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13th Month

Old 14th Nov 2018, 11:32
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 47
Oh c’mon you can do better than that. Try for something a bit more believable🤪
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 12:51
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: here
Posts: 25
You should’ve asked what’s happening to our RPs, ARAPA and HKPA..
I mean, since you’re there at the branch.
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 13:04
  #83 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 515
Originally Posted by Staggers View Post
Oh c’mon you can do better than that. Try for something a bit more believable🤪
Do me a favour Staggers, next time you are near your local HSBC go in and ask the same question.
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 13:05
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 515
Originally Posted by Kid Dynamite View Post
You should’ve asked what’s happening to our RPs, ARAPA and HKPA..
I mean, since you’re there at the branch.
Well I'd stand a better chance of getting an answer than if I waited for an announcement from our union.
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 14:57
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: here
Posts: 25
Can’t argue with you unitedabx...it’s a shambles!
Real shame, we’re only the membership FFS.
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Old 15th Nov 2018, 03:39
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
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Originally Posted by Kid Dynamite View Post
Can’t argue with you unitedabx...it’s a shambles!
Real shame, we’re only the membership FFS.
Respect to your opinion KD
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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 17:41
  #87 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: sdfsd
Age: 81
Posts: 24
13th month should be no problem, given how CX management can squander money on fuel hedging contracts and how the very people who were responsible for overseeing the company then are still in charge, in fact have been promoted.

A reminder of the hedging losses of the last 4.5 years (source: annual business reports)
2014: HKD 911.000.000
2015: HKD 8.474.000.000
2016: HKD 8.456.000.000
2017: HKD 6.377.000.000
2018: HKD 653.000.000 (only first 6 months)

Total 2014-2018: 23.960.000.000 USD 3.064.000.000
Yep that’s on average about +USD 1.8 Million per day for 4.5 years on fuel hedging losses alone !

Total # Stuff by end of 2017: 28.000
Had CX management not gone down to the fuel hedging casino they would be no worse off if they had paid every staff member a bonus of HKD 855.000 (USD 109.000).

13th month is peanuts compared. …… if you can afford to gamble the house away, you can afford to take the wife for dinner !
I am sure there is logic somewhere in the above, even though I cannot really see it myself. It is however the same skewed logic used in the 2018 interim report where CX states that they had a “79.8% decrease in fuel hedging losses” …… well done chaps, we are proud of you !
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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 18:21
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: somewhere
Posts: 239
There should be no problem with granting the discretionary 13th Month. The airline is making a HUGE daily operating profit on its airline operations, which is what OUR efforts contribute towards. If there is any downside it is because of hedging losses , which is what Management has contributed toward. Not my fault. Give me the money.
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Old 3rd Dec 2018, 23:42
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: www
Posts: 506
Well, if they don't pay us the 13th month, a large part of the reason will be due to how we failed to react to their decision to not pay us last year. If we had hit them hard with multiple thousands of individual actions in response, they would probably be too nervous to try it again this year. As most of us just whimpered and stamped our feet, I suspect it's likely they will at least consider they can get away with it again. I would strongly suggest that if they do cheat us again (particularly the Captains), you had better be prepared to show them that they have made a historic error of judgement. That will be the only way to ensure it's the last year they commit such a contemptible travesty.
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 02:52
  #90 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 13
Actually, if the same were to happen this year re the 13th month, we really do need to do more than "stamp feet".
If the same happened to our cabin crew (re no 13th month) they would take immediate action. It's been done before by the cabin crew. With excellent results!

