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And so it begins...

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

And so it begins...

Old 2nd Jan 2022, 08:40
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: F370
Posts: 200
I’m not sure what your point is Arnie, but to give you some context:

In the last three weeks, I have been allowed to go outside on 1.5+0.5 days for fresh air and exercise. I have been subject to 8 PCR tests, and 18 RAT tests.

In Hong Kong there have been 2 cases of local infection total as the result of a cabin crew member not following the rules. Due to misleading information, the people of Hong Kong believe it is my fault.

In response, my company will require me to work three weeks and quarantine for a week, all confined to a hotel room. In return I get a week off, and a few extra dollars. If, during those three weeks I test positive in Hong Kong I will be hospitalized regardless of symptoms for 2 to 4+ weeks until I’m negative. If it’s overseas, I need to rely on my personal health insurance as the company denies responsibility. If someone I worked with during those three weeks tests positive, I will be incarcerated in a quarantine facility for 21 days. The company will offer vacation days or unpaid leave.

This is what Hong Kong has become.
AtoBsafely is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2022, 08:58
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 62
It is now or never to make a stand. Everyone needs to stop volunteering for closed loop and stop showing up for any layover where you will end up with 7 days of quarantine after. We have already sacrificed so much for the past year after a significant COS reduction. Both the company and the hk government needs a wake up call to this ridiculous situation!
cyrex is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2022, 09:53
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: On a few nerves apparently
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by Arnie Madsen View Post
.

Where I live (Manitoba Canada) we had 1494 new cases December 31st

1223 of those were people fully vaccinated

262 were not vaccinated

.
I see a strong indication of ignorance from this irrelevant statement.

Let's just assume those numbers are correct, which they probably are not.

A vaccinated person being positive means nothing. If you're vaccinated, testing is an absolute waste of time unless you have symptoms. And then it's only useful of you want to isolate from the unvaccinated to protect them. Which unless their lack of vaccination is due to some real medical reason, they're not entitled to any consideration or protection whatsoever. All the previous viruses human kind has had to deal with were no different than this one. Back then testing wasn't so easily available and unless you had symptoms you or others didn't know you even had the virus. So none of this testing hysteria was present back then.

The real number that means anything is the hospitalization numbers. Positive test numbers mean nothing. The entire number of people needing hospitalization right now due to covid complications are unvaccinated.

If you study how a vaccine works you'll see that it is not intended nor capable of preventing the virus from entering you body. It trains your immune system so when it encounters the virus, it is equipped to fight it effectively, minimizing the virus effectiveness and maximizing your body's chance of beating the vaccine quickly before it causes complications. So of course a vaccinated person can test Positive. The body can't fight the virus using the vaccine effect UNLESS the virus first enters the body.

The testing hysteria is the major problem causing disruption and gross waste of resources which should be used elsewhere. The US CDC is moving in this scientific direction finally eliminating the testing once you're not symptomatic.

In hk they've never had qualified and able scientific people in charge of anything and their response to this and previous similar situations of smaller scale has always been not based on science and logic. It's all based on ignorance and fear caused by their inability to think and act with reason and logic. The way they're acting is nothing new. Need I remind you all the toilet paper hoarding/shortage hysteria they started as a result of the initial outbreak of covid in hk? What toilet paper has to do with covid is something a person with a reasonable and logical thinking brain can't explain or understand. But somehow hk society linked the two together and went crazy hysterical over buying all the toilet paper they could for months, because... covid!

It's just that this time the consequences of their inability to reason and logic has been exponentially negative. And this time with availability of testing the hysteria has been grown to what it is today, In other parts of the world also but it's waning elsewhere gradually and in hk they're getting even more crazy about testing and still in outright denial of the knowledge and understanding developed by science and research since.2 years ago. They still think their ridiculous surgical masks are adequate to prevent infection. They go crazy enforcing mask wearing while outside but walk inside a bar or club, it's jam packed to capacity with people standing literally face to face talking without masks. And as soon as you walk outside... you must wear a mask! The giant loopholes in their system are really too many to list.

The silliness is beyond description, in hk and elsewhere where they still suffer from testing hysteria and denial of science, reason and logic.

