The Great PO/5Y Debate
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Originally Posted by layinlow
Agreed. This forum is more about the arbitration hearings which happened yesterday. Let's keep it to that subject only.
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Now I am confused. I thought the hearings were over the expedited hearing issue and the downgrading and furlough of Polar crews while Atlas is flying Polar schedules, civilian and military. Enlighten me please. Anf please stay on subject.
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The "SCAB" Alternative Hearing. Instead of just suing the Polar MEC and others.
Heard this week. One Polar guy showed up on the Polar side to testify.
The set aside lawsuit info and the ALPA hearing info of those that wanted to spend there money in defense of their names because of ALPA's previous limp way of handling the situation HERE IN PDF.
Answers most of your questions if you decide to read it, but why let facts get in the way of what you want.
Heard this week. One Polar guy showed up on the Polar side to testify.
The set aside lawsuit info and the ALPA hearing info of those that wanted to spend there money in defense of their names because of ALPA's previous limp way of handling the situation HERE IN PDF.
Answers most of your questions if you decide to read it, but why let facts get in the way of what you want.
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Ygtbsm
Please tell me how YOU know Polar freight was on an Atlas flight and NOT on FEDEX, UPS, or NWA? Were you at any aircraft checking the airwaybills? I know for a fact Atlas pilots were. Do you think FEDEX, UPS, or NWA pilots even gave a damn? Wake the hell up! 
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So tell me ruger If United went on strike and the passengers all went over to Delta, would those be Delta passengers or would the UAL pilots accuse Delta pilots of being Scabs?
Should the Delta Pilots stand in the door and ask each individual passenger if they were in fact a previous UAL passenger. And then if any of those passengers said "yes I was on a United flight" then the Delta Pilot would refuse to fly?? Why is freight any different?
That's what Polar expected the Atlas pilots to do during their one hour pre-flight. They wanted the Atlas pilots to go through each and every way-bill to try to determine if it was Polar freight and not to fly the aircraft if it had any freight on it that might be considered Polar. How ridiculous is that! There were not, nor are their now, any comprehensive struck freight rules.
In Polar's case they even wanted the Atlas pilots to refuse to fly if the airplane had any freight on it that came from a previous Polar customer.
Should the Delta Pilots stand in the door and ask each individual passenger if they were in fact a previous UAL passenger. And then if any of those passengers said "yes I was on a United flight" then the Delta Pilot would refuse to fly?? Why is freight any different?
That's what Polar expected the Atlas pilots to do during their one hour pre-flight. They wanted the Atlas pilots to go through each and every way-bill to try to determine if it was Polar freight and not to fly the aircraft if it had any freight on it that might be considered Polar. How ridiculous is that! There were not, nor are their now, any comprehensive struck freight rules.
In Polar's case they even wanted the Atlas pilots to refuse to fly if the airplane had any freight on it that came from a previous Polar customer.
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Battle Stars !!!! That is just too funny. I see Polar Crews wearing Battle Stars, because the went on strike, and you want them for flying their freight. Too Funny! You got proof the others flew Polar freight? Polar has waybills from Atlas flying Polar freight. Battle Stars ! HA ! And it's "RUGR," can't you read ? No wonder you had trouble reading Waybills !
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you still didn't answer the question. Typical.
And your name looks like Ruger to me. Ruger as in gun? Is that an implied threat to Atlas pilots? What is your other name on this board?
The battle stars are for supporting your strike. Bobb knew that the ONLY way he was going to get ANYTHING from management was to involve the Atlas pilots. Why do you think you only went to the airport when an Atlas plane was on the ground or coming in or leaving. Everyone else on the planet was hauling freight marked for Polar yet you were only picketing when an Atlas plane was on the ground.
You guys deserve battle stars even less than the Atlas Pilots do. You got battle stars for parking a car in front of the airport and leaving a sign on it? And for having your wives chase a van down (that had no Atlas pilots in it) while swearing and hitting the van with a sign? Give me a break!
And your name looks like Ruger to me. Ruger as in gun? Is that an implied threat to Atlas pilots? What is your other name on this board?
The battle stars are for supporting your strike. Bobb knew that the ONLY way he was going to get ANYTHING from management was to involve the Atlas pilots. Why do you think you only went to the airport when an Atlas plane was on the ground or coming in or leaving. Everyone else on the planet was hauling freight marked for Polar yet you were only picketing when an Atlas plane was on the ground.
You guys deserve battle stars even less than the Atlas Pilots do. You got battle stars for parking a car in front of the airport and leaving a sign on it? And for having your wives chase a van down (that had no Atlas pilots in it) while swearing and hitting the van with a sign? Give me a break!
Last edited by WhaleFR8; 3rd Nov 2007 at 23:33.
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Originally Posted by furloughed
Did the Atlas guys ever get those battle stars the MEC promised?
A resolution was forwarded to the recent ALPA Executive council meeting for the Battle Stars for Atlas crewmembers. That resolution vote was put on hold until the Executive Vice President representing Polar has time to review how it was done at another carrier (Northwest). So it wasn't voted down, just delayed at the hands of the Executive Vice President representing Polar at the council meeting.
