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13th Month

Old 29th Oct 2018, 09:23
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 505
Originally Posted by kahaha View Post
KA seniority is not DOJ , but date of licence issue.
Redundancy list is predicated on DOJ.
Just so we are all on the same page .
One day.
Sorry KA but your travel seniority is DOJ and that is how CX will manage the conversion of seniority lists. This also applies to cabin crew remember so licence dates are irrelevant.
unitedabx is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2018, 09:26
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 505
Originally Posted by kahaha View Post
KA seniority is not DOJ , but date of licence issue.
Redundancy list is predicated on DOJ.
Just so we are all on the same page .
One day.
You must also reaslise that any merger will be orchastratedby CX not KA. Your managers are just drawing their salaries. The real decisons are being made by CX management. God help us all.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 11:56
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 296
Perhaps a motion for both union's is needed to get each union's ducks in a row, each based on DOJ.

That way the ducks won't be put in order by management which no doubt will cause a major clusterf#@k.
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Old 29th Oct 2018, 12:19
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: 1st Floor
Age: 29
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by Gnadenburg View Post

And do you really think an airline doesn't care about a high levels of absenteeism?
Or an aggrieved career captain cares about losing a month of duty pay when they are probably finding some mental health respite from a toxic work environment?
Toxic work environment, its relative. KA is toxic, multi sector china, never any respite. Just think of that, the same old, same old, every single day of your career. No long Haul. No fleet change (well mini bus to ancient bus) hardly qualifies.

And now integration, of sorts. But that will keep KA Captains from jumping over the precipice. A350 course in 2020? Very nice

Gandeburga, I usually enjoy your intuitive posts , but this time you are all of a ramble old chap. The DB marina woes getting to you?
Krone is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2018, 22:44
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: London
Posts: 7
Merger.......iffy


Merging of KA & CX, it isn’t going to happen! The company have sought economies of scale to the maximum possible (shared facilities in cx city, duplicated positions elimated and transferred to CX, more to come) A large sum of money was spent on the rebranding of KA to align it with CX as closely as possible to strengthen the group brand and allow the synergies mentioned above without a merger, for the specifc reason of wanting to avoid a merger, but bring the synergies and economies that would have come from one! (How Cathay)

Might be a nice thought for a 15+ year KA Skipper who might one day fly long haul (unlikely since CX don’t allow fleet changes) Or a 5-6 year CX FO dreaming of an early command on the narrow body regional operation, but it won’t happen as it doesn’t benefit management & the stakeholder!

Every year this comes up and every year nothing happens, look at COS18 and other pressing items (bases,fleet transfer,housing,RA55-65) if you want something to worry about!
LLLQNH is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2018, 06:28
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 38
Merging lists ain't going happen. It's a pipe dream of a small, but vocal, number of KA pilots. Here's a reality check.

There are 3 parties and here's their motivations.

1. For 500 KA pilots this is good news. Lose very little, gain access to ULH rosters and Bases (ha..ha..remember those?)
2. For 2500 CX pilots it's very bad news. The FO looking for a quick upgrade is a bit of a "unicorn". Remember, they are far from a majority and if they wanted the quick upgrade, they would have joined KA in the first place!!
3. The company risks litigation (particularly from the foreign unions under first world labour laws) and a stouch from CX pilots, particularly the Captains, Senior FOs and SOs. (The majority). The company does gain flexibility of crewing particularly on the 330.

As always, the company will be the driver in any decision making process, not the unions. Rather than risk a fight, the company can simply offer CX pilots secondment to KA. The DPA might try and oppose, but they didn't oppose training CX JFOs, so I can't see them opposing secondments. The company get what they want, with none of the associated risks.

Sorry to p!ss on your cornflakes, but that's the reality as I see it.
Liam Gallagher is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2018, 10:49
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 505
Originally Posted by Liam Gallagher View Post
Merging lists ain't going happen. It's a pipe dream of a small, but vocal, number of KA pilots. Here's a reality check.

There are 3 parties and here's their motivations.

1. For 500 KA pilots this is good news. Lose very little, gain access to ULH rosters and Bases (ha..ha..remember those?)
2. For 2500 CX pilots it's very bad news. The FO looking for a quick upgrade is a bit of a "unicorn". Remember, they are far from a majority and if they wanted the quick upgrade, they would have joined KA in the first place!!
3. The company risks litigation (particularly from the foreign unions under first world labour laws) and a stouch from CX pilots, particularly the Captains, Senior FOs and SOs. (The majority). The company does gain flexibility of crewing particularly on the 330.

As always, the company will be the driver in any decision making process, not the unions. Rather than risk a fight, the company can simply offer CX pilots secondment to KA. The DPA might try and oppose, but they didn't oppose training CX JFOs, so I can't see them opposing secondments. The company get what they want, with none of the associated risks.

Sorry to p!ss on your cornflakes, but that's the reality as I see it.
It was item 1 in the last CX/KA Managers meeting last week. 10am start Room 102B South Tower
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Old 30th Oct 2018, 12:11
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: London
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by unitedabx View Post
It was item 1 in the last CX/KA Managers meeting last week. 10am start Room 102B South Tower
HAHAHA trying to get the guys blood pressure up!
LLLQNH is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2018, 12:18
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 20
Smile

Originally Posted by Liam Gallagher View Post
Merging lists ain't going happen. It's a pipe dream of a small, but vocal, number of KA pilots. Here's a reality check.

