So what's up at Polar? (Merged again & again)
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: New England
Age: 79
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
for some of us who believed alpa in 1989 and then found out that our brothers at other airlines not only would not support us but were trying to take away our strike benefits, routes and aircraft, this is deja vu all over again yogi. some of us lost our airline, families, even lives towing the union line.
think about it ALL aawh crews. Never again!
think about it ALL aawh crews. Never again!
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another new handle .......... geeeeeeez, now that adds to your credibilty.
<<Polar Air Cargo has never made a profit, in it's history. Yes they have a few profitable routes, but the cost of operating it's fleet on it's other routes eats all that profit up, so what's the point of a boasting>>
You must have meant, what's the point of continuing to subsidize a losing operation? or what's the point of even offering a 10.5% raise? and i could go on and on..... just shut the mofu down!
<<How could the Polar pilots expect to make the same money as Atlas Crewmembers who as mentioned above have consistently earned their company high profits>>
Yeah right, so why was the Atlas contract even offered to the PO pilots? And you call yourselves a "management" team? I agree though, screw the 31%, PO should ask for more
<<Polar pilots are now saying to everyone that they voted to strike based on MISINFORMATION from their union, wow that's a first.>>
That is a first indeed, and how many pilots are we talking about? Like in any group of "humans" there is always a minority that doubts, so don't get your hopes to high, it's only a minority.
I shall repeat myself since you haven't understood yet. You only have 2 choices, shut it down or settle fair. I'd be you I'd chose option 1
(do you even get that?)
<<Polar Air Cargo has never made a profit, in it's history. Yes they have a few profitable routes, but the cost of operating it's fleet on it's other routes eats all that profit up, so what's the point of a boasting>>
You must have meant, what's the point of continuing to subsidize a losing operation? or what's the point of even offering a 10.5% raise? and i could go on and on..... just shut the mofu down!
<<How could the Polar pilots expect to make the same money as Atlas Crewmembers who as mentioned above have consistently earned their company high profits>>
Yeah right, so why was the Atlas contract even offered to the PO pilots? And you call yourselves a "management" team? I agree though, screw the 31%, PO should ask for more
<<Polar pilots are now saying to everyone that they voted to strike based on MISINFORMATION from their union, wow that's a first.>>
That is a first indeed, and how many pilots are we talking about? Like in any group of "humans" there is always a minority that doubts, so don't get your hopes to high, it's only a minority.
I shall repeat myself since you haven't understood yet. You only have 2 choices, shut it down or settle fair. I'd be you I'd chose option 1
(do you even get that?)
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Missing the boat...
Yes, the ALPA MEC at Polar certainly is.
One simple fact remains.
If AAWH decided to sell Polar lock stock and barrel, I wonder what would the MEC do to avoid the sort of sweetheart deal Kalitta had with Kittyhawk...sell the company to 'em, fold it into chapter 11, abrogate the pilots contract (with court approval) and start afresh.
Oh, I can hear it now..."they cannot do that.
Wanna bet?
Then, who would want Polar?
You might be surprised at the answer.
One simple fact remains.
If AAWH decided to sell Polar lock stock and barrel, I wonder what would the MEC do to avoid the sort of sweetheart deal Kalitta had with Kittyhawk...sell the company to 'em, fold it into chapter 11, abrogate the pilots contract (with court approval) and start afresh.
Oh, I can hear it now..."they cannot do that.
Wanna bet?
Then, who would want Polar?
