Visa Denied
Joined: Jul 2010
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,780
Likes: 279
From: Asia
Rumors are that something similar will happen in Singapore, with the foreign pilots who were laid off in the big cull 12 months ago taking second place to unemployed and underemployed locals when hiring resumes.
Quite a few Singaporean pilots lost their overseas jobs and are back home twiddling their thumbs, in addition to SQ A380 drivers whose fleet had a 30% chop in aircraft numbers.
I wouldn't be surprised if every airline on the 9V register had to advertise locally and show that no suitable candidates were available before an employment visa could be issued to a foreigner.
Quite a few Singaporean pilots lost their overseas jobs and are back home twiddling their thumbs, in addition to SQ A380 drivers whose fleet had a 30% chop in aircraft numbers.
I wouldn't be surprised if every airline on the 9V register had to advertise locally and show that no suitable candidates were available before an employment visa could be issued to a foreigner.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 405
Likes: 3
From: The Cesspit
No government/management conspiracy here. Just good old fashioned incompetence by individuals well out of their depth. Have a look at the list of changing stories and arguments.
* Management arguing that work visa holder renewals for foreigners are necessary for the future of the company.
* Immigration Department initially disagreeing then ultimately agreeing with this argument.
* Management arguing that due to reduced workload there is no necessity for Hong Kong citizens and permanent residents to remain in the company beyond an arbitrary age.
* Forcefully “retired” Hong Kong citizens informing the immigration department of their availability to the Hong Kong aviation community.
* Management hiring pilots they don’t require to satisfy an Immigration Department requirement.
* Immigration department not seeing a reduction in locals who are qualified to perform the work due to management setting up
a revolving door by putting local pilots involuntarily back into the community.
* Management arguing that previously based crew should be issued with work visas as a necessity for the future of the company.
* Immigration Department rejecting that argument despite a work visa renewal having to meet the same criteria as a work visa initial issue. (Somehow the ID argue that a P1 rated captain can be readily replaced within the Hong Kong community but a P2X rated SO can’t be).
If anyone can see a conspiracy here by PEK/HK/CX/Swire then you’ve more imagination than me. I just see a continuation of decades of incompetence supported by differing stories depending on who’s arguing what to whom.
* Management arguing that work visa holder renewals for foreigners are necessary for the future of the company.
* Immigration Department initially disagreeing then ultimately agreeing with this argument.
* Management arguing that due to reduced workload there is no necessity for Hong Kong citizens and permanent residents to remain in the company beyond an arbitrary age.
* Forcefully “retired” Hong Kong citizens informing the immigration department of their availability to the Hong Kong aviation community.
* Management hiring pilots they don’t require to satisfy an Immigration Department requirement.
* Immigration department not seeing a reduction in locals who are qualified to perform the work due to management setting up
a revolving door by putting local pilots involuntarily back into the community.
* Management arguing that previously based crew should be issued with work visas as a necessity for the future of the company.
* Immigration Department rejecting that argument despite a work visa renewal having to meet the same criteria as a work visa initial issue. (Somehow the ID argue that a P1 rated captain can be readily replaced within the Hong Kong community but a P2X rated SO can’t be).
If anyone can see a conspiracy here by PEK/HK/CX/Swire then you’ve more imagination than me. I just see a continuation of decades of incompetence supported by differing stories depending on who’s arguing what to whom.
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
From: The Back of Beyond
Indeed PW.
The sheer incompetence of Cathay management, and utter arrogance, is something for the aviation history books. They are complete criminal buffoons and we all hope they rot in hell. They get away with it here, and that's why London ships them over for a bit of a leg stretch.
Best to just knock it on the head and avoid the place.
There will be plenty of clowns and misfits who pitch up thinking the numbers look good, live with a family of 4 in a miserable shoe box, and good luck to them.
But there is a reason CX has avoided foolish applicants in the past, and yes, fools cause accidents, but the management don't care as they're on a revolving door policy, and the airline has got insurance (for now).
My prediction - CX is aviation history in 2 or so years.
The sheer incompetence of Cathay management, and utter arrogance, is something for the aviation history books. They are complete criminal buffoons and we all hope they rot in hell. They get away with it here, and that's why London ships them over for a bit of a leg stretch.
Best to just knock it on the head and avoid the place.
There will be plenty of clowns and misfits who pitch up thinking the numbers look good, live with a family of 4 in a miserable shoe box, and good luck to them.
But there is a reason CX has avoided foolish applicants in the past, and yes, fools cause accidents, but the management don't care as they're on a revolving door policy, and the airline has got insurance (for now).
My prediction - CX is aviation history in 2 or so years.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
From: Asia
I would agree but I think 2 years is optimistic. The powers up north are playing the slow game but the writing is on the wall, good luck to all of you. A bit of short term pain but ultimately most will look back as the day they left as a blessing.
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 504
Likes: 1
From: one country, one system
All wrong.
In 2-3 years HKIA will have three runways and booming. The aviation market in Asia and China will continue to outgrow all other markets for as long as we live.
Hong Kong will be the financial centre of the greater bay area with 70 million people. It will still be the regional HQ of thousands of international companies and attracting hordes of expats from all over the world.
In 2035 the Greater Bay Area will be the biggest metropoly in the world, united with 8 other cities, offering the entire spectrum from production, design, finance and innovation within a 50 min train ride.
Cathay and Hong Kong will have a great future, with or without us, owned by Swire or China or both.
This is just the beginning. This is Asia's century.
In 2-3 years HKIA will have three runways and booming. The aviation market in Asia and China will continue to outgrow all other markets for as long as we live.
Hong Kong will be the financial centre of the greater bay area with 70 million people. It will still be the regional HQ of thousands of international companies and attracting hordes of expats from all over the world.
