So what's up at Polar? (Merged again & again)
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<< It looks like many of your fellow crewmembers are going to vote against the T/A, so you will all be unemployed on Wednesday after ratification fails.>> Really goodbyepolar? And n what makes you think that? Please explain 
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intruder, a lot of airlines in the US are closed shops, Polar is one of them , read our contract.
goddbyepolar, you are an idiot. fair representation does mean that the union has to represent all non union members, but in closed shops it gets a bit more tricky. when someone gets expelled from the union ( for whatever reasons) the union leadership will ask the airline for that person (S) resignation.
when it comes to the scabs .....well. .. sadly for you and the other scabs , there is plenty of evidence, and like I said before, there is a list. Alpa national is, this time for a change, 100% behind the punisment of the scabs . but you will have your day in court with the arbitrator and can explain yourself to him, not me.
the TA will pass.
you are such a moron goodbyepolar
goddbyepolar, you are an idiot. fair representation does mean that the union has to represent all non union members, but in closed shops it gets a bit more tricky. when someone gets expelled from the union ( for whatever reasons) the union leadership will ask the airline for that person (S) resignation.
when it comes to the scabs .....well. .. sadly for you and the other scabs , there is plenty of evidence, and like I said before, there is a list. Alpa national is, this time for a change, 100% behind the punisment of the scabs . but you will have your day in court with the arbitrator and can explain yourself to him, not me.
the TA will pass.
you are such a moron goodbyepolar
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GoodbyPolar, you're almost right.
A Closed Shop is 100% union.
An Agency Shop allows non union workers, who pay a service fee to the union.
And yes, in an agency shop, the union is still obligated to represent a non union member.
I'm pretty sure that Atlas is an Agency Shop, and will not force any resignations.
A Closed Shop is 100% union.
An Agency Shop allows non union workers, who pay a service fee to the union.
And yes, in an agency shop, the union is still obligated to represent a non union member.
I'm pretty sure that Atlas is an Agency Shop, and will not force any resignations.
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I just wanted to make your ( and the other scabs) blood pressure rise. i'm here having a beer and a good laugh at your expense
PS You really type fat man, maybe you could get a job as a secretary since they probably don't mnd scabs
PS You really type fat man, maybe you could get a job as a secretary since they probably don't mnd scabs
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intruder, a lot of airlines in the US are closed shops, Polar is one of them , read our contract.
Still nothing but unsupportable BS...
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<<Didn't you participate in the conference call? I guess the few guys who want the T/A to pass were afraid to speak up.>>
Well we must not have listened to the same ones honeybun. I listened to all three while laying by the pool and really didn't get the impression it would be voted down. Then again could be wishful thinking for you, must be awful to think that PO could get all airplanes back....... Did you start upgrading guys/girls already? I would've waited a bit. Check back with me tomorrow
In the mean time sweat dreams.
Well we must not have listened to the same ones honeybun. I listened to all three while laying by the pool and really didn't get the impression it would be voted down. Then again could be wishful thinking for you, must be awful to think that PO could get all airplanes back....... Did you start upgrading guys/girls already? I would've waited a bit. Check back with me tomorrow
In the mean time sweat dreams.
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Polar TA
GoodbyePolar,
Why in the world do you have so much hatred for an airline that saved your job and helped take an important requirement OUT of your "no strike clause" when your contract was in the playpen? By the way if that requirement remained in, you'd be the first unionized airline who'd have a "please let me scab" section in their contract.
Friend, I hear a cry for help hear!
Why in the world do you have so much hatred for an airline that saved your job and helped take an important requirement OUT of your "no strike clause" when your contract was in the playpen? By the way if that requirement remained in, you'd be the first unionized airline who'd have a "please let me scab" section in their contract.
Friend, I hear a cry for help hear!
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miafr8r, You say you saved the Atlas guys job? From the story I hear, you stuck it to them 3 times. First, you all took the 3 ½ % raise and a 6 month extension on your contract instead of getting behind the Atlas pilots and trying for a better contract for BOTH carriers. Then in the final hours before the Atlas pilots were to go on strike, your MEC calls the Atlas MEC to re-negotiate the struck work rules and how many Atlas tails Polar pilots would fly. Then you all file a grievance over South America routes that were Atlas routes to begin with. But you and your illiterate buddy grazydedog think that the Atlas pilots should have stood behind you all 100%. Hey 
heads, what comes around goes around.
heads, what comes around goes around.
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Fr8Dog, you are sorely misinformed.
When ACMI business was in the tank several years ago, Atlas jobs were saved when AAWW shifted a percentage Polar scheduled service, Military and Charter flying to Atlas through an alliance agreement. That actually increased hiring at Atlas and stunted the growth of Polar. That my friend is a fact. As ACMI business started to pick up, they also kept the flying taken away from Polar. Polar has only hired for attrition. For several years before the strike Atlas has been flying Polar callsigns. At any given time Atlas operates 3 to 4 aircraft for Polar.
