Atlas Polar
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2 Pennies Worth
Sometimes this arguing here gets boring... but for my money, I can't continue to support ALPA.
Both groups talk a good talk, but as far as I'm concerned, ALPA made their real representation case every time they DIDN'T properly represent our interests (Atlas crew force). They started, AFAIK, back during our first contract negotiations and it hasn't gotten any better.
I would consider staying with ALPA if CA Prater came out and
1. Apologized for their past indiscretions re: Atlas.
2. Promised he would personally get involved to insure the Atlas crewforce was properly supported.
3. Put his "money where his mouth is" and take some action to finally stop all the road blocks he's supported in the past and either force the negotiations to really begin, censure those who try to stop them, or any other real action that demostrates he is willing to truly support the combined Atlas/Polar crewforce.
Since that hasn't been forethcoming, as far as I'm concerned, the worst that can happen under IBT is to stop my union's senior leadership from thrawrting our efforts to get a contract. To put it another way, I'm better off with IBT if I only get an occaisional Christmas card from the IBT senior leadership and nothing more. Under ALPA, my Council's leadership, and therefore us, are constantly being thawrted or attacked by my own union!
Both groups talk a good talk, but as far as I'm concerned, ALPA made their real representation case every time they DIDN'T properly represent our interests (Atlas crew force). They started, AFAIK, back during our first contract negotiations and it hasn't gotten any better.
I would consider staying with ALPA if CA Prater came out and
1. Apologized for their past indiscretions re: Atlas.
2. Promised he would personally get involved to insure the Atlas crewforce was properly supported.
3. Put his "money where his mouth is" and take some action to finally stop all the road blocks he's supported in the past and either force the negotiations to really begin, censure those who try to stop them, or any other real action that demostrates he is willing to truly support the combined Atlas/Polar crewforce.
Since that hasn't been forethcoming, as far as I'm concerned, the worst that can happen under IBT is to stop my union's senior leadership from thrawrting our efforts to get a contract. To put it another way, I'm better off with IBT if I only get an occaisional Christmas card from the IBT senior leadership and nothing more. Under ALPA, my Council's leadership, and therefore us, are constantly being thawrted or attacked by my own union!
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I would consider staying with ALPA if CA Prater came out and
1. Apologized for their past indiscretions re: Atlas.
2. Promised he would personally get involved to insure the Atlas crewforce was properly supported.
1. Apologized for their past indiscretions re: Atlas.
2. Promised he would personally get involved to insure the Atlas crewforce was properly supported.
What a lousy %$ SOB!
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Bob Rilly
uhhh... I don't change names 'cause this really was my first post. I will post from time to time on our Council's web board, but that is the extent of my posting.
L-38
Well he's to blame in the same way all leaders are to blame for their groups actions. Also, he's interested enough in putting on the "full court press" with the letter campaign, and I'm glad he's involved because it shows me he (at least appears) interested enough in our staying with ALPA to get personally involved. That said, to be really convincing for me, he needs to do what I said in my first ever post to this board.
I understand this is just one person's opinion and I don't say this to change anyone's mind. Everyone needs to vote and I hope there is some thought behind the vote. I didn't see anyone posting reasons similar to mine, so I took the bold step of posting for the first time. Ah well, back to being a lurker....
Cheers!
uhhh... I don't change names 'cause this really was my first post. I will post from time to time on our Council's web board, but that is the extent of my posting.
L-38
Well he's to blame in the same way all leaders are to blame for their groups actions. Also, he's interested enough in putting on the "full court press" with the letter campaign, and I'm glad he's involved because it shows me he (at least appears) interested enough in our staying with ALPA to get personally involved. That said, to be really convincing for me, he needs to do what I said in my first ever post to this board.
I understand this is just one person's opinion and I don't say this to change anyone's mind. Everyone needs to vote and I hope there is some thought behind the vote. I didn't see anyone posting reasons similar to mine, so I took the bold step of posting for the first time. Ah well, back to being a lurker....
Cheers!
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Posted By rob rilly
Pat B. (Heil) how do you know so much more than anyone at Polar?
Pat B. (Heil) how do you know so much more than anyone at Polar?
To answer your question, I happened to be chatting with someone on 11/22 late afternoon when he got the message concerning the Beckman arbitration. Albeit his question was addressed to the PO side, Nitty asked and I confirmed. So what is it that Rilly bothered you, the fact that an outsider knew before you did?
Tell me Rilly how you feel
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It must be tough to hear what's going on in one's house from the neighbors ... Disinformation is an art & decrypting it requires skill. Non-information is a shame ...
(Example - no Polar mention as of yet of a new grievance)
Last edited by L-38; 4th Dec 2008 at 14:21.
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Yup, as a memeber of both:
ALPA sucks.
IBT sucks worse.
How is it that the local 747 is barely solvent, yet 1224 has a decade of funds saved up? Oh, the int'l will not kick down any money to a local.
ALPA, and all of its shortcomings are known quantities. atlasforteamsters are promises, and a complete set of bylaws, which govern the local, aren't even completed for inspection. So the promises can't be more than a good guess, since the bylaws aren't complete.
the post by trashhauler indicates the responses are Dave Allen's. So since Dave Allen is the "spearhead" of the project, unless DBW is Mr. Allen, I feel that you are merely speculating on the answers.