Last edited by VforVENDETTA; 2nd Jan 2022 at 10:16.
VforVENDETTA is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2022, 10:25
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Oztrailia
Posts: 2,924
Originally Posted by VforVENDETTA View Post
I see a strong indication of ignorance from this irrelevant statement.

Let's just assume those numbers are correct, which they probably are not.

A vaccinated person being positive means nothing. If you're vaccinated, testing is an absolute waste of time unless you have symptoms. And then it's only useful of you want to isolate from the unvaccinated to protect them. Which unless their lack of vaccination is due to some real medical reason, they're not entitled to any consideration or protection whatsoever. All the previous viruses human kind has had to deal with were no different than this one. Back then testing wasn't so easily available and unless you had symptoms you or others didn't know you even had the virus. So none of this testing hysteria was present back then.

The real number that means anything is the hospitalization numbers. Positive test numbers mean nothing. The entire number of people needing hospitalization right now due to covid complications are unvaccinated.

If you study how a vaccine works you'll see that it is not intended nor capable of preventing the virus from entering you body. It trains your immune system so when it encounters the virus, it is equipped to fight it effectively, minimizing the virus effectiveness and maximizing your body's chance of beating the vaccine quickly before it causes complications. So of course a vaccinated person can test Positive. The body can't fight the virus using the vaccine effect UNLESS the virus first enters the body.

The testing hysteria is the major problem causing disruption and gross waste of resources which should be used elsewhere. The US CDC is moving in this scientific direction finally eliminating the testing once you're not symptomatic.

In hk they've never had qualified and able scientific people in charge of anything and their response to this and previous similar situations of smaller scale has always been not based on science and logic. It's all based on ignorance and fear caused by their inability to think and act with reason and logic. The way they're acting is nothing new. Need I remind you all the toilet paper hoarding/shortage hysteria they started as a result of the initial outbreak of covid in hk? What toilet paper has to do with covid is something a person with a reasonable and logical thinking brain can't explain or understand. But somehow hk society linked the two together and went crazy hysterical over buying all the toilet paper they could for months, because... covid!

It's just that this time the consequences of their inability to reason and logic has been exponentially negative. And this time with availability of testing the hysteria has been grown to what it is today, In other parts of the world also but it's waning elsewhere gradually and in hk they're getting even more crazy about testing and still in outright denial of the knowledge and understanding developed by science and research since.2 years ago. They still think their ridiculous surgical masks are adequate to prevent infection. They go crazy enforcing mask wearing while outside but walk inside a bar or club, it's jam packed to capacity with people standing literally face to face talking without masks. And as soon as you walk outside... you must wear a mask! The giant loopholes in their system are really too many to list.

The silliness is beyond description, in hk and elsewhere where they still suffer from testing hysteria and denial of science, reason and logic.

plus 1………….
ACMS is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2022, 10:32
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 359
Originally Posted by AtoBsafely View Post
I’m not sure what your point is Arnie, but to give you some context:

In the last three weeks, I have been allowed to go outside on 1.5+0.5 days for fresh air and exercise. I have been subject to 8 PCR tests, and 18 RAT tests.

In Hong Kong there have been 2 cases of local infection total as the result of a cabin crew member not following the rules. Due to misleading information, the people of Hong Kong believe it is my fault.

In response, my company will require me to work three weeks and quarantine for a week, all confined to a hotel room. In return I get a week off, and a few extra dollars. If, during those three weeks I test positive in Hong Kong I will be hospitalized regardless of symptoms for 2 to 4+ weeks until I’m negative. If it’s overseas, I need to rely on my personal health insurance as the company denies responsibility. If someone I worked with during those three weeks tests positive, I will be incarcerated in a quarantine facility for 21 days. The company will offer vacation days or unpaid leave.

This is what Hong Kong has become.
Excellent post.

For outsiders, think about this for a minute. CX has conformed to the HKG Government's restrictions. How do you think the above would be affecting the physical health, mental health, family health and cumulative fatigue of the pilots living and working this nightmare. They are the very same ones who are flying you from A to B.