You might be surprised at the answer.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UNDER A BRIDGE
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
is a temporary restraining order until they go to court over that. the court date is set for tuesday 14:00. obviously , no judge would allowed a company to be shutdown for 4 days or more when there is a ruling to be have on the matter at a later date by a labor judge ( because no matter who wins, there migth be no company to return to).
so the short answer is, be go to court as planned ( it came at no surprise to anyone that they asked for an emergency injuntion and an expeditious court date ad that the judge granted both)
so the short answer is, be go to court as planned ( it came at no surprise to anyone that they asked for an emergency injuntion and an expeditious court date ad that the judge granted both)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UNDER A BRIDGE
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tro
the judge ruled in favor of the atlas mec/polar mec /alpa national an every pilot union in the USA. Of course he upheld the restraining order that prevented Atlas Pilots form doing a simpaty strike, a sick out and /or a slowdown, but he made clear that Atlas crews have every rigth to refuse to cross any picket line manned by any legal union under the RLA. HE DID NOT SPECIFIED AIRPORTS, WICH MEANT ANY AIRPORT ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHERE THERE IS AN ALPA OR ANY OTHER LEGAL RLA UNION PICKETLINE CAN BE REFUSE TO BE CROSSED BY ANY AND ALL ATLAS CREWS WTIHOUT FEAR OF DISCIPLINE FROM THE COMPANY. tha's a victory for pilots evrywhere in the US.
to all those Atlas crew that have refuse to cros ( 100% of them as of ast count) , thank you , and please continue to do that, you now have every legal rigth as stated by our courts.
again thank you for standing up to mutt and jeff. we will achive a fair an equitable contract and 2 years from now so will you.
to all those Atlas crew that have refuse to cros ( 100% of them as of ast count) , thank you , and please continue to do that, you now have every legal rigth as stated by our courts.
again thank you for standing up to mutt and jeff. we will achive a fair an equitable contract and 2 years from now so will you.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UNDER A BRIDGE
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hey po boy, the tro final decition came today. victory for pilot union all across the USA. good news indeed.atlas crews have the legal rigth o refuse to cross any picket line at any airport by any union group under the RLA
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Grazydedog, I suggest that you read the order that was posted today by the Atlas MEC. Not exactly the way you interpreted it I think. Your continued misinformation is amazing, not to be outdone by you’re myriad of typos and misspellings. If I were you I might think about a little night schooling to learn how to write.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bobb and Robin have no more credibility. It is a shame ALPA keeps us all so under-wraps while a strike is going on. I call for Bobb and Robin to resign, not only their MEC slot, but their jobs at PAC altogether. I don't think I can sit in the cockpit with either of them any more.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: LAX
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yo, fr8puppy, a.k.a. grammar and spelling maven of 'Freight Dogs'...
I noticed that while you were panicking about grazedog's grammar...
"you’re myriad of typos"
hahahaha
See you at the Bradley Terminal entrance in LAX- at least, that was the back door you lot were using last night...
TT
I noticed that while you were panicking about grazedog's grammar...
"you’re myriad of typos"
hahahaha
See you at the Bradley Terminal entrance in LAX- at least, that was the back door you lot were using last night...
TT
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: May 2000
Location: New York
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry GD,
No Polar Freight plus no Polar Planes equals no SCABS.
Simple math.
Northwest and FedEx aren't SCABS for flying their freight in their planes and neither are the Atlas pilots for doing the same thing. I bet those NW flights are full of ex-Polar cargo out of Narita. No one picketing them? Just because the only times you picket are when there are Atlas flights, does not make them Scabs, NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY.
No Polar Freight plus no Polar Planes equals no SCABS.
Simple math.
Northwest and FedEx aren't SCABS for flying their freight in their planes and neither are the Atlas pilots for doing the same thing. I bet those NW flights are full of ex-Polar cargo out of Narita. No one picketing them? Just because the only times you picket are when there are Atlas flights, does not make them Scabs, NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY.
