Atlas Polar
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Atlas Polar
I don't understand the argument. Let's get a new contract where everyone is equal. Ask the Atlas guys what I mean. The senior guys work under one plan. The junior guys under another plan. Not everyone has the same work rules. Let's make it all for one and one for all.
THANKS
THANKS
Last edited by joetommy; 11th Sep 2008 at 17:13.
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I think what your Atlas comrade is saying Fr8dog is that he's probably a little tired of the senior guys getting the "gravey" schedules without being extended. And the junior guys getting the shaft and always getting extended(I guess JT is not very senior and tired of working 3 weeks out of the month).
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It seems as what some people aren't understanding is that each year that goes by is another year that management reaps the benefits of cheap labor. They're laughing all the way to the bank. They don't care how long it takes for joint negotiations, Teamsters vote, etc. That's the BIG picture. Projected profit over 185 million for 2009. Ohh no wonder the stock is doing very well and they're keeping their nose out of the merger situation.
Even if/when Teamsters is voted in how long do you think it will take to get a contract????? And while on this subject . . . do you really think it's a good idea to go after an ABX style contract? I hardly think not. What good is that contract when you're on the street?
So come on guys/gals it's time to pull together and get this crap behind us. Again, every day without a current contract is a day that we are losing out. WAKE UP!!!
Even if/when Teamsters is voted in how long do you think it will take to get a contract????? And while on this subject . . . do you really think it's a good idea to go after an ABX style contract? I hardly think not. What good is that contract when you're on the street?
So come on guys/gals it's time to pull together and get this crap behind us. Again, every day without a current contract is a day that we are losing out. WAKE UP!!!
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Oh, now I understand, let's see at Fedex, UPS, United etc the senior guys don't get the better lines? They don't get the first shot at the prime vacation slots? Time to wake-up and smell the cappuccino, this is about the only benefit of having spent more time here.
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Fr8dog
The senior guys get the best schedules everywhere you go. And they should. Nobody is argueing that. Again,, like I said in my last post,, JT must not be very senior and is probably getting a little tired of 3 week "bits" at a time. And he's probably been doing that for awhile. He probably wasnt with Atlas at the time you guys agreed to one of the lousiest contracts in aviation history(thats fact). Even junior guys at crappy companies like United are not gone 3 weeks at a time. Thats a little to much. You'd agree with that right????
The senior guys get the best schedules everywhere you go. And they should. Nobody is argueing that. Again,, like I said in my last post,, JT must not be very senior and is probably getting a little tired of 3 week "bits" at a time. And he's probably been doing that for awhile. He probably wasnt with Atlas at the time you guys agreed to one of the lousiest contracts in aviation history(thats fact). Even junior guys at crappy companies like United are not gone 3 weeks at a time. Thats a little to much. You'd agree with that right????
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Originally Posted by dumbdumb
Even if/when Teamsters is voted in how long do you think it will take to get a contract????? And while on this subject . . . do you really think it's a good idea to go after an ABX style contract? I hardly think not. What good is that contract when you're on the street?
So come on guys/gals it's time to pull together and get this crap behind us. Again, every day without a current contract is a day that we are losing out. WAKE UP!!!
So come on guys/gals it's time to pull together and get this crap behind us. Again, every day without a current contract is a day that we are losing out. WAKE UP!!!
As to the ABX style of contract. I don't think anyone is looking to do one company style or another. I think it is going to be "our" style stealing as many examples from other contracts to help us out. Why reinvent the wheel so to speak. As to ABX, they are unfortnate as Astar to have their major customer DHL (only customer of Astar) cut them loose. ABX does have a upper hand due to the fact they have another customer in Japan flying about 6 767's. So they will probably survive though in very small numbers. Astar on the other hand, while getting much fan faired support from ALPA, will probably fall to the way side. Maybe with some "keep out of court severance pay" to the crews.
This is unfortunately what can happen when you are a ACMI company. You loose customers to others or to the original customer. That's why you need a broad customer base.
In all the cases above, when you have lawyers on staff such as ALPA, court costs don't mean much. Makes for good PR also.
I agree a contract is over due and the company is getting a great windfall out of this.
Last edited by nitty-gritty; 12th Sep 2008 at 23:27.
