Wikiposts
Search
Freight Dogs Finally a forum for those midnight prowler types who utilise the unglamorous parts of airports that many of us never get to see. Freight Dogs is for pilots and crew who operate mostly without SLF.

Atlas Polar

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 12th Oct 2008, 16:05
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Pago Pago
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ahhahahahahahahahaahahaahahahahahahaahahaha.
Beaver_Driver is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2008, 19:30
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Miami, FL U.S.A.
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Good One

As the Human Torch from the Fantastic 4 would say " Flame On"
Po Boy is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2008, 21:59
  #83 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: New York
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
And DHL is going to do this with their 25% voting rights....rrrrrrrighttttt.
WhaleDriver is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2008, 01:02
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Well, they could . . . everything is for sale for the right price!

Back to the thread:

If I'm overseas and thrown in jail -- what is Teamsters position on this. Can I call an attorney and have them represent me? What about accidents in another country? Are we covered??

For those of you that used to be Teamsters tell us why you decided to go to other avenues.

From what I've gathered thus far the only thing I see is lower dues and disgruntlement towards ALPA. I can't see jumping ship just because I'm mad at "Dad." I see this as only delaying a contract that is way over due.
dumbdumb is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2008, 03:09
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Arctic
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The delay in our contract negotiations was caused by ALPA.......

The 270 day clock is running and doesn't matter if we are ALPA or IBT. Changing unions is not going to change the time clock. We are stuck negotiating in a recession because of ALPA's inability to do the right thing for all it's members.
elevenkilo is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2008, 03:58
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Pago Pago
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If I'm overseas and thrown in jail -- what is Teamsters position on this. Can I call an attorney and have them represent me? What about accidents in another country? Are we covered??
Here is a direct quote from Dave Bourne on some comments about the Kalitta accident in Columbia

"....I wanted everyone to know that as the new Director,,,it will not be business as usual. We have a problem, WE WILL BE THERE ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD,,,that is what being in a union means to me and should mean to everyone else."
Beaver_Driver is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2008, 06:38
  #87 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Age: 65
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As to the ALPA's legal help after an incident, we at Atlas have first hand knowledge after the DUS incident which later turned out to be the fault of the airport for reporting incorrect braking action reports. They ended up buying the A/C.

The captain called ALPA legal at the airport after the incident and then got a 15 minute dissertation on what ALPA legal lawyer couldn't do and no advice. Not particularly helpfull at all. Luckily the captain was ex FAA and initiated getting the evidence with the local CAA that resulted in the finding of the airport being at fault for the incorrect braking action reports.

ALPA legal might be helpfull in the US, but internationally they suck.

As to the Teamsters, the local has a lawyer on staff who also has access to other lawyers in specific disciplines when needed.
nitty-gritty is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2008, 14:57
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Gods Country
Age: 72
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Loss of license

Nitty,

Don't believe there is a loss of license package with the Teamsters that we enjoy with ALPA. ALPA has always had a top notch aero medical dept. as well.

Also, what is the Teamsters position on crew leasing?
Best Angle is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2008, 22:10
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Why don't you tell us a bit more about crew leasing.
If that happens it is all over regardless of what Union we belong to.
But if you could enlighten us on how this works for an Airline operating under 121 I am ready to learn.
v1andgo is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2008, 22:53
  #90 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: US
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Why don't you tell us a bit more about crew leasing.
If that happens it is all over regardless of what Union we belong to.
But if you could enlighten us on how this works for an Airline operating under 121 I am ready to learn.
.......huh?
WhaleFR8 is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2008, 22:54
  #91 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Gods Country
Age: 72
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Crew services

Here you go...

"At such time as a single collective bargaining agreement covering ATLAS and theretofore COMPANY Flight Crewmembers (the “SCBA”) is negotiated and takes effect (the “SCBA Date”), all COMPANY Flight Crewmembers, with the exception of those retained by COMPANY in managerial positions, such as directors of operations, maintenance, safety and quality assurance, and chief pilot, shall be transferred to ATLAS and become ATLAS employees, and ATLAS shall thereafter provide qualified Flight Crewmembers to COMPANY in sufficient numbers and of sufficient qualifications to operate the Aircraft. Each Flight Crewmember assigned by ATLAS from and after the SCBA Date pursuant to this Agreement shall be referred to as an “Assigned Crewmember” and a crew complement adequate to operate an Aircraft from and after the SCBA Date shall be referred to as an “Assigned Crew.” The term “Assigned Crewmember” shall be deemed a subset of the term “Flight Crewmember” and the term “Assigned Crew” shall be deemed a subset of the term “Flight Crew.”
Best Angle is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2008, 22:56
  #92 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: US
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Don't believe there is a loss of license package with the Teamsters that we enjoy with ALPA. ALPA has always had a top notch aero medical dept. as well.
ALPA aeromedical is contracted out. The same "contractor" is available to anyone. Same with LOL insurance - except in the Teamster case you will not have to pay the 5% premium that ALPA tacks on top of the cost. All of these questions have been answered on the atlasforteamsters.org site.
WhaleFR8 is offline  
Old 17th Oct 2008, 06:40
  #93 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: US
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Here you go...