Last edited by never ready; 4th Dec 2018 at 06:34.
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 04:42
  #91 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 751
Well, let's just see what happens. I certainly know what my reaction will be. And it will cost CX 3-4 times what the 13th month would have cost them.
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 11:46
  #92 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 49
Posts: 215
No body will do anything that will put them in the spotlight. Afterall... Management would want a reason to terminate those expensive b scalers on expat packages.... Win win cost reduction.... Plus the sacking Of atleast an honorary few, will make the rest submit like puppy dogs to the master! They can't afford to upset the cabin crew or Frontline staff... Because it has a direct impact on the product and service..... But the cockpit crew will bitch and complain behind their locked door safely away from public view... Keeping OTP...... But the public think we are all richly overpaid, under worked princesses any way..... so even if you did bitch nobody actually cares.....So in summary, contrary to what people bleet on this forum or behind the locked door..... NOBODY WILL DO ANYTHING THAT MAKES THEM STAND OUT.... Fact!
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 12:05
  #93 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 751
Ok. I guess me taking a month off “unfit” this past year was “doing nothing “. Got it. (Oh, and never mind ensuring that i cost the operation many $thousands more every month i operated. Quite happy to repeat next year).
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 13:07
  #94 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 47
Why not wait and see.
All this angst over something that hasn’t yet happened
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 13:18
  #95 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 49
Posts: 215
Exactly my point mole..... You did nothing that made you stand out. You just resort to cowardly guerilla tactics of sick leave ( within the policy). Increase costs only where you can cover your tracks.....You like the rest of the group are so weak it's pathetic. Nobody will make a public stand and be professional for once. Instead it's operation human shield and hide behind others and encourage others to be the public face, while you declare war outside of the sight of the powers that be..... So like I said, nobody will do anything that puts them in the direct spotlight.....least of all the union and even to a lesser extent the president of said union...... TOTAL......J O K E. Everyone should resign from the union. Afterall, instead of having all packages lumped together the company would have to deal with each contact separately.... Total headache.... We are doing them a favor by having a union and even better we sacrifice our salary to give them the convenience of only dealing collectively with one group that in turn delivers a distinct advantage of allowing them play one group off against another to achieve 51%. Watch hkpa increase and removal of training ban screw the b scale over.... And the b scale pay more subs!.... J o k e!
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Old 4th Dec 2018, 14:38
  #96 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 751
“Cowardly tacticts?” Really? I understand that you are working hand in hand with management. Noted. In the meantime , I emphasize that I will take off at least a month and then cost the company multiple thousands of $$$ every month for the rest of the year. But you go ahead and describe that as “cowardly “. I would suggest that our management are in fact the ones who are cowardly. Btw, your grammar and syntax suggest you need some remedial education.
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 05:33
  #97 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 52
Rat Management you really think the HKPA guys/gals are the ones that are going to vote it through?? For an HKPA offer lower then TA16? Think we need to look at who actually stands to benefit if it gets voted through.
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 06:14
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 170
Umm they wont negotiate individual contracts they will just lump us all together on the cheapest pice of crap and wheel it out with sign it.....do u even understand how a union works?
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 07:44
  #99 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Expensive Shoebox
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by Brokeidiot View Post
Rat Management you really think the HKPA guys/gals are the ones that are going to vote it through?? For an HKPA offer lower then TA16? Think we need to look at who actually stands to benefit if it gets voted through.
Of course they will vote yes. They are looking for an upgrade, hence they will vote yes to lift the ban and have a go at an overdue JFO course. Can't expect them not to look at the bigger picture.
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 13:08
  #100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: underground
Posts: 99
All this new pay deal tells us is that our association leaders didn’t have a pan ‘B’ should they be offered a sub standard lower deal. They are passing the buck to us. Or are unwilling to implement it.

Therefore there should be a vote in the first instance to decide whether this new sub standard pay deal should actually be put to a vote. A vote on whether to allow a vote on this lower offer, if anything, as that would be the truest democratic action to allow the pilot body to really speak out before any rash moves - all that needs to be said is it’s less or more than TA16. After all why allow our association to embarrass itself by allowing a sub standard deal to be presented to its members. If it’s to show goodwill to the company this is in contravention of its own CC policy.

As we all previously agreed TA16 was inadequate why on earth would we vote for something less? If the pay deal was inadequate surely we should be looking into the next affirmative action. Holding the CC, and TB until the company is in a position to offer us a better deal or something else? 3 years on why give up now?
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