If you think "ALPA" treats us bad, if IBT is voted in, you'll know what being crapped on is.
And no matter what, a weak group will always be weak. Contract ballots have NO votes too.
ALPA sucks.
IBT sucks worse.
How is it that the local 747 is barely solvent, yet 1224 has a decade of funds saved up? Oh, the int'l will not kick down any money to a local.
ALPA, and all of its shortcomings are known quantities. atlasforteamsters are promises, and a complete set of bylaws, which govern the local, aren't even completed for inspection. So the promises can't be more than a good guess, since the bylaws aren't complete.
the post by trashhauler indicates the responses are Dave Allen's. So since Dave Allen is the "spearhead" of the project, unless DBW is Mr. Allen, I feel that you are merely speculating on the answers.
If you think "ALPA" treats us bad, if IBT is voted in, you'll know what being crapped on is.
And no matter what, a weak group will always be weak. Contract ballots have NO votes too.
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I'm curious how WAZZUP can say that ALPA National isn't involved in the negotiations. Did you not see the letter where Polar MEC will be able to look at the protocall aggreements and vote on them? But even if they don't like them they will be forced to agree with them. So how can you say that National isn't involved?
Look at the spenditures that National has given EACH union. It's MORE than EACH union has contributed in dues. That's enough right there to show that ALPA National is the lessor of two evils.
Do we all to need to agree to disagree??? YES!! But to go to IBT at a critical time such as this is a huge mistake! HUGE! HUGE! HUGE!
Vote ALPA, lick our wounds, and continue on.
Look at the spenditures that National has given EACH union. It's MORE than EACH union has contributed in dues. That's enough right there to show that ALPA National is the lessor of two evils.
Do we all to need to agree to disagree??? YES!! But to go to IBT at a critical time such as this is a huge mistake! HUGE! HUGE! HUGE!
Vote ALPA, lick our wounds, and continue on.
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I still wonder. Why would you vote for an organization that, up until 8 months ago your leadership despised, and despised to the point that they turned in their union pins? And why would you vote for an organization that has a demonstrated history of screwing the non-legacy carriers.
In this case the Polar guys have watched ALPA screw the Atlas guys. So what happens when Polar and Atlas finally merge and there comes an issue between a legacy carrier and AAWH pilots? Do the Polar guys think they will still enjoy the good offices of ALPA in that case?
Do you really think ALPA is the best organization for cargo pilots? Granted IBT under Treichler, if you were in the 747 local was almost as bad (maybe worse). But with our own local and 1000 pilots strong, using the support of the IBT, the AAWH pilots would be much better off than sucking off whatever dregs from the legacy carriers that Prater decides to leave us.
I think that the ONLY reason Bobb doesn't want you to vote IBT is because it is something he thinks we want for some nefarious reason. Ask yourselves what Bobb's agenda is? What does he really want? Wnd why?
More ALPA staff cuts are coming. They are cutting the meat now, not just the fat. How long before there is not enough staff to work our issues?
In this case the Polar guys have watched ALPA screw the Atlas guys. So what happens when Polar and Atlas finally merge and there comes an issue between a legacy carrier and AAWH pilots? Do the Polar guys think they will still enjoy the good offices of ALPA in that case?
Do you really think ALPA is the best organization for cargo pilots? Granted IBT under Treichler, if you were in the 747 local was almost as bad (maybe worse). But with our own local and 1000 pilots strong, using the support of the IBT, the AAWH pilots would be much better off than sucking off whatever dregs from the legacy carriers that Prater decides to leave us.
I think that the ONLY reason Bobb doesn't want you to vote IBT is because it is something he thinks we want for some nefarious reason. Ask yourselves what Bobb's agenda is? What does he really want? Wnd why?
More ALPA staff cuts are coming. They are cutting the meat now, not just the fat. How long before there is not enough staff to work our issues?
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After listening to the ALPA National's recent conference call answers to the Atlas membership (actually lack of answers, a lot of tap dancing around the posed questions, outright miss representations to the crews on many, and outright lies on a couple of issues I have direct knowledge of ) I can see why IBT is coming to the combined group. Of course, the National team on the phone blamed Polar for everything. I'm sure if Polar had a conference with them that they blamed the Atlas membership likewise.
The recent removal of most of the Atlas members from the National Cargo and Safety committees by Prater is another. There is nothing at ALPA for us left. Especailly since they have cut our budget to 1/4 of Polar's and they are less than half the Atlas crewforce size. Tells me everything and why the IBT is next for us.
Also came across this email in response to Pat Walsh's (Fedex MEC) letter to the Atlas membership trying to convince them to stay ALPA. The author inserted his responses in bold and I guess most of us can guess who wrote this judging from style an prose.... I left his name/email off since National is getting rid of all the Atlas guys they can.
The recent removal of most of the Atlas members from the National Cargo and Safety committees by Prater is another. There is nothing at ALPA for us left. Especailly since they have cut our budget to 1/4 of Polar's and they are less than half the Atlas crewforce size. Tells me everything and why the IBT is next for us.
Also came across this email in response to Pat Walsh's (Fedex MEC) letter to the Atlas membership trying to convince them to stay ALPA. The author inserted his responses in bold and I guess most of us can guess who wrote this judging from style an prose.... I left his name/email off since National is getting rid of all the Atlas guys they can.
