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Avient making headlines again

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Avient making headlines again

Old 28th Nov 2009, 12:42
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AAL - Although this is a tragic accident, your comments are completely accurate. How many African Cargo Airlines have to crash before the EEU and others realise that there is no Safety Oversight or Compliance in these countries. (How can there be with the lack of infrastructure and funding to monitor these 'offshore' airlines especially with the more modern aircraft types such as the MD11). Avient have a dubious reputation at best and this accident will put them very much under the spotlight with the safety authorities which is so it should be. Our hearts go out to the familes and friends of the crew members that have lost their lives, they deserved better.
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 14:49
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templarmaster

Heart felt sympathy to family and friends of the MD11 crew that died and a swift recovery and repatriation to the surviviors.

I hope the cause of this accident was not overloading. when I worked for Avient, this subject was always a bugbear, we would ask the MD what payload to use for FPL purposes and the same reply came back "as much as you can get on", when he felt the payload was not enough - a re-clear FPL was run to get more on.

We will have to wait and see.

RIP the Crew
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 15:19
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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What can I say. Very sad. Won't speculate, but having flown for them.......
Hope Mr. Smith stands by the families of the deceased, I am sure Jane will do her level best to do everything that she can. 2/5 of the fleet gone in a couple of weeks.
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 16:01
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Another Halifax?

This is eerily similar to MK 747 at Halifax... let us hope that the Chinese investigators do as good a job as the Canadians in getting the facts right. The most positive outcome of Halifax was forcing MK off of an African register of convenience and "going legit". Perhaps we can (and should) expect a similar outcome for Avient?
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 16:29
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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This particular MD11F (ex Varig Log) had the lower Landing Weight Limit
(a $500k paperwork upgrade if you can afford it) and Avient were only offering a commercial nett payload to the Brokers of 82,000 Kilos compared to 85T-87T nett payload that can be carried by LH/World etc.
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 17:15
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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I was appalled when I saw the Avient website today, at the very least the company could have made a statement that their immediate concern was for the crew and their families, instead all the world got was a cold and insensitive message. Wake up Mr Smith, right now the industry has you under the spotlight and you have failed at the first hurdle. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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Old 28th Nov 2009, 19:53
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Originally Posted by zfwmac
I was appalled when I saw the Avient website today, at the very least the company could have made a statement that their immediate concern was for the crew and their families, instead all the world got was a cold and insensitive message. Wake up Mr Smith, right now the industry has you under the spotlight and you have failed at the first hurdle. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Saw that also and would have to say I was very disappointed but, unfortunately, not at all surprised.

For anyone who hasn't seen it the statement was;

Originally Posted by Avients website
An Avient Aviation operated aircraft was involved in an accident at approximate 00:16 GMT today while the aircraft, a McDonnell Douglas MD11 Freighter , was operating a charter freight flight from Pudong International Airport in China.

Preliminary information indicates that the accident occurred on takeoff from Pudong International Airport. The aircraft was carrying a crew of 7.

At this time, the full resources of Avient's accident response team have been mobilised and will be devoted to cooperating with all authorities responding to the accident.

At this time no further information is available. Avient will continue to release additional information as it is confirmed.
Rgds
AAO
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 01:22
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Teplarmaster

Well Mr Smith may have got is act slightly together "a response team", He had no such team available before he moved ops from LGW. It was call him, the technical director and the LGW office manager. No accident procedures, no dedicated emergancy cell, i.e. phone lines etc., So I guess his response team is probably him and the tech director.
With regards to a statement with regards to the crew, Mr. Smith does not appear to be a caring employer
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 05:23
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Of course you were expecting Avient to gather 150 heads strong team and setup a toll-free call centre, breaking news every 15 minutes on all channels etc? Get a life, this is an all-cargo operation with a few airframes.

Statement quoted looks like taken from emergency response plan, we have something very similar, just a bunch of templates.
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 08:30
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Of course you were expecting Avient to gather 150 heads strong team and setup a toll-free call centre, breaking news every 15 minutes on all channels etc?
But isn't that what the use of the phrase "At this time, the full resources of Avient's accident response team have been mobilised" is trying to imply??
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 09:38
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But isn't that what the use of the phrase "At this time, the full resources of Avient's accident response team have been mobilised" is trying to imply??
Absolutely not. Maybe this is something what other people imagined. What Avient press release says is approaprite resources has been allocated. I have no idea what their resources are but 2-3 people would be enough, one to cover MX side follow up and records preservasion, another one OPS side and dispatch docs, one more to talk to families, insurance and customer. Been there, done that. There is nil public interest to this accident, like to most other all-cargo accidents.

What you think they should do and how many people should be there? In case you don't know there is very little involvement required from airline side at initial stage, only factual information. Airline reps are normally not allowed on site at all. The rest is just PR is you want to compare it to AirFrance case.

