Atlas STN
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Future Atlas pilots, you have to realize if your looking for a chance to fly what only 5% of the pilots ever see and do, where you fly every other day internationally overnighting in safe comfortable hotels in exciting citys....take a breath now...ah ah and be treated like scum which you are in managements sights, only to be on property for a short amount of time as your fate has been predetermined by the hedgefund owners of AAWW (76%). To be a employee of an american company overseas does not represent you in the "fair labor act". Discrimination exsists if you've been paying attension to these posts, those that have travel credit,,and you will not, those that start in their american base,, and you will never see one, those with gate way,,only a dream for those without and a grievance / lawsuit in the present because Schmattless has taxed that travel (home to base). Without the "fair labor act" and not haveing a licensed British work permit this leaves you like a lost soul only to reach out to the "railway labor act". If you have been reading ALPO has not much grasp on todays companys nor remotely protecting the rights of its rank n file. But you can count on paying 1.95% of your gross income to dues. You basically can grieve your pay issues, scheduling, travel credit, training issues but ALPO will give you the standard answer "we will have to fix that on the next contract"! The only place where seniority exsists at Atlas is "outbasing". The perennial thorn in union, if you only flew your line we would need more pilots, more captain slots.
New hire do you see some thread of consistancy here. It is a diverse group of pilots but the largest of non cohesive union brotherhood exsists here at Atlas. The Polar pilot is the opposite and is an issue of contension that I personally doubt the BOD would allow the two pilot groups to share the cockpit together. Fights would break out. You can expect to share difficult scheduling issues like being extended your "4 days" and this will reach into another month and find yourself out for in excess of 30 days. Add this to a very difficult commute. Every time you talk to scheduling or Travel in regards to your ending of your trip you will feel like you have to "ask permission" and something in the form of graveling. Also you will find an attitude of majority of "mission oriented" Captain operation. This is a systemic problem that will reach into all areas of the operation. Maintenance, scheduling, loading. What eva it takes! Some people get caught up in the FAA's gun sites and break FAR's. It could be a simple duty time reg and overlooked because your feeling dog tired. This is by far the toughest type of flying you will ever put your body through. This is not the Legacy Carriers. This is Schmattless. A stepping stone, and surely to make any marriage or relationship enter into troubled waters.
New hire do you see some thread of consistancy here. It is a diverse group of pilots but the largest of non cohesive union brotherhood exsists here at Atlas. The Polar pilot is the opposite and is an issue of contension that I personally doubt the BOD would allow the two pilot groups to share the cockpit together. Fights would break out. You can expect to share difficult scheduling issues like being extended your "4 days" and this will reach into another month and find yourself out for in excess of 30 days. Add this to a very difficult commute. Every time you talk to scheduling or Travel in regards to your ending of your trip you will feel like you have to "ask permission" and something in the form of graveling. Also you will find an attitude of majority of "mission oriented" Captain operation. This is a systemic problem that will reach into all areas of the operation. Maintenance, scheduling, loading. What eva it takes! Some people get caught up in the FAA's gun sites and break FAR's. It could be a simple duty time reg and overlooked because your feeling dog tired. This is by far the toughest type of flying you will ever put your body through. This is not the Legacy Carriers. This is Schmattless. A stepping stone, and surely to make any marriage or relationship enter into troubled waters.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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I would agree, this is not remotely similar to Legacy Carrier Flying or commuter flying.
I've notice a large volume of crew members (victims of downsizing) that come from those carriers which don't stay very long usually. It's definetly not what their used to. I also agree that many of the Atlas crewmembers are easily intimidated by management. They have been beaten on for a long time and have the highest number of disciplinary actions against crewmembers amoung all of the ALPA carriers (per ALPA legal department stats).
Atlas has had a very long road getting unionized and contending with union busting constructs like STN, AACS(now AABO) and others to get what little decent treatment we currently enjoy. If you signup here, please be ready to fight and not be meek. We have too many of the latter and not enough of the former.
Someday, we may be able to brag about working here. As it is, I can't say that now.
mercpc9
I've notice a large volume of crew members (victims of downsizing) that come from those carriers which don't stay very long usually. It's definetly not what their used to. I also agree that many of the Atlas crewmembers are easily intimidated by management. They have been beaten on for a long time and have the highest number of disciplinary actions against crewmembers amoung all of the ALPA carriers (per ALPA legal department stats).
