experience who just hasn't planned his life very well. There are plenty of pilots who, either through their own lack of planning or through scenarios out of their own control, are in financial straits. I know of a few who have large alimony payments to ex-wives and children and have not been fortunate to work for the same employer since starting out. Many pilots have been made redundant over the years and have become migratory, working wherever thay can find a job and they have many if not more of the problems you highlighted. It is not the responsibility of the airlines to change their criteria just to suit an individuals circumstances.
The scheme I was referring to with a Type Rating and six months line experiece earning only £2 an hour flight duty pay was offered with no guarantee of a permanent contract at the end. If no contract was offered then the pilot was free to hawk his or her wares to the highest bidder. They would be low houred B737 rated pilots with six months experience on type and maybe 300-400 hours. Fortunately all the pilots we recruited were offered permanent contracts at the end and are now very experienced but there were no guarantees at the time. Also, they all had to make sacrifices as we all do when starting out. Some were married with a young family and some had to move from another EU country! So, you have to be prepared to be flexible and you have to know your own limits. No one owes you a job, no matter how much you sacrificed to get your licence.
My main point is that there will always be people who are prepared to do anything to get that coveted jet job. Very few will be lucky enough to go straight into it. Many would be prepared to sacrifice their grandmothers. There will always be some who are prepared and able to raise the money for a type rating and there will always be companies who are prepared and able to offer them. It is market forces that dictate how we go about getting our jobs as pilots.
To those that feel angry about it, I can understand your frustration. I have been there and remember the year and a half it took me to get my first job. I did something about it and went for a reasonably cheap bandit type rating and I have never looked back. I'm not rich and had to wait until I was older and had enough equity in my home before I could raise enough money to get my licence. All I could afford by the end was the cheapo bandit rating.
Don't try to use the excuse that it is only the rich kids with wealthy parents who pay for type ratings either. As msot of you will know from when you started your PPL's, the pilots you met down at the flying club were mostly ordinary people from varied backgrounds. The same applies to the pilots you will meet as you progress up the ladder as a professional pilot. Anyone venting their anger on here at those who have decided to pay for a rating had better look at themselves before taking their frustrations out on others.
I'll repeat it again, no one is forcing anyone to pay for a type rating. No one forced anyone to try and become a professional pilot. Just get used to the idea that you have to be extremely flexible and adaptive if you want to get anywhere in this job. Those that just wait and hope that their CV will catch the eye of a benevolent Chief Pilot somewhere and something will come along in the end may just be lucky one day but I wouldn't be holding my breath if I were them. I'd suggest being proactive and getting involved. If it means that some are prepared to pay for a jet type rating then so be it. At least take some aptitude testing first though. If you can't afford a jet type rating then do a bit of research about smaller types and who operates them.
It's a cruel world out there but hopefully one day you'll be able to look back and remember how hard it was as you settle down to your first sector as a new F/O. Caveat Emptor.
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CH4,
Probably very true, until a 737 goes cartwheeling down the runway because the F/O gets so far behind the aeroplane due to being lost in his own problems, and the captain can't get it together in time. Maybe if Silkair and Egyptair had paid more attention to some of their pilots alleged financial problems maybe history would have been different?
Outrageous view you might think, but more food for thought.
Danny,
the situation I have outlined is hypothetical, but as has been mentioned in other threads, once something becomes established as "the norm" in aviation it is difficult to turn back the clock (MCC courses a case in point, IR's being another).
Also the scenario I have created could very well apply to an experienced pilot but the difference is, I would suggest, that the experienced pilot may be better equiped to "pidgeon hole" his life and his experience allows him to multi-task his thought processes as he has more spare mental capacity to cope. I could of course be talking out of my hole but just a thought.
Of course it isn't the airline's responsibility to change criteria to suit individual circumstances, but, in such a safety critical profession, would it not in the airlines interests to ensure that the people who are making strategic decisions with company assest worth >$35,000,000 are happy? I do accept that I could be thinking about this from a utopian point of view, but maybe worth kicking around for a bit.
The scheme you refer to that paid only 2 quid per flight hour, I was under the impression there was also another monthly (re)payment, or did I misunderstand that? If it is the case then that puts a slightly different complexion on things....
His financial situation or his family scenario is not the aviation industry's problem, but more his own.?
