Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Visa Denied

Old 23rd Sep 2021, 04:56
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: lagos
Posts: 876
When can you go back to old Contract ? After Visa problem solved ?
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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 05:07
  #22 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 1,376
Rumors are that something similar will happen in Singapore, with the foreign pilots who were laid off in the big cull 12 months ago taking second place to unemployed and underemployed locals when hiring resumes.

Quite a few Singaporean pilots lost their overseas jobs and are back home twiddling their thumbs, in addition to SQ A380 drivers whose fleet had a 30% chop in aircraft numbers.

I wouldn't be surprised if every airline on the 9V register had to advertise locally and show that no suitable candidates were available before an employment visa could be issued to a foreigner.

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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 06:46
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Lonely planet
Posts: 61
Which is normal in any country, including yours. If there are sufficient locals to fill the spot, why the necessity to hire expats?
Oddball77 is online now  
Old 23rd Sep 2021, 13:19
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
Posts: 355
No government/management conspiracy here. Just good old fashioned incompetence by individuals well out of their depth. Have a look at the list of changing stories and arguments.

* Management arguing that work visa holder renewals for foreigners are necessary for the future of the company.
* Immigration Department initially disagreeing then ultimately agreeing with this argument.
* Management arguing that due to reduced workload there is no necessity for Hong Kong citizens and permanent residents to remain in the company beyond an arbitrary age.
* Forcefully “retired” Hong Kong citizens informing the immigration department of their availability to the Hong Kong aviation community.
* Management hiring pilots they don’t require to satisfy an Immigration Department requirement.
* Immigration department not seeing a reduction in locals who are qualified to perform the work due to management setting up
a revolving door by putting local pilots involuntarily back into the community.
* Management arguing that previously based crew should be issued with work visas as a necessity for the future of the company.
* Immigration Department rejecting that argument despite a work visa renewal having to meet the same criteria as a work visa initial issue. (Somehow the ID argue that a P1 rated captain can be readily replaced within the Hong Kong community but a P2X rated SO can’t be).

If anyone can see a conspiracy here by PEK/HK/CX/Swire then you’ve more imagination than me. I just see a continuation of decades of incompetence supported by differing stories depending on who’s arguing what to whom.
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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 13:37
  #25 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Sydney
Posts: 47
Whoever is last to leave, please remember to turn off all the lights. It shouldn't be long now.......
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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 18:33
  #26 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Back of Beyond
Posts: 93
Indeed PW.

The sheer incompetence of Cathay management, and utter arrogance, is something for the aviation history books. They are complete criminal buffoons and we all hope they rot in hell. They get away with it here, and that's why London ships them over for a bit of a leg stretch.

Best to just knock it on the head and avoid the place.

There will be plenty of clowns and misfits who pitch up thinking the numbers look good, live with a family of 4 in a miserable shoe box, and good luck to them.

But there is a reason CX has avoided foolish applicants in the past, and yes, fools cause accidents, but the management don't care as they're on a revolving door policy, and the airline has got insurance (for now).

My prediction - CX is aviation history in 2 or so years.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 01:11
  #27 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Asia
Posts: 146
I would agree but I think 2 years is optimistic. The powers up north are playing the slow game but the writing is on the wall, good luck to all of you. A bit of short term pain but ultimately most will look back as the day they left as a blessing.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 01:21
  #28 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 54
Posts: 398
All wrong.

In 2-3 years HKIA will have three runways and booming. The aviation market in Asia and China will continue to outgrow all other markets for as long as we live.

Hong Kong will be the financial centre of the greater bay area with 70 million people. It will still be the regional HQ of thousands of international companies and attracting hordes of expats from all over the world.

In 2035 the Greater Bay Area will be the biggest metropoly in the world, united with 8 other cities, offering the entire spectrum from production, design, finance and innovation within a 50 min train ride.

Cathay and Hong Kong will have a great future, with or without us, owned by Swire or China or both.

This is just the beginning. This is Asia's century.
Sam Ting Wong is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2021, 03:12
  #29 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 731
Cadets who have known nothing but CX say the strangest things
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 03:39
  #30 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 445
Cathay and Hong Kong will have a great future, with or without us, owned by Swire or China or both.
You just don't get it do you.