Regarding S. America, within several months after our purchase by AAWW, MANAGEMENT transfered Polar's slots to the Atlas certificate, WITHOUT DOING THEIR HOMEWORK . The D.O.T. promptly pulled those improperly transfered slots and put them back into the hopper for open bid.
Atlas struck work rules? You should have seen them BEFORE we got involved. AAWW wanted those boys and girls to sign a "no strike LOA", to be attached to their contract, that would prevent them from honoring ANY picket line whatsoever. In private chats with our MEC, the Atlas MEC stated "yea, we'll sign it but when we're faced with crossing a Polar picket line, we'll just say "we fear for our safety"". The Polar MEC wasnt comfortable with that (This strike case and point), so he drafted a letter to the Atlas MEC stating "Polar Pilots will not harm or endanger the safety of Atlas pilots who cross a Polar picket line". AAWW realized that can of worms wasnt worth opening so thay modified their "no strike clause".
All Atlas piolts had to do was to "honor a legal picket line". Had AAWW contracted FedEx to fly a trip leaving out of the Polar ramp, would THEY have crossed the picket line, sat in a blacked out vans, sneaked around, laid down in the back seats, or flipped the picketers the middle fingure?
The Atlas MEC withdrew promised support (both before and after the TRO and follow up hearing), failed to give direction to his folks at critical times and a percentage of the rank and file of Atlas pilots just blatantly SCABBED.
Golly, I hoped I answered your questions?!
Maybe the next time you want to get vulgal (I know, it's because youre ignorant), please get your facts straight first.
Do you really fly for a living? You come accross rather young and uneducated.
When ACMI business was in the tank several years ago, Atlas jobs were saved when AAWW shifted a percentage Polar scheduled service, Military and Charter flying to Atlas through an alliance agreement. That actually increased hiring at Atlas and stunted the growth of Polar. That my friend is a fact. As ACMI business started to pick up, they also kept the flying taken away from Polar. Polar has only hired for attrition. For several years before the strike Atlas has been flying Polar callsigns. At any given time Atlas operates 3 to 4 aircraft for Polar.
Regarding S. America, within several months after our purchase by AAWW, MANAGEMENT transfered Polar's slots to the Atlas certificate, WITHOUT DOING THEIR HOMEWORK . The D.O.T. promptly pulled those improperly transfered slots and put them back into the hopper for open bid.
Atlas struck work rules? You should have seen them BEFORE we got involved. AAWW wanted those boys and girls to sign a "no strike LOA", to be attached to their contract, that would prevent them from honoring ANY picket line whatsoever. In private chats with our MEC, the Atlas MEC stated "yea, we'll sign it but when we're faced with crossing a Polar picket line, we'll just say "we fear for our safety"". The Polar MEC wasnt comfortable with that (This strike case and point), so he drafted a letter to the Atlas MEC stating "Polar Pilots will not harm or endanger the safety of Atlas pilots who cross a Polar picket line". AAWW realized that can of worms wasnt worth opening so thay modified their "no strike clause".
All Atlas piolts had to do was to "honor a legal picket line". Had AAWW contracted FedEx to fly a trip leaving out of the Polar ramp, would THEY have crossed the picket line, sat in a blacked out vans, sneaked around, laid down in the back seats, or flipped the picketers the middle fingure?
The Atlas MEC withdrew promised support (both before and after the TRO and follow up hearing), failed to give direction to his folks at critical times and a percentage of the rank and file of Atlas pilots just blatantly SCABBED.
Golly, I hoped I answered your questions?!
Maybe the next time you want to get vulgal (I know, it's because youre ignorant), please get your facts straight first.
Do you really fly for a living? You come accross rather young and uneducated.
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To the Sydney Polar picketers
To the Sydney Polar picketers
I am sorry to have to write to you in this anonymous way as I do not know your contact details perhaps your colleges will be kind enough to forward this to you
In your dispute with Polar Air Cargo I have seen your picketing action at YSSY and I understand its intended use in this dispute. Without getting into the legalities of the picket and from a Labor perspective I am disappointed that certain people who contract to Polar and Atlas at the airport in the ground handling area seem to have gone out of their way to actively seek to bypass your picket line even though they have nothing to gain by doing so.
Under the poor Labor environment current in Australia at this time there is little that can be done to these people other than to make a mental note of their selfishness, those who know of their actions have certainly lost any trust in them and will not forget
Make your own enquires but trust no one as your comments will certainly only be enhanced in their eagerness to report to your management
I wish you well in your negotiations and only hope it severs to set an example to the lost airline Labor movement in Australia
I am sorry to have to write to you in this anonymous way as I do not know your contact details perhaps your colleges will be kind enough to forward this to you
In your dispute with Polar Air Cargo I have seen your picketing action at YSSY and I understand its intended use in this dispute. Without getting into the legalities of the picket and from a Labor perspective I am disappointed that certain people who contract to Polar and Atlas at the airport in the ground handling area seem to have gone out of their way to actively seek to bypass your picket line even though they have nothing to gain by doing so.