Captain Pat Walsh, MEC Chairman at ASTAR Air Cargo, has requested that ALPA forward this letter to you.
November 21, 2008
Dear Fellow ALPA Pilots,
I realize that you have an important decision to make, whether or not to leave ALPA for the IBT. Of course, this decision can only be made by the Atlas and Polar pilots, who know the issues better than an outsider like me. Therefore, I won’t try to convince you to stay with ALPA if you don’t want to.
I’d like to point out that this is the same Pat Walsh who not only worked feverishly to revoke our access and membership in favor of Polar’s in GCAP (the Global Cargo Pilots Alliance); begun by Dan Brannan, former DHL/ASTAR MEC Chairman who was a solid Atlas supporter. GCAP is the group who invited us to join them as representative of BOTH Atlas and Polar, and invited Dave Bourne to their meeting in Leipzig that led to Rolf Buttner of ITF/Ver di, the EU trade unions, to visit with us in Miami. The same meeting that Bobb Henderson crashed and referred to us and ABX and Atlas as “scabs” in the presence of Dave Ross from ABX.
The same Pat Walsh who joined the Prater/Helling/York/Luby bandwagon and called Dave Bourne a “scab” a “mobster” and a “union raider.” Whom, when I challenged him about his comments at the May ALPA Executive Board, said he was “just repeating what he had heard from higher ups at ALPA.” Real class act.
But I do want to tell you about our pilot group’s experience with ALPA representation during very challenging times. Since Astar Air Cargo is also an ACMI carrier with about 500 pilots, I think our experience with ALPA is relevant.
Astar is owned by John Dasburg. Who has been selling off ASTAR’s aircraft, leaving older CAT I planes. Something Rolf Buttner spoke about when he came to visit us from Germany in January 2007 when we showed him a CAT II and III approachs in the -400 sim. DHL had just been forced to suffer through a week of no flying by ASTAR because the weather was below their minimums.
Given the train wreck that has occurred during Pat’s tenure and that of his predecessor, it would be better to ask their last real MEC Chairman Dan Brannan, to comment.
As the ASTAR MEC Chairman, I can tell you that our group has received and continues to receive excellent service from ALPA Communications, Legal, and Legislative Affairs staff. After four years of often arduous negotiations, in March of this year we ratified a Collective Bargaining Agreement that is one of the best in the industry. We received a 20 percent pay raise over four years, a decent retro settlement, improved work rules, and improved job security. It was truly an extraordinary achievement, considering DHL was losing over a billion dollars a year. And while our pilots fought hard to achieve this, there is no doubt in my mind that we would not have accomplished this contract without ALPA. In addition to the tens of millions of dollars our pilots received in retro and pay raises, we also obtained a two-year no-furlough clause.
I fully agree that the STAFF of ALPA (with the exception of a small few) are top notch folks. They are what made ALPA the best in the business over the years. Unfortunately, even they are being abused and watching their years of dedication and hard work for pilots…and those who came before them for 77 years…being destroyed by the current elected ALPA National leadership and those who carry his water.
Unfortunately, the Teamster-represented ABX pilots (Local 1224) who also provide DHL lift have not had the benefit of these same ALPA resources. They have been trying to negotiate for four years, have never reached a new agreement with the wage improvements, work rules, and job security provisions that we have, and are now engaged in concessionary bargaining as their airline is downsized.
Pat, that may be true. Sad thing is, Atlas pilots have been trying to negotiate for years too…and will now have to do so in a lousy economy, because in January 2007, John Prater made a promise to conclude the Atlas Polar merger rapidly and get the contract done. Our management has been ready. We (Atlas) have been ready. We have a PID that has been delayed for years because John Prater, Randy Helling, Bob Henderson, Robin Hair and Bruce York and Bob Savelson have stopped it. We Atlas pilots have gone since 2005 being denied access to the JNC process because of Polar and John Prater. Where we could have had a new contract in a sound economy, we will now have to deal with the current economy. Because John Prater lied to us time and time again. Our pilots have gone without fair representation by ALPA. Why have you not spoken up for us Pat?
As I am sure you are aware, in May DHL announced that they plan to reach an agreement with UPS that would have UPS supply all of DHL’s North American air cargo service. Immediately after that announcement, we started fighting to stop DHL and UPS from consummating the agreement with an aggressive media campaign, political lobbying, and litigation. ALPA spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on newspaper ads all over the country and in Germany, staged several picketing events, and lobbied Capitol Hill. In addition to our pilot lobbying efforts, ALPA Legislative Affairs and Legal staff as well as ALPA President, Captain Prater, lobbied on our behalf.
Without taking anything away from the Ohio Congressional delegation or Teamsters Local 1224, who also objected to the agreement on the grounds that it was a violation of antitrust laws, ALPA played the critical role in obtaining the Congressional hearings. And at the hearings, dozens of ASTAR ALPA pilots attended at ALPA’s expense. There was also an impressive display of solidarity with dozens of pilots from other ALPA airlines attending. In addition, ALPA filed a grievance and a lawsuit against DHL, and the ALPA Legal Department will likely be litigating our case in the courts for years to come. ALPA will continue to represent us just as they did the Emory pilots, long after our company ceases operations. Unfortunately, no matter what happens with the DHL/UPS agreement, it is clear that the jobs of all ASTAR and ABX pilots are in jeopardy. However, the fact that we have protections against furlough in our agreement gives us some tools to work with in dealing with this threat. As bad as our current situation is, we are certainly much better off with the new contract that ALPA negotiated.