Last edited by CargoOne; 29th Nov 2009 at 09:50.
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 10:08
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Wow, less than a week in service before written off. Me thinks this is the
end for Avient.
MK Airlines managed to survive four total hull loss accidents.

Hope everything is correct with the insurance so at least the crews families get something.
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 10:10
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Sad that Avient has owned only one month the aircraft.

Varig flew with the aircraft under registration PR-LGD JetPhotos.Net Photo PR-LGD (CN: 48408) Varig Log McDonnell Douglas MD-11(F) by Jeroen Stroes

Previous owner was also Korean Airlines!
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 11:38
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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Safety Oversight

It is absolutely tragic that three experienced aviators have lost their lives in this awful accident. RIP Guys

I truly hope that they have not been let down by a lack of regulation which appears to allow airlines such as Avient to continue worldwide operations without any real safety oversight and effectively allows them to operate under a flag of convenience. The company aircraft rarely, if ever, operate to Zimbabwe, so there is little chance for the controlling authority to maintain an effective regime of oversight.

I would very much doubt that the authority in question have the necessary resources to effectively manage the safety of any airline operating outside of its boarders, let alone an airline which has its command and control based in the United Kingdom with an operational base in Liege, Belgium, even if it does have a pseusdo airline HQ in Harare.

It will be interesting to see what the FAA/NTSB/CAAC accident investigators conclude with regard to the introduction of a new aircraft type onto the Avient Air Operators Certificate and whether all the requisit elements for this operation were sufficiently in place to support its introduction to revenue service.
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 16:26
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Missing the Point

Ask yourself this. Nearly 10 years safe operation with DC10 (yes the odd engine blow up, RTO etc. but who doesn't) and quite a few SAFA inspections in that time. Nothing to endorse any of the frankly vitriolic comments found on this site. So until the investigation is done, and we are availed of the cause of the crash, please could we in the name of good sense and with respect to the dead, keep to facts and not speculation. Rumour network it may be but trying to tie a possible over-rotation/power-loss to there being a Z Registration on the fuselage, even for me is pretty far fetched. The fact that an aircraft doesn't have to meet EASA rules to fly in and out of Euroland, is probably true of 3/4 of the worlds fleets. Nonetheless, everyone has to meet basic ICAO standards, which are more than fit for purpose. Even with the might of EASA regulating, inspecting, legislating and general 'red-taping', EU carriers are still killing people.

Rant over
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 18:31
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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Avient is still quite active

Z-ALT during touchdown today (29-11-2009) at Liege (Belgium):



I presume Avient is in the spotlight and will be closely watched by SAFA teams and others but companies like this have their ways to survive. I am sure that this tragic loss won't close them down immediately.
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 18:57
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Foxy 2600

You joined Prune in 2005.

I appreciate what you're saying, but asking for what you are is a little naive on this forum. It's what people DO. Every single accident posted here, gets a chorus of theories about causes - in bad taste or not.

You've only to listen to people discussing a football match to know that's what humans do - all the time. Now you'll want to say (quite reasonably) 'but this is different - people have died' - and you'd be right, people have. But will it make any difference to those who 'must' propose their theory, or those that hate the company for reasons various? I doubt it.

There are quite a few people on this particular thread who have personal experience with the company and AS - the comment about 10 years safe flying rather rankled with me - if you only knew (perhaps you DO know, because I don't know WHO I'm talking to). Some of the 'stories' (I am aware of the law) would make your toes curl.

Personally, I am very sorry for those involved, especially for their next of kin and the genuine guys and girls working for the company, it's a tragedy for all concerned.

I really, really hope that insurance is in place, rather than 'It's OK, Andrew will look after you'. He can only DO that IF, he has the means and if he wants to.

What happens if he doesn't want to defies imagination (IF that regime is still in force).

As for the cause of the accident, I would say it's pretty irrelevant just at the moment - that'll be established later. You cannot reasonably expect people in this business not to theorise, however right and noble your reasons.
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Old 29th Nov 2009, 21:00
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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Boeing Statement on MD-11 Freighter Crash in Shanghai

SEATTLE, Nov. 28, 2009 - Boeing has recently learned that an MD-11 freighter airplane crashed shortly after takeoff from Shanghai Pudong International Airport on Saturday morning (local time). All of us at Boeing wish to offer our condolences to the family and friends of those who lost their lives in the crash. We will keep the injured crew members and their families in our thoughts. At the invitation of the Civil Aviation Administration of China, Boeing is providing technical assistance to the investigation in coordination with the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board.
# # #
Contact:
Sandy Angers
Boeing Commercial Airplanes
+1 206-851-7974 (mobile)
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Old 30th Nov 2009, 00:29
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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foxy2600

HERE HERE,well said,some sense at last !!
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Old 30th Nov 2009, 07:45
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There is a wikipedia page for those who are interested by the case
Avient Aviation Flight 324 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Remember it's wikipedia, anybody can edit and add facts linked to sources. it'll then a lot easier to find information in the future, when all blog/forum/news pages will be gone.
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