Under the poor Labor environment current in Australia at this time there is little that can be done to these people other than to make a mental note of their selfishness, those who know of their actions have certainly lost any trust in them and will not forget
Make your own enquires but trust no one as your comments will certainly only be enhanced in their eagerness to report to your management
I wish you well in your negotiations and only hope it severs to set an example to the lost airline Labor movement in Australia
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grazydedog, I've got to as you, in all seriousness, have you even read the TA?
I ask because of all your talk of retaliation against pilots you beleive to have crossed picket lines.
The Return to Work Agreement has a No Retaliation section that prohibits retaliation by Polar against any pilot who struck, and fruther prohibits any retaliation by the PAC MEC against any Atlas pilot for any work that may have occured during the strike.
Specifically, Section G, 2:
The Polar MEC pledges that it will not instigate any discipline, harassment, retaliation, recrimination or reprisals against any Atlas Air Crewmember as a result of any work the Atlas Air Crewmember may have performed for Atlas Air, Inc. during the strike.
Now, if you really want to retaliate against the Atlas pilots, you'll have to vote against accecpting the TA. However, if you vote for it, you're prohibited from taking any action. Quite the quandry, huh?
I ask because of all your talk of retaliation against pilots you beleive to have crossed picket lines.
The Return to Work Agreement has a No Retaliation section that prohibits retaliation by Polar against any pilot who struck, and fruther prohibits any retaliation by the PAC MEC against any Atlas pilot for any work that may have occured during the strike.
Specifically, Section G, 2:
The Polar MEC pledges that it will not instigate any discipline, harassment, retaliation, recrimination or reprisals against any Atlas Air Crewmember as a result of any work the Atlas Air Crewmember may have performed for Atlas Air, Inc. during the strike.
Now, if you really want to retaliate against the Atlas pilots, you'll have to vote against accecpting the TA. However, if you vote for it, you're prohibited from taking any action. Quite the quandry, huh?
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yes metal, the polar mec cannot initiate any actions, but the individual crewmember can.
normally, the mec will take the steps, but in this case, the scab list ( once every case has been verified ) will be made public andany polar crewmwmber can file a grievance against those strike breakers and alpa will held an arbitration hearing. it was explained on each one of the conferences by alpa legal.
normally, the mec will take the steps, but in this case, the scab list ( once every case has been verified ) will be made public andany polar crewmwmber can file a grievance against those strike breakers and alpa will held an arbitration hearing. it was explained on each one of the conferences by alpa legal.
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MIAfr8tr,
Again, you only respond to questions you chose to with MISINFORMATION. Kinda like Polar strikers passing out BS during the strike. Crap like in LAX, and the TRO being overturned. A fact. The S. American routes were being flown by Atlas with GTI call signs, with GTI rights, long before Polar was bought for less than the cost of a good -200 freighter. A fact.
Second, no response to the six month extension/pay raise that put Polar clear of Atlas's negotiations....
Third, the actions of BF in the last hours of Atlas's negotiations. The AAWH negotiator drops the news that the Polar MEC has agreed to fly Atlas planes in spite of the agreed upon struck work rules. The Polar MEC Chair can't be found for almost an hour because he's at a picnic in ANC. This while his sister company was within two hours of release. Where was the entire Atlas MEC at the same time for Polar? In Herndon, helping finalize a strike center. Polar's current MEC is so upset with BF's actions, they put him in charge of the merger committee, and goon patrol in ANC.
Fourth, while everyone else in the free world was hauling Polars freight, the only people Polar takes pictures of and harass's are the only people that can really help them. For the most part, they DID help you. Yes, there was confusion and some mistakes. Now you threaten them with more grief.
As for the Polar CM's, 95% are good people, and great pilots and FE's. Just like at Atlas. If merged, we will get thru this and fly the planes safely, and in the long run, learn from each other. The bad news is, the history needs to be dealt with. Polar has the recent history, Atlas has the past and recent history to whine about.
I'll trade you my past and recent grief with Polar with your recent grief with Atlas? We both agree that neither airline would be worth as much without the other. Deal.....?
As for GD, he knows less about the Atlas contract than his own. I make over $800 a day, over guarantee, on my first two off days worked, more beyond that, up to four max, plus what's flown. Max....21, not 23. Agreed, not very good. There's more that GD missed, but, Nuff said.....
Again, you only respond to questions you chose to with MISINFORMATION. Kinda like Polar strikers passing out BS during the strike. Crap like in LAX, and the TRO being overturned. A fact. The S. American routes were being flown by Atlas with GTI call signs, with GTI rights, long before Polar was bought for less than the cost of a good -200 freighter. A fact.