While this is well written hyperbole from ALPA for you to sign, (maybe not since it was “Emery” not “Emory”), the sad reality is that John Prater made promises in May and throughout the summer about getting a contract done here… and broken each of them as well.
I take comfort knowing that ALPA is there for us now and will continue to be there for us even if we lose our flying to UPS. ALPA recently has been putting lots of resources into assisting furloughed pilots and ALPA pilot groups—Delta is just one example—have recently negotiated preferential hiring opportunities for ALPA pilots who lose jobs because of company shutdowns. You may have noticed the Furloughed Pilot link on the ALPA website.
Pat, while this is laudable, the Atlas pilots and the Atlas MEC, under the leadership of Dave Bourne take a back seat to NO ONE when it comes to helping furloughed pilots with finding employment. We didn’t need to “negotiate” it…we just made a phone call and got it done. We also led the fight in the first secondary strike in support of another ALPA carrier…one where you sat on the sidelines and did nothing. Unlike every other ALPA carrier, one and only one ALPA carrier stood up and did the right thing; and suffered not only the consequences of their company, but that of being called scabs by other ALPA carriers. And only one who stood the test and was proved not guilty…Atlas Air. You have stood openly with those who called us scabs…and now you want us to trust and listen to you as an impartial observer? You either have no memory or no honor. Or both.
As a side note, I am happy that Delta did this. As a former Eastern pilot, I have to wonder how many jobs and families they could have been saved had the taken such an honorable step in March of 1989. Instead of just taking our planes and gates.
Of course, I didn’t mention the improved safety and security that our pilots have benefited from by being in ALPA. Or the international, technical, and industrial expertise that we have received from IFALPA, thanks to our ALPA membership.
A membership (IFALPA) that has been marginalized by Captain Prater’s politization of the process by appointing his flunkies to oversee the actions of ALPA’s appointed IFALPA representative. We must also wonder what was gained by taking numerous representatives of ALPA carriers who did not engage in international operations; but were political allies, to the Mexico City meeting, who walked around according to one foreign participant; “smoking cigars, drinking and acting like a bunch of gangsters.”
Nor did you mention the fact that the Vice Chairman of the National Air Safety Committee was passed over in favor of a political appointment to replace the outgoing USAirways Chairman. And at ALPA Air Safety Week; an event he was critical in organizing and executing this year and years past, he was the ONLY person specifically not recognized by the President of ALPA out of petty political partisanship…an act seen by even those outside ALPA as disgraceful and shallow…beneath the dignity that once was ALPA’s hallmark.
Only the Atlas pilots know the issues and the reasons they should stay or leave ALPA, and I respect that. I just wanted to tell you about our pilots’ experience.
Thank you Pat, our pilots DO know the issues. One thing that Dave Bourne and I prided ourselves upon was in giving our pilots the FACTS…and letting THEM decide.
And Pat, I trust them today to do the same thing. Without your spin, Bill McReynolds or anyone else’s. What I’m really curious about is this. During our sympathy strike for Polar, when the FedEx MEC Chairman called me and branded our pilots scabs and this MEC as scab supporters, Bill McReynolds was silent. When the FedEx pilot who was the Strike Oversight Board representative to Polar during the strike concurred with Polar in writing that Atlas pilots were scabs, nothing was said. You were made aware of Bob Henderson’s comments in January 2007 in Miami when he said in my presence and others that he wanted Polar to be owned by ASTAR so they would not be “scabs” like Atlas was to them or ABX was to you. You’ve said nothing to refute this.
Yet now you tell us you “don’t want to convince us,” and you “respect us.”
Pat, your previous comments about Dave Bourne and your utter silence on other things speaks volumes.
Good luck with your decision and your careers.
In Solidarity,
Patrick Walsh
November 21, 2008
Dear Fellow ALPA Pilots,
I realize that you have an important decision to make, whether or not to leave ALPA for the IBT. Of course, this decision can only be made by the Atlas and Polar pilots, who know the issues better than an outsider like me. Therefore, I won’t try to convince you to stay with ALPA if you don’t want to.
I’d like to point out that this is the same Pat Walsh who not only worked feverishly to revoke our access and membership in favor of Polar’s in GCAP (the Global Cargo Pilots Alliance); begun by Dan Brannan, former DHL/ASTAR MEC Chairman who was a solid Atlas supporter. GCAP is the group who invited us to join them as representative of BOTH Atlas and Polar, and invited Dave Bourne to their meeting in Leipzig that led to Rolf Buttner of ITF/Ver di, the EU trade unions, to visit with us in Miami. The same meeting that Bobb Henderson crashed and referred to us and ABX and Atlas as “scabs” in the presence of Dave Ross from ABX.
The same Pat Walsh who joined the Prater/Helling/York/Luby bandwagon and called Dave Bourne a “scab” a “mobster” and a “union raider.” Whom, when I challenged him about his comments at the May ALPA Executive Board, said he was “just repeating what he had heard from higher ups at ALPA.” Real class act.
But I do want to tell you about our pilot group’s experience with ALPA representation during very challenging times. Since Astar Air Cargo is also an ACMI carrier with about 500 pilots, I think our experience with ALPA is relevant.