Atlas has had a very long road getting unionized and contending with union busting constructs like STN, AACS(now AABO) and others to get what little decent treatment we currently enjoy. If you signup here, please be ready to fight and not be meek. We have too many of the latter and not enough of the former.
Someday, we may be able to brag about working here. As it is, I can't say that now.
mercpc9
Join Date: Jan 2006
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merc,
The eye ball really freaks me out! Can you like, make it look away and stay still?
The eye ball really freaks me out! Can you like, make it look away and stay still?
On the subject of hiring, here is a streaming mp3 of the Atlas Union VARS covering hiring (30-50 new hires), STN and also a stab at the company for making remarks in managements weekly voice message to the slaves over a previous union message. I would put the company voice message up, but the company said they will fire anyone spreading company info. Gee, imagine that.
Atlas Union VARS in mp3 streaming format.
Like I said before. If you choose to sign up, be prepared for a fight that has been long going. If you hire on, we would like you to be on the union side of it.
Last edited by mercpc9; 23rd Apr 2007 at 13:55.
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Edited from another blog. . . Caputo's VARS implies that Atlas crews are forced to fly extra days every month, however 100+ Polar crew members reluctantly sit at home, but on full pay. The management (Cato's) skills with these airlines are truly amazing!
Join Date: May 2000
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Truly amazing is right. But whats make it even more amazing is that last year they reported record profits. I predict record 1Q 2007 profits as well, even paying Polaroids to sit at home?
The stock has been on quit a run. New 52 week high in the last week. Rated by Money magazine as one the of top ten stocks to own for the next ten years.
The stock has been on quit a run. New 52 week high in the last week. Rated by Money magazine as one the of top ten stocks to own for the next ten years.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Atlas pilots ARE FORCED to work extra days, courtesy of the contract (both ALPA and AABO) which the company is taking advantage of.
ALPA pilots - work 17 days and up to 4 days extra if required by the company.
Since Atlas is so short-staffed, most pilots are being involutary extended those 4 days. Add on an extra day or 2 to commute to/from Europe if you live in the states and you have NO LIFE. If you are a STN F/O, you WILL be gone from the US about 22 days EACH and every month. They way you could possibly be scheduled it is possible to be out on the line over 42 days! 17 days+4 extra+17 days + 4 extra as you carry a line from one month into the next.
Since all new hires are STN based with NO travel benefits you will have to rely on the generousity of other carrriers to get you to and from Europe using the jumpseat. By the way, that generousity is wearing thin with a few carriers already. In the summer months the commute is EXTREMELY stressful since flights are full and you would face disciplinary action for not making it to work on time (usually FRA, AMS, GOT, or London).
If for some reason you can't make it to work, the company's answer is:
1) You knew about the commute when you agreed to work here.
2) Well, I guess you have to buy a ticket. $$$$$$
3) You should have left a day earlier so standy for disciplinary action.
As a new hire, you are a probationary ALPA member. You don't pay dues but the union can't protect you. The company can and WILL fire you without hesitation.
Don't excpect to get based in the US (get gateway travel) anytime soon. There are SOME 2001 hire pilots displaced in STN. ALL 2004 and 2005 hire pilots on the -400 are STUCK in STN. About half the 2005 -200 pilots have gotten back to the US. The rest have quit.
THAT is why within the first year over 50% of the pilots hired quit. By the second year I would say 75% are gone. After that most pilots seem to hang around. That is until UPS or FEDEX calls. Some Captains go to KAL or ANA under contract. Most Captains are staying put as they would take too much of a paycut to start over.
WHEN the contract bewteen Polar and Atlas is finally merged, the Polar pilots that choose to return will obviously return senior to the new hires. Again, more stagnation. Right now Polar pilots can ONLY return if the company adds more Polar flying (and to the Polar operation which is SEPERATE). When the combined CBA is agreed upon the company will fly both fleets as one and the pilots will be combined as per an already complete arbitration. That is why UNTIL then the company is forced to hire off the street.