Second, no response to the six month extension/pay raise that put Polar clear of Atlas's negotiations....
Third, the actions of BF in the last hours of Atlas's negotiations. The AAWH negotiator drops the news that the Polar MEC has agreed to fly Atlas planes in spite of the agreed upon struck work rules. The Polar MEC Chair can't be found for almost an hour because he's at a picnic in ANC. This while his sister company was within two hours of release. Where was the entire Atlas MEC at the same time for Polar? In Herndon, helping finalize a strike center. Polar's current MEC is so upset with BF's actions, they put him in charge of the merger committee, and goon patrol in ANC.
Fourth, while everyone else in the free world was hauling Polars freight, the only people Polar takes pictures of and harass's are the only people that can really help them. For the most part, they DID help you. Yes, there was confusion and some mistakes. Now you threaten them with more grief.
As for the Polar CM's, 95% are good people, and great pilots and FE's. Just like at Atlas. If merged, we will get thru this and fly the planes safely, and in the long run, learn from each other. The bad news is, the history needs to be dealt with. Polar has the recent history, Atlas has the past and recent history to whine about.
I'll trade you my past and recent grief with Polar with your recent grief with Atlas? We both agree that neither airline would be worth as much without the other. Deal.....?
As for GD, he knows less about the Atlas contract than his own. I make over $800 a day, over guarantee, on my first two off days worked, more beyond that, up to four max, plus what's flown. Max....21, not 23. Agreed, not very good. There's more that GD missed, but, Nuff said.....
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whaledriver, as I said before, I beieve most of the atlas cews follow the poor diretions of their mec. they have nothing to worry about. their mec puts a vars on how to conduct yourself, you follow it, you are clear ( legally but not morally). however , some ( very few I believed) did cross picket lines when instructed not to do so by the mec. that is a fact, they scab and should be treated as such.
i believe there will be a merge and we should all put everything behind us and work together agains this antilabor management team. we have learn from our-your mistakesand they won'thappen again.
i will be perfectly content if after this is over with, no ones talks about it again except to point out what not to do on our next battle.
I believe both out CBA 's are subpar but we will get our chance to improve in 3 years or less.
as to who save who and who is prettier......it is over, it is done it has been overdebated.
i'm moving on to prepere for the next battle, hopefully with a 100% united pilot group almost 1,000 strong.
good day.
i believe there will be a merge and we should all put everything behind us and work together agains this antilabor management team. we have learn from our-your mistakesand they won'thappen again.
i will be perfectly content if after this is over with, no ones talks about it again except to point out what not to do on our next battle.
I believe both out CBA 's are subpar but we will get our chance to improve in 3 years or less.
as to who save who and who is prettier......it is over, it is done it has been overdebated.
i'm moving on to prepere for the next battle, hopefully with a 100% united pilot group almost 1,000 strong.
good day.
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miafr8r, The one who is misinformed is you my friend. But I have the feeling after reading your previous posts that no matter what I say you will contradict it. Hell if I tell you the sky is blue you will probably say it’s green.
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Sorry if I clouded the issues with facts.
Regarding the six month extension. Do you REALLY think that six extention had any affect on Atlas? Look at when we reached our 30 cooling off. Okay, back that off six months and where does that leave us? Your CBA would have still been in place for a couple of years? Do suggest we pulled an illegal job action? Atlas folks wouldnt even enforce a legal job action!
About our MEC at a piniic during your final hours? I dont know, I wasnt there, but to think Polar pilots would cross a picket line? Well, you drank too much Cato koolaid to believe that one.
By the way, how can you deem an ACMI contract as "struck"?
Dont get mad, I'm just asking...
If you had a picket line in front of ops, it would be honored regardless of what was in the airplane. A point many Atlas crews failed miserably at seeing.
And at times the sky is blue!
Regarding the six month extension. Do you REALLY think that six extention had any affect on Atlas? Look at when we reached our 30 cooling off. Okay, back that off six months and where does that leave us? Your CBA would have still been in place for a couple of years? Do suggest we pulled an illegal job action? Atlas folks wouldnt even enforce a legal job action!
About our MEC at a piniic during your final hours? I dont know, I wasnt there, but to think Polar pilots would cross a picket line? Well, you drank too much Cato koolaid to believe that one.
By the way, how can you deem an ACMI contract as "struck"?
Dont get mad, I'm just asking...
If you had a picket line in front of ops, it would be honored regardless of what was in the airplane. A point many Atlas crews failed miserably at seeing.
And at times the sky is blue!
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you've got to be kidding!two weeks, (big deal, try six months
on the picket line and unemployment benefits) and then you're willing to vote for a
poorer offer than the original.
way to go polar mec!
you really showed cato!