Astar is owned by John Dasburg. Who has been selling off ASTAR’s aircraft, leaving older CAT I planes. Something Rolf Buttner spoke about when he came to visit us from Germany in January 2007 when we showed him a CAT II and III approachs in the -400 sim. DHL had just been forced to suffer through a week of no flying by ASTAR because the weather was below their minimums.
Given the train wreck that has occurred during Pat’s tenure and that of his predecessor, it would be better to ask their last real MEC Chairman Dan Brannan, to comment.
As the ASTAR MEC Chairman, I can tell you that our group has received and continues to receive excellent service from ALPA Communications, Legal, and Legislative Affairs staff. After four years of often arduous negotiations, in March of this year we ratified a Collective Bargaining Agreement that is one of the best in the industry. We received a 20 percent pay raise over four years, a decent retro settlement, improved work rules, and improved job security. It was truly an extraordinary achievement, considering DHL was losing over a billion dollars a year. And while our pilots fought hard to achieve this, there is no doubt in my mind that we would not have accomplished this contract without ALPA. In addition to the tens of millions of dollars our pilots received in retro and pay raises, we also obtained a two-year no-furlough clause.
I fully agree that the STAFF of ALPA (with the exception of a small few) are top notch folks. They are what made ALPA the best in the business over the years. Unfortunately, even they are being abused and watching their years of dedication and hard work for pilots…and those who came before them for 77 years…being destroyed by the current elected ALPA National leadership and those who carry his water.
Unfortunately, the Teamster-represented ABX pilots (Local 1224) who also provide DHL lift have not had the benefit of these same ALPA resources. They have been trying to negotiate for four years, have never reached a new agreement with the wage improvements, work rules, and job security provisions that we have, and are now engaged in concessionary bargaining as their airline is downsized.
Pat, that may be true. Sad thing is, Atlas pilots have been trying to negotiate for years too…and will now have to do so in a lousy economy, because in January 2007, John Prater made a promise to conclude the Atlas Polar merger rapidly and get the contract done. Our management has been ready. We (Atlas) have been ready. We have a PID that has been delayed for years because John Prater, Randy Helling, Bob Henderson, Robin Hair and Bruce York and Bob Savelson have stopped it. We Atlas pilots have gone since 2005 being denied access to the JNC process because of Polar and John Prater. Where we could have had a new contract in a sound economy, we will now have to deal with the current economy. Because John Prater lied to us time and time again. Our pilots have gone without fair representation by ALPA. Why have you not spoken up for us Pat?
As I am sure you are aware, in May DHL announced that they plan to reach an agreement with UPS that would have UPS supply all of DHL’s North American air cargo service. Immediately after that announcement, we started fighting to stop DHL and UPS from consummating the agreement with an aggressive media campaign, political lobbying, and litigation. ALPA spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on newspaper ads all over the country and in Germany, staged several picketing events, and lobbied Capitol Hill. In addition to our pilot lobbying efforts, ALPA Legislative Affairs and Legal staff as well as ALPA President, Captain Prater, lobbied on our behalf.
Without taking anything away from the Ohio Congressional delegation or Teamsters Local 1224, who also objected to the agreement on the grounds that it was a violation of antitrust laws, ALPA played the critical role in obtaining the Congressional hearings. And at the hearings, dozens of ASTAR ALPA pilots attended at ALPA’s expense. There was also an impressive display of solidarity with dozens of pilots from other ALPA airlines attending. In addition, ALPA filed a grievance and a lawsuit against DHL, and the ALPA Legal Department will likely be litigating our case in the courts for years to come. ALPA will continue to represent us just as they did the Emory pilots, long after our company ceases operations. Unfortunately, no matter what happens with the DHL/UPS agreement, it is clear that the jobs of all ASTAR and ABX pilots are in jeopardy. However, the fact that we have protections against furlough in our agreement gives us some tools to work with in dealing with this threat. As bad as our current situation is, we are certainly much better off with the new contract that ALPA negotiated.
While this is well written hyperbole from ALPA for you to sign, (maybe not since it was “Emery” not “Emory”), the sad reality is that John Prater made promises in May and throughout the summer about getting a contract done here… and broken each of them as well.
I take comfort knowing that ALPA is there for us now and will continue to be there for us even if we lose our flying to UPS. ALPA recently has been putting lots of resources into assisting furloughed pilots and ALPA pilot groups—Delta is just one example—have recently negotiated preferential hiring opportunities for ALPA pilots who lose jobs because of company shutdowns. You may have noticed the Furloughed Pilot link on the ALPA website.
Pat, while this is laudable, the Atlas pilots and the Atlas MEC, under the leadership of Dave Bourne take a back seat to NO ONE when it comes to helping furloughed pilots with finding employment. We didn’t need to “negotiate” it…we just made a phone call and got it done. We also led the fight in the first secondary strike in support of another ALPA carrier…one where you sat on the sidelines and did nothing. Unlike every other ALPA carrier, one and only one ALPA carrier stood up and did the right thing; and suffered not only the consequences of their company, but that of being called scabs by other ALPA carriers. And only one who stood the test and was proved not guilty…Atlas Air. You have stood openly with those who called us scabs…and now you want us to trust and listen to you as an impartial observer? You either have no memory or no honor. Or both.