"At such time as a single collective bargaining agreement covering ATLAS and theretofore COMPANY Flight Crewmembers (the “SCBA”) is negotiated and takes effect (the “SCBA Date”), all COMPANY Flight Crewmembers, with the exception of those retained by COMPANY in managerial positions, such as directors of operations, maintenance, safety and quality assurance, and chief pilot, shall be transferred to ATLAS and become ATLAS employees, and ATLAS shall thereafter provide qualified Flight Crewmembers to COMPANY in sufficient numbers and of sufficient qualifications to operate the Aircraft. Each Flight Crewmember assigned by ATLAS from and after the SCBA Date pursuant to this Agreement shall be referred to as an “Assigned Crewmember” and a crew complement adequate to operate an Aircraft from and after the SCBA Date shall be referred to as an “Assigned Crew.” The term “Assigned Crewmember” shall be deemed a subset of the term “Flight Crewmember” and the term “Assigned Crew” shall be deemed a subset of the term “Flight Crew.”
I am not sure where that comes from, but it sounds like AACS (which has since turned into AABO) contract language which has been negated by the LOA that says that Atlas will no longer hire for that entity.
WhaleFR8 is offline  
Old 17th Oct 2008, 19:24
  #94 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Gods Country
Age: 72
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Where it comes from

Whale...

It comes from AAWH "Flight Services" agreement between Atlas and Polar. They plan to lease crews to Polar after the merger. It is all about certificate seperation.

FLIGHT SERVICES AGREEMENT
Between
Atlas Air, Inc.
and
Polar Air Cargo Worldwide, Inc.
DATED JUNE 28, 2007
FLIGHT SERVICES AGREEMENT
THIS FLIGHT SERVICES AGREEMENT (the/this “Agreement”), made and entered into this 28th day of June, 2007 (the “Effective Date”), between ATLAS AIR, INC., a Delaware Corporation, having its principal operating office at 2000 Westchester Avenue, Purchase, New York 10577, USA (“ATLAS”) and POLAR AIR CARGO WORLDWIDE, INC., a Delaware Corporation having its principal place of business at 2000 Westchester Avenue, Purchase, NY 10577, USA (“COMPANY”) (each, a “Party”; collectively, the “Parties”).
Best Angle is offline  
Old 17th Oct 2008, 19:27
  #95 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Gods Country
Age: 72
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What it sounds like..

Whale, you are right on.... It does sound like AACS.....
Best Angle is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2008, 08:16
  #96 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Age: 65
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sounds like we need scope similar to Republics contract in the new merged CBA (SCBA). BTW they are Teamsters.

The problem is that you are arguing a point that is in motion that you cannot change. Polar Air Cargo Worldwide, Inc. was the entity created and to sell DHL a 49 percent portion of Polar Air Cargo, inc for the block space - ACMI agreement that included Atlas services under ACMI. It is why Atlas is flying under it now. The merger is in motion and PID set and awaiting a final CBA. Whether we are ALPA or Teamsters it will go forward and you will not be able to STRIKE as many Polar crewmembers seem to think. It will be an agreed to merged contract by all or an arbitrated merged contract. The holding out of the Polar contingent that Prater will pull the circuit breaker on the merger if ALPA is kept in place after the upcoming representation vote may be a hope for your group since he obviously prefers to represent Polar vs Atlas, but the ALPA bylaws say he can't do it along with the ALPA legal department. I wouldn't doubt him saying "sue me if you don't like it" to the Atlas crewmembers with all the resources (our collective dues) at his disposal.

As to Loss of License in your earlier post, there is a commitment letter from a vendor already. Medical services and legal services available also.

You can buy services as above, but you can't buy representation. ALPA chose not to represent Atlas along with a number of other "B" carriers, particularly during the Prater term, and here we are with a number of councils initiating decertifications. Heard Midwest Express is doing it now.
nitty-gritty is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2008, 17:07
  #97 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: KLAX
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Nitty - Is this how you see AAWH's organization tree ?

.................................................... AAWH ...............................
.......................................................... I ...................................
.......................................................... I ..................................
.......................................................... I ...................................
Polar Air Cargo WorldWide ................. .Atlas Air Inc ...
........................ I ................................................... I ................
........................ I ................................................... I .................
........................ I ................................................... I..................
...... Polar Air Cargo (51%) ............................ AABO ............
............................................................ ......................................
............................................................ .....................................

Last edited by L-38; 18th Oct 2008 at 19:33.
L-38 is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2008, 17:49
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
AACS (or AABO now) is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Atlas Air, Inc, not AAWH.
Intruder is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2008, 19:30
  #99 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: KLAX
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thank's - The chart is corrected.
L-38 is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2008, 19:52
  #100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Pago Pago
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
hmmmm.....

I don't see ANY mention of "Polar Air Cargo" on the company web-site anymore so I think your model is wrong..

Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings, Inc., a leading provider of global air cargo services, is the parent company of Atlas Air, Inc. and majority owner of Polar Air Cargo Worldwide, Inc. Trading symbol is: Nasdaq: AAWW


and

Polar Air Cargo Worldwide, Inc. (Polar) is a global leader in the international air cargo market, specializing in time-definite, airport-to-airport scheduled freight service. The Company provides a critical link in the international logistics chain by connecting major cargo markets in the Americas, Asia, Europe and the Far East via frequent Boeing 747 freighter service. Polar also promises a strong express network through its partnership with DHL Express, which owns a 49% stake in Polar. Polar is 51% owned by Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings, Inc. (AAWW), and is based in Purchase, N.Y.
I think "Polar" as we all knew it - is gone.
Beaver_Driver is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.