Last edited by WhaleDriver; 29th Sep 2005 at 08:14.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UNDER A BRIDGE
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
when you do a charter on a strike polar route you are scabbing, furthermore , there is polar freight being flown by you guys. lastly, you better hopoe polar gets shut down for good and or the oct 5 court (and the subsequent appleals that will come from that) go in favor of Labor ( the atlas MEC in this case). otherwise you guys will get screw even more on the next contract..... worse than the first time.
you guys don't have to cross . you are helping the company. when you see a polar picket line go back home or the hotel, notify the company and then, when you get your new " entrance assingment" , call the strike center and asked them not no be picketing at that entrance. is that simple if you want it to be. no more excuses. a lot of your guys are doing that. follow their example and spread the word.
again, you think you are safe now? what will happen when you guys start with your new contract? set a good precedent. you are allowed to do that by your contract. help the union and help yourself.
is not polar against atlas and aawwh management, is labor against aawwh management. listen to the atlls vars form the 23. it's aplight for solidarity from your MEC .he has been ordered to shut up by the courts. but you can still use your imagination and creativity not to cross, instead of using it to cross.
have a good day, hope for your solidarity.
you guys don't have to cross . you are helping the company. when you see a polar picket line go back home or the hotel, notify the company and then, when you get your new " entrance assingment" , call the strike center and asked them not no be picketing at that entrance. is that simple if you want it to be. no more excuses. a lot of your guys are doing that. follow their example and spread the word.
again, you think you are safe now? what will happen when you guys start with your new contract? set a good precedent. you are allowed to do that by your contract. help the union and help yourself.
is not polar against atlas and aawwh management, is labor against aawwh management. listen to the atlls vars form the 23. it's aplight for solidarity from your MEC .he has been ordered to shut up by the courts. but you can still use your imagination and creativity not to cross, instead of using it to cross.
have a good day, hope for your solidarity.
Top Dog
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Close to FACT
Age: 55
Posts: 2,098
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a hypothetical Q from me.
Assume my company would fly PO cargo on PO routes as a charter. Or PO pallets on one of our scheduled flights going to a PO destination Would that make us scabs too?
Assume my company would fly PO cargo on PO routes as a charter. Or PO pallets on one of our scheduled flights going to a PO destination Would that make us scabs too?
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UNDER A BRIDGE
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
that's up to the union to decide but , just ask the ups pilot when they went on strike what they thought about the arrow crew that was trying to go there and fly their stuff, or the CAT guys.
as of right now if you flew PO freigth on a po route you would be a scab ( provided we found out)
know, what do you thnk? how would you feel about doing that? would you doit if your contract allows you not to do it?
as of right now if you flew PO freigth on a po route you would be a scab ( provided we found out)
know, what do you thnk? how would you feel about doing that? would you doit if your contract allows you not to do it?
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: US
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry GD,
No matter what Bobb tells you your definition of a scab is wrong and there are MANY airlines that could carry your freight - and some possibly are. The Altas pilots initially agreed to some struck work rules and to "honor" your picket line. Now the TRO says they have to carry Polar frieght if indeed there is any to carry. They don't however, have to go through a legal picket line.
Your continued focus on only the Atlas pilots is further ailienating the ONLY pilots on the planet who have a reason to help you. You only picket when an Atlas flight is coming in or going out. Don't you think AAWH is smart enough to put any Polar cargo on another freighter such as Kallitta, Tradewinds, Southern Air, or even bury it in a FedEx ULD. The Polar pilots are so lazy that they won't even picket the ANC airport properly. I remember when Wien picketed in the 70's. They had picketers on the line 24/7 for 22 months - now that was a picket line!. But did they call the other airlines scabs for carrying their passengers - NOPE.
You guys have drunk too much of the Henderson cool-aid. Two guys, one on each side of a 4 lane road IS NOT a picket line. Following the crew van from the airport and attempting to get in front of it just before the airport turn off IS NOT a picket line! Picketing the crew hotel IS NOT a picket line! Calling the Atlas crews rooms during their rest IS NOT a picket line! Your strikers in ANC have done all of this and more. It is no wonder that the Atlas pilots support for you is rapidly eroding. At this point they (and ALPA) are ready to get rid of you.
Lets review: You are too lazy to put up a proper picket line; you are focusing your ire on only one group of pilots; you have no idea of the true nature of a scab; you don't know the difference between "honoring" a picket line and "crossing" a picket line; and your behavior on the picket line (drinking and partying) has been far below professional. If you want support you better quickly get a clue.
