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Enough is Enough

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Enough is Enough

Old 14th Nov 2021, 13:48
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Midfield Terminal
Posts: 4
Enough is Enough

Why are we all putting up with this? CX have cut our contracts permanently due to covid, while other carriers have done it on a temporary basis until things improve. Some other carriers have now started to reinstate pre-covid terms. DFO has already stated that there is currently no need to change current packages as it is apparently competitive. I don't know how far his head is up his back side, but I would guess it is substantial.

We are being subjected to inhumane and obviously unfair conditions at present; testing on arrival (totalling on average 4hrs before getting home after blocks on, previously 60 mins), testing during our days off, extended duty patterns, 0.25 credit on PX-ing, closed loop flying totalling 4 or 5 weeks away from home ( with some crew doing their 5th loop currently), exposure to covid and hence the possibility of being quarantined for 3 weeks at a government facility (while likely dragging my family to quarantine too) and not being able to get time off to see my other family who live abroad. These are just some of the issues being faced by us, the frontline crew.

I understand other departments have issues they face too, but I am certain, nobody else faces the issues and threats we face when we go to work, and even on the days and weeks after we have finished a flight.

The expectations of crew keeps rising, yet our package is barely scraping the bottom of the barrel. The dangers and threats we face are substantial; so how about giving us what we actually deserve. This ship is sinking. We know it and they know it (even DFO will know it when he pulls his head out of his backside).

"If I'm going down, I might as well go down fighting!"

Why are we not saying enough is enough? Why don't we just put down our tools until they make what we constantly do and face worthwhile/competitive? This ship is sinking anyway. If we go down, we might as well take these morons down with us!

AoA/Pilot group, what do you say?
Chrispy Kreme is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2021, 16:54
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 695
AoA Pilot group,🤣
Flex88 is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2021, 17:55
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 183
Even other airlines pay extra if you have a Hong Kong trip, due the complications here.
and as a visiting crew you donít have nowhere near the hardship we have on the Hong Kong base.

Oasis is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2021, 02:55
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Here and Everywhere
Posts: 185
Forget the AoA, they’re less of a force for change and more of a support group, The only people that care about pilots are the pilots themselves, everyone else in the company view us as disease riddled, smartly dressed monkeys.

The board is dictated by the two “observers” who make sure whatever the CHP says, the company does, at the expense at the pilots, cabin crew, managers and whoever stands in their way.

How long as a pilot group can we continue with this rhetoric? Each pilot has their own limits, a lot have reached it, a lot haven’t, but one thing is for certain, when new opportunities arise that gets us out of HK, regardless of how bad the pay is or otherwise, people are going to take it, even if it means a temporary stop gap for other opportunities.
Jnr380 is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2021, 03:40
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Oztrailia
Posts: 2,895
Geez I miss HK……..

not.
ACMS is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2021, 03:44
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: YVR
Posts: 16
Serious question as I and many others are interested, what jobs are on offer now? Atlas, EK, QR? The problem we face is cx have us by the balls as we cant get the time off to go and interview. If these airlines are serious about hiring from HKG they would be inundated by applications of suitable pilots if they came to visit HK for interviews/sims. I know they would have to Quarantine but easier than several hundred pilots trying to get leave or out of penny bay
ascalehero is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2021, 04:08
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: in denial
Posts: 277
Plenty of CX guys currently doing Atlas interviews from the comfort of their HK homes.
Veruka Salt is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2021, 04:20
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: HK
Posts: 11
ANO HK CAP448C Part IV Section 20 para (8)(a)

A person shall not be entitled to act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft registered in Hong Kong if he knows or reasonably suspects that his physical or mental condition renders him temporarily or permanently unfit to perform such functions or to act in such capacity.

As we are reminded every PC session, "Your License, your responsibility"

#Groundthefleet

Last edited by Bekol delay; 15th Nov 2021 at 05:30.
Bekol delay is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2021, 07:48
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 3.5 from TD
Age: 45
Posts: 1,030
AoA/Pilot group, what do you say?
First they came for the based Pilots, and I did not speak outó
Because I was not a based Pilot.

Then they came for the Dragonair pilots, and I did not speak outó
Because I was not a Dragonair pilot.

Then they came for close-contact pilots, and I did not speak outó
Because I was not a close contact Pilot .

Then they came for meóand there was no one left to speak for me.
Sqwak7700 is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2021, 08:02
  #10 (permalink)  
hyg
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 151
Chrispy Kreme

Ever consider something called resignation? If you have been in CX long enough and didn't blow your well-deserved salary away on luxury items, you should have built up a rather nice nest that should keep you afloat for a while... the based guys survived on half pay for a while until it becomes no pay, food for thought
hyg is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2021, 08:08
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Krug departure, Merlot transition
Posts: 601
Yes, God forbid we actually grow a spine and do anything as a group.
main_dog is online now  
Old 15th Nov 2021, 08:27
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: The Poorhouse
Posts: 11
This whole arrangement by the CHP/Gov is to protect peoples health, right? Thats the claim. What about MENTAL HEALTH?