A second (the last minute one requested by a number of the Executive Council from the Atlas MEC) resolution was forwarded as above to motivate Polar to go forward with the merger. It was resolved to hold that vote until the current Polar arbitration with the company on the merger was resolved.
Not quite what cptvac would want you to believe.
I have some more stuff on the ALPA Alternative Hearing of the Illegal SCAB list. I'm going to hold off putting it out until I get confirmation that the hearing has adjourned. May have more stuff by then anyway.
On another note,
I don't remember anyone on the Polar side digging through airway bills, checking freight, or going on a sympathy strike like Atlas did. I think the only thing that Polar did was have one of the MEC monitor the loads from the company office in Purchase NY during our final hour (Greg Dimoff or Denim Yarger?) and then Chairman Fell volunteering his membership to fly Atlas struck A/C and contracts. What overwhelming support. Thanks for all that effort.
Having said that, we do know that some Atlas freight did go on Polar prior to and after. No we didn't go on strike in the end. It became more important to keep our guys in the cockpits with Polar, AACS, GSS, and the other contracted carriers at the ready to replace us. They had already been replacing us for some time as we were shrunk with our A/C, contracts going to Polar and with furloughs. Atlas furloughs equal in expansion of Polar, AACS, GSS. Lorenzo would be proud of Atlas management on how they handled it. Of course, a majority of them were Lorenzo lieutenants from those days. After all of this, we didn't start a hate campaign against Polar. We only brought this all up after being attacked by the Polar MEC and membership.
I would also like to note that other NON-UNION airlines were contracted to fly our stuff and were flying it prior to the deadline and afterwards under the clauses in the contract Atlas signed with them. These guys didn't have a choice what so ever and we at Atlas didn't like it, but we didn't start a hate campaign against either. We knew they were up against a wall.
Last edited by mercpc9; 4th Nov 2007 at 11:08.
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When, if ever did Atlas get their own freight system? That outta go down with Battle Stars. Never see any ads for Atlas Freight. Kev Mc can you answer that one?
And there you go, they were NON-UNION ! Nuf said.
And there you go, they were NON-UNION ! Nuf said.
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Why do we continually bait and taunt each other over this?
The strike's actual history is well documented, and while having personally experienced those days, I know of equal heroes on both sides. . . . However I also know of a few overzealous Polar Indians that had become an embarrassment to the fraternity (one idiot in his crazed zeal actually came very close to getting himself fired).
Most likely a few "Indians" also populate Atlas Air as well (only the Atlas folk know who they are), so in knowing this, when will this strike issue finally become a dead horse??
I believe that the rank and file of both sides understood their limits on what needed to be done. Those that did not, soon learned.
. . .and about ex MEC Chair Robert Fell . . . . if true . . . what an embarrassment in the highs and lows of the Polar MEC!
The strike's actual history is well documented, and while having personally experienced those days, I know of equal heroes on both sides. . . . However I also know of a few overzealous Polar Indians that had become an embarrassment to the fraternity (one idiot in his crazed zeal actually came very close to getting himself fired).
Most likely a few "Indians" also populate Atlas Air as well (only the Atlas folk know who they are), so in knowing this, when will this strike issue finally become a dead horse??
I believe that the rank and file of both sides understood their limits on what needed to be done. Those that did not, soon learned.
. . .and about ex MEC Chair Robert Fell . . . . if true . . . what an embarrassment in the highs and lows of the Polar MEC!
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I agree, the water has long passed under the bridge and with the exception of a few on each side, no body give a s#*t. Let's move on. The hearings were and will be soon heard, the decision will be what it is and that is it; then you can bitch, but let's leave it alone for now!!
Maybe we need a new thread, Polar/Atlas bitches. Yeah, that would work.
Maybe we need a new thread, Polar/Atlas bitches. Yeah, that would work.
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Happy Monday Merc
"He" wasn't wrong at all...
What Cptvac posted is that the resolutions were not adopted. They weren't.
Neither resolution was on the agenda. They were put forth as "Emergency" resolutions late in the day after the Polar Representative was told there was no more Polar business worth staying for, and left. Typical. Even Prater was blindsided (and offended). As was the majority of the EC.
The "Emergency" resolution aimed at derailing Polar Crewmembers legal efforts in defense of their contract was put "on hold" until January... when Polars' legal battles will be finished. Some "Emergency"...guess the EC did not share Mr. Bournes' urgency.
Battlestars? My return envelope is addressed and ready...just in case.
Next.
"He" wasn't wrong at all...
What Cptvac posted is that the resolutions were not adopted. They weren't.
Neither resolution was on the agenda. They were put forth as "Emergency" resolutions late in the day after the Polar Representative was told there was no more Polar business worth staying for, and left. Typical. Even Prater was blindsided (and offended). As was the majority of the EC.
The "Emergency" resolution aimed at derailing Polar Crewmembers legal efforts in defense of their contract was put "on hold" until January... when Polars' legal battles will be finished. Some "Emergency"...guess the EC did not share Mr. Bournes' urgency.
Battlestars? My return envelope is addressed and ready...just in case.
Next.