Outrageous view you might think, but more food for thought.
Danny,
the situation I have outlined is hypothetical, but as has been mentioned in other threads, once something becomes established as "the norm" in aviation it is difficult to turn back the clock (MCC courses a case in point, IR's being another).
Also the scenario I have created could very well apply to an experienced pilot but the difference is, I would suggest, that the experienced pilot may be better equiped to "pidgeon hole" his life and his experience allows him to multi-task his thought processes as he has more spare mental capacity to cope. I could of course be talking out of my hole but just a thought.
Of course it isn't the airline's responsibility to change criteria to suit individual circumstances, but, in such a safety critical profession, would it not in the airlines interests to ensure that the people who are making strategic decisions with company assest worth >$35,000,000 are happy? I do accept that I could be thinking about this from a utopian point of view, but maybe worth kicking around for a bit.
The scheme you refer to that paid only 2 quid per flight hour, I was under the impression there was also another monthly (re)payment, or did I misunderstand that? If it is the case then that puts a slightly different complexion on things....
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Well said Danny
I hope you will allow me a little latitude, given the circumstances.
Are we a scam? Do we place pilots?
As of today I am looking for the following;
2 X B737 NG captains...Immediate start.
4 X F100 TRE's and Captains
2 X ATR TRE's
Can I find them? No!
At this time in the winter period in EU?....What does that tell you guys out there? Now is the time to get yourselves ready, for sure.
February, last year, I could 'shake the tree' and got no end of qualified Airbus guys falling out..... 3 months later, I could not fill orders I had. The pilots were not there!
As to how dangerous it is filling the positions with minimum hour guys, go think on. Every airline has to maintain a sufficient level of experience. Those that will accept a wanabee pilot are in fact doing you all wanabees a favour! They don't NEED you , but invariably acept that they would like you. They can only dilute their overall experience level to certain standard, acceptable to the authorities.
As always, they can only accept a certain percentage of 'inexperienced pilots'.
I hope you will allow me a little latitude, given the circumstances.
Are we a scam? Do we place pilots?
As of today I am looking for the following;
2 X B737 NG captains...Immediate start.
4 X F100 TRE's and Captains
2 X ATR TRE's
Can I find them? No!
At this time in the winter period in EU?....What does that tell you guys out there? Now is the time to get yourselves ready, for sure.
February, last year, I could 'shake the tree' and got no end of qualified Airbus guys falling out..... 3 months later, I could not fill orders I had. The pilots were not there!
As to how dangerous it is filling the positions with minimum hour guys, go think on. Every airline has to maintain a sufficient level of experience. Those that will accept a wanabee pilot are in fact doing you all wanabees a favour! They don't NEED you , but invariably acept that they would like you. They can only dilute their overall experience level to certain standard, acceptable to the authorities.
As always, they can only accept a certain percentage of 'inexperienced pilots'.
Last edited by CH4; 8th Nov 2003 at 16:53.
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CH4,
You wouldn't be trying to stifle debate by quite unsubtly throwing threats around? Are you interviewing people by stealth on these supposedly annonymouse forums? I have seen you crticize people's CRM because they disagree with your viewpoint. Ever thought that some of the people posting here might not be as they seem? The more I read what you write the less I would be inclined to want to do any business with you (although now that I have criticized you, I am sure my CRM is crap and you wont want to do business with me!)
I think the majority of sensible and reasonable people who hold fATPL's are well aware of the fact that "the world doesnt owe us a living" - how sick am I of reading this phrase?
Only the very brave, stupid or stinking rich would embark on such a project without first assesing the risks/possibility of employment.
I have heard said that pprune is a "virtual pub", well if we can't have a whinge, anonymously, when most of us a separated by distances and geography where can we moan?
The other thing I have noticed, in many cases a persons "onliine persona" can be diametrically opposed to their real personality.
Anyway, you have a nice night.
choose you words carefully here. 'Bite the hand that feeds you'....well, go figure!
I think the majority of sensible and reasonable people who hold fATPL's are well aware of the fact that "the world doesnt owe us a living" - how sick am I of reading this phrase?
Only the very brave, stupid or stinking rich would embark on such a project without first assesing the risks/possibility of employment.
I have heard said that pprune is a "virtual pub", well if we can't have a whinge, anonymously, when most of us a separated by distances and geography where can we moan?