As a side note, I am happy that Delta did this. As a former Eastern pilot, I have to wonder how many jobs and families they could have been saved had the taken such an honorable step in March of 1989. Instead of just taking our planes and gates.
Of course, I didn’t mention the improved safety and security that our pilots have benefited from by being in ALPA. Or the international, technical, and industrial expertise that we have received from IFALPA, thanks to our ALPA membership.
A membership (IFALPA) that has been marginalized by Captain Prater’s politization of the process by appointing his flunkies to oversee the actions of ALPA’s appointed IFALPA representative. We must also wonder what was gained by taking numerous representatives of ALPA carriers who did not engage in international operations; but were political allies, to the Mexico City meeting, who walked around according to one foreign participant; “smoking cigars, drinking and acting like a bunch of gangsters.”
Nor did you mention the fact that the Vice Chairman of the National Air Safety Committee was passed over in favor of a political appointment to replace the outgoing USAirways Chairman. And at ALPA Air Safety Week; an event he was critical in organizing and executing this year and years past, he was the ONLY person specifically not recognized by the President of ALPA out of petty political partisanship…an act seen by even those outside ALPA as disgraceful and shallow…beneath the dignity that once was ALPA’s hallmark.
Only the Atlas pilots know the issues and the reasons they should stay or leave ALPA, and I respect that. I just wanted to tell you about our pilots’ experience.
Thank you Pat, our pilots DO know the issues. One thing that Dave Bourne and I prided ourselves upon was in giving our pilots the FACTS…and letting THEM decide.
And Pat, I trust them today to do the same thing. Without your spin, Bill McReynolds or anyone else’s. What I’m really curious about is this. During our sympathy strike for Polar, when the FedEx MEC Chairman called me and branded our pilots scabs and this MEC as scab supporters, Bill McReynolds was silent. When the FedEx pilot who was the Strike Oversight Board representative to Polar during the strike concurred with Polar in writing that Atlas pilots were scabs, nothing was said. You were made aware of Bob Henderson’s comments in January 2007 in Miami when he said in my presence and others that he wanted Polar to be owned by ASTAR so they would not be “scabs” like Atlas was to them or ABX was to you. You’ve said nothing to refute this.
Yet now you tell us you “don’t want to convince us,” and you “respect us.”
Pat, your previous comments about Dave Bourne and your utter silence on other things speaks volumes.
Good luck with your decision and your careers.
In Solidarity,
Patrick Walsh
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Hmm... pretty slick. Since I work with Capt. Walsh personally, I can say without reservation that whoever was writing these comments into his letter is full of horse dung. End of story.
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Originally Posted by hvydrvr
Hmm... pretty slick. Since I work with Capt. Walsh personally, I can say without reservation that whoever was writing these comments into his letter is full of horse dung. End of story.
Originally Posted by nitty-gritty
Having been present for a fair chunk of what was commented on by the author makes me question how much you work with Capt Walsh and in what capacity.
Originally Posted by Pat Walsh
ALPA will continue to represent us just as they did the Emory pilots, long after our company ceases operations. Unfortunately, no matter what happens with the DHL/UPS agreement, it is clear that the jobs of all ASTAR and ABX pilots are in jeopardy. However, the fact that we have protections against furlough in our agreement gives us some tools to work with in dealing with this threat. As bad as our current situation is, we are certainly much better off with the new contract that ALPA negotiated.
Originally Posted by Former EVP ALPA & MEC Chairman
November 21, 2008
RE: Response To
Captain Pat Walsh’s
Letter and comment (specifically Emery)
Gentlemen,
I found Captain Walsh’s statement somewhat misleading and although I would like to give Pat the benefit of the doubt, my experience with ALPA’s disingenuous approach to representation, is that Pat’s comments belie what he may really be doing in hopes of further employment, i.e. Jeff Haddock (Emery-now FEDEX), David Webb (FEDEX) (discussed in further detail below). The Stark Reality is: None of the leadership from Emery was ever approached on this topic by ALPA or any of their representatives including Captain Pat Walsh for a reason. Not the Former MEC Chairman & ALPA EVP Tom Rachford. Not the closing Chairman, Mark Luthi nor Vice Chairman Wendy Albright who was elected by 100% of the vote (even the individual running against her voted in her favor).
I will encapsulate the high points as the breadth of this text could easily outstrip what is meant to be a simple missive rather than an extended tome.
Emery Worldwide Airlines Flight Crewmembers voted ALPA as its bargaining agent in July of 1997. Emery had horrific maintenance issues—literally life and death. ALPA garnered this privilege on its supposed merits including, ALPA’s mantra of “One Level of Safety”, their reported history towards the abuse by managements toward flight personnel and poor maintained equipment—and specifically a promise by then President Randy Babbit to myself and our pilot group to make Emery the “Poster Child” in highlighting what occurred on the back side of the clock with Freight Pilots.
Over 150 reports were compiled and handed to ALPA National detailing various maintenance issues, flight time abuses by managements etc. All of these documents detailed incidents prior to ALPA’s representation. ALL went mysteriously missing from the ALPA Safety Department. Prior to Emery’s Crash on February 16, 2000 in Sacramento California the leadership received little to no assistance with a myriad of safety issues. In a nine month period prior to the crash crews experience hydraulic failures, engines overtemps—some requiring shutdowns, depressurizations, wheels falling off on landings, brakes seizing to the degree all mains were blown, fuel tanks that leaked profusely and on one occasion a Main Cargo door coming open on rotation.