Then question if the following is true... "At Cathay Pacific, your safety is our highest priority". What will Carrie be saying if safety margins are lost to the point of a hull loss.
Harbour Dweller is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2022, 11:04
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Age: 66
Posts: 698
Hong Kong has become a dystopian Potemkin Village. Freighter fleet grounded and pax fleet crippled. The fat lady is singing and all the little lady with the spectacles can do is front-run Beijng to garner favor.
VR-HFX is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2022, 11:15
  #47 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 269
RTHK
https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/compone...abChangeable=0

Another diner tests positive, and at the end:

‘Secretary for Food and Health Sophia Chan said on Sunday that some of the 200 or so diners at the Moon Palace restaurant on Monday afternoon have not been tracked down yet.’

Oasis is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2022, 14:17
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 731
It'll be over soon

Originally Posted by VR-HFX View Post
Hong Kong has become a dystopian Potemkin Village. Freighter fleet grounded and pax fleet crippled. The fat lady is singing and all the little lady with the spectacles can do is front-run Beijng to garner favor.
If you think any of this is unplanned, you're in the wrong part of the world.. Uncle Xi is winning the chess game and the ONLY move CX has remaining on the board is the acceptance of their humiliating loss and the acceptance of a lowball offer..
Corporate takeover -with Asian values ( i.e. none) Not just CX, all of Hong Kong now know without confusion EXACTLY who is in charge..

Last edited by Flex88; 2nd Jan 2022 at 20:07.
Flex88 is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2022, 19:29
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6
And so it begins....and this is how it will end.

Now: passenger flights grounded, freighters grounded, CX crew demonised, a disgrace of an airline.

Next: shortages in the shops, supply chains disrupted, chaos, all because of CX.

Next the mainland comes to the rescue, providing an emergency airbridge with the mainland, bringing in essential supplies on their own aircraft, crewed by young virile "we'll do it" ex-air force heroes: they don't complain about long hours, closed loops, 5* hotel quarantine.

CX remains grounded, remains in disgrace, no amount of Cow Tow-ing can redeem the reputation, after all it has too many foreign devils bringing bad fung shui.

Next, "we'll do it" more Mandarin speaking, ex-air force heroes bought in to start flying all the 747s, 777s, 787s, etc, stuck on the ground. All heroes, every one of them, opening up HK again.

Next, a man with a pot of paint starts painting over all traces of the CX name on the hulls. That's it: mission accomplished! And there's nothing you can do about it.
LapsedPPL is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2022, 20:01
  #50 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 269
You had me right up until the end; painting the aircraft with a pot of paint would destroy the laminair airflow.
Oasis is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2022, 20:08
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: AUS
Posts: 32
Yes, all those 787’s currently grounded at HKIA.

Can’t wait for the NEXT guy to go on yammer and tell his keyboard “this is the final straw” or “not sure how much more I can take”

Every further restriction is the final straw. Just go and see your AME and take some well deserved time off instead of seeking likes on Yammer. Actions speak louder than words.

btw your AME such as ML or RF WILL sign you off and protect you.
ToCatLady is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2022, 20:14
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 731
Laminar ??

Originally Posted by Oasis View Post
You had me right up until the end; painting the aircraft with a pot of paint would destroy the laminair airflow.
No more laminar flow destruction than all the 3 layer thick bent airframe wrinkle patches ( reinforcements ) on the fuselages of the Chinese air carrier fleets
Flex88 is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2022, 22:24
  #53 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 269
Originally Posted by Flex88 View Post
No more laminar flow destruction than all the 3 layer thick bent airframe wrinkle patches ( reinforcements ) on the fuselages of the Chinese air carrier fleets
In this case it may actually improve the airflow!
Oasis is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2022, 00:01
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: somewhere
Posts: 249
Are Cathay now contacting every B747 rated pilot they let go in the last 12 months with a short term ,very lucrative contract?
kenfoggo is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2022, 01:22
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Egoli
Posts: 351
Originally Posted by AtoBsafely View Post
I’m not sure what your point is Arnie, but to give you some context:

In the last three weeks, I have been allowed to go outside on 1.5+0.5 days for fresh air and exercise. I have been subject to 8 PCR tests, and 18 RAT tests.

In Hong Kong there have been 2 cases of local infection total as the result of a cabin crew member not following the rules. Due to misleading information, the people of Hong Kong believe it is my fault.