In 2035 the Greater Bay Area will be the biggest metropoly in the world, united with 8 other cities, offering the entire spectrum from production, design, finance and innovation within a 50 min train ride.
Cathay and Hong Kong will have a great future, with or without us, owned by Swire or China or both.
This is just the beginning. This is Asia's century.
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 449
Likes: 1
From: Hong Kong
Cathay and Hong Kong will have a great future, with or without us, owned by Swire or China or both.
The plan all along is to shut down the White Man's airline.
Reverse the situation and have a Chinese airline with a HQ in London and calling themselves UK's airline. Can that work?
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 405
Likes: 3
From: The Cesspit
CodyBlade
Facts help.
Beijing owns more CPA shares than London.
All of the company directors are Hong Kong residents except the 3 who are based in Beijing.
The airline’s headquarters are in Hong Kong.
The transport department has awarded the airline all the routes it bid for.
The Hong Kong government has used 27 billion dollars of taxpayer money to prop up a company that is only worth 40 billion.
The Hong Kong immigration department continues to renew work visas for foreign pilots.
The airline continues to pay those foreigners using taxpayer money.
The airline’s future is bleak but that’s due to a combination of mismanagement and circumstances. It was bleak long before COVID was ever heard of.
I appreciate its comforting for control freak pilots to believe they are the victims of a sinister plot rather than just being random small time participants in a very random world. If it helps you to sleep easier believing you’re the victim of competence then don’t let me stop you. It’s just I believe the opposite.
Facts help.
Beijing owns more CPA shares than London.
All of the company directors are Hong Kong residents except the 3 who are based in Beijing.
The airline’s headquarters are in Hong Kong.
The transport department has awarded the airline all the routes it bid for.
The Hong Kong government has used 27 billion dollars of taxpayer money to prop up a company that is only worth 40 billion.
The Hong Kong immigration department continues to renew work visas for foreign pilots.
The airline continues to pay those foreigners using taxpayer money.
The airline’s future is bleak but that’s due to a combination of mismanagement and circumstances. It was bleak long before COVID was ever heard of.
I appreciate its comforting for control freak pilots to believe they are the victims of a sinister plot rather than just being random small time participants in a very random world. If it helps you to sleep easier believing you’re the victim of competence then don’t let me stop you. It’s just I believe the opposite.
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 504
Likes: 1
From: one country, one system
Where in my post does it say I love the place? Nothing could be further from the truth.
I am just not so conceited to believe my personal destiny makes any difference.
Just because we are not part of that future doesn't mean there isn't a future for the city and the locals.
There is no conspiracy against "the white man" or any other such phantasy, neither are there any safety issues, all that talk is just borne out of frustration. The market conditions have changed, that is all.
You guys will see, this place is and will be right in the centre of Asian's growth. It will strive, like it or not.
And Flying Clog, the only difference for you will be instead of flying the Chinese exports to the rest of the world, in the future you will deliver them by road. That and about 100k a year.
I am just not so conceited to believe my personal destiny makes any difference.
Just because we are not part of that future doesn't mean there isn't a future for the city and the locals.
There is no conspiracy against "the white man" or any other such phantasy, neither are there any safety issues, all that talk is just borne out of frustration. The market conditions have changed, that is all.
You guys will see, this place is and will be right in the centre of Asian's growth. It will strive, like it or not.
And Flying Clog, the only difference for you will be instead of flying the Chinese exports to the rest of the world, in the future you will deliver them by road. That and about 100k a year.
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 24th September 2021 at 08:34.
Eidolon
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,244
Likes: 62
From: Some hole
Just imagine what would happen if places like Australia, U.K., US, Canada, and Europe denied business/study visas for future cadets to train.
Sure we will issue a business/student visas for unqualified cadets after those displaced qualified people have been issued work permits and compensation.
Sure we will issue a business/student visas for unqualified cadets after those displaced qualified people have been issued work permits and compensation.
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 400
Likes: 3
From: Wan Chai
Memorylapse
I need some of that Kool-aid. Maybe my attitude will get better. The visa denials are not going to affect anything short term. It'll just remove some of the 2016/2018 iCadets and DEFO's from the gene pool. If or when any bounce back happens these are the same people they will be able to pluck off the street in Downtown South East Asia. Or they can just go on Instagram... Maybe find a up an coming SO to join the two on the 74 for the clout....
I need some of that Kool-aid. Maybe my attitude will get better. The visa denials are not going to affect anything short term. It'll just remove some of the 2016/2018 iCadets and DEFO's from the gene pool. If or when any bounce back happens these are the same people they will be able to pluck off the street in Downtown South East Asia. Or they can just go on Instagram... Maybe find a up an coming SO to join the two on the 74 for the clout....
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
From: The Back of Beyond
Indeed, I'll have some of the Kool-Aid STW seems to be knocking back.
On second thought, no, I think I'll get the hell out of it before HKG implodes. Back to civilisation for me.
On second thought, no, I think I'll get the hell out of it before HKG implodes. Back to civilisation for me.
Last edited by Flying Clog; 25th September 2021 at 05:28.
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
From: here
I'm with STW. The airline which occupys the kitty city of the future will once again prosper, but not until Swire have packed their bags. With mainland management, the gweilo pilots will be pushed out, replaced by cadets from a significantly larger school in Aus, and Chinese ex-military pilots.
Sorry for those wanting to return to HK with no visa, but I think they'll look back on it as a good time to depart (and receive a payout).
Will there be any US base to close? Surely you're all leaving anyway, or are you waiting for a redundancy payout?
Sorry for those wanting to return to HK with no visa, but I think they'll look back on it as a good time to depart (and receive a payout).
Will there be any US base to close? Surely you're all leaving anyway, or are you waiting for a redundancy payout?