The other thing I have noticed, in many cases a persons "onliine persona" can be diametrically opposed to their real personality.
Anyway, you have a nice night.
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CH4 obviously has an involvement with Global Aviation however if it wasn't for all the rumour-mongering going on I guess he wouldn't feel it necessary to come here and defend, what appears to be, a legitimate and honest business.
I recall my first boss in this industry, he had been a ramp-basher at London/Croydon airport, telling me how he had to salute the flight deck each time an aircraft taxied off stand.
Likewise and again in the good old days, anyone who dared to question or indeed critise the Royals would have been executed.
We all need to move with the times whether we like it or not, wannabes decide to be pilots because they know that at the end of the day they will be earning higher than average salaries, much the same as university graduates will also earn higher than average salaries.
Until such time as climate conditions change wannabe pilots, as do university graduates, need to accept they will accumulate a debt before earning 'big time'.
Any that don't like nor accept that, well nobody is forcing you, in fact I was at the local Tesco's today, they're looking for staff with no mention of any training costs nor bonding!
I recall my first boss in this industry, he had been a ramp-basher at London/Croydon airport, telling me how he had to salute the flight deck each time an aircraft taxied off stand.
Likewise and again in the good old days, anyone who dared to question or indeed critise the Royals would have been executed.
We all need to move with the times whether we like it or not, wannabes decide to be pilots because they know that at the end of the day they will be earning higher than average salaries, much the same as university graduates will also earn higher than average salaries.
Until such time as climate conditions change wannabe pilots, as do university graduates, need to accept they will accumulate a debt before earning 'big time'.
Any that don't like nor accept that, well nobody is forcing you, in fact I was at the local Tesco's today, they're looking for staff with no mention of any training costs nor bonding!
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Likewise and again in the good old days, anyone who dared to question or indeed critise the Royals would have been executed.
-P+G: "Brooks no discent and praises obedience. Will follow orders blindly from above." Not the sort to have on board in these Captain Piccard sound-a-like days. Won't be long and Counselors will be required equipment on the flight deck!
I think the majority of sensible and reasonable people who hold fATPL's are well aware of the fact that "the world doesnt owe us a living" - how sick am I of reading this phrase?
Could it be the case that folk have one thing in mind and are assuming that firing off 1 million CVs covers all the bases?
Feel free to toast me if I am talking b*ll**ks.
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CH 4
(quote from CH4's message on top of this page, that has now been "edited" away):
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
choose you words carefully here. 'Bite the hand that feeds you'....well, go figure!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OKAY!
Your message is clear now: Keep your mouth shut!!! Otherwise I won't give you a job!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
choose you words carefully here. 'Bite the hand that feeds you'....well, go figure!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OKAY!
Your message is clear now: Keep your mouth shut!!! Otherwise I won't give you a job!!!
Last edited by Aviate378; 8th Nov 2003 at 16:25.
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Aviate378
Yes, I did edit my post. That's CRM for you; it works both ways. I accepted some feedback given here from some of the guys and realised that I was being a bit harsh, so I changed what I said! It just goes to show that even some of us older ones still have things to learn!
Yes, I did edit my post. That's CRM for you; it works both ways. I accepted some feedback given here from some of the guys and realised that I was being a bit harsh, so I changed what I said! It just goes to show that even some of us older ones still have things to learn!
Creating a situation where an airline pilot is working for a pittance having funded his/her own training is hardly ideal for the pilot. It is, of course, good for the bean counters.
My view is that these financial 'deals' are just another form of commercial pressure (to add to all the others) on today's airline pilot. It must make the job more onerous.
Could it be a safety problem?
Well, we will see. However, if there is ever a public enquiry following a major airline accident involving one of these poorly paid pilots then the issue will surface prominently.
'First Officer Bloggs had flown 99 hours in the previous 28 days. At the time the aircraft left the runway he had just completed his fifth sector at the end of a 7 day roster pattern. First Officer Bloggs had previously been the subject of criticism within the crewing department for refusing to operate the aircraft into discretion. The enquiry considers that this subtle pressure may have influenced his decision to operate when he was probably in a fatigued state'
'First Officer Bloggs had agreed to have the cost of his type conversion training deducted from his first six months salary. As such he was only being paid £2.00 per flying hour. This meant a maximum gross monthly pay of £200.00. The Enquiry noted that he was heavily in debt at the time and was unable to afford accommodation in the Heathrow area. Thus he was in the situation of commuting daily from his sisters house on the south coast. This daily journey involved a round trip commute of 4 hours.'
