Visa Denied
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Looks like the 330 fleet is also now in the firing line. Two FOs and one CN have received rejection letters from IMMD when renewing their six monthly extension. No more renewals. Non negotiable.
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Join Date: Mar 2021
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I don’t think the rejection of those relocating from a base is much of a shock. The numbers affected are far smaller than the SCMP suggest.
It’ll be more interesting to see how they go about visa renewals.
It’ll be more interesting to see how they go about visa renewals.
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Those 300 slots will be filled quickly. Take out a fair few from failed interviews and they will slot in by end of next year. Just from the FO/SO alone it should be a couple hundred gone. I believe UO is 125ish in the firing line. HKA will be reducing but at this stage I have no idea on their hiring plans.
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The downsizing is all planned to make this airline cheap and attractive for the likes of Air China or China southern to put a bid in to take over within a year...that was the game plan all along....
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So effectively another great management decision.
Pay large amount of redundancy to Dragon pilots, get forced by immigration to pay another large amount of redundancy to very senior cathay pilots on bases, pay more redundancy to pilots (again some very senior) on bases that can’t get work permits, rehire the dragon pilots (that have already received large payouts that are not repayable) possibly also pay large amount of redundancy to Hong Kong Cathay pilots that can’t get work permit and pay large amount in training and retraining. Fuel hedging, cargo cartel, Paris closure, where and when does it stop….when the shutter comes down?
Pay large amount of redundancy to Dragon pilots, get forced by immigration to pay another large amount of redundancy to very senior cathay pilots on bases, pay more redundancy to pilots (again some very senior) on bases that can’t get work permits, rehire the dragon pilots (that have already received large payouts that are not repayable) possibly also pay large amount of redundancy to Hong Kong Cathay pilots that can’t get work permit and pay large amount in training and retraining. Fuel hedging, cargo cartel, Paris closure, where and when does it stop….when the shutter comes down?
Join Date: Nov 2010
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I was told the original plan was to “cull” 30 percent of the crews from the bottom of the list from the 3 group airlines in March. Some bright spark came up with the idea to get rid of KA instead at some cost. If so essentially CX managed to engineer the visa crisis?
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They did all the wrong things and the beautiful poetic justice has been biting them in the a$$ ever since. Doing the right things would be to reduce crew count per the long standing contracts, by seniority (this would mean most cuts would be non-PR therfore negating the visa crisis these idiots didn't forsee), and paycuts on a temporary basis giving hope for a worthwhile job once again in the future.
Now they have to let go of all non-PR as if they had followed the contract and kept that one ounce of employer credibility they had. They have zero credibility as an employer now because of cancelling the contracts unilaterally and overnight without any discussion whatsoever and making this a "no contract" job permanently.
They also have to raise the payscales and the pay structure back to something resembling what it was before (more money and yearly increments) once business returns or else no pilots would come even on a temporary basis (not enough and the quality it takes to sustain operatio). The 300 or so local/PR existing in hk would not be more than a drop in the bucket. They will need to hire from outside shortly after business starts ro return. They could have just announced the paycuts as temporary until then and keep some credibility. Now they'll have to raise the pay and it won't help their zero credibility. This means whoever comes will come with the intent of staying for a short while. The cost of constant new hire training will kill them. Good luck with hiring mainland Chinese pilots to fly cathay. Not many Hong kongers will fly on those planes for obvious reasons.
Same shkuld have been done with dragon.. Not dissolving the entire operation overnight. All the millions invested to buy and upgrade and integrate dragon was flushed down the toilet including the routes which cathay will never regain besides a token few.
If they had done the right things, they would end up in the same place anyway. Layoffs based on seniority and temporary paycuts after at lease a presence of discussion.
Everything they were trying to get away with they have to do anyway and it cost them their credibility permanently.
The idiot who was the mastermind of this debacle deserves recognition for the unnessasary predicament cathay is in once again due to it's own management incompetence on a new scale.
ALL of what's happening now I was blurting out all the way to Anchorage the morning forced cos18 was announced. To annoyance of my dear fellow crewmembers. It's ALL coming true. This visa issue, intent to close all the bases and losing all those pilots, people quitting for garbage airlines now a better prospect than cathay, mass of stress leaves, bankruptcies, pilots with families packing and leaving for home with no job yet, etc.
They're losing people at an unsustainable rate and it's always the best ones who leave first affecting not only numbers but also quality of staff remaining. Not just pilots. The back office staff, IT etc are taking other jobs for less money and leaving for some time now. It's a main subject of weekly management meetings how critical the office staff situation has become. The pilots are taking jobs with less money they wouldn't even consider couple of years ago or just quitting with no job to move to. We all know several of those. There are 15+ year seniority pilots leaving to start at the bottom of sh!tshow airlines whom Ince cos18 beat cathay on pay and benefits. I'm one of them and i personally know at least 30 others having done the same.