I don't even want to talk about the training process.
Hope this clarifies a few things.
ALPA pilots - work 17 days and up to 4 days extra if required by the company.
Since Atlas is so short-staffed, most pilots are being involutary extended those 4 days. Add on an extra day or 2 to commute to/from Europe if you live in the states and you have NO LIFE. If you are a STN F/O, you WILL be gone from the US about 22 days EACH and every month. They way you could possibly be scheduled it is possible to be out on the line over 42 days! 17 days+4 extra+17 days + 4 extra as you carry a line from one month into the next.
Since all new hires are STN based with NO travel benefits you will have to rely on the generousity of other carrriers to get you to and from Europe using the jumpseat. By the way, that generousity is wearing thin with a few carriers already. In the summer months the commute is EXTREMELY stressful since flights are full and you would face disciplinary action for not making it to work on time (usually FRA, AMS, GOT, or London).
If for some reason you can't make it to work, the company's answer is:
1) You knew about the commute when you agreed to work here.
2) Well, I guess you have to buy a ticket. $$$$$$
3) You should have left a day earlier so standy for disciplinary action.
As a new hire, you are a probationary ALPA member. You don't pay dues but the union can't protect you. The company can and WILL fire you without hesitation.
Don't excpect to get based in the US (get gateway travel) anytime soon. There are SOME 2001 hire pilots displaced in STN. ALL 2004 and 2005 hire pilots on the -400 are STUCK in STN. About half the 2005 -200 pilots have gotten back to the US. The rest have quit.
THAT is why within the first year over 50% of the pilots hired quit. By the second year I would say 75% are gone. After that most pilots seem to hang around. That is until UPS or FEDEX calls. Some Captains go to KAL or ANA under contract. Most Captains are staying put as they would take too much of a paycut to start over.
WHEN the contract bewteen Polar and Atlas is finally merged, the Polar pilots that choose to return will obviously return senior to the new hires. Again, more stagnation. Right now Polar pilots can ONLY return if the company adds more Polar flying (and to the Polar operation which is SEPERATE). When the combined CBA is agreed upon the company will fly both fleets as one and the pilots will be combined as per an already complete arbitration. That is why UNTIL then the company is forced to hire off the street.
I don't even want to talk about the training process.
Hope this clarifies a few things.
Last edited by anothercargopilot; 24th Apr 2007 at 20:40.
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Giant On A Roll
WhaleDriver is right, Q1 profits will be through the roof, and I expect another profitable year for Atlas! The stock opened today at just under $60 a share, investors like where the company is going!!!
Even with the Polaroids sitting at home, we're still making money
http://www.smartmoney.com/cover/inde...ay2007&pgnum=2
Even with the Polaroids sitting at home, we're still making money
http://www.smartmoney.com/cover/inde...ay2007&pgnum=2
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Even with the Polaroids sitting at home, we're still making money
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You have to remember, Polar is making a lot of money also, mainly through the China routes that they own.
There is some movment on the classic side with Polar. One plane has come back and will be flying the Bejing, Shanghai, Seoul route. I talked to one of the Captains in the sim now and he doesn't know where things are going over but there are guesses that 3 or 4 classics mauy come back. I hope they don't bring anymore back, then I may have to resign and lose this gravy train. But with managments hands tied on paying us, they may have no choice.
There is some movment on the classic side with Polar. One plane has come back and will be flying the Bejing, Shanghai, Seoul route. I talked to one of the Captains in the sim now and he doesn't know where things are going over but there are guesses that 3 or 4 classics mauy come back. I hope they don't bring anymore back, then I may have to resign and lose this gravy train. But with managments hands tied on paying us, they may have no choice.
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I hope their making ALOT out of PVG. Loads out of PEK are less that a DC-8 could carry, and empty going in. The loads for the last month have been around 15K Kg (33K Lbs). Empty going into PVG as well. I think AAWW is counting on future growth, not present.
Effective 1 May '07, no more PO call signs on the Atlas schedule. Gravy train is at the end of the line?
Back to the thread....the Atlas MEC is in serious talks to address the STN issues. I would not sign up until there is agreement in writing. The latest is more hiring this summer.
Effective 1 May '07, no more PO call signs on the Atlas schedule. Gravy train is at the end of the line?