The stress of this whole situation is unbelievably high for many people. The prospect being penalised and your family being penalised, for just doing your job is beyond the pale. Protecting your mental health is important. The company do not give a about you, HK not only doesn't give a about you - but the people here actively hate you for doing your job and treat you like a criminal. God forbid you contract COVID either here or at work (you will always only contract it at work whilst overseas obviously) to then have SCMP turn you into a pariah, splashing you and your families life story and present misery all over the internet as some kind of morbid entertainment.

So, even with the punitive policies and contracts designed to encourage going to work- put yourself and your family first. Protect your mental health and call in sick.
ZootBoot is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2021, 09:19
  #13 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Midfield Terminal
Posts: 4
hyg

What you have said is irrelevant to the post and certainly has nothing to do with based pilots on half pay and then eventually losing their base. Terrible situation for them all. I am talking about the situation in HK. They haven't been doing what we have been doing, being exposed and tested just to carry out our duty. Let's not compare apples with oranges. But I am sure when the based pilots that can return to HK, do return to HK, they will be in full agreement to the disgusting situation we all are being dragged through.

To answer your question, yes resignation has been considered, and still is being considered. However, the better option is to still take the cash until the limit for my personal circumstances has been reached.

This is about not being stepped on continuously, especially after the contract degradation and now, and most importantly, being forced into inhumane conditions if you like. Enough is enough.

You sound content. But when you open your eyes and see the situation for what it is, then feel free to join the real world and the conversation.

Also, no I haven't blown away my salary. But I do have a mortgage to pay, mouths to feed! (Might also have to keep up payments for my boat, cars and golf cart).
Chrispy Kreme is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2021, 10:06
  #14 (permalink)  
S22
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: HKG
Posts: 35
main_dog

Fat chance!
S22 is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2021, 10:23
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,749
I don't know why pilots put up with some of the crap we do.

I remember floating the question amongst colleagues at a previous airline; "why must we work on Christmas day?", to be met by blank looks and derision. "It's what you signed up for!", "yes, but why can't we change it?". A CC at the same airline told me that when her nine year old son saw her in uniform, early on Christmas day, he burst into tears, because once again, Mummy was not going to be home on Christmas day. Why do we accept it?

And the EASA flight time limitations that were more onerous than those we had before - just accepted with grumbling and a fatigue reporting system.........

Why don't we ever go on strike to maintain or improve our conditions? What's wrong with us? We work bloody hard as it is, while maintaining standards and professionalism at all hours of the day and night, and home study etc.

The OP should probably resign, but they will have to work out their notice, so that is not an immediate solution. But I would say to the OP and anyone else in a similar situation, just get out and do something else - life will go on, you will find another career.

Flying big jets was fantastic, but I think those days are mostly now behind us - commercial considerations have ruined what used to be a rewarding and worthwhile profession. The CEOs just want to make money, and are not interested in actually creating a happy airline, as long as the passengers keep coming, and passengers mostly only chose on seat price.

It is not worth risking your health or your marriage or family to keep on in a bad situation in the hope it will one day improve.
Uplinker is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2021, 10:49
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Oirland
Posts: 9
"To answer your question, yes resignation has been considered, and still is being considered. However, the better option is to still take the cash until the limit for my personal circumstances has been reached....."

Just what will it take before your limit for personal circumstances has been reached? They are locking you up in a fricking isolation prison for 21 days at a time. How much is your liberty worth? I am staggered at how people try to justify staying just a bit longer. 'Mouths to feed, mortgage to pay.......' etc etc ....Be honest, the company could ask for your left nut and you would still try to reason it as the best choice.
CovidRefugee is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2021, 14:12
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Australia
Age: 49
Posts: 105
CX Pilots are just like the frog boiling in the pot. I used to be one but only really understood that after I stoped working for them. It's hard to leave but there is life on the other side. If you think things are miraculously going to improve you are in la la land. Nothing has improved there for more than 20 years. As for pilots sticking together, that's just a silly pipe dream.
stevieboy330 is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2021, 14:42
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Matrix
Posts: 14
I was in KYIP on Friday(finishing Indoc) and K4 said they are open to the the idea of Zoom interviews for the CX guys stuck in HKG. They are working on setting something up. Better pay and lifestyle as compared to Atlas. A lot of CX guys already here. Contact Holly Rhodes and let her know.
buster57 is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2021, 14:43
  #19 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Midfield Terminal
Posts: 4
Everybody's threshold is different. Everybody's circumstances are different. I certainly would not give them my left nut if they asked for it. I am very attached to my left one. I was someone who just went with the flow and tried not to ruffle feathers for as long as I got paid and it didn't mess with my personal life too much. Things have changed. Am I moving the goal posts so I don't have to resign? Not anymore. I have been fortunate to not have been forced into quarantine for 21 days. Rosters have been altered by myself to suit myself, whether CC liked it or not. If 21 days quarantine happened, the story will change. I will update you!

For now, since resignation is such a real option for many, why not group together and shut this operation down for a day? HK will literally crap themselves when reality hits them that no toilet rolls and vaccines are not available for our 3rd jab.
Chrispy Kreme is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2021, 16:45
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 183
buster57

which outfit is this? Kalitta?
Oasis is offline  

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