What an accomplishment! Well done cathay... NOT!
Now they have to let go of all non-PR as if they had followed the contract and kept that one ounce of employer credibility they had. They have zero credibility as an employer now because of cancelling the contracts unilaterally and overnight without any discussion whatsoever and making this a "no contract" job permanently.
They also have to raise the payscales and the pay structure back to something resembling what it was before (more money and yearly increments) once business returns or else no pilots would come even on a temporary basis (not enough and the quality it takes to sustain operatio). The 300 or so local/PR existing in hk would not be more than a drop in the bucket. They will need to hire from outside shortly after business starts ro return. They could have just announced the paycuts as temporary until then and keep some credibility. Now they'll have to raise the pay and it won't help their zero credibility. This means whoever comes will come with the intent of staying for a short while. The cost of constant new hire training will kill them. Good luck with hiring mainland Chinese pilots to fly cathay. Not many Hong kongers will fly on those planes for obvious reasons.
Same shkuld have been done with dragon.. Not dissolving the entire operation overnight. All the millions invested to buy and upgrade and integrate dragon was flushed down the toilet including the routes which cathay will never regain besides a token few.
If they had done the right things, they would end up in the same place anyway. Layoffs based on seniority and temporary paycuts after at lease a presence of discussion.
Everything they were trying to get away with they have to do anyway and it cost them their credibility permanently.
The idiot who was the mastermind of this debacle deserves recognition for the unnessasary predicament cathay is in once again due to it's own management incompetence on a new scale.
ALL of what's happening now I was blurting out all the way to Anchorage the morning forced cos18 was announced. To annoyance of my dear fellow crewmembers. It's ALL coming true. This visa issue, intent to close all the bases and losing all those pilots, people quitting for garbage airlines now a better prospect than cathay, mass of stress leaves, bankruptcies, pilots with families packing and leaving for home with no job yet, etc.
They're losing people at an unsustainable rate and it's always the best ones who leave first affecting not only numbers but also quality of staff remaining. Not just pilots. The back office staff, IT etc are taking other jobs for less money and leaving for some time now. It's a main subject of weekly management meetings how critical the office staff situation has become. The pilots are taking jobs with less money they wouldn't even consider couple of years ago or just quitting with no job to move to. We all know several of those. There are 15+ year seniority pilots leaving to start at the bottom of sh!tshow airlines whom Ince cos18 beat cathay on pay and benefits. I'm one of them and i personally know at least 30 others having done the same.
What an accomplishment! Well done cathay... NOT!
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Staticport
As far as I know, no redundancy to date has been on POS18 pay, voluntary or compulsory. On top of that, court cases pending in Europe which may amount to significantly more than a redundancy payment, I believe the Canadians that didn't get a work permit will also be paid a significant sum greater than the contracted redundancy, courtesy of a judges decision (I stand to be corrected if the later is incorrect), and I believe the Kiwis also benefited by an amount greater than the contracted redundancy.
As far as I know, no redundancy to date has been on POS18 pay, voluntary or compulsory. On top of that, court cases pending in Europe which may amount to significantly more than a redundancy payment, I believe the Canadians that didn't get a work permit will also be paid a significant sum greater than the contracted redundancy, courtesy of a judges decision (I stand to be corrected if the later is incorrect), and I believe the Kiwis also benefited by an amount greater than the contracted redundancy.
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852, you are indeed correct, although I don’t believe the company actually paid them redundancy. I believe they had there contract cancelled within the probationary period so that the company technically didn’t have to pay them redundancy and they were given an exgratia payment, because the company really cares.
I might also add, that if LIFO and LOFI had been used they may well have been re-employed by now or at least be very close.
I might also add, that if LIFO and LOFI had been used they may well have been re-employed by now or at least be very close.
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Whatever one thinks of seniority based systems they are just that a system. It seems like CX always wants to reinvent the wheel to suit themselves and are surprised when said wheel comes off!
Join Date: May 2003
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And just to add to the fun, all the 55 year old PR holders will be eligible for a job before sponsored visa holders, assuming they were even interested.
lol
lol
VforVENDETTA
Very senior KA Flight Op's Managers were telling people mid last year that visa issues were complicating redundancy contingencies. Everyone was very aware of the issue at a senior level and they took a punt. Like they have often done.
Very senior KA Flight Op's Managers were telling people mid last year that visa issues were complicating redundancy contingencies. Everyone was very aware of the issue at a senior level and they took a punt. Like they have often done.