'The Enquiry recommends that airline pilots are paid in accordance with the national minimum wage. It further recommends that airlines are required to fund and provide their own type conversion courses.'
My view is that these financial 'deals' are just another form of commercial pressure (to add to all the others) on today's airline pilot. It must make the job more onerous.
Could it be a safety problem?
Well, we will see. However, if there is ever a public enquiry following a major airline accident involving one of these poorly paid pilots then the issue will surface prominently.
'First Officer Bloggs had flown 99 hours in the previous 28 days. At the time the aircraft left the runway he had just completed his fifth sector at the end of a 7 day roster pattern. First Officer Bloggs had previously been the subject of criticism within the crewing department for refusing to operate the aircraft into discretion. The enquiry considers that this subtle pressure may have influenced his decision to operate when he was probably in a fatigued state'
'First Officer Bloggs had agreed to have the cost of his type conversion training deducted from his first six months salary. As such he was only being paid £2.00 per flying hour. This meant a maximum gross monthly pay of £200.00. The Enquiry noted that he was heavily in debt at the time and was unable to afford accommodation in the Heathrow area. Thus he was in the situation of commuting daily from his sisters house on the south coast. This daily journey involved a round trip commute of 4 hours.'
'The Enquiry recommends that airline pilots are paid in accordance with the national minimum wage. It further recommends that airlines are required to fund and provide their own type conversion courses.'
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It's a tricky one the self funded debate, but I reckon it has to be a consideration. After working as a Joiner/Carpenter (Net monthly income 520 stg) I decided to become a pilot. Sacrifice number one. A few loans later, interspersed with loads of hardwork, I finally became a Flying Instructor (Net monthly income 400 stg). Financially, sacrifice number two but great fun. Next came the ATP/CTC, whatever you want to call it, scheme. Huge sacrifice this one, six grand loan, pass the course, no salary, flying allowance only and no guarantee of a job at the end of the summer's flying. Assuming the course was passed, the six grand was paid back to you in monthly instalments, so the bank manager quite liked that. It's one big struggle, but you need to be willing to make the sarifices, because the guy next to you sure as hell will. Almost eight years have passed since the ATP/CTC course, but even now if I found myself out of work I would again make sacrifices, depending on the severitiy of the situation. I hope this gives some people the motivation to continue in what can be a very frustrating industry,
Rgds.
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Hey Danny - Sign me up for the type rating and two quid an hour for six months deal. If you do the sums it's the ideal scenario as I get my type rating worth 20K+ with a job waiting at the end. Like flying Farmer I'm 41 now and can't afford to either wait the proverbial year or two for the market to turn round or pay upfront for a rating with no prospect of a job at the end of it.
Maybe you could organise something with Hamrah and give us keen old 'uns a go. Are you on for it Capt?
Maybe you could organise something with Hamrah and give us keen old 'uns a go. Are you on for it Capt?
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Ditto...
It's another "Depression" and times are hard. I can't afford to pay for my type rating but if it means low (or no) pay for 6 months, then I'll do it. In my case, that's better than being unemployed for 18-24 months.
It's another "Depression" and times are hard. I can't afford to pay for my type rating but if it means low (or no) pay for 6 months, then I'll do it. In my case, that's better than being unemployed for 18-24 months.
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Danny,
Which airlines is doing the 2 pounds an hour no basic pay business, in other words it means that you are changing F/O quite often as new guys keep coming and the old ones have to leave.
I can in someway understand getting paid 2 pounds an hour during your line training and still.....
I agree that doing this scheme is better than being unemployed, but on the other hand what about the F/O allready qualified for this company.....?????
Ciao Danny...
...
Which airlines is doing the 2 pounds an hour no basic pay business, in other words it means that you are changing F/O quite often as new guys keep coming and the old ones have to leave.
I can in someway understand getting paid 2 pounds an hour during your line training and still.....
I agree that doing this scheme is better than being unemployed, but on the other hand what about the F/O allready qualified for this company.....?????