Back to the thread....the Atlas MEC is in serious talks to address the STN issues. I would not sign up until there is agreement in writing. The latest is more hiring this summer.
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My last trip at Atlas had me away from home for a whopping 38 days! Commuting (Hitchhiking the North Atlantic) was nothing short of hell over the busy summer months. Absolutely no support at all from the company. All this and then you fly with others who enjoyed Business Class travel to their aircraft. Yep..same airline, same union. You have the "have and have not club" If you are new..welcome to the have not portion. Even on a good month and you find yourself out 17 days. Plan on 2 getting to work and 2 going back. 2 days to recover after the trip home. 2 days of rest then the worry starts wondering how the hell your going to get to Gothenburg, Sweden to start your next trip! (Hint..there is no easy way) I know there is banter about the STN situation going away. Well it never did over the past 2 years I was there and Id bet it want go away anytime soon. Why would management have it any other way when they save 3 to 4K a pop on travel expenses everytime a new hire bums a free ride. Enough said
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Mike is absolutely correct. If you want or can live in central Europe or Great Britain then apply. The curent travel allowance scheme can cover most if not all of your costs and commuting is easy since most STN -400 and -200 trips start in FRA, AMS, PIK. GOT (Sweden) can be tricky to get to/from if patterned thru there. If you want to live in the US then commuting can be very difficult. If you live west of Chicago or the Mississippi river then forget it.
I see no incentive for the company to change the STN base and travel as they now have about 60 pilots jumpseating to Europe from the USA instead of having to pay for and schedule business class tickets to start or end a trip. The company saves a ton of money on this ALONE. As long as pilots keep showing up for work on time there is no reason for the company to change.....no matter how tough it is for these commuters.
I see no incentive for the company to change the STN base and travel as they now have about 60 pilots jumpseating to Europe from the USA instead of having to pay for and schedule business class tickets to start or end a trip. The company saves a ton of money on this ALONE. As long as pilots keep showing up for work on time there is no reason for the company to change.....no matter how tough it is for these commuters.
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Boy O Boy do these posts bring back the nightmare! Trying to get a jump seat on a busy Summer night to Europe. If you got bumped there were few places to run to since most North Atlantic flights launch at the same time. Very little wiggle room. Can not commute? Do not expect any support from the company. Scheduling will tell say you should have bought a ticket. (Check out the prices on the Internet, Goodbye one months pay) Expect to get docked pay or out and out get fired. And the old 17 days on, 7 off then another 17 days on schedule. Just when you are ready to scramble home for the 7, they take three of the days keeping you flying. Involuntary assigned. (Who needs a life) The commute home for the remaining 4 days has now become impossible. Now your stuck in Europe for those 4 days on your on dime. If you are lucky you might find a room for $120 per night. Remember the US Dollar is very weak at the moment. Oh yes, in reference to the above post. "The Have/Have Not Club" My fondest memory was landing in Frankfurt one night and it being to late to commute home. Three of us checked into the same hotel. The Captain's "Have Club Membership" got him a room for the night and a Business Class ticket home the next day. The other F/O's "Have Club Membership" afforded him a travel credit in which he had a room and a ticket home as well. And there stood lowly me, proud member of "The Have Not Club" My Visa card in hand to pay for my room. And hoping beyond hope that I could get a jump seat West to the US the next morning on an oversold flight. As stated above, 3 Pilots, same airline, same union on three different programs. If you are single, move to Europe and go for it. If you are married and its on shaky ground go ahead and get divorced if you choose this job. If you have growing kids at home, find another line of work, watch them grow up. They will be gone before you know it. As of last month there is no one remaining from my new hire class. Everyone reached their breaking point at different times. I wish I had better things to say but if you are at the bottom at this airline it is a horrible place to work. Good luck.
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Horrible Place to Work
I think the Company did not chain you to take the job N1N2, To my perspective you were out of work desperate, needed a pay check, cashed all the checks, used propably a good medical plan, and you were not a Happy Camper to Be in the cockpit with. We all make joices if the job works for you fine , otherwise we should move on. Look at all the so called legacy carriers lots of A,B,C and who knows what other pay scale.