The plan all along is to shut down the White Man's airline.

Reverse the situation and have a Chinese airline with a HQ in London and calling themselves UK's airline. Can that work?

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Old 24th Sep 2021, 05:39
  #31 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 66
Sam Ting Wong

Oh my!! 😂
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 05:47
  #32 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 1
You have to hand it to STW - it's dead on topic.
Everyone whose visa is denied must be asking themselves why they applied in the first place.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 06:23
  #33 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
Posts: 355

Facts help.

Beijing owns more CPA shares than London.
All of the company directors are Hong Kong residents except the 3 who are based in Beijing.
The airline’s headquarters are in Hong Kong.
The transport department has awarded the airline all the routes it bid for.
The Hong Kong government has used 27 billion dollars of taxpayer money to prop up a company that is only worth 40 billion.
The Hong Kong immigration department continues to renew work visas for foreign pilots.
The airline continues to pay those foreigners using taxpayer money.

The airline’s future is bleak but that’s due to a combination of mismanagement and circumstances. It was bleak long before COVID was ever heard of.
I appreciate its comforting for control freak pilots to believe they are the victims of a sinister plot rather than just being random small time participants in a very random world. If it helps you to sleep easier believing you’re the victim of competence then don’t let me stop you. It’s just I believe the opposite.
Progress Wanchai is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2021, 06:56
  #34 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Back of Beyond
Posts: 93
That's hilarious STW! I spat out my coffee everywhere and need to get another one now, thanks!

Good luck to you, and your beloved cesspit.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 07:49
  #35 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 54
Posts: 398
Where in my post does it say I love the place? Nothing could be further from the truth.

I am just not so conceited to believe my personal destiny makes any difference.

Just because we are not part of that future doesn't mean there isn't a future for the city and the locals.

There is no conspiracy against "the white man" or any other such phantasy, neither are there any safety issues, all that talk is just borne out of frustration. The market conditions have changed, that is all.

You guys will see, this place is and will be right in the centre of Asian's growth. It will strive, like it or not.

And Flying Clog, the only difference for you will be instead of flying the Chinese exports to the rest of the world, in the future you will deliver them by road. That and about 100k a year.

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 24th Sep 2021 at 08:34.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 08:42
  #36 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Australia
Age: 50
Posts: 108
I'm going to miss those fresh chicken & avocado sandwiches at CX city and that great coffee next to Dakota's, always served with a big smile !
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 09:43
  #37 (permalink)  

Join Date: May 2001
Location: Some hole
Posts: 2,111
Just imagine what would happen if places like Australia, U.K., US, Canada, and Europe denied business/study visas for future cadets to train.

Sure we will issue a business/student visas for unqualified cadets after those displaced qualified people have been issued work permits and compensation.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 09:56
  #38 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 315

I need some of that Kool-aid. Maybe my attitude will get better. The visa denials are not going to affect anything short term. It'll just remove some of the 2016/2018 iCadets and DEFO's from the gene pool. If or when any bounce back happens these are the same people they will be able to pluck off the street in Downtown South East Asia. Or they can just go on Instagram... Maybe find a up an coming SO to join the two on the 74 for the clout....
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 17:25
  #39 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Back of Beyond
Posts: 93
Indeed, I'll have some of the Kool-Aid STW seems to be knocking back.

On second thought, no, I think I'll get the hell out of it before HKG implodes. Back to civilisation for me.

Last edited by Flying Clog; 25th Sep 2021 at 05:28.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 21:43
  #40 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: here
Posts: 189
I'm with STW. The airline which occupys the kitty city of the future will once again prosper, but not until Swire have packed their bags. With mainland management, the gweilo pilots will be pushed out, replaced by cadets from a significantly larger school in Aus, and Chinese ex-military pilots.
Sorry for those wanting to return to HK with no visa, but I think they'll look back on it as a good time to depart (and receive a payout).
Will there be any US base to close? Surely you're all leaving anyway, or are you waiting for a redundancy payout?
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