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Heard from someone over at Spirit that their DO, JC (hmmm... another one 
) has just resigned and is heading over to Atlas. Any one heard anything about that or what position he'd be filling?
) has just resigned and is heading over to Atlas. Any one heard anything about that or what position he'd be filling?
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This is unfortunately what can happen when you are a ACMI company. You loose customers to others or to the original customer. That's why you need a broad customer base.
No, that is why you need strong scope lanuage.
No, that is why you need strong scope lanuage.
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I just got done reading the closed thread, and now this one.
Somethings I missed reading atlasforteamsters
1) Where is the proprosed budget of the local, which should include the following itemizations: total income as of today's membership, total dollar amount and percent of local monies to int'l, total dollar amount and percent of monies to lawyer (as a proposed standalone local one would assume they want their own full-time lawyer),
2) exact plans for loss of license/aeromedical team/aviation legal. I mean, God forbid, if I get hurt or violated, what EXACTLY will the teamsters do?
3) exact structure of MEC and organized committees
4) exact outline of what services are provided by the int'l for the dues money flowed uphill
5) names/resumes of all involved in proposed local, and each individual directly above, all the way to Hoffa
6) what about www.irbcases.org?
7) What exact services from, and what monetary contribution to, Local 1224. Which I expect has their handsful with the great furloughs at that airline, and can they be expected to fulfill their obligation to us with such dire probelms at home? If so, are they foregoing their fudiciary responsibilities to their membership if they don't focus 100% of their effort during this time of intense hardship at their own airline?
8) Why did NetJets leave teamsters(was the largest memebership in the airline division)? Why is there an uprising against IBT at RAH (2nd largest group in terms of memebership)?
9) Why would our local recieve professional negotiators when none of the local 747 airlines did?
10) Most importantly, does the magazine subscription fulfill my montly mustache porn quota?
Somethings I missed reading atlasforteamsters
1) Where is the proprosed budget of the local, which should include the following itemizations: total income as of today's membership, total dollar amount and percent of local monies to int'l, total dollar amount and percent of monies to lawyer (as a proposed standalone local one would assume they want their own full-time lawyer),
2) exact plans for loss of license/aeromedical team/aviation legal. I mean, God forbid, if I get hurt or violated, what EXACTLY will the teamsters do?
3) exact structure of MEC and organized committees
4) exact outline of what services are provided by the int'l for the dues money flowed uphill
5) names/resumes of all involved in proposed local, and each individual directly above, all the way to Hoffa
6) what about www.irbcases.org?
7) What exact services from, and what monetary contribution to, Local 1224. Which I expect has their handsful with the great furloughs at that airline, and can they be expected to fulfill their obligation to us with such dire probelms at home? If so, are they foregoing their fudiciary responsibilities to their membership if they don't focus 100% of their effort during this time of intense hardship at their own airline?
8) Why did NetJets leave teamsters(was the largest memebership in the airline division)? Why is there an uprising against IBT at RAH (2nd largest group in terms of memebership)?
9) Why would our local recieve professional negotiators when none of the local 747 airlines did?
10) Most importantly, does the magazine subscription fulfill my montly mustache porn quota?
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Agreed
Originally Posted by layinlow
Polar being a perfect example. I agree with nitty. too many ways to get around it.
At some point, we may mutually agree to merge to help stop one more way management works around us in particular.
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Somethings I missed reading atlasforteamsters
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I was actually going to respond and then thought better of it after noting that I was going to the http://www.atlasforteamsters.com site under Q's and A's, The Facts, Administrative, and Documents to get the answers to many of your questions.
I would think a more informed answer to your questions not address by those pages can be made to their questions email address on the Q's and A's page if it does not involve them repeating themselves.
As to Netjets, you will have to ask them why they left. Just like you would have to ask why USAir left ALPA recently. Forgot how many thousands that was.
Irbcases.org - don't know how to address that one just like I don't know how to address the past Federal investigation of ALPA President Prater for misuse of union funds for flight pay loss payments to some of his council members at pay rates in A/C they were not in and also their working on his election while being paid by the union under flight pay loss. I believe that is a no-no along with a few others things investigated. I don't know if that got dropped or just put on the back burner by the Feds.