There are 3 parties and here's their motivations.

1. For 500 KA pilots this is good news. Lose very little, gain access to ULH rosters and Bases (ha..ha..remember those?)
2. For 2500 CX pilots it's very bad news. The FO looking for a quick upgrade is a bit of a "unicorn". Remember, they are far from a majority and if they wanted the quick upgrade, they would have joined KA in the first place!!
3. The company risks litigation (particularly from the foreign unions under first world labour laws) and a stouch from CX pilots, particularly the Captains, Senior FOs and SOs. (The majority). The company does gain flexibility of crewing particularly on the 330.

As always, the company will be the driver in any decision making process, not the unions. Rather than risk a fight, the company can simply offer CX pilots secondment to KA. The DPA might try and oppose, but they didn't oppose training CX JFOs, so I can't see them opposing secondments. The company get what they want, with none of the associated risks.

Sorry to p!ss on your cornflakes, but that's the reality as I see it.
Don't worry Liam, you're not pissing on anybody's cornflakes. I don't know of a single KA pilot who wants to merge lists, it's not a pipe dream for anybody because nobody wants to see it happen.
MPPCAG is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2018, 15:06
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Eden Valley
Posts: 1,761
Hi Liam,

Please be right ! No integration with CX please.

Never heard the vocal KA minority you speak of ? No doubting they may be there, but they probably keep pretty quiet, as the majority of our pilots are beneficiaries of potentially rapid promotion at KA that would be thwarted by an integration.

CX secondments? We've already had one but the DPA sent him back.

With all due respect are you jumping at shadows? KA pilots have been called to vote on a training ban.
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Old 31st Oct 2018, 10:08
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Universe
Posts: 1
@Gnadenburg, Hope you're right, already talk about some pilots will still accept a training position at KA, (just as they still applied during the hiring ban) and (just like at CX in regards to the training ban) looking out for themselves ....disgraceful, would hope they would be put to shame, if the training ban gets voted through.
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Old 1st Nov 2018, 19:43
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: In Sin
Age: 49
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by ATM00 View Post
@Gnadenburg, Hope you're right, already talk about some pilots will still accept a training position at KA, (just as they still applied during the hiring ban) and (just like at CX in regards to the training ban) looking out for themselves ....disgraceful, would hope they would be put to shame, if the training ban gets voted through.
Training ban? Won’t happen. No appetite from the silent majority. It Will prevent upgrades, which is the heart n soul of KA’s current attraction to C scalers. A quick command paying big bucks.

Why would anyone in this position vote for this clap trap idea? Its hardly been a success at CX. Embarrassing.
TheGreenDragon is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2018, 01:20
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 324
So any word, is it going to be paid?
TurningFinalRWY36 is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2018, 11:37
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not where I want to be
Posts: 52
The word will be No. Half way through a made up Time To Win which is a contrived slogan to make up for the contrived losses of fuel hedging, what else could the word be apart from cannot. Let’s not be naive.
From a distance is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2018, 12:06
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: VHHH Ocean 2D
Posts: 908
13th month to be paid to employees up to and including Cabin Crew. Cathay rewards those with Balls and continues shafting those without , not to mention the fact that Cabin Crew need to be kept onside.

Cathay saw the backlash from Captains last year - the odd PPRuNe post by the usual suspects and a handful of Captains breaking the TB/ taking promotions.

Therefore expect a repeat this year.

betpump5 is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2018, 12:09
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: No where
Posts: 746
Couldn't agree more with the above comment. This management has no respect or value towards it's aircrew, and they seem to have a perverse desire to keep piling on. Frankly, I don't mind, as it gives me a legitimate excuse to take a month off during the year as and when I so see fit...as I did this year. Will do so again next. If they can pay our KA brethren, they can pay us. If not, then I simply look at it as another months holiday sometime in the coming year. Don't stress, just get even.
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Old 9th Nov 2018, 02:19
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 99
Profit, they only pay KA because it is in the contract. They’d love any excuse not to.
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Old 9th Nov 2018, 02:36
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 324
I still dont understand why people accept not being paid 13th month. By paying us monthly and not paying 13th month we are only getting paid for 48/52 weeks of the year
TurningFinalRWY36 is offline  
Old 9th Nov 2018, 03:12
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 505
Originally Posted by Air Profit View Post
Couldn't agree more with the above comment. This management has no respect or value towards it's aircrew, and they seem to have a perverse desire to keep piling on. Frankly, I don't mind, as it gives me a legitimate excuse to take a month off during the year as and when I so see fit...as I did this year. Will do so again next. If they can pay our KA brethren, they can pay us. If not, then I simply look at it as another months holiday sometime in the coming year. Don't stress, just get even.
So why don't ALL captains plan to take 31 days off next year. The rest will make up the lost 13th month in overtime. Simples.
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Old 9th Nov 2018, 03:31
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 324
will never happen, captains didnt get paid and you still have guys joining training
TurningFinalRWY36 is offline  

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