BD
No matter what Bobb tells you your definition of a scab is wrong and there are MANY airlines that could carry your freight - and some possibly are. The Altas pilots initially agreed to some struck work rules and to "honor" your picket line. Now the TRO says they have to carry Polar frieght if indeed there is any to carry. They don't however, have to go through a legal picket line.
Your continued focus on only the Atlas pilots is further ailienating the ONLY pilots on the planet who have a reason to help you. You only picket when an Atlas flight is coming in or going out. Don't you think AAWH is smart enough to put any Polar cargo on another freighter such as Kallitta, Tradewinds, Southern Air, or even bury it in a FedEx ULD. The Polar pilots are so lazy that they won't even picket the ANC airport properly. I remember when Wien picketed in the 70's. They had picketers on the line 24/7 for 22 months - now that was a picket line!. But did they call the other airlines scabs for carrying their passengers - NOPE.
You guys have drunk too much of the Henderson cool-aid. Two guys, one on each side of a 4 lane road IS NOT a picket line. Following the crew van from the airport and attempting to get in front of it just before the airport turn off IS NOT a picket line! Picketing the crew hotel IS NOT a picket line! Calling the Atlas crews rooms during their rest IS NOT a picket line! Your strikers in ANC have done all of this and more. It is no wonder that the Atlas pilots support for you is rapidly eroding. At this point they (and ALPA) are ready to get rid of you.
Lets review: You are too lazy to put up a proper picket line; you are focusing your ire on only one group of pilots; you have no idea of the true nature of a scab; you don't know the difference between "honoring" a picket line and "crossing" a picket line; and your behavior on the picket line (drinking and partying) has been far below professional. If you want support you better quickly get a clue.
BD
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UNDER A BRIDGE
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'M not in ANC, so I don't know what goes on there, but I'm sure is not as unprofesional as you make it sound, specially since there have been a few ANC guys that have chosen to go home and not cross a picket line. I was not around when the WEIN guys struck. ALPA is not wanting to get rid of us ( I don't know how you came up with that one , since they had a meeting yesterday at 3:00pm ). and finally, bob does not decice what makes somone a scab, national does, after an investigation.
one single person with a permit to picket constitutes a picket line ( in the airline industry and in any other).no matter where they are ( as long as they have the legal permit to picket)
the ups guys also made calls to the arrow guys rooms flying their stuff ,and call then scabs. was that unprofessional??
the atlas pilot group has as much to loose or more than the polar ( are you one of the few atlas guys who think your contract is good and cato and erickson are your buddies?, what do you think will happened if they don't shut us down? there will be no merger and they willuse us to screw you guys )
ask any other pilot group what they thnk about atlas pilots behavior, go ahead ask.
I already have.
PS: I 'm not calling you a scab, I now you have been place on a very ****ty situaion by our worderfully tilted towards management court sistem, but just like the company uses legalesse and loose interpretation to try force you to do something you are not happy about, you can use that same way of interpretting things on you behalf to refuse to fly and help yourself as well as us.
have a good day
one single person with a permit to picket constitutes a picket line ( in the airline industry and in any other).no matter where they are ( as long as they have the legal permit to picket)
the ups guys also made calls to the arrow guys rooms flying their stuff ,and call then scabs. was that unprofessional??
the atlas pilot group has as much to loose or more than the polar ( are you one of the few atlas guys who think your contract is good and cato and erickson are your buddies?, what do you think will happened if they don't shut us down? there will be no merger and they willuse us to screw you guys )
ask any other pilot group what they thnk about atlas pilots behavior, go ahead ask.
I already have.
PS: I 'm not calling you a scab, I now you have been place on a very ****ty situaion by our worderfully tilted towards management court sistem, but just like the company uses legalesse and loose interpretation to try force you to do something you are not happy about, you can use that same way of interpretting things on you behalf to refuse to fly and help yourself as well as us.
have a good day
Last edited by grazydedog; 29th Sep 2005 at 17:00.