Despite the above ALPA chose to sit on the sideline until the accident and then became only involved in deflecting their blame and that of the FAA. The Emery leadership fought for a public hearing but was dismissed by National and more specifically Duane Woerth even though they vigorously supported the NTSB hearing on the Alaskan DC-9 crash that had preceded Emery’s accident by just two weeks. I personally lobbied on Capital Hill on behalf of the families and with the assistance of various legislators, then NTSB Board Member John Goglia and with one specific family member finally secured a public hearing. I was then told by the Chairman of the Safety Dept, Duane Woerth, and Howard Attarian that it was none of my business and that dealing with Senators and Congressmen was Duane’s domain and no one else’s. On the day of the hearing I was replaced as the representative for the Emery Pilots by FedEx’s Pilot group Chair, David Webb. Not only did David know nothing about our crash or the DC-8—FEDEX was not even yet part of the Airline Pilots Association!
As incredulous as this may seem the following submits more for an understanding of the ability to manipulate the leadership by extorting members of that Leadership and by the manipulation of the Constitution and By-laws.
Jeff Haddock was one of the negotiating members representing the Emery Pilots and yet with the assistance of Duane Woerth using then Executive Administrator Howard Attarian usurped the process and was able to become the Negotiating Chairman. Jeff and ALPA then negotiated a contract that was forced upon the MEC Chairman (Tom Rachford) and then the Emery Worldwide Crewmembers.
ALPA insisted it was the “Best First Contract in the Industry”. This and with Duane’s manipulation of the negotiations and the NMB left little maneuvering for myself as chairman. Less than a year later 505 crewmembers were out of work. ALPA then refused to ask for any injunctions preventing others from doing our flying. Instead they wanted to settle a 400 million dollar contract for 17million. It took years of litigation to stop ALPA from settling. Unfortunately they still were able to settle for half the group for about 10 million. What was wrong with the contract? Why did ALPA fight litigation and an arbitration process? Because it was ALPA that changed the language in “Boiler Plate Language” in the SIDE LETTER OF AGREEMENT, whereas it described that an airline must do everything in it’s power to meet the standards and safety requirements of the FAA ( to) “being shut down by a government agency” as being sufficient to meet the force majeure standards (impossibility). This despite all that was occurring on the property and all the problems Emery was having on a daily if not hourly basis with the FAA This boiler plate language was in the then US Air Contract and the DHL Contract.
What did ALPA gain? They got rid of Emery and the problems associated with it. They protected their political currency with the FAA who had sat on the sidelines for years concerning Emery and were one of the focal points of the hearing. And they got FEDEX to join ALPA partly because of a multi-billion dollar contract Emery lost to FEDEX.
Juxtaposed, it is hard to see Connie Kalitta airlines recently with two crashes in the space of six weeks. They’re not shut down. But with ALPA and the help of the FAA, a six billion dollar corporation (CNF), is shut down “OUT OF THE BLUE”, allowing the Airline a get out of jail card with the Emery Pilots so called “Best First Contract in the Industry ”and ALPA the ability to hide from its 3-4 misrepresentation of the Emery Pilots. Pretty Slick.
I wished I had done more homework and been less trusting. I wish I had talked with the Eastern Pilots (largest airline in the free world at that time), or with the Continental pilots, Braniff etc. ASK the now out of business ATA pilots if leaving the Teamsters for ALPA was such a good idea. Or better ASK a TWA pilot if ALPA really wanted to represent them or was Duane (ALPA) working to secure American.
My father was a United Captain. This “ALPA” is not the same “ALPA” my father praised. In fact Pa made the comment Duane always looked more like he was running for political office. I think the recent event concerning Duane and the FAA put Pa—Right on Point.
All of you must choose what is best for you and your families. In addition to the leaderships roles I held above I was the President of the Local representing TIA (Trans International Airlines) in the late 80’s under the Teamsters. There is no question what my decision would be today.
In conclusion if you remember only one thing about all of this:
ALPA removed “ALL” of the leadership and put into place using their “Constitution and By Laws” a Custodian to circumvent the Emery Pilots, their leadership and pervert the justice system. The Custodians name. Jeff Haddock. The only pilot since hired by FEDEX from Emery.
Wishing you all the best in making your decision;
RE: Response To
Captain Pat Walsh’s
Letter and comment (specifically Emery)
Gentlemen,
I found Captain Walsh’s statement somewhat misleading and although I would like to give Pat the benefit of the doubt, my experience with ALPA’s disingenuous approach to representation, is that Pat’s comments belie what he may really be doing in hopes of further employment, i.e. Jeff Haddock (Emery-now FEDEX), David Webb (FEDEX) (discussed in further detail below). The Stark Reality is: None of the leadership from Emery was ever approached on this topic by ALPA or any of their representatives including Captain Pat Walsh for a reason. Not the Former MEC Chairman & ALPA EVP Tom Rachford. Not the closing Chairman, Mark Luthi nor Vice Chairman Wendy Albright who was elected by 100% of the vote (even the individual running against her voted in her favor).
I will encapsulate the high points as the breadth of this text could easily outstrip what is meant to be a simple missive rather than an extended tome.