Ciao Danny...
...
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I think that many wannabes' expectations are far too high! When, in a time of high aircrew unemployment, the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet demand a type rating and a minimum of 500 hours on type, who do you think they're looking for? A bunch of newly-qualified guys with the minimum qualifications? Or some of the large number of unemployed who already meet their specifications?
The answer to that is fairly obvious. Some here have already intimated that airlines do need to look to the future, even in tough times, so they set their minimum qualification requirement at a level that will ensure that some newish guys get in. However, most of their recruits in these times will comfortably exceed these minimum requirements. Of course, schools will pick up on these minima and offer to train you to this minimum standard - at a cost, and without guarantees. Hey, they're out to earn a living too! But you are presumably intelligent, and can distinguish the opportunists from the long-term operators.
Times are now beginning to look more positive, at least in UK. The market is gradually realising (as CH4 implies) that there are fewer experienced guys out there. The minimum qualifications will soon drop, and at the same time the remunerations will improve - especially at those operators who stand to lose their experienced Shed/F50/Bandit pilots to the entry-level jet operators. That's the way the market works.
Those of you who have an fATPL and feel aggrieved that you don't have a jet job have no concept of the way the world works. Even in the high times in the USA and Europe, very few left training with an intro to a B737 or whatever. Right now, there are 5000+ hour jet pilots in the US scratching for B200 jobs. Such was the impact of 9/11 there. Even here, there are still many experienced jet pilots made unemployed post 9/11 who haven't come back. Some of them never will.
So, should you get a rating? I personally disapprove of newly-qualified fATPLs getting a jet rating. In general, I think you're wasting your time - but I recognise that some succeed this way. If you're determined to do it, then at least make sure that you use a reputable trainer. A turboprop rating is a different matter. Most TP operators are never going to be able to afford to pay your ratings for you, but if you'll meet them halfway they'll give you great experience in the certain knowlege that you'll move on in time. If, after a few years in the TP business, you're unlucky enough to be looking for a jet job when there aren't many about, then maybe you'd be justified in paying for a jet rating. I just don't see the need when you're brand new to flying. As for those who complain about the commercial organisations who charge you large amounts of money for the qualifications you want, ask yourselves whether or not you are playing into their arms with your expectations to be flying a jet a few months after you've achieved your CPL?
The answer to that is fairly obvious. Some here have already intimated that airlines do need to look to the future, even in tough times, so they set their minimum qualification requirement at a level that will ensure that some newish guys get in. However, most of their recruits in these times will comfortably exceed these minimum requirements. Of course, schools will pick up on these minima and offer to train you to this minimum standard - at a cost, and without guarantees. Hey, they're out to earn a living too! But you are presumably intelligent, and can distinguish the opportunists from the long-term operators.
Times are now beginning to look more positive, at least in UK. The market is gradually realising (as CH4 implies) that there are fewer experienced guys out there. The minimum qualifications will soon drop, and at the same time the remunerations will improve - especially at those operators who stand to lose their experienced Shed/F50/Bandit pilots to the entry-level jet operators. That's the way the market works.
Those of you who have an fATPL and feel aggrieved that you don't have a jet job have no concept of the way the world works. Even in the high times in the USA and Europe, very few left training with an intro to a B737 or whatever. Right now, there are 5000+ hour jet pilots in the US scratching for B200 jobs. Such was the impact of 9/11 there. Even here, there are still many experienced jet pilots made unemployed post 9/11 who haven't come back. Some of them never will.
So, should you get a rating? I personally disapprove of newly-qualified fATPLs getting a jet rating. In general, I think you're wasting your time - but I recognise that some succeed this way. If you're determined to do it, then at least make sure that you use a reputable trainer. A turboprop rating is a different matter. Most TP operators are never going to be able to afford to pay your ratings for you, but if you'll meet them halfway they'll give you great experience in the certain knowlege that you'll move on in time. If, after a few years in the TP business, you're unlucky enough to be looking for a jet job when there aren't many about, then maybe you'd be justified in paying for a jet rating. I just don't see the need when you're brand new to flying. As for those who complain about the commercial organisations who charge you large amounts of money for the qualifications you want, ask yourselves whether or not you are playing into their arms with your expectations to be flying a jet a few months after you've achieved your CPL?