Some of what you asked administratively has not been done yet, let alone the fact that ALPA has not been decertified yet. One has to happen before the other can be completed. I believe it states local 1224 would carry out those admin functions until we are up and running. Elections determine some of the infrastructure you are asking about. Positions are similar to the ALPA structure but are not exactly the same. The Administrative Documents link can give you more on that in the bylaws and such.
Financial's I can't comment on to much. I can't even get that out of an established ALPA council and national without jumping through a bunch of hoops. I do understand ALPA is in the red though. Judging from all the new ways they are trying to increase dues i.e. the recent attempt to enforce paying dues on your 401k and the selective council to council funding cuts to the bone seem to reflect that. Let alone the ALPA staffing cuts over the last year.
I know what you mean.
I would think a more informed answer to your questions not address by those pages can be made to their questions email address on the Q's and A's page if it does not involve them repeating themselves.
As to Netjets, you will have to ask them why they left. Just like you would have to ask why USAir left ALPA recently. Forgot how many thousands that was.
Irbcases.org - don't know how to address that one just like I don't know how to address the past Federal investigation of ALPA President Prater for misuse of union funds for flight pay loss payments to some of his council members at pay rates in A/C they were not in and also their working on his election while being paid by the union under flight pay loss. I believe that is a no-no along with a few others things investigated. I don't know if that got dropped or just put on the back burner by the Feds.
Some of what you asked administratively has not been done yet, let alone the fact that ALPA has not been decertified yet. One has to happen before the other can be completed. I believe it states local 1224 would carry out those admin functions until we are up and running. Elections determine some of the infrastructure you are asking about. Positions are similar to the ALPA structure but are not exactly the same. The Administrative Documents link can give you more on that in the bylaws and such.
Financial's I can't comment on to much. I can't even get that out of an established ALPA council and national without jumping through a bunch of hoops. I do understand ALPA is in the red though. Judging from all the new ways they are trying to increase dues i.e. the recent attempt to enforce paying dues on your 401k and the selective council to council funding cuts to the bone seem to reflect that. Let alone the ALPA staffing cuts over the last year.
Originally Posted by 742
clyde87
posts: 1
Here we go again...
posts: 1
Here we go again...
Last edited by nitty-gritty; 15th Sep 2008 at 04:09.
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If I had one post or 1000, would the validity of the questions change? I think not.
I don't see how the number of times I post directly correlates to my aviation experience. Seeing as how the same people argue the same point or 2 points, and neither side budges at all, I could post a million times and it wouldn't matter.
I had concerns, I brought them up. I had a summarily dismissive answer from 742 and a vague/insulting answer from nitty. Why post if genuine concerns are summarily dimissed because I'm not a believer?
I know ALPA has many, many faults. However, it is the known devil. To me, a former IBT airline division memeber, I'm also aware of the enormous faults of the IBT. There will be posts that insult me because I wasn't IBT enough, or I don't hate ALPA enough, or whatever. That's unimportant.
Getting REAL information to sort through instead of topical propaganda prior to changing representation is important. If we choose wrong, we will never be home, we will have no leverage against the company. There are facts that your blessed site omits, ignores or distorts nitty. It's a fact, and I can say so because I WAS an Airline Division Teamster.
But what do I know? I only have 2 posts on pprune.
I don't see how the number of times I post directly correlates to my aviation experience. Seeing as how the same people argue the same point or 2 points, and neither side budges at all, I could post a million times and it wouldn't matter.
I had concerns, I brought them up. I had a summarily dismissive answer from 742 and a vague/insulting answer from nitty. Why post if genuine concerns are summarily dimissed because I'm not a believer?
I know ALPA has many, many faults. However, it is the known devil. To me, a former IBT airline division memeber, I'm also aware of the enormous faults of the IBT. There will be posts that insult me because I wasn't IBT enough, or I don't hate ALPA enough, or whatever. That's unimportant.
Getting REAL information to sort through instead of topical propaganda prior to changing representation is important. If we choose wrong, we will never be home, we will have no leverage against the company. There are facts that your blessed site omits, ignores or distorts nitty. It's a fact, and I can say so because I WAS an Airline Division Teamster.
But what do I know? I only have 2 posts on pprune.