Emery Worldwide Airlines Flight Crewmembers voted ALPA as its bargaining agent in July of 1997. Emery had horrific maintenance issues—literally life and death. ALPA garnered this privilege on its supposed merits including, ALPA’s mantra of “One Level of Safety”, their reported history towards the abuse by managements toward flight personnel and poor maintained equipment—and specifically a promise by then President Randy Babbit to myself and our pilot group to make Emery the “Poster Child” in highlighting what occurred on the back side of the clock with Freight Pilots.
Over 150 reports were compiled and handed to ALPA National detailing various maintenance issues, flight time abuses by managements etc. All of these documents detailed incidents prior to ALPA’s representation. ALL went mysteriously missing from the ALPA Safety Department. Prior to Emery’s Crash on February 16, 2000 in Sacramento California the leadership received little to no assistance with a myriad of safety issues. In a nine month period prior to the crash crews experience hydraulic failures, engines overtemps—some requiring shutdowns, depressurizations, wheels falling off on landings, brakes seizing to the degree all mains were blown, fuel tanks that leaked profusely and on one occasion a Main Cargo door coming open on rotation.
Despite the above ALPA chose to sit on the sideline until the accident and then became only involved in deflecting their blame and that of the FAA. The Emery leadership fought for a public hearing but was dismissed by National and more specifically Duane Woerth even though they vigorously supported the NTSB hearing on the Alaskan DC-9 crash that had preceded Emery’s accident by just two weeks. I personally lobbied on Capital Hill on behalf of the families and with the assistance of various legislators, then NTSB Board Member John Goglia and with one specific family member finally secured a public hearing. I was then told by the Chairman of the Safety Dept, Duane Woerth, and Howard Attarian that it was none of my business and that dealing with Senators and Congressmen was Duane’s domain and no one else’s. On the day of the hearing I was replaced as the representative for the Emery Pilots by FedEx’s Pilot group Chair, David Webb. Not only did David know nothing about our crash or the DC-8—FEDEX was not even yet part of the Airline Pilots Association!
As incredulous as this may seem the following submits more for an understanding of the ability to manipulate the leadership by extorting members of that Leadership and by the manipulation of the Constitution and By-laws.
Jeff Haddock was one of the negotiating members representing the Emery Pilots and yet with the assistance of Duane Woerth using then Executive Administrator Howard Attarian usurped the process and was able to become the Negotiating Chairman. Jeff and ALPA then negotiated a contract that was forced upon the MEC Chairman (Tom Rachford) and then the Emery Worldwide Crewmembers.
ALPA insisted it was the “Best First Contract in the Industry”. This and with Duane’s manipulation of the negotiations and the NMB left little maneuvering for myself as chairman. Less than a year later 505 crewmembers were out of work. ALPA then refused to ask for any injunctions preventing others from doing our flying. Instead they wanted to settle a 400 million dollar contract for 17million. It took years of litigation to stop ALPA from settling. Unfortunately they still were able to settle for half the group for about 10 million. What was wrong with the contract? Why did ALPA fight litigation and an arbitration process? Because it was ALPA that changed the language in “Boiler Plate Language” in the SIDE LETTER OF AGREEMENT, whereas it described that an airline must do everything in it’s power to meet the standards and safety requirements of the FAA ( to) “being shut down by a government agency” as being sufficient to meet the force majeure standards (impossibility). This despite all that was occurring on the property and all the problems Emery was having on a daily if not hourly basis with the FAA This boiler plate language was in the then US Air Contract and the DHL Contract.
What did ALPA gain? They got rid of Emery and the problems associated with it. They protected their political currency with the FAA who had sat on the sidelines for years concerning Emery and were one of the focal points of the hearing. And they got FEDEX to join ALPA partly because of a multi-billion dollar contract Emery lost to FEDEX.
Juxtaposed, it is hard to see Connie Kalitta airlines recently with two crashes in the space of six weeks. They’re not shut down. But with ALPA and the help of the FAA, a six billion dollar corporation (CNF), is shut down “OUT OF THE BLUE”, allowing the Airline a get out of jail card with the Emery Pilots so called “Best First Contract in the Industry ”and ALPA the ability to hide from its 3-4 misrepresentation of the Emery Pilots. Pretty Slick.
I wished I had done more homework and been less trusting. I wish I had talked with the Eastern Pilots (largest airline in the free world at that time), or with the Continental pilots, Braniff etc. ASK the now out of business ATA pilots if leaving the Teamsters for ALPA was such a good idea. Or better ASK a TWA pilot if ALPA really wanted to represent them or was Duane (ALPA) working to secure American.
My father was a United Captain. This “ALPA” is not the same “ALPA” my father praised. In fact Pa made the comment Duane always looked more like he was running for political office. I think the recent event concerning Duane and the FAA put Pa—Right on Point.
All of you must choose what is best for you and your families. In addition to the leaderships roles I held above I was the President of the Local representing TIA (Trans International Airlines) in the late 80’s under the Teamsters. There is no question what my decision would be today.
In conclusion if you remember only one thing about all of this:
ALPA removed “ALL” of the leadership and put into place using their “Constitution and By Laws” a Custodian to circumvent the Emery Pilots, their leadership and pervert the justice system. The Custodians name. Jeff Haddock. The only pilot since hired by FEDEX from Emery.
Wishing you all the best in making your decision;
DBW