In response, my company will require me to work three weeks and quarantine for a week, all confined to a hotel room. In return I get a week off, and a few extra dollars. If, during those three weeks I test positive in Hong Kong I will be hospitalized regardless of symptoms for 2 to 4+ weeks until I’m negative. If it’s overseas, I need to rely on my personal health insurance as the company denies responsibility. If someone I worked with during those three weeks tests positive, I will be incarcerated in a quarantine facility for 21 days. The company will offer vacation days or unpaid leave.

This is what Hong Kong has become.
No offence , but its your choice to take those conditions !!!!
volare_737 is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2022, 01:24
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: hong kong
Posts: 185
Really, offer anyone ex cx rated on 747,

Come to HKG 3 weeks Quarantine 6 weeks in simulator 4 weeks line training. Dude, really.
The FUB is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2022, 01:24
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Egoli
Posts: 351
Originally Posted by Harbour Dweller View Post
Excellent post.

For outsiders, think about this for a minute. CX has conformed to the HKG Government's restrictions. How do you think the above would be affecting the physical health, mental health, family health and cumulative fatigue of the pilots living and working this nightmare. They are the very same ones who are flying you from A to B.

Then question if the following is true... "At Cathay Pacific, your safety is our highest priority". What will Carrie be saying if safety margins are lost to the point of a hull loss.
As I replied to another post. Its your choice to take those conditions !!! Us Pilots got no backbone to stand up and rebel !!! Its only us to blame !!!
volare_737 is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2022, 01:50
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: HK
Posts: 16
We're not rebelling, however, out of an abundance of caution, I feel that at the moment I cannot satisfy the conditions of MY license.
After discussing this with an AME, they agreed and I'm taking a few months to recover and recharge.
Bekol delay is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2022, 01:51
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: usa
Posts: 22
Still you see CAPTAINS being treated "so badly" asking all these questions on Yammer. Tagging the GMO and DFO. Asking about loops and COS18. Um I have an idea, why don't you grow a pair and either get booked off or resign! You are embarrassing yourselves!

Another question I have to ask is all the pilots "making noise" on these forums. Where are they from? Are they local or western pilots? There will never be unity in this airline because of the demographics and that is completely understandable.
Remember if you don't want to fly, need to go see family or need a mental health break - GET BOOKED OFF WORK! Or do us all a favour and resign.

A few captains are continually bashing on about COS18 and more money (ironically some are from the old guard at the AOA that wanted to push TA18 through with their housing intact), its NEVER going to be increased. RA55 is done! Move on or leave please.

At no point do I agree with the treatment of the pilots as a whole, but you have a choice in life. Stick it out, accept or you can leave (you are lucky you can leave this dump of a country)! the CHOICE is yours.

Keep safe everyone and safe landings.

​​​kenfoggo it would not surprise me at all. they will pay other pilots more than their own pilots.
herewego75 is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2022, 03:14
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 3.5 from TD
Age: 45
Posts: 1,040
Originally Posted by AtoBsafely View Post
I’m not sure what your point is Arnie, but to give you some context:

In the last three weeks, I have been allowed to go outside on 1.5+0.5 days for fresh air and exercise. I have been subject to 8 PCR tests, and 18 RAT tests.

In Hong Kong there have been 2 cases of local infection total as the result of a cabin crew member not following the rules. Due to misleading information, the people of Hong Kong believe it is my fault.

In response, my company will require me to work three weeks and quarantine for a week, all confined to a hotel room. In return I get a week off, and a few extra dollars. If, during those three weeks I test positive in Hong Kong I will be hospitalized regardless of symptoms for 2 to 4+ weeks until I’m negative. If it’s overseas, I need to rely on my personal health insurance as the company denies responsibility. If someone I worked with during those three weeks tests positive, I will be incarcerated in a quarantine facility for 21 days. The company will offer vacation days or unpaid leave.

This is what Hong Kong has become.
How quickly you through your fellow crew under the bus. They had the balls you lack to stand up to these ridiculous rules and live their life the way you clearly can’t.

“when injustice becomes the rule, disobedience becomes your duty”

Not enough people standing up has gotten us in this position. Stop acting like any of this is “mandatory”. Your election of closed loop flying was fully voluntary and now you are deluding yourself that you where “required by your company” to do them instead of facing the truth.

Look in the mirror and you will see who is to blame.
Sqwak7700 is offline  

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